Do PD and Kaz realise how many customers they are losing ?

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Gt5 is a racing game but the AI is not geared for the small number of hardcore sim racers. The AI is designed (as with most console titles) with the casual gamer in mind. Even the seasonal events are more aim to challenge the casual gamers than the hardcore fans.
It's the exact same with Nascar the Game 2011 and F1 2010. I expect no difference with F1 2011. If you want more challenging AI you need to get PC titles like "Game Stock Car".

 

[Exorcet]

Then why on the box of the game, and on the title does it say "The Real Driving Simulator", and not something like Race simulator, or 100% authentic racing game, or something along those lines?

Why does what it say on the box define what it is.

Real Driving simulator is a marketing phrase. GT is a racing game, clearly, since the bulk of the game is racing.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Why does what it say on the box define what it is.

Real Driving simulator is a marketing phrase. GT is a racing game, clearly, since the bulk of the game is racing.

Still, it's aim more as a driving simulator than a racing game (though racing is a large part) which is why it has so many non-racing car. Some can't get up to 100mph.

 

[Exorcet]

Still, it's aim more as a driving simulator than a racing game (though racing is a large part) which is why it has so many non-racing car. Some can't get up to 100mph.

People race each other, and they can't even get up to highways speed limits. Anything that moves can be raced.

There is no option in game for driving 20 hp cars on the road, even though that's the only place they were ever meant to go.

It wouldn't have been too difficult for PD to find some mountain roads to model instead of race tracks for us to cruise on with our GT convertibles like Astons and Mercedes at highway speeds through AI traffic.

They didn't do this though. They made a racing game instead.

 

[NA]

Gt5 is a racing game but the AI is not geared for the small number of hardcore sim racers. The AI is designed (as with most console titles) with the casual gamer in mind. Even the seasonal events are more aim to challenge the casual gamers than the hardcore fans.

This.

On top of that, if GT was ment mainly to be a driving game, rather than a racer, we'd probably have Kaz's free roam city idea has the game's core, instead of a-spec/b-spec, and cars/parts would likely be unlocked through free roam "tasks" of some sort, as opposed to being 100% tied to profits from racing. A tag line in a title means nothing compared to the content of the game itself.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

If they wanted this to be a competitive racing game they wouldve added catch up like alot of other games that people claim to have actual good AI
which isnt hard to implement
They are losing customers according to who ?
a site ? your 40 or so friends ?
The complaints will always be louder than the praises and thats with every game .The more a game sell the more critics you will hear
I support the critics here because in the long run it will make the game better how ever the complainers .. the ones who want a game tailored to their liking isnt hellping anything

 

[Exorcet]

if they wanted this to be a competitive racing game they wouldve added catch up like every other game that people claim to have actual good AI

It was in GT5P until people forced PD to remove it. I agree with the anti rubberbanders. There are better ways to make the AI better. My problems with it was the lack of consistency. I don't mind the AI having an advantage. They need one, but magic catch up is a bit silly.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

Haha i forgot it was on gtpsp

I think they should make it a option on GT5
Or atleast a upgraded version

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

How many times have I insulted anybody in this thread or in my other posts so far? I state fact and if you dont like it then its an insult?

You've done it several times on various threads and it is usually you calling them cry babies which isn't necessary. Also some of us would like to have a complete game especially those of us that spent 110-120 dollars on a game. Or better yet invested 400-600 dollars because they're massive gran turismo fans and were only waiting on that game to come out. I think people have a right to say what they want about GT.

 

[steve30x]

Or better yet invested 400-600 dollars because they're massive gran turismo fans

You didnt pay 400 - 600 dollars on the game alone. You spent the rest on stuff that you did'nt necesarily need. Thats not PD's fault.

I paid 500 euro for a PS3 because I wanted to play GT5 , 80 euro (Yes I bought it twice) on GT5 Prologue and 65 euro on GT5 , but you dont see me claiming PD owes me more from the game nor do you see me complain about any aspect of the game. Also I am a massive GT fan. I've played all GT games that came to Ireland and enjoyed every single one of them.

So dont preach to me about who invested how much so they can play GT5 or the fact that people are massive GT fans so they have the right to complain about the smallest little silly thing in the game because they spent lots of money to play GT5 or that PD owes who what. PD dont owe you guys anything. They spent six years developing this game and then some people are ungreatful for their hard work. The developers worked so hard on the game that they slept in the PD building for gods sake.

They have a right to complain yes , but the things I see people complain about are silly trivial little things.

