Do "Kerbs" & Run-Off Areas Wear Tires?

[Afrodeezy]

Exactly as the title states. Does consistently driving over Kerbs & run-off areas increase tire degradation? (the rate at which the tire wears)

The reason I ask is because I(and many other quick drivers I know) use kerbs as part of the proper line through a corner. Is this making my tires wear quicker, like IRL? (to an extent). I've been wondering for a while, and I figure this would be the place to ask!

Thanks in advance guys, I appreciate all the input! Have a good one 👍

 

[mattythedog]

I don't think so.

 

[Couchyy]

I'm trying to test this right now. I'm doing the first endurance race, Grand Valley Raceway I think it is, in a lancer. I'm using racing soft tires because they wear the fastest, and am 40 laps in driving normally for 30 of those.

The first 30 laps i have found that the front tires wear much faster than the rear, being an AWD car, this is quite natural. However both front tires have been wearing at the same rate.

From lap 30 - 40 I have been making sure to not hit any rumble stripes or curbs on the RIGHT and side, but hit every one on the LEFT. The left tires are wearing faster but it's not that much, and would barely make any difference to pit strategies.

A factor to this particular race that may be different from other tracks, is the large curbs in the tunnels. These feel like they would be much more likely to damage the tire than the chance of a ruble strip doing so. I will test the same theory on another track once i'm done to explore further.

Also, I'm still on lap 40/60, so if anyone wants to suggest some ways for me to test it with some more laps, i will be happy too.

 

[niky]

Simple. Turn on your g-meter and take every turn at exactly a half-g.

One difference is that if you're banging the curbs going one way but not going the other, then you may not be generating as much lateral G's when banging on the curbs.

Or you may be running slightly over the curbs and on the grass or gravel, which may be causing extra wear. Easiest way to really test this is to get on an oval and ride the inside curb for a few laps... see how long it takes to wear down the inside front tire. Then run a few more laps without hitting the same curb. Make sure to do it at a constant speed. Maxed out, say, in third gear.

 

[Shoe67]

I'm not sure about riding curbs, but I know that hooking one tire over the far side of the curb and throttling around the corner wears your outside rear faster

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

This isn't that difficult: "kerb-hopping" as I call it, is a sprint race technique, in which the objective of the kerb-usage is to "hop" over a small portion of grass. This "hop" causes the tires to come off of the ground. While in the air, inertia starts to carry the car forward, causing it to lose slip angle, and otherwise simply lose grip.


Upon returning to the racing surface, the tires skid more than they normally would. While it's great for cutting lap times through tight chicanes, I don't normally recommend it for slower speed corners. If it's tight, more inertia is built up, because the car's turning at a tighter radius.


Of course, if you're not worried about tire life, I fully recommend kerb usage.

If you're worried about tire life, don't use the kerbs. Your car will bump around much more than normal.


This is going by real life experiences, from my karting career. In those races, tire life was never a concern, so I used to use kerbs in specific corners, to kerb hop. Others were so high, though, that you risked losing control by touching them, and in the rain, you couldn't even touch a kerb, if you tried, because the water puddles around the kerbs, meaning that you understeer WAY before touching the kerb.

 

[Afrodeezy]

This isn't that difficult: "kerb-hopping" as I call it, is a sprint race technique, in which the objective of the kerb-usage is to "hop" over a small portion of grass. This "hop" causes the tires to come off of the ground. While in the air, inertia starts to carry the car forward, causing it to lose slip angle, and otherwise simply lose grip.

Upon returning to the racing surface, the tires skid more than they normally would. While it's great for cutting lap times through tight chicanes, I don't normally recommend it for slower speed corners. If it's tight, more inertia is built up, because the car's turning at a tighter radius.

Of course, if you're not worried about tire life, I fully recommend kerb usage.

If you're worried about tire life, don't use the kerbs. Your car will bump around much more than normal.

This is going by real life experiences, from my karting career. In those races, tire life was never a concern, so I used to use kerbs in specific corners, to kerb hop. Others were so high, though, that you risked losing control by touching them, and in the rain, you couldn't even touch a kerb, if you tried, because the water puddles around the kerbs, meaning that you understeer WAY before touching the kerb.

Thank you for the input, but I'm not necessarily talking about cutting a small portion of grass (for example, doing so at the Nordschleife would likely spin you), I'm talking about simply driving on just the kerb as you take a line through the corner, not actually leaving the race track. Sorry for not clarifying.

