Diminishing Returns on Updates? Is it Time for 6?

[Raitziger]

GT6(or any GT game) for launch date title for PS4 would be nice. The whole concept of vita is a failure. If they had made it tiny bit smaller and you could make phone calls, that would have been a interesting offering. Now it is just like PSP. PSP was not a huge success and now in the android world that just seems like a dinosaur.

 

[karelpipa]

You say they've been adding a lot of stuff but in reality what have they added since spec 2.0, which in itself didn't add that much?

2.01 - fixed bugs from 2.0, nothing new to speak of.
2.02 - wheel changes on standard cars, not exactly a new feature.
2.03 - Misc fixes, the new content was paid DLC.
2.04 - Bug fixes, mostly from older updates.
2.05 - fixed one bug in 2.04 update.

In all that time A-Spec could have been overhauled, hundreds of new events added, new special events could have been added, but in reality the updates haven't really added much new gameplay.

Exactly my thinking.
And the DLC speedtest is a joke.

 

[xxDingerxx]

The way I see it, GT5 itself was an interim product. It does have a feeling that it was made up from parts which felt a bit striped down to run on the PS3.

Weather, the handling model, damage etc while all good, felt like they where just a shadow of what PD wanted to actually do, they were just limited by the amount of RAM in the PS3. Unfortunately I really don't think they can push the PS3 much further now. There is only so much you can ring a console by its neck.

With all the recent tech rumours regarding a PS4 as well as others stating that Sony internal developers have shifted to PS4 development. My guess is GT6 will be a next gen affair. Yes it brakes the cycle of 2 main GT games in a generation but then this has been the 1st generation with games backed up with DLC.

Till then, I think we will see updates continually keep rolling out. One to test new functions for the next game as well as to keep people interested enough to make DLC viable to keep the coin rolling in.

 

[Samus]

The way I see it, GT5 itself was an interim product. It does have a feeling that it was made up from parts which felt a bit striped down to run on the PS3.

Weather, the handling model, damage etc while all good, felt like they where just a shadow of what PD wanted to actually do, they were just limited by the amount of RAM in the PS3. Unfortunately I really don't think they can push the PS3 much further now. There is only so much you can ring a console by its neck.

With all the recent tech rumours regarding a PS4 as well as others stating that Sony internal developers have shifted to PS4 development. My guess is GT6 will be a next gen affair. Yes it brakes the cycle of 2 main GT games in a generation but then this has been the 1st generation with games backed up with DLC.

Till then, I think we will see updates continually keep rolling out. One to test new functions for the next game as well as to keep people interested enough to make DLC viable to keep the coin rolling in.

Most of the problems with GT5 weren't caused by hardware limitations. If they could have night and weather on the Nurburgring they could have had it on all tracks. Also adding more tracks (old and new) wasn't a hardware problem, neither was adding much more A-Spec content. The only limit for extra content is the Blu Ray disc and I believe that isn't even close to being full.

GT5 could have been a much fuller game and the reason it wasn't had nothing to do with system limitations and everything to do with poor planning/management at PD. Whether it was because they focused on the wrong thing or didn't hire enough people, that's the issue. Not the PS3.

 

[xxDingerxx]

@SimonK

The limitations in tech were there for all to see. The fps drops, the torn frames are all to do with them limitations. Yes PD are trying to work on that in updates (mainly by adjusting load levels) but there is only so much you can do before the hardware starts creaking.

As for content, yes they could of done more but if you are referring to things like more premiums and more tracks etc, then they take time to build to their high standards. You just have to look at the premiums and the newer tracks to see the attention to detail they have gone to, its unmatched.

If you think hiring more staff is the answer for everything, then I am affraid none of us are qualified to answer that as none of us know PD's budget. There have been rumours of a 60million cost. So how much do you think they should risk before you are satisfied?. Do you want to double that amount and take a huge risk?.

Its funny when people start to comment about matters that concern other peoples money....

 

[TheEnd35000vr]

Yes the could so a Free-roam, BUT there is so much to do for GT....

- Livery Editor
- Auction House
- Hundreds of p Cars
- New Race Series (realistic races (different classes with massiv Cars in 1 Race,....)
- New Track
- better physics
- Get New license
- PS4 Engine
- New Race Modes (Drag,...)
- Community Features ( Rival Mode, auctions House, Full leaderboard,....)
- more Cars on Track (up to 64)
- and alot more

The part in bold is a truly Brilliant idea. Think about it. A car you dont want anymore that you cant sell. Put it up for Auction so your friends can bid there hard-earned Cr. to win it.

I am sure in one of the FIFA games, probably FIFA 12, they incorporate this to sell players. So it sure as hell can be done.