 

[Tenacious D]

I support the critics here because in the long run it will make the game better how ever the complainers .. the ones who want a game tailored to their liking isnt hellping anything

No lie. Waah waah waah.

It's been nine months. If you're still here saying the game is crap, every other game is better, and you probably won't be buying GT6, then you're wasting your time and ours. Why spend time on a board which you clearly have no reason to? Then again, dumping on one of SONY's best selling franchises of all time seems to be the endless spectator sport. You aren't coool unless you're doing it too.

But after nine months of hatred, if you're still playing it, and still here, then I think you're fibbing about something. You don't hate it, the issues aren't so bad you've thrown the game into the closet or sold it, you will be buying GT6...

It's basic math. I've bought a number of games from Codemasters, Simbin, ISI (rFactor), Eutechnyx, T10, have the Live For Speed demo, and I don't have much hope that any other company will give me the essence and spirit of the love of the automobile I get in a Gran Turismo game. And even in Prologue, I get the physics flavor of a good PC sim. GT5 is so close I don't care to debate it anymore. PC sims are stingy on content and are very dry, clinical, sterile games. Codies don't seem to know how to code for a wheel controller. Ferrari Challenge is basically Forza on the PS3, and Forza is... well, Forza, with its own flaws. And what do I do?

Not go on ANY of those boards and complain that their games just don't cut it. I did try a few criticisms on the Eutechnyx board - critiques, mind you, not "PLEASE make FC into GT," but the team and fans both basically told me to STFU and like what I was given. So I haven't been there ever since. And forget mentioning anything very critical of Forza on their boards.

I don't have the time or energy to try and push a mountain of opinion stacked against me.

These games are always going to have their own flavor and feel and positives and negatives. Dare I say it, this is where things like variety come from. Criticism is fine, it should be welcome. As big a GT fanboy as I am, I've been pretty vocal in the early weeks of GT5's release, and listed my eight or ten things that seemed brain dead to me. Not graphic glitches, or the note of one car is completely wrong, or the dozens of Skylines - and guys, this is seriously old, YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO LOOK AT THEM. But after nine months, the paint shop still has no paint of its own, the XP system is still in place, there are still just a handful of offline A-Spec Events, yadda yadda. Things are changing - if you haven't been paying attention to the updates and tweets and interviews with Kaz and people at SONY, then I have nothing more to say to you. But they're obviously listening to someone. My pet peeves, though, asnd many of yours, those are still lingering.

However, when I take a car out on the track, offline against bots, I don't care anymore. The racing is freaking awesome, the Standard cars look fine, and I have a blast that I don't get from those other racers.

Maybe this is why you same 20 or 30 complainers aren't getting anywhere, and we don't care what you have to say. Just a thought.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You didnt pay 400 - 600 dollars on the game alone. You spent the rest on stuff that you did'nt necesarily need. Thats not PD's fault.

I paid 500 euro for a PS3 because I wanted to play GT5 , 80 euro (Yes I bought it twice) on GT5 Prologue and 65 euro on GT5 , but you dont see me claiming PD owes me more from the game nor do you see me complain about any aspect of the game. Also I am a massive GT fan. I've played all GT games that came to Ireland and enjoyed every single one of them.

So dont preach to me about who invested how much so they can play GT5 or the fact that people are massive GT fans so they have the right to complain about the smallest little silly thing in the game because they spent lots of money to play GT5 or that PD owes who what. PD dont owe you guys anything. They spent six years developing this game and then some people are ungreatful for their hard work. The developers worked so hard on the game that they slept in the PD building for gods sake.

They have a right to complain yes , but the things I see people complain about are silly trivial little things.

It's called an Investment, maybe you should look it up. Meaning due to the game they invested money and spent plenty to be able to play a game to the best level possible. Yet the game had many issues out of the box which makes such an investment counter productive. Never said PD owed money to me but good job at trying to twist my words. We are "complaining" because we want PD to do better from the get go and not after the game is out. We're saying what we want not out of hate for PD but so they understand what their lifetime fans want so GT6 is a great game and not a repeat. I guess when people complain about government where you come from they're just being cry babies. I don't see people complaining about little things and I'm not either, but I'd like to see what you think is little. If you actually read any post prior to the ones directed at you you'll see that I think the op has it wrong to an extent.

 

[deep_sky]

They have a right to complain yes , but the things I see people complain about are silly trivial little things.

Things.

Plural.

There are many trivial things wrong with GT5. In isolation, they may not be so bad, but when there are copious amounts of trivial problems, it all adds up.

