Do you guys turn off aids in real life?

[Joey D]

So I guess a Chevy 2500 isin't RWD? If I were to come out of a tight hairpin in 4WD mode, it would take off like a rocket. The same turn in 2WD would still get me pointed in the right direction, it would just take longer to get up to speed. And especially in the snow, it will have a fair amount of grip due to the weight.

A 4WD system on a truck is pretty different than an AWD system on a car. There is no way a truck with 4WD could rocket out of a corner no matter what aids you had, you would have horrible understeer and if you did have stability control on (which trucks can have) you really wouldn't go anywhere.

 

[niky]

Tight turns in 4WD? Unless you're in snow, that would result in some uncomfortable wheel-binding at full lock. There's a reason the manuals tell you not to turn on 4WD unless you're in the snow or mud. Even if you don't experience binding, that locked center differential is not going to be happy.

Heck, on the STI, if you put the differential in its most aggressive position, that causes wheel-binding, too.

-

The perception of point and shoot will depend on how much or how little power you have versus how much grip there is to use it. But in general, RWD is not quite as easy to "point and shoot" as an AWD car.

 

[savage388]

Eek, all seasons have nothing on winter tires. But considering how little snow there was this year, it probably doesen't matter much.

Haven't gotten stuck or spun out yet, but my friends have winters and they can drive almost normal in bad weather when I have to carefully crawl along. Still better than my dads car that weighs 2300 lbs with aggressive all seasons. I don't drive that when it's bad.

 

[Biggamehit]

I never owned a car with aids besides ABS that I quickly pulled the fuse on and uninstalled all the devices that control it. ABS has no place in drifting or time attack. all of my cars are FR.

 

[Joel]

I daily drive a 2003 Corolla, but I sometimes drive my parents' cars, a 2011 Golf TDI wagon, or a 2012 VW Touareg, and before he traded it in for the Touareg, a 2009 Buick Enclave. The Corolla has no driving aids, so I have to be more careful in the snow especially. The VW's and the Buick all have ABS, ASM, TCS, etc etc, and I always left them on. The only time I ever touched them was turning TCS off in very heavy snow on the Enclave.

 

[Azuremen]

So I guess a Chevy 2500 isin't RWD? If I were to come out of a tight hairpin in 4WD mode, it would take off like a rocket. The same turn in 2WD would still get me pointed in the right direction, it would just take longer to get up to speed. And especially in the snow, it will have a fair amount of grip due to the weight.

Front weight bias will make it worse. And as others have said, it wouldn't take off like a rocket.

And truck doesn't handle like a car either. Honestly, you are talking about something you have very little to no experience with.

My M3, a better handling, LSD equipped car on snow tires isn't anything close to point and shoot in the snow. My MR-S was more so, but even then you have to be extremely delicate with the throttle.

 

[Cale]

I don't have aids.

 

[Biggamehit]

I don't have aids.

Come now, you dont have to be shy about it Mr Rude

 

[Bopop4]

Tight turns in 4WD? Unless you're in snow, that would result in some uncomfortable wheel-binding at full lock. There's a reason the manuals tell you not to turn on 4WD unless you're in the snow or mud. Even if you don't experience binding, that locked center differential is not going to be happy.

Heck, on the STI, if you put the differential in its most aggressive position, that causes wheel-binding, too.

-

The perception of point and shoot will depend on how much or how little power you have versus how much grip there is to use it. But in general, RWD is not quite as easy to "point and shoot" as an AWD car.

In the snow yes, I wouldn't want to put that much load on the truck in the dry.
RWD is harder to point and shoot but it can still be done.

The truck will understeer into the hairpin but if you slide in and then continue the slide then the understeer is gone, I'm talking about a very slow hairpin, like going around a cone in a parking lot.

Edit: The truck does accelerate like a "relative" rocket, not as fast as an M3 but it would give the MR-S a good fight.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Turnabouts??
You don't need to drive like an idiot to get ESP working there.

Not in my car. But I understand it could be different in other cars, not all of them give lots of room for playing.

 

[eight6er]

Yup. I think I've only ever felt the rear diff kick in... once... in our CR-V, and that was when we were climbing a sand dune. (Yeah, we could've gotten stuck, but the stuff was packed down hard enough to keep all wheels in contact)



You performed that turn expecting the car to do one thing, without ever verifying that said car would react in the way you expected it to... based on the assumption that a car would lose control in a linear, predictable fashion... without ever having performed that maneuver before.

This is a big, big, BIG no-no.

I test dozens of new cars a year. I can't claim to be a saint, I've hooned a fair bit of them. Probably because I get to test them on the racetrack every October. And the mantra is: Find out how they behave first before you take liberties with them.

When I'm planning to drive hard, I usually work out the personality of a car first. Intrusive traction control? Poor grip? Lack of rear sway bar? Too much rear sway bar? Will the car ultimately understeer when I get through the corner, or does the rear become unstable when I give it a little flick? Those things are important out there.

Whereas here, you glibly attempt a handbrake turn in a car you've never handbrake-turned before expecting it to act exactly like any other car you've handbrake-turned. Duh. Not all handbrakes and cars are equal. If the handbrake is tighter, it slides earlier. If it's just a notch looser, the car initiates much later or not at all. If the front end lacks grip or has funny ABS intervention, it'll roll through the turn and understeer out (in much the same way as you mentioned).

