DFP: GT4 VS Enthusia (video)

[Mr Deap]

THOSE ARE DRIVING VIDEO STREAMING!!!
HAVE FUN LAUGHING AT ME!!

GT4

Enthusia

 

[NSX-R]

Very nicely done! Very nice... Just for the courage and determenation to make those awesome vids, you earned youself a trouphy! (where the heck is it?)

You can clearly see that DFP has tighter range on GT4, and wider range on EPR, which is more convincing. And GT4's snap-understeer is UNBELIEVABLY scary, and sliding is not predictable. EPR still has tamed version of GT4's snap-understeer, and sliding's as perdictable as my parent's attitude towards me racing (go figure!)

Great vid!

 

[Adam West]

That's cool. Uh, what is one to take away from seeing those two vids? What was your impression of the games in relation to the DFP?

 

[Mr Deap]

I feel that Enthusia doesn't oversteer enough, If you notice the accelerator, I'm in full throttle doing the drift. I've seen many drift tutorial video of Tsuchiya, but I never really saw him doing them full trottle except with the 86. Though the handling of the steering seems almost perfect.

In GT4 the control seem half realistic. The sense of speed & the way it brake is more fun. Though once you drift with a non tuned car, it just feel awkward. I tried the double braking to shift the weight & the car understeered after the high speed section, like if the car wasn't fast enough also the feint drift I tried on the second quarter of the track & weirdly the car still grip, lol!

As for the track, It's incredible how to 2 games made perfectly the track. If you view the 2 of them togheter, they're the same.

 

[GarouGT]

o,o those are some very impressive vids! the two tracks almost looks the same!! And yeah, like NSX-R said, the steering in gt4 is short. I can clearly see it I_I. i wish konami and pd join forces to make one h3ll of a racing game. imagine, super realistic graphics and control.

 

[NSX-R]

Actually, it would be Sony and konami... which is hard to see them cooroperation(Sp?)

 

[Wolfe]

The Gran Turismo games are developed by a company called Polyphony Digital. Sony just publishes the games.

 

[LaBounti]

PD is a first party developer, Sony is a lot more than just a publisher.

 

[Adam West]

Second party, to be exact. Sort of like Bizarre Creations and M$. PD aren't owned by Sony.

 

[NSX-R]

But the icon on the bottom right of the cover is Sony Entertainment... and EPR has Konami...

Guess konami is the maker AND the publisher then...

 

[Tortus]

I feel that Enthusia doesn't oversteer enough, If you notice the accelerator, I'm in full throttle doing the drift. I've seen many drift tutorial video of Tsuchiya, but I never really saw him doing them full trottle except with the 86. Though the handling of the steering seems almost perfect.

This was actually the very first thing I noticed, then I came here and complained about how difficult it is to get sideways.

Another problem is that you can't lightly tap the brakes while cornering to initiate drift. In Drift Bible, he performs braking drift by braking heavily, coming off and turning into the corner, then extremely lightly tapping the brakes to get oversteer, and then throttling on at about the apex or just before. I've watched the braking and throttle bars in Enthusia when I do braking drift and it's always at least 75% full. I don't think I could tap the brakes as lightly as you're meant to.

Having said all this, once you learn how to do it the game simulates drifting beautifully. The basic key is that in Enthusia you really have to push hard to get the back end out, and then use slightly different techniques to hold it out (eg come on throttle earlier, more throttle than real life etc)

Lastly, I'd just like to remind everyone that a lot of game reviewers complained that oversteer in RWDs was too easy to do in this game. It could be that Konami tuned it down a bit because it'd be impossible to control with the DS2 if it was that accurate.

 

[NSX-R]

Try MR2, every corner entry, the tail kicks out...

 

[Wolfe]

Well, I don't really agree with drifting being more difficult than it should be, but I won't argue against it, because critics of Enthusia always say that drifting is too easy, or that it's too hard to keep control of the RWD's.

As for brake drifting, what happens is you use the brakes to slow the car, shifting weight forward (and off of the drive wheels), while simultaneously using steering to enter the drift, and then prolong/stabilize the drift using the throttle and steering wheel.

You can't think about drifting (or pretty much any driving technique) as a "do this now, and then do that, and then do this." You have to think about the drift or technique as a whole, and understand the physics and idea behind it.

I don't even think about what I'm doing when I'm drifting; I just do it...

 

[Tortus]

Thanks for the advice guys, but I've learnt most of this just from practice, practice, practice. I was just talking about when I started, it wasn't as easy as to lose the tail as I thought it would be, but it is now.

Also, I'm not criticising Enthusia per se, because I think the drifting is absolutely fantastic. Unlike in <certain other games>, the drifting and grip in Enthusia go hand in hand, it's not like you have to setup your car for serious oversteer and learning how to control it just doesn't make sense. For this reason, I drift my Enthu S15 bone stock. It is such a great feeling knowing that a car that should be quite drift-ready in real life without modifications is the same in Enthusia.