And the big problem is that it wouldn't take much to fix them. A few more menu shortcuts here, unlimited paint chip usage there, a few more comfirmation prompts cut-down over here, shortened car-buying sequence over there, and suddenly things would be so much better...even better than they are now.

 

[vandaliser]

what customers?

as of now both GT5 prologue and GT5 have combined sales over 10 million. Their nearest competitor is so far behind it's not even in the same league.


Do you know why is this? It's because GT has that feeling no racing game gives you. when you take a car on the ring and race it in treacherous conditions with 15 other guys jocking for position, when you can feel every bump, dip and corner of the track, you suddenly get this intense awesome reacing experience.

That's why GT is king. The developers know what sells. not livery, not some rewind feature, not 100 ways to customise a car, not dumbing down gameplay with millions of assists, not being stale with same boring routine of racing in sunlight and on tarmac every single time.

 

[Ya Pops]

what customers?

as of now both GT5 prologue and GT5 have combined sales over 10 million. Their nearest competitor is so far behind it's not even in the same league.


Do you know why is this? It's because GT has that feeling no racing game gives you. when you take a car on the ring and race it in treacherous conditions with 15 other guys jocking for position, when you can feel every bump, dip and corner of the track, you suddenly get this intense awesome reacing experience.

That's why GT is king. The developers know what sells. not livery, not some rewind feature, not 100 ways to customise a car, not dumbing down gameplay with millions of assists, not being stale with same boring routine of racing in sunlight and on tarmac every single time.

Subtle... Real subtle.

 

[godlameroso]

I wonder how many people that complain about the physics, have actual experience with driving a car quickly? I think a lot of the complainers are just frustrated by how slow they are, and in order to spare their ego the embarrassment of the truth, rationalize it by nit picking. They think to themselves "surely I'm not this bad, it's the game's bad physics"

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

what customers?

as of now both GT5 prologue and GT5 have combined sales over 10 million. Their nearest competitor is so far behind it's not even in the same league.


Do you know why is this? It's because GT has that feeling no racing game gives you. when you take a car on the ring and race it in treacherous conditions with 15 other guys jocking for position, when you can feel every bump, dip and corner of the track, you suddenly get this intense awesome reacing experience.

That's why GT is king. The developers know what sells. not livery, not some rewind feature, not 100 ways to customise a car, not dumbing down gameplay with millions of assists, not being stale with same boring routine of racing in sunlight and on tarmac every single time.

We will see how much FM4 and F1 2011 sale. Also GT5P and GT5 are different games so I don't see how making them a combine sale is legit. GT5 alone has sold well and trumps the competition. Yet sales don't make a game most of those sales and this is recorded are from presales of both versions - collectors and regular- So PD with GT made most of its money before the game came out and the few weeks after it dropped. So this doesn't change the fact that far after people had the game and dug into it did they realize that it was more hype than fact. Hell I promoted this game like Democrats promoted Obama in 2008, and even I am quite dissapointed. This is the first GT game I have played that I couldn't fully tune a car without a patch months later. That says something. Real Driving or race experience aside that isn't right for either. Sells dont tell the true story, just shows how many fans PD really has or how well they promote a product.

I agree though, I love GT because of the feel you get when you win a series and get a new car or when you hash out hours of racing to buy the car you wanted from the dealership. Or when you get all the licenses and can race anything you want. GT does create this feeling of WOW.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I wonder how many people that complain about the physics, have actual experience with driving a car quickly? I think a lot of the complainers are just frustrated by how slow they are, and in order to spare their ego the embarrassment of the truth, rationalize it by nit picking. They think to themselves "surely I'm not this bad, it's the game's bad physics"

You'd be surprised, also most people that complain are doing so because they have experience with other games that true race car drivers promote as the real deal. Games such as iRacing, which looking at your post count you are probably new, but if you look around at similar threads you'll notice that people base their claims on physics because of iracing and other pc sims that true racers promote. There are a good number of people that do race and perfer the games because it is obviously cheaper. So people have a number of things to gauge from they don't need to be some weekend race warrior. The physics in this game are good though compared to versions of FM and NFS, as well as shift. Yet compared the F1 cars in GT to iracings Williams FW31 and you'll notice the differences.

 

[paulpg87]

they surely lost me, i won't buy their crap anymore. i want to remember them for gt4 but now it's time to change towrad better games.

