Do women succeed in GT7?

[newmedia_dev]

Let’s just really frame this correctly:

Can anyone perform at the top level of racing.

Yes, this not gender specific.

The formula one coverage in Europe for sky includes 7 front line presenters 3 being internationally ranked racing and one of theM delivering strategy for Aston Martin (Bearnie Collins) that’s 4 women who know more than you or I and probably 99% of this forum.

To be utterly frank, this topic is regressive for a whole load of reasons, but OP you want help to gold some circuit experiences that women have done already.…:/ (that’s really annoying) that gender is mentioned when you don’t even dominate your own gender? Why care or ask if you aren’t that good anyways?

There are 4 women on my leaderboard who place in the top 1000 or 500, 2 of them can go much much further than that.

These are 4 people I know, respect and are faster than me and don’t trade on their gender.

Whilst it’s fun for a second, you gold all the CE’s get that A+ rating and then have something remotely realistic to talk about.

Remember there is over 100,000 MSA registered women racers at all levels and you struggle to do some circuit experiences.

Focus on you mate.

 

[Lightpilgrim]

Very curious if everyone sees my initial post and every single post in this thread the same way as you: “Me belittling capabilities of female drivers”. If yes, then indeed I need to carefully analyze myself, my words and intentions. But one thing I agree with…it is always better to say a lot less, ideally nothing. This way noone is able to use your words against you when it suits them:-)

Let’s just really frame this correctly:

Can anyone perform at the top level of racing.

Yes, this not gender specific.

The formula one coverage in Europe for sky includes 7 front line presenters 3 being internationally ranked racing and one of theM delivering strategy for Aston Martin (Bearnie Collins) that’s 4 women who know more than you or I and probably 99% of this forum.

To be utterly frank, this topic is regressive for a whole load of reasons, but OP you want help to gold some circuit experiences that women have done already.…:/ (that’s really annoying) that gender is mentioned when you don’t even dominate your own gender? Why care or ask if you aren’t that good anyways?

There are 4 women on my leaderboard who place in the top 1000 or 500, 2 of them can go much much further than that.

These are 4 people I know, respect and are faster than me and don’t trade on their gender.

Whilst it’s fun for a second, you gold all the CE’s get that A+ rating and then have something remotely realistic to talk about.

Remember there is over 100,000 MSA registered women racers at all levels and you struggle to do some circuit experiences.

Focus on you mate.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Very curious if everyone sees my initial post and every single post in this thread the same way as you: “Me belittling capabilities of female drivers”. If yes, then indeed I need to carefully analyze myself, my words and intentions. But one thing I agree with…it is always better to say a lot less, ideally nothing. This way noone is able to use your words against you when it suits them:-)

The way I see it, is I’ll let my daughter do karting or racing or horse riding.

What I won’t do is limit them by gender or other people’s perception of gender.

Can you throw a javelin as far as the female Olympic champion? Can you do an iron man faster than a female Olympic champion?

Can you drive as fast as 99% of the top women drivers?

Worry about you mate don’t worry about everyone else. And you are more than welcome to use my words against me. I have a daughter and she is not limited by how much I believe and support her, she is limited by people that need help doing circuit experiences and worrying what women are doing.

Just do you mate.

 

[Met Entso]

Nowadays we can't even talk about this topic, but if you want, search for psychological studies about gender differences. But even some of those are biased (in both directions). To eliminate cultural/environment influence, there are very interesting studies with babies that are weeks old.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Nowadays we can't even talk about this topic, but if you want, search for psychological studies about gender differences. But even some of those are biased (in both directions). To eliminate cultural/environment influence, there are very interesting studies with babies that are weeks old.

Or we can just look at the results of all the competitions. 🤷‍♂️

And talk about the results not weather they are women.

The things that hold women back is men talking about it.

Really annoying, a whole bunch of you or middle age men, you should no better or just be better :/

My 11 year old daughter looked at this thread and said “nah, this isn’t right”

I agree with her.

All of this feels weird poison. Especially when the Op knows so little about racing and people who race.

Another reason to leave here

 

[Lomic]

Let’s just really frame this correctly:

Can anyone perform at the top level of racing.

Yes, this not gender specific.