 

[Afrodeezy]

I'm trying to test this right now. I'm doing the first endurance race, Grand Valley Raceway I think it is, in a lancer. I'm using racing soft tires because they wear the fastest, and am 40 laps in driving normally for 30 of those.

The first 30 laps i have found that the front tires wear much faster than the rear, being an AWD car, this is quite natural. However both front tires have been wearing at the same rate.

From lap 30 - 40 I have been making sure to not hit any rumble stripes or curbs on the RIGHT and side, but hit every one on the LEFT. The left tires are wearing faster but it's not that much, and would barely make any difference to pit strategies.

A factor to this particular race that may be different from other tracks, is the large curbs in the tunnels. These feel like they would be much more likely to damage the tire than the chance of a ruble strip doing so. I will test the same theory on another track once i'm done to explore further.

Also, I'm still on lap 40/60, so if anyone wants to suggest some ways for me to test it with some more laps, i will be happy too.

Thanks for digging deep into this, I'd do some testing myself, but I'm a few thousand miles from my PS3!

Testing on an oval At a constant speed would be a good idea too, that should come up with some conclusive results 👍

 

[MSTER232]

Thank you for the input, but I'm not necessarily talking about cutting a small portion of grass (for example, doing so at the Nordschleife would likely spin you), I'm talking about simply driving on just the kerb as you take a line through the corner, not actually leaving the race track. Sorry for not clarifying.

I'm going to have to test this at Indianapolis Raceway the next time I go on GT5 and see how many laps it takes for the inner tyres to wear out riding the kerb and not riding the kerb.

 

[Afrodeezy]

I'm going to have to test this at Indianapolis Raceway the next time I go on GT5 and see how many laps it takes for the inner tyres to wear out riding the kerb and not riding the kerb.

Cool, let me know how that pans out!

 

[lintels123]

Cool, let me know how that pans out!

I'm not sure exatly how it goes for gt5 but in most stock car racing in ovals(left hand turns), don't the right sides wear out quicker then the left? So doing this on just an oval may not get you proper results. I expect it would have to be at a track with just as many left corners as there are right for the most curate results(something along the lines of suzuka). What would be perfect for this test is the "complex string" from gt3(correct me if I'm wrong because I've never played gt3 unfortunatly). These are just my thoughts on what I would expect out of what I've seen in real motorsports.

 

[Shoe67]

I'm not sure exatly how it goes for gt5 but in most stock car racing in ovals(left hand turns), don't the right sides wear out quicker then the left? So doing this on just an oval may not get you proper results. I expect it would have to be at a track with just as many left corners as there are right for the most curate results(something along the lines of suzuka). What would be perfect for this test is the "complex string" from gt3(correct me if I'm wrong because I've never played gt3 unfortunatly). These are just my thoughts on what I would expect out of what I've seen in real motorsports.

They are saying run with the lefts on the curb nonstop for lap after lap, then running again with the left sides off the curb and see if there is a difference in tire wear

 

[Afrodeezy]

They are saying run with the lefts on the curb nonstop for lap after lap, then running again with the left sides off the curb and see if there is a difference in tire wear

This^^

 

[HippieGiraffe]

I'm not sure exatly how it goes for gt5 but in most stock car racing in ovals(left hand turns), don't the right sides wear out quicker then the left?

They do, mainly because all the weight is "pushed" to the right side as they spin laps, ie. centrifugal force. As the tires gain heat, they also increase pressure, causing further strain and wear. The best way to see this is when a car loses a tire and slams the wall... its always a rights that go. The same would apply to AUSCAR and equivalents, except the lefts would take more abuse because they drive the "wrong" way.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC4y2DQHbT8 <-- 'Tiregate' at Indy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf07fHLIB6M

You do have a point in what you say though, it wouldn't be an ideal place to test out the wear patterns. Curbs or not, ovals are going to skew that wear and as such the results. Not to mention, NASCAR drivers rarely ride the curbs like the do at, say, Sarthe or Monza.

 

[Afrodeezy]

They do, mainly because all the weight is "pushed" to the right side as they spin laps, ie. centrifugal force. As the tires gain heat, they also increase pressure, causing further strain and wear. The best way to see this is when a car loses a tire and slams the wall... its always a rights that go. The same would apply to AUSCAR and equivalents, except the lefts would take more abuse because they drive the "wrong" way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC4y2DQHbT8 <-- 'Tiregate' at Indy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf07fHLIB6M

You do have a point in what you say though, it wouldn't be an ideal place to test out the wear patterns. Curbs or not, ovals are going to skew that wear and as such the results.

