Different preformance packs do little?

[oopssorryy]

I've got two cars, one being a '90 ZR1 Corvette, and the other a '96 Grand Sport Corvette. I tested them both of 10 laps on Trail and found they lay down nearly the same lap times, with the '96 being a average of .003 seconds faster. Does anyone know of two cars like this (some GT-Rs maybe) that have different packs (in my case different engine!) and yet lay down lap times that should get the the stopwatch trophy.

 

[mrluckypants]

to get the trophy, you need to do 3 laps close together in the same car. i did it in a go-kart.👍

 

[oopssorryy]

to get the trophy, you need to do 3 laps close together in the same car. i did it in a go-kart.👍

Lol i wasnt asking how to get the trophy, just pointing out the oddity of these two corvettes. The grand sport has less peak power butvmore area under the curve. The zr1 is supet peaky but likr i said has more top end power. I think there is a slight weight difference as well, and yet lap times are photo finish. Do the N1/N2 GTRs do this as well?

 

[diptob79]

Depend on the track, torque vs power will have different outcome, and i suggest you need to adapt your style to squeze each car's performance

 

[peter_vod69]

Do some research man, there was six years of suspension and tyre development between the two models. Horsepower isn't everything!

 

[oopssorryy]

Do some research man, there was six years of suspension and tyre development between the two models. Horsepower isn't everything!

But with the ZR1s hp advantage being quite small, it still dosent quite make since to me. I mean maybe the grand sport would feel quicker during regular driving due to its power band, but on a track they are a fraction of an inch appart. A with Chevy sticking with leaf spings they werent didnt improve much. I just find it odd that with a new engine it can only improve its time .003 of a second.

 

[mrluckypants]

Its like the Ford Shelby GT500 Super Snake, 250hp more than stock, but only slightly faster because it can't put the power down to the ground. It isnt just the engine, its also the tires, susp., brakes, aero, and driver skill/mistakes.

 

[oopssorryy]

Hmmm, the problem (so far) seems to effect the Americans more than others.... most likely because we like straight lines and not corners, and it shows in the suspension.

 

[savage388]

But with the ZR1s hp advantage being quite small, it still dosent quite make since to me. I mean maybe the grand sport would feel quicker during regular driving due to its power band, but on a track they are a fraction of an inch appart. A with Chevy sticking with leaf spings they werent didnt improve much. I just find it odd that with a new engine it can only improve its time .003 of a second.

If they are stock the hp difference is much larger. I don't know about tuned.
As for the 6 years of development between the two, the zr1 had pieces in 1990 that were integrated into the grand sport suspension package.

 

[oopssorryy]

Yeah they are all stock. My ZR1 has 20ish hp over the Grand Sport, but the ZR1 has some miles on it. The Grand Sport feels sharper, maybe because of a lighter engine, but in the end it makes no real difference.

 

[grashopper]

Hmmm, the problem (so far) seems to effect the Americans more than others.... most likely because we like straight lines and not corners, and it shows in the suspension.

Speak for yourself!

 

[oopssorryy]

Compared to it's European counter parts, the C4 is rather caveman ish. The Corvette does well compared to the 'Stang and such but when you stick with leaf springs, you'll get poor cornering performance. If they would upgrade the Vette's suspension, you know at least bring it in the 21st century, it would be one of the fastest cars out there. Like the new Camaro's for instance, or the BOSS 302.

 

[grashopper]

I agree with that ... just not the bit about "most likely because we like straight lines and not corners"

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Compared to it's European counter parts, the C4 is rather caveman ish. The Corvette does well compared to the 'Stang and such but when you stick with leaf springs, you'll get poor cornering performance. If they would upgrade the Vette's suspension, you know at least bring it in the 21st century, it would be one of the fastest cars out there. Like the new Camaro's for instance, or the BOSS 302.

I laughed.

You do know that the Corvette uses transverse leaf springs right? You do know there's a reason for it? Lighter, no need for anti-roll bars (so lighter still), and so on. It's not a good setup for drag racing (then again IRS in general is bad for that) but around corners it's pretty much as effective as it's going to get while still being easily packaged in a road car. Ironically it's harder to run leaf springs in an all out race car than it is on a road car.

Also, the irony in whining about the Corvette's suspension design and applauding the Mustang's in the same post has not been lost. C'mon now, the Mustang uses a solid axle in back.

 

[savage388]

Yeah they are all stock. My ZR1 has 20ish hp over the Grand Sport, but the ZR1 has some miles on it. The Grand Sport feels sharper, maybe because of a lighter engine, but in the end it makes no real difference.

The zr1 should have around 40 hp more.

Compared to it's European counter parts, the C4 is rather caveman ish. The Corvette does well compared to the 'Stang and such but when you stick with leaf springs, you'll get poor cornering performance. If they would upgrade the Vette's suspension, you know at least bring it in the 21st century, it would be one of the fastest cars out there. Like the new Camaro's for instance, or the BOSS 302.

So a solid axle is now 21st century? the mustangs suspension has been around since cars existed. Plus the corvette uses a tranverse leaf spring which is quite interesting, not at all like your daddy's truck.