The formula one coverage in Europe for sky includes 7 front line presenters 3 being internationally ranked racing and one of theM delivering strategy for Aston Martin (Bearnie Collins) that’s 4 women who know more than you or I and probably 99% of this forum.

To be utterly frank, this topic is regressive for a whole load of reasons, but OP you want help to gold some circuit experiences that women have done already.…:/ (that’s really annoying) that gender is mentioned when you don’t even dominate your own gender? Why care or ask if you aren’t that good anyways?

There are 4 women on my leaderboard who place in the top 1000 or 500, 2 of them can go much much further than that.

These are 4 people I know, respect and are faster than me and don’t trade on their gender.

Whilst it’s fun for a second, you gold all the CE’s get that A+ rating and then have something remotely realistic to talk about.

Remember there is over 100,000 MSA registered women racers at all levels and you struggle to do some circuit experiences.

Focus on you mate.

Now that you skillfuly poisoned the well, the thread is dead, good job 😅

But I'd say it was bound to happen given the sensitive subject, despite @Lightpilgrim's efforts, and I think, genuine curiosity.

 

[Chris30]

Everyone in here forgetting Abbie Eaton exists.

Shame on you all!

No, I think it's Abbie Pulling, and here is the proof to back up my thesis.

An awkward thread but no one has ever asked this kind of question? Even for NASCAR events.

 

[daan]

No, I think it's Abbie Pulling, and here is the proof to back up my thesis.


View attachment 1456364

An awkward thread but no one has ever asked this kind of question? Even for NASCAR events.

No, Abbie Eaton is Abbie Eaton, and not Abbi Pulling.

Abbie Eaton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mafio]

Poor title choice, you might want to put this one back in the oven for a bit. Im going to use a metaphor now: If you have to explain a joke, its probably not a good one. The fact that you felt like you needed to say "Just to be clear, this isn’t about superiority or inferiority", is very telling.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Im going to use a metaphor now: If you have to explain a joke, its probably not a good one.

This is not a metaphor.

 

[Mafio]

This is not a metaphor.

No its not but it was used a metaphor.

 

[Hollow]

No its not but it was used a metaphor.

 

[Lightpilgrim]

I took the time to read everything again and ask myself if there was anything in the title, topic, or tone that might've triggered the reaction I got. I found nothing. I can’t account for how every person—regardless of age, gender, or background—might interpret something. But if something was unclear or misread, there’s a way to sort it. A simple message like:
“Hey, I’ve got an 11-year-old daughter who wants to race. Here’s what she’s up against…”
That’s a conversation. That’s how you move things forward.

Instead, my message was taken as a threat—and met with personal shots about my inexperience or not finishing certain CEs. That’s fine. I’m not offended. I know where I stand. I’m learning, I’ve got a long way to go, and I respect the hell out of people who are already there.

I don’t question anyone’s talent—man or woman. I believe in equal opportunity, full stop. I’ve always backed female talent and will continue to do so. In fact, I go out of my way to work with people—men and women—who see the world differently. That’s how you build a better team. You see more, you do more.

My intention was simple: understand how big sim racing is among women, connect, learn, and grow from it. That’s it.

Now, I don’t believe in pretending gender differences don’t exist. They do. And honestly, that’s a good thing—we’re drawn to those differences. But I’ll always fight for equal chances and help break down anything that keeps someone from competing or winning.

Case closed. Drive safe. I’m off to tackle more Circuit Experiences.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I took the time to read everything again and ask myself if there was anything in the title, topic, or tone that might've triggered the reaction I got. I found nothing. I can’t account for how every person—regardless of age, gender, or background—might interpret something. But if something was unclear or misread, there’s a way to sort it. A simple message like:
“Hey, I’ve got an 11-year-old daughter who wants to race. Here’s what she’s up against…”
That’s a conversation. That’s how you move things forward.

The title of the thread picks out a gender and what they can achieve in a game that this sub forum is about.

You might want to comprehend what you wrote a little better.

“Can women” is not the best opener, top tip.

Instead, my message was taken as a threat—and met with personal shots about my inexperience or not finishing certain CEs. That’s fine. I’m not offended. I know where I stand. I’m learning, I’ve got a long way to go, and I respect the hell out of people who are already there.