Wolfe2x7, that sounded so much like Bruce Lee crap, lol, j/k. I know exactly what you mean - I couldn't describe how to drift in Enthusia to someone because it's just like you initiate it and then your subconscious takes over. You just know what will increase oversteer, what will cause understeer, and how to break back into "grip mode". I found the Lvl 18 challenges helped me understand how to listen to the DFP a bit better, and when I go back on a track now I can very consistently drift corners without understeer or black flags.

 

[Wolfe]

Thanks for the advice guys, but I've learnt most of this just from practice, practice, practice. I was just talking about when I started, it wasn't as easy as to lose the tail as I thought it would be, but it is now.

Like I said in my post above, most (ignorant) videogame reviewers and other people complained about how hard it was to keep the tail under control in Enthusia, so if you had a hard time, that's a good thing! 👍

Also, I'm not criticising Enthusia per se, because I think the drifting is absolutely fantastic. Unlike in <certain other games>, the drifting and grip in Enthusia go hand in hand, it's not like you have to setup your car for serious oversteer and learning how to control it just doesn't make sense. For this reason, I drift my Enthu S15 bone stock. It is such a great feeling knowing that a car that should be quite drift-ready in real life without modifications is the same in Enthusia.

Yeah...I find it so hilarious when people are defending GT4's realism -- pertaining to the topic of drifting -- and they go on and on about how "you have to equip your car with more realistic tires," or "you have to use the drift tires, the economy ones," and then they try to explain how your car has to be "set-up for drifting," etc. etc. etc. Total bull****.

It's depressing how many people base all of their automotive knowledge off of the GT series...why shouldn't they, seeing as how it has the "ultimate driving simulator" tag. So you've got people talking about wanting to get a "stage 2 weight reduction" for their (real-life) car, and thinking getting a car to drift is a long, arduous task, involving lots of expensive modifications and precise tuning...

Hell, my 100 hp, open-diff 318i will happily drift if the pavement's wet. Why shouldn't a 333hp, lsd-equipped M3 do the same in the dry?

Wolfe2x7, that sounded so much like Bruce Lee crap, lol, j/k. I know exactly what you mean - I couldn't describe how to drift in Enthusia to someone because it's just like you initiate it and then your subconscious takes over. You just know what will increase oversteer, what will cause understeer, and how to break back into "grip mode". I found the Lvl 18 challenges helped me understand how to listen to the DFP a bit better, and when I go back on a track now I can very consistently drift corners without understeer or black flags.

Hahaha, Bruce Lee crap? I hope I didn't sound like an elitist prick...

 

[rsmithdrift]

Yeah...I find it so hilarious when people are defending GT4's realism -- pertaining to the topic of drifting -- and they go on and on about how "you have to equip your car with more realistic tires," or "you have to use the drift tires, the economy ones," and then they try to explain how your car has to be "set-up for drifting," etc. etc. etc. Total bull****.

It's depressing how many people base all of their automotive knowledge off of the GT series...why shouldn't they, seeing as how it has the "ultimate driving simulator" tag. So you've got people talking about wanting to get a "stage 2 weight reduction" for their (real-life) car, and thinking getting a car to drift is a long, arduous task, involving lots of expensive modifications and precise tuning...

Hell, my 100 hp, open-diff 318i will happily drift if the pavement's wet. Why shouldn't a 333hp, lsd-equipped M3 do the same in the dry?



Hahaha, Bruce Lee crap? I hope I didn't sound like an elitist prick...

I have a 1984 300zx 2+2 stock with an open diff and all of 160bhp, 173lb-ft of torque (more like 120bhp/130ft-lb) and I drift the hell out of that car. The open diff gets to me some times, but there are ways to get around that "technical difficulty". I also have an 86 2 seater with an LSD and it's NIIIIIICE, but alot less stable. That extra 1" make a big differece. I got the 2+2 for $200 a while ago NOT RUNNING, and I just got it going good now and I'm thinking of keeping it as a drift car. I've had my 86 2 seater for a while and it's alot nicer (it also cost me 2,000 dollars)

Any ways, GT4's physics are just plain wrong. Cars don't handle like that in real life. And I'm glad. Enthu has a perfect physics engine if you ask me. So I just explain drifting technique in Enthusia as the same as it is for drifting in real lilfe. It has to come naturally because if you have to think about it you've already wrecked.

I don't understand why people have to have braking "points" and turn in "points" and throttle "points" I drive each turn as I see it. I remember which way it goes and anyting special about it, like if it's blind, or tightens, or opens, or over crest, etc, (sorry, it carries over from playing McRae Rally) and drive it as I feel best for the situation. A turn is different every lap because you are never at exactly the same entry speed or exactly on the same line, or with the same amount of tire grip at each wheel, or the wind, or temperature, etc, etc, etc. There are millions of variables at any given time, so you need to adapt to the situation and respond what the car gives you. If I start using "points" my lap time drops significantly and I start going off track alot.

And no, you don't sound like an elitest to me because you are absolutely right. You'd sound like an elitest if you were wrong and unable to accept that you might have made a mistake.

 

[NSX-R]

I wouldn't say GT4 isn't worth a cent, it still teaches you to SLOW DOWN to take corners and EASY on the throttle when coming out... however the "real driving simulator" is pushing it, but heck, it's just another marketing strategy.