 

[oopssorryy]

I laughed.

You do know that the Corvette uses transverse leaf springs right? You do know there's a reason for it? Lighter, no need for anti-roll bars (so lighter still), and so on. It's not a good setup for drag racing (then again IRS in general is bad for that) but around corners it's pretty much as effective as it's going to get while still being easily packaged in a road car. Ironically it's harder to run leaf springs in an all out race car than it is on a road car.

Also, the irony in whining about the Corvette's suspension design and applauding the Mustang's in the same post has not been lost. C'mon now, the Mustang uses a solid axle in back.

I thought I had read that you could get the 302 with an LSD if you got the Laguna Seca model? I'm not saying I'm a fan of the car, but it's making improvements that are years past due. Didn't know about the Transverse part, but still, but with it's power (and power band) you think it would be able to beat cars like the 911 GT2, and the LF-A is way down on power but is 5 seconds faster. With more effort put into suspension the Vette could be a bit faster, and yet they continue to improve a centuries old suspension.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Compared to it's European counter parts, the C4 is rather caveman ish. The Corvette does well compared to the 'Stang and such but when you stick with leaf springs, you'll get poor cornering performance. If they would upgrade the Vette's suspension, you know at least bring it in the 21st century, it would be one of the fastest cars out there. Like the new Camaro's for instance, or the BOSS 302.

Considering that the Camaro's "modern" independent suspension is widely criticized as being absolute junk and that the Mustang's "ancient" live axle rear suspension runs rings around the Camaro, I'm thinking you're doing a lot of bench racing and very little actual driving. (To be fair to the Mustang, while the live axle is old in theory, the three-link system with a Panhard rod that Ford uses in the S197 Mustangs for locating the live axle is quite thoroughly engineered.)

As for the Corvette itself, the transverse leaf spring has a lot of advantages. It's lighter. It's positioned lower, which means that such weight as there is sits lower, helping the car's center of gravity. It reduces unsprung weight. It doesn't sag nearly as much as coil springs do when they age. And, as others have mentioned, as long as the mounts are properly engineered, a transverse leaf spring functions as an anti-roll bar which can eliminate the need for a separate anti-roll bar or reduce the size of the separate anti-roll bar for the same effect.

 

[savage388]

I thought I had read that you could get the 302 with an LSD if you got the Laguna Seca model? I'm not saying I'm a fan of the car, but it's making improvements that are years past due. Didn't know about the Transverse part, but still, but with it's power (and power band) you think it would be able to beat cars like the 911 GT2, and the LF-A is way down on power but is 5 seconds faster. With more effort put into suspension the Vette could be a bit faster, and yet they continue to improve a centuries old suspension.

The corvette puts power down better than the lfa and the only reason he porsche puts power down so well is that the engine is over the rear axle. The zr1 can post a skidpad of 1.09 g's better than both the lfa and 911 gt2, or anything else sold in the USA other than the acr. And please google the corvettes suspension because it is NOT old. It uses a composite transverse leaf spring that is very effective and pretty advanced. They use it because t works just as well as most multilink set ups but is a good bit lighter. Do you know what transverse even means? Before you start talking you should know a little of what your talking about.

 

[DLR]

But with the ZR1s hp advantage being quite small, it still dosent quite make since to me. I mean maybe the grand sport would feel quicker during regular driving due to its power band, but on a track they are a fraction of an inch appart. A with Chevy sticking with leaf spings they werent didnt improve much. I just find it odd that with a new engine it can only improve its time .003 of a second.

Also make sure your shifting properly. Utilize the powerband graph...

 

[jtv90069]

I've got two cars, one being a '90 ZR1 Corvette, and the other a '96 Grand Sport Corvette. I tested them both of 10 laps on Trail and found they lay down nearly the same lap times, with the '96 being a average of .003 seconds faster. Does anyone know of two cars like this (some GT-Rs maybe) that have different packs (in my case different engine!) and yet lay down lap times that should get the the stopwatch trophy.

The '90 ZR1 was a very expensive Corvette at the time (almost double standard '90 Corvette), with Lotus having input with Engine, Suspension, Brakes and Steering and the Engine was built by Murcury Marine. the '96 Grand Sport was a limited edition not much different from the regular Corvette of that year but a lot cheaper than where the ZR1 was in 1990. I think it speaks more of how far the base model Corvette improved in those years.

I thought I had read that you could get the 302 with an LSD if you got the Laguna Seca model? I'm not saying I'm a fan of the car, but it's making improvements that are years past due. Didn't know about the Transverse part, but still, but with it's power (and power band) you think it would be able to beat cars like the 911 GT2, and the LF-A is way down on power but is 5 seconds faster. With more effort put into suspension the Vette could be a bit faster, and yet they continue to improve a centuries old suspension.

Which Vette are you talking about? the 20 year old C4 ZR1 or the newer C6 ZR1. The C6 is very comparable to the GT2 and LFA . There were 25 prototype C4 ZR1's built with Hydraulic Active Suspension though i do not know how well they performed.