 

[another_jakhole]

Exactly my thinking.
And the DLC speedtest is a joke.

New content added to GT5 has to be DLC. PD freely gave away the GT 86 (the concept was in the game from the start) and the Schulze GT-R that Kaz raced. Those are obvious why they were given away for free. Any new content has to be sold as DLC. Route X SHOULD have been given away for free, but why wasn't it? Sony, maybe? Money makes the world go round? Your way of thinking is a joke?

Most of the problems with GT5 weren't caused by hardware limitations. If they could have night and weather on the Nurburgring they could have had it on all tracks. Also adding more tracks (old and new) wasn't a hardware problem, neither was adding much more A-Spec content. The only limit for extra content is the Blu Ray disc and I believe that isn't even close to being full.

GT5 could have been a much fuller game and the reason it wasn't had nothing to do with system limitations and everything to do with poor planning/management at PD. Whether it was because they focused on the wrong thing or didn't hire enough people, that's the issue. Not the PS3.

Well, yeah. Kaz/PD didn't even want DLC for GT5, because Kaz knew that at the start, gamers viewed DLC in a negative way. When, or around, the time GT5 was released, we realized that only 200 cars were up to this gen's standards; they exceeded this gen's standards and Kaz has recognized that. GT5 was clearly incomplete at the start. The majority of the time that GT5 was being created, DLC wasn't in his mind.

The PS3 made everybody's work more difficult, not just PD's. The PS3 has been the problem with a lot of things this gen.

Stupid. Just "bleeping" stupid.

It's not that RAM was thee issue, but it was a big one.

 

[k_riens]

nope. Some of us have actually been put off by gt5. I don't trust pd enough to buy gt6 sight unseen. I've bought every other gt on day 1, but this one will have to wait.

x2

 

[another_jakhole]

x2

Not trying to stir anything up, but I think it's strange that most people think the opposite. PD have dealt with GT5 in a great way, even though compared to GT5 2012, the original GT5 wasn't good.

Even then, GT5 had more content (that's not including the cars, but why not? the standards? oh, geeeez ) than all other racing games this gen, except for ForzaM. Well, it still had more content than FM, but FM still didn't have as much content. Isn't replayability a good thing? A lot of people can make do with the cars alone.


\/\/\/ Whaaa?

 

[Piotrov]

^^^^ it was not directed at you. Im on my phone so I messed up. Was going to quote someone and now cant find the post.

In order for that to be useful there has to be some kind of personalization to the car or a stats sheet that says how many accidents the car has been in a list of mods also of races won and lost.

 

[Samus]

@SimonK

The limitations in tech were there for all to see. The fps drops, the torn frames are all to do with them limitations. Yes PD are trying to work on that in updates (mainly by adjusting load levels) but there is only so much you can do before the hardware starts creaking.

As for content, yes they could of done more but if you are referring to things like more premiums and more tracks etc, then they take time to build to their high standards. You just have to look at the premiums and the newer tracks to see the attention to detail they have gone to, its unmatched.

If you think hiring more staff is the answer for everything, then I am affraid none of us are qualified to answer that as none of us know PD's budget. There have been rumours of a 60million cost. So how much do you think they should risk before you are satisfied?. Do you want to double that amount and take a huge risk?.

Its funny when people start to comment about matters that concern other peoples money....

It's not just budget, it's how they used their time. Many of us would say they could have used it better, as one example look at that front page news story about the accurate renderings of buildings for PHOTO MODE. Now I'm not saying that isn't something they should have focused on but they clearly put a LOT of time into that, how many would say that is more important in a racing game than more tracks? The time they spent researching and modelling all of that they could have upscaled more of the older tracks, for example.

I know they were limited by the PS3, we all know that, but it wasn't the main problem with GT5. Not for me anyway.

 

[ch3ng]

Most of the problems with GT5 weren't caused by hardware limitations. If they could have night and weather on the Nurburgring they could have had it on all tracks. Also adding more tracks (old and new) wasn't a hardware problem, neither was adding much more A-Spec content. The only limit for extra content is the Blu Ray disc and I believe that isn't even close to being full.

GT5 could have been a much fuller game and the reason it wasn't had nothing to do with system limitations and everything to do with poor planning/management at PD. Whether it was because they focused on the wrong thing or didn't hire enough people, that's the issue. Not the PS3.

You are wrong. RAM is a Problem. Yes they could Add more cars, Tracks, Night Race, Events,... without Hardware problems...

But other Things wouldn't be possible.

Dont believe me?

Yamauchi complained about the PS3 Hardware already.

The part in bold is a truly Brilliant idea. Think about it. A car you dont want anymore that you cant sell. Put it up for Auction so your friends can bid there hard-earned Cr. to win it.