In not sure you understand it. only the LEFT tire's wear would be monitored at a constant speed. 10 laps riding the kerb, 10 laps driving next to the kerb at the same speed (maybe maxed out in 3rd or 4th gear) and see which left tire wears more. I'd love to test this but I'm on vacation until Saturday. Can anyone else test this?

 

[peter_vod69]

I'm trying to test this right now. I'm doing the first endurance race, Grand Valley Raceway I think it is, in a lancer. I'm using racing soft tires because they wear the fastest, and am 40 laps in driving normally for 30 of those.

The first 30 laps i have found that the front tires wear much faster than the rear, being an AWD car, this is quite natural. However both front tires have been wearing at the same rate.

From lap 30 - 40 I have been making sure to not hit any rumble stripes or curbs on the RIGHT and side, but hit every one on the LEFT. The left tires are wearing faster but it's not that much, and would barely make any difference to pit strategies.

A factor to this particular race that may be different from other tracks, is the large curbs in the tunnels. These feel like they would be much more likely to damage the tire than the chance of a ruble strip doing so. I will test the same theory on another track once i'm done to explore further.

Also, I'm still on lap 40/60, so if anyone wants to suggest some ways for me to test it with some more laps, i will be happy too.

I'm almost certain that the tyre wear you are seeing is simply down to the course being clockwise (IE more right-corners = more load on left tyres).

 

[Afrodeezy]

I'm almost certain that the tyre wear you are seeing is simply down to the course being clockwise (IE more right-corners = more load on left tyres).

This is why Oval track testing would be the best, as it eliminates those variables

 

[lintels123]

They do, mainly because all the weight is "pushed" to the right side as they spin laps, ie. centrifugal force. As the tires gain heat, they also increase pressure, causing further strain and wear. The best way to see this is when a car loses a tire and slams the wall... its always a rights that go. The same would apply to AUSCAR and equivalents, except the lefts would take more abuse because they drive the "wrong" way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC4y2DQHbT8 <-- 'Tiregate' at Indy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf07fHLIB6M

You do have a point in what you say though, it wouldn't be an ideal place to test out the wear patterns. Curbs or not, ovals are going to skew that wear and as such the results. Not to mention, NASCAR drivers rarely ride the curbs like the do at, say, Sarthe or Monza.

I watch NASCAR along with other motorsports and fully understand the increased pressure, wear, tire load, etc. Unless you do a test for example with 30 laps at indy hitting the curbs every lap forward then going backwards and doing 30 laps without hitting any curbs. Though I do understand the whole idea the others have of just testing the wear on one side. I just think it would show more steady results but that is just my opinion

 

[peter_vod69]

This is why Oval track testing would be the best, as it eliminates those variables

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[Afrodeezy]

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Don't you facepalm me. If there are a ton of different corners in different directions, it can inconsistently affect tire wear . An oval is only left turns, and it's pretty consistent. I feel like that would be the best way to test it.

Thanks for wasting bandwidth, time, and being completely useless in helping me answer my question. If you have anything to contribute, great, let it rip. if not, have a nice day, and please don't waste any more time then you already have, I don't care to start an argument, that's not the point of the thread.

Good day, sir

 

[Couchyy]

I'm almost certain that the tyre wear you are seeing is simply down to the course being clockwise (IE more right-corners = more load on left tyres).

I would have assumed the exact same thing, if it wasn't for the tires wearing at the same rate for 30 laps. They only started wearing differently when i started hitting curbs.

 

[HippieGiraffe]

Thanks for wasting bandwidth

Just for a laugh, I decided to take a car out onto IMS. Chose it over Daytona for the lack of extreme banking, which would further speed the wear. I did 20lps counterclockwise, keeping constant around 150mph, riding the curbs and along the grass... in my mind the greenery should act as a natural rumblestrip. Something the 'Tire Load Indicator' appeared to confirm. I found there was absolutely no pronounced wear happening on the lefts, while the rights wore down 50%+ faster. More or less what I had said. The rears on both sides had slightly faster wear than the fronts, mainly due to the lack of turning angle and more of a dragging effect & increased power deliverance. I pitted, spun round, and proceeded in a clockwise manner. Only did 10lps - because the calm AI were suddenly four wide and hit me head on - but the tires were wearing down at the same or near rates.

In reality, the curb-wear effect is so minimal it seems nonexistent. Because it probably is when looking at a single set of tires over an average number of laps. I also doubt many... if any... race teams seriously look into this over a weekend. Unless you're Stefano Domenicali or Pat Fry, that is. Actually, I've been watching motorsport since I was in diapers, and don't recall any talk of increased wear from running over the curbs. The only mentions I hear of are those to the effect of a broken/bent chassis and loss of grip in the wet. This goes from the primitive NASCAR commentators right up to the technical F1 and ACO folk.

