Do we really need AI?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kazuyam
  • 40 comments
  • 2,761 views

Do we need those AI blokes (I guess no)

  • NO, remove those idiots finally. PD never got them right anyway, and won't in the future. Just give

    Votes: 5 7.5%

  • Actually no, but we need a yes option to have a democratic poll, so click here for yes

    Votes: 62 92.5%
  • Total voters
    67
K

kazuyam

Messages
302
Messages
kazuyam
Now, that the AI has been 'fixed' and the opponents you get in each race are more 'comprehensible' with 1.06 then before, I have come to the conclusion that the AI is absolutely nonsense. (oh ho, welcome to the club, I guess)
For example, I'm driving the 908. I choose an arcade race, and finally I can race against other 908 cars driven by the AI. But, to my surprise, I'm about half a minute faster then they are after one lap. And no, it's not my racing abbility. To be honest I'm pritty bad at racing, so I guess you guys could even outperform them even easier.
Actually I am even cheating in favor of the AI. To get the 908 as opponent when driving a 908, you have to use a full tuned 908. Later on I remove the Turbo Stage 3, before starting the race to get back to the stock 908 specs.
Same with Super GT. I really have to put some tons of extra weight and reduce hp to have a 'balanced fight' at the Super GT event.

poll: do we need AI or skip those blokes for pure online racing, similar to iracing, for example specific events like Super GT only

yes/no
 
Doubt you'll ever see that happen with a console racer (let alone GT5).
 
If they were to remove AI and set up an online system similar to iRacing, they'd also have to set up a much better penalty system, and a safety rating, etc.

The market for GT5 is much different than that of PC sims.

AI needs to stay, it just needs to be better.
 
Yes. Not everyone likes playing online so the AI are essential for offline play.
 
Yes, we really need AI. Part of the charm of GT series is the offline aspect of it. Everything's going all online only these days, every game has to have an online element. Sometimes the simple pleasure of offline gaming is what I want.

If they hypothetically removed AI, there would be no offline aspect to the game. The AI (no matter how bad) are needed for offline racing. And sometimes, just sometimes - you can have a challenging race on your hands.
 
The point is, in GT5 the AI opponents are no match as long as you use comparable cars, not to mention the possibility to use overpowered car against weak AI.
 
kazuyam
The point is, in GT5 the AI opponents are no match as long as you use comparable cars, not to mention the possibility to use overpowered car against weak AI.
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Protip #1: Use a car that'll make the A.I challenging. Problem solved.
Protip #2: Don't use an overpowered car - obviously you're going to win.
 
blue_thunder
Protip #1: Use a car that'll make the A.I challenging. Problem solved.
Protip #2: Don't use an overpowered car - obviously you're going to win.
Click to expand...

Using a Super GT300 against GT500 for a challenge isn't realistic.
Using a 908 against an AI 908 results in an epic fail... ...for the AI
Actually you are even allowed by PD to use overpowered cars in the seasonal events. The first seasonal events were really cool, where you were forced to drive with tuning restrictions. This was really a welcomed improvement but PD no longer sticks to this.
 
kazuyam
Using a Super GT300 against GT500 for a challenge isn't realistic.
Using a 908 against an AI 908 results in an epic fail... ...for the AI
Actually you are even allowed by PD to use overpowered cars in the seasonal events. The first seasonal events were really cool, where you were forced to drive with tuning restrictions. This was really a welcomed improvement but PD no longer sticks to this.
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Why don't you just try and complete the seasonal event with a stock (or moderately tuned if needed) car. No one is forcing you to tune. The game is as challenging as you make it.
 
Using a GT300 vs GT500 is realistic, as stated you can implement your own restrictions and if the point was to say the AI sucks, it's been said before. Why not wish for improvement rather than the elimination of half of the game?

If the game lost single player there would be a large hit taken on the sales.
 
Having typical opponents button that shows what cars are racing allows for a more challenging race if a typical car is chosen.

Most of the problem with the AI is with early braking, their pace in the straights and their racing line is not that bad, if they could be a little less early on the brakes that alone would reduce their lap times.

The benefit of AI is that they are consistent. some people may be quicker but not always consistent. The whole late braking, using you as a bollard for instant braking, or leaning on you and putting you into the dirt is not very good.