I am sure in one of the FIFA games, probably FIFA 12, they incorporate this to sell players. So it sure as hell can be done.

Thx. Some of the ideas came from Forza Franchise, because it has them.
For example:

Auction House, Rivals Mode and Livery Editor.

 

[Cade]

Yes. Read your First sentence again. GT5 can Get Patches and DLC. Just See GT5 with all DLC, Patches, SPEC2.0 as GT5.5 or GT6 if we were in a century without Patches and DLC.

I mentioned why GT6 on PS3 doesnt make Sense

PS4 is coming earlier as you think

Sony has no reason to release the PS4 very soon. They already announced that they don't have any plans of releasing the PS4 soon. Nintendo are the ones who need to release a new console because they are severely behind in technology aspect of consoles with the Wii.

 

[greg666]

Maybe PD would love to add those ideas in GT5, however PS3 hardware would not be able to handle it, hence the delay?
Any company would surely test the new feature and see how it runs, check if it's smooth, if it cause any bug. It is normal and always takes time.
Just like an IT company, same concept.
You wouldn't want to roll out brand new feature without testing.

 

[Samus]

You are wrong. RAM is a Problem. Yes they could Add more cars, Tracks, Night Race, Events,... without Hardware problems...

But other Things wouldn't be possible.

How am I wrong because 'other things' that I didn't mention weren't possible?

I'm not sure my point could have been much clearer. The biggest faults of GT5 have nothing to do with system limitations and everything to do with the choices made by PD in creating the game.

 

[Piotrov]

The fact that the game was delayed last minute so that Kaz could make the game at least playable should say it all.

 

[ch3ng]

Sony has no reason to release the PS4 very soon. They already announced that they don't have any plans of releasing the PS4 soon. Nintendo are the ones who need to release a new console because they are severely behind in technology aspect of consoles with the Wii.

Yes they Said that they dont want to Release a PS4 soon, but can you Trust them?

No. They dont want to influence the PS3 sell numbers.

They will Release the PS4 2013-2015 and the next Xbox will be released in the 2013-2015.

The UE4.0 already Works on Next Gen console. Most Likely the XBox, because Epic Said that a next Gen console can handle UE4.0. And Epic was one of the first 360 DevKits owner.
This Engine will be anounced in 2012.

A few Developer are working on next Gen Franchise and that isn't a rumour!

etc.

The next Gen will come sooner than you think. And GT6 on PS3 wouldn't be a Good idea.

You simple can't Trust companys in that Case...

Example?

They Said 1-3 months before the Vita was anounced that no PSP2 is planed.

 

[RichyJ]

The continued updates for the game are nice (and I can think of very few games these days that still get updated almost a year and a half after release) but most the issues of the game are not going to be fixed with updates.
Ps4 is not likely to be released for at least 18 months, plenty of time for a Gt6 release on the Ps3.

 

[Cade]

Yes they Said that they dont want to Release a PS4 soon, but can you Trust them?

No. They dont want to influence the PS3 sell numbers.

They will Release the PS4 2013-2015 and the next Xbox will be released in the 2013-2015.

The UE4.0 already Works on Next Gen console. Most Likely the XBox, because Epic Said that a next Gen console can handle UE4.0. And Epic was one of the first 360 DevKits owner.
This Engine will be anounced in 2012.

A few Developer are working on next Gen Franchise and that isn't a rumour!

etc.

The next Gen will come sooner than you think. And GT6 on PS3 wouldn't be a Good idea.

You simple can't Trust companys in that Case...

Example?

They Said 1-3 months before the Vita was anounced that no PSP2 is planed.

PD isn't part of this list of developers as of now, and as early as 2004 developers were working on next gen games which is now this generation. I doubt we will see a PS4 release next year, but 2014 and 2015 are probable years to release it. PD should try to perfect a racing game with something they are familiar with, not go into uncharted waters test GT6 out on a new and unfamiliar system.

 

[another_jakhole]

^^^ Banned? dayum

New and unfamiliar system won't be a problem. As has been seen with the Vita, making/porting games for it is simple. The PS3 is known to be a pain to learn to reach its full potential. It's the way Ken Kutaragi wanted it to be. I have no doubt that it'll be a lot more simplistic to develop games on the next PS.

GT6 is not needed yet.

I, for one, CAN wait till mid-late 2013. Ultimately, I'd prefer it to be on the PS4.

\/\/\/ I really wouldn't know

 

[Concreterain]

It would take years to build a volume of ps4 in peoples homes, so my money is on ps3.
Sony it seems is abandoning cell for amd. If pd is already working on gt6 , wouldnt it be
programmed for ps3 cell? Just a question.