You message was taken exactly how it was, a curious man judging women’s ability at the top end of motorsport. You aren’t at the top end of motorsport nor are you a woman and if you are a woman you are not at the top end of motorsport.

I don’t question anyone’s talent—man or woman. I believe in equal opportunity, full stop. I’ve always backed female talent and will continue to do so. In fact, I go out of my way to work with people—men and women—who see the world differently. That’s how you build a better team. You see more, you do more.

This whole thing is ouch. Support performance and team colours.

The reason gender is a thing is because people who aren’t even in the racing space week to week or grass roots bring up this stuff.

My intention was simple: understand how big sim racing is among women, connect, learn, and grow from it. That’s it.

Then rephrase your question “women of sim racing, how do you feel and how is sim racing, do you feel weaker against other people racing at a desk or in their bed room?”

Be absolutely honest with yourself if your sister did gymnastics or swimming etc would you even remotely ask this stuff?

Now, I don’t believe in pretending gender differences don’t exist. They do. And honestly, that’s a good thing—we’re drawn to those differences. But I’ll always fight for equal chances and help break down anything that keeps someone from competing or winning.

Case closed. Drive safe. I’m off to tackle more

You believe that?

Wow

Edit: @Lomic

This was poisoning the well but being grown up and realistic about these sort of conversations.

We should have them but I don’t think a bunch of men critiquing women’s contribution to high end motorsport (and arguably GT isn’t even high end sim racing)

So as “well intentioned” this thread appears not one person questioned it and said maybe we should ask some girl racers.

This is a very very low level of misogyny

We can pretend to be all high brow about it but without actually asking the actual people….you see the problem.

 

[peniu]

The title of the thread picks out a gender and what they can achieve in a game that this sub forum is about.

You might want to comprehend what you wrote a little better.

“Can women” is not the best opener, top tip.

As far as I can tell the title does not start with "can women" so it seems a bit futile to get angry about thread title that you misread.

 

[zeltus]

Super dumb thread.

There is academic research. it is rude to discuss, and rightfully taboo. Use ChatGPT or Grok to educate yourself if that conflicts with your worldview. But after quietly learning...learn to STFU.

Even the OP knows enough to know this can't be discussed candidly and thus front-loads all the apologies, etc.

It's rude to discuss. Lock the thread, and maintain some decorum. Be better.

 

[newmedia_dev]

As far as I can tell the title does not start with "can women" so it seems a bit futile to get angry about thread title that you misread.

Do women succeed in GT7​

Ok, I’ll take a little paraphrasing on that.

“Do Women” isn’t actually better than “Can Women”

It is a bit futile that a whole bunch of men discuss what women do without actually involving them?

And cite them yet 99.99% of this thread or contributors are close to the level of the women they mention.

Back in your boxes people, women have a hard enough time, a bunch of blokes discussing it doesn’t make it better.

What is wrong with you people.

The point and absolute question should be:

Is sim racing accessible to all genders?

Does gender matter in a digital age? Where extreme forces aren’t a thing?

If we want to discuss these things then do a bit more that just pose a question, and involve a few people from the other side to comment.

As “well intentioned” it was it’s one dimensional.

A simple message like:
“Hey, I’ve got an 11-year-old daughter who wants to race. Here’s what she’s up against…”
That’s a conversation. That’s how you move things forward.

Instead, my message was taken as a threat—and met with personal shots about my inexperience or not finishing certain CEs. That’s fine. I’m not offended. I know where I stand. I’m learning, I’ve got a long way to go, and I respect the hell out of people who are already there.

She’s up against threads titled like this, it’s difficult to move the conversation forward when you worry about gender performance.

Don’t be offended, just saying there are a lot of faster women than you on the leaderboards. That is who I show my daughter those women.

So while you are learning don’t you think you need to worry about you and not how women do? It’s just weird that you aren’t confident or fast in and of yourself but want to talk about another genders performance?

 

[peniu]

Super dumb thread.

There is academic research. it is rude to discuss, and rightfully taboo. Use ChatGPT or Grok to educate yourself if that conflicts with your worldview. But after quietly learning...learn to STFU.

Even the OP knows enough to know this can't be discussed candidly and thus front-loads all the apologies, etc.

It's rude to discuss. Lock the thread, and maintain some decorum. Be better.