 

[vandaliser]

We will see how much FM4 and F1 2011 sale. Also GT5P and GT5 are different games so I don't see how making them a combine sale is legit. GT5 alone has sold well and trumps the competition. Yet sales don't make a game most of those sales and this is recorded are from presales of both versions - collectors and regular- So PD with GT made most of its money before the game came out and the few weeks after it dropped. So this doesn't change the fact that far after people had the game and dug into it did they realize that it was more hype than fact. Hell I promoted this game like Democrats promoted Obama in 2008, and even I am quite dissapointed. This is the first GT game I have played that I couldn't fully tune a car without a patch months later. That says something. Real Driving or race experience aside that isn't right for either. Sells dont tell the true story, just shows how many fans PD really has or how well they promote a product.

I agree though, I love GT because of the feel you get when you win a series and get a new car or when you hash out hours of racing to buy the car you wanted from the dealership. Or when you get all the licenses and can race anything you want. GT does create this feeling of WOW.

may be your priorities are quite different to mine.

you see i care about one thing. The driving experience. The cars in GT have driven EXACTLY to the ones i have owned in real life. When i say exactly i mean exactly that. The gameplay is what matters to me. You can keep the customisation. All i can say is that gameplay is what matters.


as for forza and f1, well they should try and beat the so called demo version of GT 5 before tackling the main game proper.


And by the way the silent majority of fans love the game. as it shows by the amount of games that can be played online after 9 freakin months. So rhere's no point in blanking your own feelings with the rest of the fans of the series.

In my opinion the only thing that i personally wish for in GT5 is a few more dynamic tracks like spa, silverstone, bathurst, donnigton and isle of man.

More tracks means more racing and more fun

 

[Spagetti69]

GT is not a racing game, it says on the freaking title, "The Real Driving Simulator"

Listen man, are you sitting down.

Don't know how to break this to ya but....
Red bull doesn't really give you wings.

 

[Tenacious D]

Subtle... Real subtle.

Yeah, these guys who say "GT5 is sufficient as it is - weird issues aside" don't see where competitors like Forza and Shift are taking the racing game.

As much as I grump at Forza - or did anyway, only poke jabs at it here and there anymore, both FM and Shift have gone a long way towards giving you the ability to create your own darn race car. Not someone else's but yours, with your own livery design and decals, your name and your nations flag next to your name. Your own racer, unlike any other, like real life race car drivers have. This is something I really miss in GT5.

Every proper addition to a racing game franchise is always a good thing. Yeah, rewind is kiddy stuff, a hundred assists are for lamers, but this is really good for getting kids into the game and making car fans out of gamers. When they finally "get it" and become serious racers, this benefits everyone, and the smarter ones can make requests of future games which will be great for the whole market.

But remember now, GT5 has a pretty big list of assists too.

 

[Spagetti69]

Tenacious, your in non biased mode tonight.

Only joking, I like your posts, even if I don't totally agree 8^)

 

[steve30x]

Yeah, these guys who say "GT5 is sufficient as it is - weird issues aside" don't see where competitors like Forza and Shift are taking the racing game.

Are you kidding me? I own Forza 1 , 2 and 3 and I also own NFS Shift 1 and 2.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

may be your priorities are quite different to mine.

you see i care about one thing. The driving experience. The cars in GT have driven EXACTLY to the ones i have owned in real life. When i say exactly i mean exactly that. The gameplay is what matters to me. You can keep the customisation. All i can say is that gameplay is what matters.


as for forza and f1, well they should try and beat the so called demo version of GT 5 before tackling the main game proper.


And by the way the silent majority of fans love the game. as it shows by the amount of games that can be played online after 9 freakin months. So rhere's no point in blanking your own feelings with the rest of the fans of the series.

In my opinion the only thing that i personally wish for in GT5 is a few more dynamic tracks like spa, silverstone, bathurst, donnigton and isle of man.
More tracks means more racing and more fun

Okay first off not sure how or where you read I don't care about the driving experience, you must have skipped over the last part of my post where I said why I love GT and the fun it is for me. You'd make a good politico one day, twisting words here but ignoring everything else, Bravo!!! Once again not sure how I'm making my opinion everyones, I think the several threads posted since the game vouche for peoples angst toward PD with GT5. Also seeing as you're new to this forum if you look at the past nine to ten months of threads on here you'll see many similar to this, but I'll collect several links and post them up for you so you can do your homework. The feedback sections for not just one but several also shows dissapointment.

The part I bolded is the only part I agree with you on and that is true those tracks have a history and deserve to be on GT. Spa being my favorite track next to Laguna Seca

 

[kimi123]

They haven't stopped supporting the game. This is one of the few games where people want DLC. Other games already have DLC planned to sell, so that they can make more money. I believe many of these intentionally sell the game in parts with DLC to make more money.