 

[With a EG6]

GT6 is not needed yet.

 

[counter345]

To be honest, I wouldn't expect GT6 until the PS4- and with that, constant flow of GT5 updates and DLC.

 

[Watt2159]

I can see GT6 being announced sometime this year, or next, but PS4? I honestly don't think that will happen for quite a few more years. I say we just see where DLC, and update 3.0 takes us.........There better be a 3.0!

 

[iaustin7]

Also, DLC for March hasn't been announced, I think PD has focused their attention on "Gran Turismo 6".

 

[TypeRDC5]

Ive gota say i think im ready for GT6.

Ill start off by saying that PD has done a great job updating GT5 and its twice the game it was when it was released.
But unless PD adds some more a-spec races through an update i do think GT6 is needed,after all theres over 1000 cars in the game and just not enough events to use them all in.
I know we get seasonals but i'd much rather have a few new championships to participate in.

 

[research]

A simple (or complex, that would be fine) Event Creator would solve all of our Lack-of-races woes. Spec 3.0 can't come soon enough, and I hope it finally brings us this feature.

On-topic: I just want to back up SimonK's assertion that poor planning and development by PD and especially Kaz is what doomed this game. An appalling amount of time and resources went into stuff that does NOT improve the playability, longevity, fun factor, and racing immersion. Those are the most critical points that should be addressed when creating a console sim, besides realism.


Photo-Mode locations, while beautiful, could have been scrapped completely and no-one would've said a word. Hundreds of suits and helmets? Bleh. Hundreds of utterly worthless Kei cars and 20+ "different" versions of miatas, GTO's, and skylines? C'mon.

20-million polygons per premium car with an energetic aura eminating from the skin of each vehicle, slowing the game so bad that the simple smoke, spray effects, and shadows end up looking like something from an Atari game? Thats embarrassing! Friends come to my house and see that are like, "Dude. This game came out when? 2010?"

These are all sign of some bad decision-making from leadership.
.


It is NOT the ps3 hardware causing problems for a game that the developers knew FULL WELL GOING IN WHAT THEY HAD TO WORK WITH. Anybody denying that basic fact is operating in a narrow tunnel of PD-worship.

6 years of development, guys. Something is wrong in that studio.

 

[another_jakhole]

Photo-Mode locations, while beautiful, could have been scrapped completely and no-one would've said a word. Hundreds of suits and helmets? Bleh. Hundreds of utterly worthless Kei cars and 20+ "different" versions of miatas, GTO's, and skylines? C'mon.

Couuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuldn't be more wrong. Plus, it's complete opinion. I don't use Photo Mode very often, but I KNOW a lot of people would be fuming if it wasn't in GT5. Do you know about that section of the forum? So many people use it, and what would the Admins/Jordan be using in their News articles... and the GTP BANNER for crying out loud.

1It is NOT the ps3 hardware causing problems for a game that the developers knew FULL WELL GOING IN WHAT THEY HAD TO WORK WITH. 2Anybody denying that basic fact is operating in a narrow tunnel of PD-worship.

6 years of development, guys. Something is wrong in that studio.

1During the beginning, they really didn't, especially Kaz. He would be informed that some things couldn't be done due to it. He said it himself. They had to restart on some things over and over again.

2Please don't. I can, honestly, say that's just wrong for more than one reason.

 

[deep_sky]

It is NOT the ps3 hardware causing problems for a game that the developers knew FULL WELL GOING IN WHAT THEY HAD TO WORK WITH.

For the technological make-up of the game, of course the PS3 hardware caused big problems. The PS3 is severely starved of bandwidth and RAM, as witnessed by alpha that is running at such an absurdly low resolution.

For the game design, no, the PS3 hardware was not the problem. That would be a legitimate complaint of Polyphony Digital, that their game design skills are in the toilet, and if I personally am to stick with GT in future, it's an area they will have to improve by a factor of ten. I no longer want the same rehashed and broken GT design from years gone by.

 

[kimi123]

Definitely they are working on GT6. I would think a small team is now handling GT5 and 80% or so working on GT6.

You say they've been adding a lot of stuff but in reality what have they added since spec 2.0, which in itself didn't add that much?

2.01 - fixed bugs from 2.0, nothing new to speak of.
2.02 - wheel changes on standard cars, not exactly a new feature.
2.03 - Misc fixes, the new content was paid DLC.
2.04 - Bug fixes, mostly from older updates.
2.05 - fixed one bug in 2.04 update.

In all that time A-Spec could have been overhauled, hundreds of new events added, new special events could have been added, but in reality the updates haven't really added much new gameplay.

You need to go back and go through all the list of things and also go through forum to the list of things which are not mentioned since launch