Since you asked to use ChatGPT to educate ourselves I did.

I then fed it with opening post to learn if it was rude or not.

So, if we are using ChatGPT as the judge, the first post is not rude but "could be potentially considered clumsy or naive". However, while the ChatGPT indicates it could be written in a more sensitive way, I would argue the OP is (most likely ) not a chatbot taught on thousands of texts, so it is only fair to assume he meant no harm by his wording.

 

[newmedia_dev]

So the upshot is a poorly phrased topic by an uninformed protagonist (OP)

That was always going to be really weird when a whole bunch of bedroom gamers start judging and mentioning real world women racers who literally spend money and risk their lives to be judged on how well girls can play a computer game where the most popular camera is bumper cam.

I don’t know if the OP is the most naive here.

 

[peniu]

So the upshot is a poorly phrased topic by an uninformed protagonist (OP)

That was always going to be really weird when a whole bunch of bedroom gamers start judging and mentioning real world women racers who literally spend money and risk their lives to be judged on how well girls can play a computer game where the most popular camera is bumper cam.

I don’t know if the OP is the most naive here.

I myself do not have any intention to discuss any gender related topics in here, but I find it a amusing how you are getting annoyed about generalizations and insensitiveness in this topic and move on with throwing everyone here into the same bucket, while using ad personam/hominem arguments yourself.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I myself do not have any intention to discuss any gender related topics in here, but I find it a amusing how you are getting annoyed about generalizations and insensitiveness in this topic and move on with throwing everyone here into the same bucket, while using ad personam/hominem arguments yourself.

Then why are you commenting on a thread that specifically talks about gender performance? With chat GPT input as well?

People are quoting real women as top performers, while not being top performers themselves and the the thread is titled…

You are facilitating pointless posts. Men rating women racers?

Gamers rating real women who race cars in real life.

Now reconcile that with the thread title and debating different women’s names.

This is not the optimum GT7 forum topic is it.

Edit: minor grammar/spelling

 

[peniu]

Then why are you commenting on a thread that specifically talks about gender performance? With chat GPT input as well?

Last I checked I am free to comment on threads I want to and you know very well that ChatGPT was used in response to the user who specifically asked to use it.

People are quoting real women as top performers, while not being top performers themselves and the the thread is titled…

You are facilitating pointless posts. Men rating women racers?

Gamers rating real women who race cars in real life.

Now reconcile that with the thread title and debating different women’s names.

This is not the optimum GT7 forum topic is it.

Edit: minor grammar/spelling

You don't need to be a Michelin starred restaurant chef to rate a dish, nor do any of forum users need to be a professional racing driver to rate Max Verstappen's career or latest race. Or any other racing driver's for that matter, regardless of driver's and forum user's gender.

I do not see how giving examples of women competing at high level in GT7 or real life is offensive towards them. If it wasn't for this thread I would not know about some of them and I think it helps to see such examples to strengthen the feeling that there really isn't any gender barrier to succeed.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Last I checked I am free to comment on threads I want to and you know very well that ChatGPT was used in response to the user who specifically asked to use it.

Last time I checked you are replying to my free ability to comment on threads that use ChatGPT.

Maybe we should check again??? Or being A FORUM we are all free to post because that’s WHAT A FORUM IS….

But replying is your right and expected 👍

You don't need to be a Michelin starred restaurant chef to rate a dish, nor do any of forum users need to be a professional racing driver to rate Max Verstappen's career or latest race. Or any other racing driver's for that matter, regardless of driver's and forum user's gender.

It kinda of helps when talking about the performance or glass ceiling for women racers that you actually ask a few of them? Them being female racers :/

The reality is, that everyone single person on this thread isn’t a professional racer and this is 99.99% male yet the women posted are all professional or career racers :/

I do not see how giving examples of women competing at high level in GT7 or real life is offensive towards them. If it wasn't for this thread I would not know about some of them and I think it helps to see such examples to strengthen the feeling that there really isn't any gender barrier to succeed.

Honestly mate, honestly “them” “if it wasn’t for this thread”

Those words are the problem and you don’t even understand why.

 

[BudgielovesF1]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the thoughtful discussion so far—this is a sensitive topic, and I appreciate how it’s being handled. Just to be clear: I’m not making any claims about superiority, inferiority, or who’s better at what. I’m simply sharing perspectives and curiosity about differences that may exist between genders in the context of motorsports and sim racing.