 

[peter_vod69]

Don't you facepalm me. If there are a ton of different corners in different directions, it can inconsistently affect tire wear . An oval is only left turns, and it's pretty consistent. I feel like that would be the best way to test it.

Thanks for wasting bandwidth, time, and being completely useless in helping me answer my question. If you have anything to contribute, great, let it rip. if not, have a nice day, and please don't waste any more time then you already have, I don't care to start an argument, that's not the point of the thread.

Good day, sir

IT WAS BECAUSE YOU MISSED THE BLOODY POINT!

If you are turning one way, more than the other then you will, inevitably, wear one side's tyres more than the other! Now, tell me how an oval (where, typically, you turn one way ONLY) is going to give you even tyre wear?

 

[Afrodeezy]

IT WAS BECAUSE YOU MISSED THE BLOODY POINT!

If you are turning one way, more than the other then you will, inevitably, wear one side's tyres more than the other! Now, tell me how an oval (where, typically, you turn one way ONLY) is going to give you even tyre wear?

If you turn left , it's wearing the right tire more as more of the car's weight is "pushed" in that direction. This is why I suggested only testing tire wear on the left tire going around the course, as this Would be somewhat "neutral".

Hell, even if you go the opposite direction riding the kerb with your right tire, the weight would be pushed to the left side (outside of the corner) thus wearing the tire you aren't testing more.

So tell me, who's really missing the point?

 

[Afrodeezy]

Just for a laugh, I decided to take a car out onto IMS. Chose it over Daytona for the lack of extreme banking, which would further speed the wear. I did 20lps counterclockwise, keeping constant around 150mph, riding the curbs and along the grass... in my mind the greenery should act as a natural rumblestrip. Something the 'Tire Load Indicator' appeared to confirm. I found there was absolutely no pronounced wear happening on the lefts, while the rights wore down 50%+ faster. More or less what I had said. The rears on both sides had slightly faster wear than the fronts, mainly due to the lack of turning angle and more of a dragging effect & increased power deliverance. I pitted, spun round, and proceeded in a clockwise manner. Only did 10lps - because the calm AI were suddenly four wide and hit me head on - but the tires were wearing down at the same or near rates.

In reality, the curb-wear effect is so minimal it seems nonexistent. Because it probably is when looking at a single set of tires over an average number of laps. I also doubt many... if any... race teams seriously look into this over a weekend. Unless you're Stefano Domenicali or Pat Fry, that is. Actually, I've been watching motorsport since I was in diapers, and don't recall any talk of increased wear from running over the curbs. The only mentions I hear of are those to the effect of a broken/bent chassis and loss of grip in the wet. This goes from the primitive NASCAR commentators right up to the technical F1 and ACO folk.

Thanks for testing! So there isn't significant wear differences, good to know! Now I can fly over Kerbs in endurance races and not have to worry

As for the Ferrari technical directors, no need to link, I figured my icon would give away that I'm an avid F1 fan (who has a dislike for Vettel)

 

[peter_vod69]

If you turn left , it's wearing the right tire more as more of the car's weight is "pushed" in that direction. This is why I suggested only testing tire wear on the left tire going around the course, as this Would be somewhat "neutral".

Hell, even if you go the opposite direction riding the kerb with your right tire, the weight would be pushed to the left side (outside of the corner) thus wearing the tire you aren't testing more.

So tell me, who's really missing the point?

You. Still.

I would have assumed the exact same thing, if it wasn't for the tires wearing at the same rate for 30 laps. They only started wearing differently when i started hitting curbs.

Having done the race recently (on Sports hards) I found that, because I was turning right more often (because the course goes clockwise), I was wearing the front-left out first (which would make sense). Granted, the difference wasn't huge, but it was there. I did find that by making extra effort to avoid overstressing tyres (indicated by the tyre indicator going red), I could get a bit more life out of them (about two more laps).

 

[peter_vod69]

Edit - delete

 

[Afrodeezy]

You. Still.

I knew you would say this. Don't say I'm still missing the point without explaining why. Please, enlighten me.

 

[HippieGiraffe]

please, enlighten me.

i'd love to test this but i'm on vacation until saturday.

Go vacation.

 

[Afrodeezy]

Go vacation.

I am, but There's A LOT of downtime at the moment.. Lol