AI is slow but I would be more annoyed with rough racing/stock car racing that sometimes happens online
 
1) You need an AI. Period. Not everyone has access to online racing 24/7. That alone is all the reason that's needed to include an AI.

2) The AI still has major problems, though. And I've said it before: If you're using, say, a GT300 car to make a race against the AI in GT500 cars interesting, that's not racing. That's running circles around idiots who can't corner, only to let them stream past you on the straight.

3) Alternatively, give me sone time attacks where I'm not out on the track with the AI... Paid ones.
 
That is what I wanted from GT5 personally was GT4 but with a truly revolutionary, challenging AI. That's what I hoped they were working on all those years!
 
kazuyam
Now, that the AI has been 'fixed' and the opponents you get in each race are more 'comprehensible' with 1.06 then before, I have come to the conclusion that the AI is absolutely nonsense. (oh ho, welcome to the club, I guess)
For example, I'm driving the 908. I choose an arcade race, and finally I can race against other 908 cars driven by the AI. But, to my surprise, I'm about half a minute faster then they are after one lap. And no, it's not my racing abbility. To be honest I'm pritty bad at racing, so I guess you guys could even outperform them even easier.
Actually I am even cheating in favor of the AI. To get the 908 as opponent when driving a 908, you have to use a full tuned 908. Later on I remove the Turbo Stage 3, before starting the race to get back to the stock 908 specs.
Same with Super GT. I really have to put some tons of extra weight and reduce hp to have a 'balanced fight' at the Super GT event.

poll: do we need AI or skip those blokes for pure online racing, similar to iracing, for example specific events like Super GT only

yes/no
Click to expand...


Tires people Tires! they make a bigger difference than you might think.







DAVE
 
Daverytimes
Tires people Tires! they make a bigger difference than you might think.







DAVE
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Racing on Comfort Softs so that the AI can keep up in cars with more power and better handling than your car's?

How about pausing on the starting grid for, like, 10 seconds a lap? Or playing with the brakes jammed to 50%? Oh, no, a better idea: Limit yourself to only using three gears!
Driving with your eyes closed, just by ear could also work!

You know, there's a point when limiting yourself becomes just silly.
Fighting a three year old doesn't all of a sudden become an interesting match just because you tied both arms to your back.
 
What about those people without internet connections?

Currently, I have an internet connection that doesn't entirely work with my PS3 (i.e. they are blocked - workarounds like bridging the connection through my laptop work, but the connection times out periodically, making it impossible even to download the latest update).

And sometimes I just want to play offline i.e. when i'm doing an all nighter. I did this many times in GT5 prologue and it used to take 30+ minutes to get a match, with one other driver, only for him to quit the event halway in if he's not winning.

If GT never had AI (And therefore no offline mode) I would not buy it. Simples.
 
If PD removed the AI, a lot of people would be very annoyed, me included. The AI aren't perfect but they are essential to offline play. I would much rather race against the AI offline than race against 10 year olds online who have no idea what fair racing is and who think the Bugatti Veyron is the greatest thing ever made. Not to mention, many people still don't have good enough internet connections to play online. It would be a bad idea to get rid of the AI, all they need to do is improve the AI.

Wow, that post looked quite confrontational, I didn't mean that to happen. I'm just annoyed by this whole "offline isn't important" culture that we're currently experiencing.
 
X-Power
Wow, that post looked quite confrontational, I didn't mean that to happen. I'm just annoyed by this whole "offline isn't important" culture that we're currently experiencing.
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👍
 
I've been playing racing sim's for over 15yrs now (man my eyes are getting tired) and I consider myself a competent driver. In arcade mode, on highest difficulty, car for car I struggle to win. That is if I keep my driving clean and use the stock tyres the came comes with. Bash and crash my way through I'll be in the lead by the 2nd corner, or put on sticky tyres and I'll have the lead in 1 lap. But keep it even and clean and the AI are brilliant.
 
The AI isn't all that great, but it beats the hell out of Online mode with strangers (patch 1.05 era).