First point: I mentioned an opinion from a former Renault F1 team principal—this came from a direct conversation I had with him. He highlighted the intense physical demands of Formula One, suggesting that physical predisposition plays a role. I’m not in a position to judge that myself, but it’s worth noting when someone from inside the sport shares it.

Second: Someone brought up competitiveness and gender. It’s possible that, biologically, men may lean more toward highly competitive behavior—testosterone and all that. Even in “friendly” Gran Turismo races, we all still watch the leaderboard. That said, it doesn’t mean women aren’t competitive—it might just not be as central, or sim racing might not be as appealing on average.

That brings me to my main curiosity:
How many women are actually racing in Gran Turismo?
What’s the gender split here and on the leaderboards? I’d genuinely love to hear from women in the community—what draws you to (or away from) sim racing?

We’re seeing more women entering motorsport roles—from drivers to strategists like Hanna at Red Bull, and leaders like Susie Wolff. So things are evolving, which is great to see.

Again, just sharing a point of view—not debating. Thanks for keeping it respectful.

Cheers

I honestly agree with you and I believe woman should be included if they want to get into the sport. Though it is a male fielded sport, woman are still included in ways they can still be noticed, whether they’re in the team mechanics side or a drivers engineer like Esteban Ocon’s engineer (Laura Mueller). But besides the fact men can be competitive, woman still have to right to like what they want and support who they want to based on their likings and dislikings.

Stay strong Motorsport girlies! We all love you being included in the motorsports world!

-Budgie

 

[Tommy_D]

A woman can definitely race in F1 if she's good enough.

Nope. And it's not a chauvinistic thing to say. The level of G-forces put on to an F1 driver's body, the level of upper body strength to physically hold the wheel at high downforce and high g-force turns requires elite levels of physical strength and endurance. Now, women should be able to beat out men in weight and lower body strength (which is a great advantage), but if the upper body strength can't hold the wheel and steer the car going full tilt through the entirety of the race, their pace will have to slow down so they don't crash. I do believe, however, that women could perform well for a period of time against men in an F1 race. A woman could likely set a fastest lap, but the physicality of driving an F1 vehicle over a 90-minute race will begin to show in their lap times as they begin to slow down from fatigue.

There was a big flare up when John McEnroe said that Serena Williams couldn't compete in men's tennis. People all got pissed off because they thought he was against women or somehow putting her down. Serena had this to say about how she would perform playing against a man:


There are plenty of sports where women can compete against men and be not only competitive, but flat out better than men. But for sports that demand great physical strength and endurance to perform at the most elite level, men perform better. It's not sexism. It's not about being chauvinistic. It's just biology.

 

[newmedia_dev]

@Tommy_D

“Biology” 🤣

This is farcical now.

 

[Nebuc72]

Nope. And it's not a chauvinistic thing to say. The level of G-forces put on to an F1 driver's body, the level of upper body strength to physically hold the wheel at high downforce and high g-force turns requires elite levels of physical strength and endurance. Now, women should be able to beat out men in weight and lower body strength (which is a great advantage), but if the upper body strength can't hold the wheel and steer the car going full tilt through the entirety of the race, their pace will have to slow down so they don't crash. I do believe, however, that women could perform well for a period of time against men in an F1 race. A woman could likely set a fastest lap, but the physicality of driving an F1 vehicle over a 90-minute race will begin to show in their lap times as they begin to slow down from fatigue.

There was a big flare up when John McEnroe said that Serena Williams couldn't compete in men's tennis. People all got pissed off because they thought he was against women or somehow putting her down. Serena had this to say about how she would perform playing against a man:


There are plenty of sports where women can compete against men and be not only competitive, but flat out better than men. But for sports that demand great physical strength and endurance to perform at the most elite level, men perform better. It's not sexism. It's not about being chauvinistic. It's just biology.

Man this is silly. There's a ton of women fighter pilots eating a boatload of G's - this whole post seems a very reductive way of looking at women.

You really think that they "can't hold the wheel and steer the car" after a grand total of Ninety minutes?
Women are human, just because they're women doesn't mean they're made of paper.
And the support for this is the fact a man can hit a tennis racket a bit harder? That's kind of crazy dude.