PD are almost turning into EA except the re hashed stuff comes out each decade! They are never going to loose customers just like EA never does with the big franchises like Fifa which with every installment barely changes. As you said die hard fan will always buy the game regardless and PD is complacent because of this.... that and the fact there is no direct competitor on the same console.

Its a real shame because with a few more staff and less treating the game like 'art' it could be so much more.



I personally wouldn't call any update GT5 has had so far as substantial, its just been fixing and tweaking. New cars, tracks is substantial.

The standard cars are basically free. If they wanted they could sell GT4 HD with those 800 cars and made millions and sold GT5 as 200+ cars. This way they would make more money.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

I don't think Polyphony have lost any GT6 customers just yet; however, I do think those customers are waiting to see how GT6 turns out before they commit - I'm one, and I think there are plenty more.

GT6 simply needs to be more logical: none of those outdated design choices and ridiculous amount of menu prompts.

No more rehashing of the same tedious, tired, boring and broken game design. Improved customisation, tuning and modifcation options are needed as well

And that's it. It's not like GT is completely beyond repair. It could be easily repaired. The question is do Polyphony know how to fix it? I hope so. I enjoy GT, and want to continue playing the franchise for a long time, but I just can't support a franchise that is so wholly out of date and missing crucial and important features. Hopefully GT6 resolves all this.

I totally aggree with you

But something tells me that PD will never change. They know how to make a racing games physics feel good and model cars photorealisticall, but they don`t know how to really improve a game.

Yes, flame me. In the late 90s, GT1 and GT2 were awesome, no doubt about it. But except very few examples, no game from that period was complex as a modern game from our current times. Both of this games would feel like simple handheld games today, actually they are in the form of GTPSP.
GT3 and GT4 moved the game on, in term of physics, car roster and graphics. But the gameplay still stayed the same, for me it always felt the same. Ok, never change a running system. But how on earth can it be that even in the year 2011 I am unable to play in splitscreen and race with my friends against the AI?
They tried to improve the game itself, with things like the new XP System. But this was implemented poorly and the idea is outdated too, feels more like a poor mmorpg feature which only forces players to grind alot. Then the new paint chip system. Which idiot came up with this idea? During all these years, they weren`t able to deliver us a proper livery editor, something like the simple livery editor from Grid would have been enough. Day/Night transistion was a good idea, but it only works on very few tracks, just like rain.

Now ask yourself, how much did GT change from GT1 to GT5?

Im maybe alone with my opinion, but the only useful feature -except online gaming of course- they added was the cockpit view. "Why" you may ask, its just a camera view, right? When you drive premium from the cockpit view and turn the Hud off, the game feels totally different. For me it doesn`t feels like a game anymore. The effect becomes greater when driving a race car.

Well, I dont know, but I will hesitate to buy the next game made by PD and wait to read some reviews by fans.

 

[Spagetti69]

The standard cars are basically free. If they wanted they could sell GT4 HD with those 800 cars and made millions and sold GT5 as 200+ cars. This way they would make more money.

You wouldn't get past the truck race though!

 

[mr_serious]

No lie. Waah waah waah.
But after nine months of hatred, if you're still playing it, and still here, then I think you're fibbing about something. You don't hate it, the issues aren't so bad you've thrown the game into the closet or sold it, you will be buying GT6...

I come here to look at the shift2 forums and only poke my head into the GT forum to see if they have fixed this mis-sold, dull & broken game yet.

I haven't put GT5 in the machine for months, in fact I think I put it in once in the last 6 months when we had a group of guests round so we had a time trial competition on the Top gear test track. In fact I struggled to find the game for ten minutes when I wanted to quote the back cover for an earlier post.

I come here to complain because I used to enjoy the series and the only thing they really needed to improve was the AI, but instead we get barbie suits and people telling us it is not a racing game, despite every single event in the game being directly racing related.


I would think if you didn't care what us critics think you wouldn't feel the need to write walls of text in response.

 

[Exorcet]

Yeah, these guys who say "GT5 is sufficient as it is - weird issues aside" don't see where competitors like Forza and Shift are taking the racing game.

To be honest, I don't think you even need to consider the competition to find that GT is outdated in a lot of ways. The GT1 racing transmission is better than GT5. On a number of things, they've got backwards.

How long does it take to figure out a proper aerodynamics model where downforce causes drag?

How about brake temperature?

Is a tuneable ECU too far beyond imagination?

The graphics and physics have continually improved at least, but everything else has pretty much stagnated. And of the things that have consistently improved, I think that one has been given way too much attention (graphics).