I play A-Spec for driving pleasure and basically ignore the AI, although there are maybe 3 "difficult" A-Spec events.
 
onearmbandit
I've been playing racing sim's for over 15yrs now (man my eyes are getting tired) and I consider myself a competent driver. In arcade mode, on highest difficulty, car for car I struggle to win. That is if I keep my driving clean and use the stock tyres the came comes with. Bash and crash my way through I'll be in the lead by the 2nd corner, or put on sticky tyres and I'll have the lead in 1 lap. But keep it even and clean and the AI are brilliant.
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What i've noticed (At least in version 1.0) is that the AI is very competent on Comfort and Sports Hard tyres. But from Sports Medium all the way to Racing softs, the AI gets progressively slower in comparison to you.

If you use sports hard tyres or lower, and an equal car to the opposition, the race is going to be a challenge. If you're the sort of person who whacks racing tyres on everything in sight, you're going to win everything by quite a distance.
 
X-Power
Wow, that post looked quite confrontational, I didn't mean that to happen. I'm just annoyed by this whole "offline isn't important" culture that we're currently experiencing.
Click to expand...
👍👍
 
onearmbandit
I've been playing racing sim's for over 15yrs now (man my eyes are getting tired) and I consider myself a competent driver. In arcade mode, on highest difficulty, car for car I struggle to win. That is if I keep my driving clean and use the stock tyres the came comes with. Bash and crash my way through I'll be in the lead by the 2nd corner, or put on sticky tyres and I'll have the lead in 1 lap. But keep it even and clean and the AI are brilliant.
Click to expand...

Haven't played with 1.06 yet, but you do realise that the cars the AI gets are fairly overpowered in Arcade Mode on preofessional setting by default, right?

Using the same cars as the AI, I could run ~15 seconds a lap faster than the car I'm using in said race. On stock tyres for both, that is.

A car that's 15 seconds faster around the 'Ring than what I am using - how much more of an advantage do they need?
 
The best racing will always be found against humans- period. Let me qualify that opinion, found against humans who acknowledge through the way they race, similar rules of driving etiquette. For that reason, if GT5 wants to be a great RACING title, it must have a robust online race offering.

That said, AI is very important to console racers (although less so than it used to be since the addition of the online option.) It isn't always possible to find an online race which meets with the interests of the player. AI is required to have any kind of single player mode . . . as much as some like time trials, you can't have that alone and call it a career.

I have high hopes for the AI improvements in update 1.06. The pre-update AI feels 1980, robotic, stale. I'd like to see a balance of great driving, risk-taking and mistakes from the AI . . . so it feels like driving against your mates.

The AI update will be trash if computer cars still insist on turning into you after you outbrake them into a corner on the inside, or drift into your line on a straight- like you aren't even there.
 
To the OP:
I don't race online.
For me, this game would be complete garbage without the AI. Why do you want to destroy my fun?
 
Yeah, buddy not everyone plays online. So if YOU don't want to race these "idiots" then YOU don't have to play A-spec.
 
I have to say, the only thing that I look forward to in Special Events are the payouts. A-Spec in this game is not fun, and it's not realistic. Starting from last and going to 1st place within 3 laps means the AI drivers are intended to be trash. They just drive like robots and have no reaction to what you're doing whatsoever. How people can enjoy doing this for hours on end I have no clue. And there's never any time trials, pole positions, etc. You start from 5th place every time. A-Spec is trash.
 
Luminis
Racing on Comfort Softs so that the AI can keep up in cars with more power and better handling than your car's?

How about pausing on the starting grid for, like, 10 seconds a lap? Or playing with the brakes jammed to 50%? Oh, no, a better idea: Limit yourself to only using three gears!
Driving with your eyes closed, just by ear could also work!

You know, there's a point when limiting yourself becomes just silly.
Fighting a three year old doesn't all of a sudden become an interesting match just because you tied both arms to your back.
Click to expand...

Yet no one has a problem running soft racing tires online with the room labeled "Street cars only". The biggest factor in GT5 between street car vs Racing cars is the tires. It's not very often I see "street cars" racing online with tire restrictions. Everyone wants to run with super-glue tires and obvious feels like you do if you pick anything less than it limiting yourself.
Use lower tires doesn't keep you from actually driving the car around the track (like pausing on the track for 10 seconds or closing your eyes,etc ) you just can't go in and come out of the corners as fast. AI has to have some kind of advantage over the player since AI can't learn and adapt like the player can.
 
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