 

[Scaff]

Nope. And it's not a chauvinistic thing to say. The level of G-forces put on to an F1 driver's body, the level of upper body strength to physically hold the wheel at high downforce and high g-force turns requires elite levels of physical strength and endurance. Now, women should be able to beat out men in weight and lower body strength (which is a great advantage), but if the upper body strength can't hold the wheel and steer the car going full tilt through the entirety of the race, their pace will have to slow down so they don't crash. I do believe, however, that women could perform well for a period of time against men in an F1 race. A woman could likely set a fastest lap, but the physicality of driving an F1 vehicle over a 90-minute race will begin to show in their lap times as they begin to slow down from fatigue.

Odd that women can somehow manage running for over the length of an F1 race at high g's in Endurance racing, and do so for repeated stints over a 24-hour period.

It also utterly ignores the number of women who have raced in Indy car, a series that gets damn close to F1 levels of g-forces, runs long enough races to compare and has zero power steering (unlike F1).

There was a big flare up when John McEnroe said that Serena Williams couldn't compete in men's tennis. People all got pissed off because they thought he was against women or somehow putting her down. Serena had this to say about how she would perform playing against a man:

News Flash!!!! F1 is not Tennis Shocker.

There are plenty of sports where women can compete against men and be not only competitive, but flat out better than men. But for sports that demand great physical strength and endurance to perform at the most elite level, men perform better. It's not sexism. It's not about being chauvinistic. It's just biology.

F1 doesn't "demand great physical strength" in comparison to a lot of sports, and F1 drivers are not ripped powerhouses of strength, the majority are quite the opposite, and in terms of endurance men and women are pretty compariable, until you get to ultra-endurance, when women actually start to pull ahead.

Now, if you want to look at a motorsport period that did require both physical strength and endurance, look no further than Group B rallying, the majority of which had no power steering, events that ran for days, and very little in way of rest for the drivers. Oh wait, a women came within a hair of winning the WRC championship in that!

 

[GT_brickhole]

I had a personal chat with a former Renault team principal and in his view a woman cannot compete on par with a man in F1 due to physical demands. It sounded very logical.

yawn, the 50's are calling.....


If Danica could compete in Indy car, females can compete in F1... indy cars are more brutal, heavier and have no power steering assist. f1 cars have power steering and are a lot lighter... peak g force may be slightly higher in f1 but i'm sure indy car has a higher sustained g load overall through out the race, not to mention the heavy load of ovals she raced on during her indy car stint. Say what you will about her performances in Indycar (she did pull off a win), and i will give you an endless list of males that have not done as well as she did in indy car.

its all about the money... no one pays a woman to do it because no one has ever paid a woman to do it. because for so long "its been a mans Sport"

also, think of the size of f1 drivers, not much bigger than most women and children.

Also remember. There is no physical aspect to racing that makes you good. There are many of us on this forum that probably have a FASTER REACTION time than Schumacher,Alonso,Hamilton it’s the feeling they have In the car that allows them to go fast. Not reaction time which is usually associated with strength and physicality.


And money

 

[McLaren]

but if the upper body strength can't hold the wheel and steer the car going full tilt through the entirety of the race, their pace will have to slow down so they don't crash.

You mean, it's almost like they'd have to extensively train to do so just like the men do? Man, who would've known....

The goal had always been for Calderon to test an F1 car in 2018 as part of her development role with Sauber. She had been preparing intensively throughout the year, adding nine centimetres to her neck circumference to deal with the stresses of an F1 car, only for Sauber to drop a bombshell just prior to Mexico.

While Calderon is still yet to have any formal confirmation of plans for 2019 regarding her role with Sauber, the noises coming out of the team are positive.

“She did two good tests,” Sauber team boss Frederic Vasseur said. “The first one was more of a PR event in Mexico, but the second one was a real test and she did really well. She is able to manage the situation on the physical side, that probably, in this case in F2, is more difficult without power steering.

How Tatiana Calderon continues to crack motorsport’s glass ceiling

It was perhaps cheeky to ask Tatiana Calderon to sum up the month of her life prior to our chat in Abu Dhabi last month using just a single word.

www.crash.net