Even experienced drivers can sometimes fail to initiate a handbrake turn in a new car (unless you have lots of space, in which case you can drag on it a bit longer to ensure you really lose rear traction before jinking), because of these factors, and they have to adjust accordingly.

Traction control has nothing to do with it. You attempted to perform a maneuver without understanding how the car would react to it, and it bit you in the rear.

This is the same sort of false expectation that has people swerving into a ditch while braking with ABS... but then, that's down to stupidity... they're over-controlling the car, a situation which would have them plowing straight into the next car without it.



Curbed, spun, flipped... I speak from experience.

I get your point, but I did actually use cation as it was a car I never drove before, hence why I didn't crash. This was a few years ago, I drove new cars every day and that was the first FWD car I had ever driven that had traction control.
If I was going 5 mph it was a lot, so it wasn't driving hard by any stretch of the imagination and the locking of the handbrake had nothing what so ever to do with it, the speed is so slow, I can adapt to the car in the few seconds the move takes, and I could repeat that same move without incident over and over, in a large variety of cars, unless the car has traction control on.

Needless to say, it never happened again as I knew to look for an aids button, even in an economy FWD after that.

 

[oopssorryy]

My two daily drivers, a 92 V6 Camry and my 94 Camry wagon, have no aids at all. Not even ABS. I have locked up the tires under braking (🤬 suicidal bunnies). I have driven cars with ABS, and IMO they ok. I would rather have ABS than not have it, at least in the snow. If your not dealing with snow or heavy rain ABS doesn't really help unless your messing around or dealing with crazy woodland animals. I've never had an experience with TC, but if you know how to drive well, why have it on, unless it is a high powered RWD or you have bad conditions outside. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Edit: The truck does accelerate like a "relative" rocket, not as fast as an M3 but it would give the MR-S a good fight.

I think you underestimate the MR-S. If it had a good driver it would leave you left for dead out of corners.

 

[Eric.]

An MR-S driven by a 16yr old blonde girl and her best friend would leave a HD truck for dead out of a corner.

Probably out of the corner before the truck is off the brake.

 

[oohhh yeah]

Tight turns in 4WD? Unless you're in snow, that would result in some uncomfortable wheel-binding at full lock. There's a reason the manuals tell you not to turn on 4WD unless you're in the snow or mud. Even if you don't experience binding, that locked center differential is not going to be happy.

Heck, on the STI, if you put the differential in its most aggressive position, that causes wheel-binding, too.

-

The perception of point and shoot will depend on how much or how little power you have versus how much grip there is to use it. But in general, RWD is not quite as easy to "point and shoot" as an AWD car.

What is wheel binding? And do you mean when you adjust the driver controlled center differential to "lock," which is 50 front 50 rear? Also, why is RWD not as easy to point and shoot as AWD?

 

[Bopop4]

Wheel binding is when the one of the tires has to travel a farther or shorter distance then another (inside vs outside). Try getting a rule and twist it, that is the binding, and the reason that a kart has to lift its inside rear during corners.

For the truck vs MR-S I meant standing start acceleration, any car with a 3rd the weight of another is obviously going to come out of turns faster.

 

[Azuremen]

For the truck vs MR-S I meant standing start acceleration, any car with a 3rd the weight of another is obviously going to come out of turns faster.

Maybe. And it isn't the weight (my M3 is fast out of corners as well), but just how the car is setup. Look at the GT-R - mass of a small moon, seems to turn well.

 

[oopssorryy]

Your truck has more than double the power of the 130hp MR-S, and like 4-5 times more torque as well. Like Azuremen said, your truck is made for hauling, towing and general labor. The MR-S is made for corners and cruising, so out of the corners the MR-S will be fast, in a straight line drag the MR-S might surprise you, they are said to get great traction off the line, and can be quick off the line.

 

[Bopop4]

Maybe. And it isn't the weight (my M3 is fast out of corners as well), but just how the car is setup. Look at the GT-R - mass of a small moon, seems to turn well.

Yeah, the GT-R goes around the normal sports car ideals. But using extremes the truck can't out corner a car so much lighter than itself.

And it is true that a truck would have 3 times the power of a small sports car, but not many people would expect to get beat at the traffic lights by a truck.
I've heard stories about guys in mustangs and the like getting their doors blown off by diesels.

 

[oopssorryy]

Yeah, the GT-R goes around the normal sports car ideals. But using extremes the truck can't out corner a car so much lighter than itself.

And it is true that a truck would have 3 times the power of a small sports car, but not many people would expect to get beat at the traffic lights by a truck.
I've heard stories about guys in mustangs and the like getting their doors blown off by diesels.

Well, with all the low end torque that some diesels can make it doesn't surprise me. They would loose out eventually, once HP and available revs came into play, but light to light.....

 

[Bopop4]

That's generally how those things go down.
I wouldn't want to go over 100mph in a big truck because of the steering, or lack of it.

 

[savage388]

Even a big block 2500 hd would be quite fast from light to light. Even with all the weight and lack of top end I don't think an mr-s could beat a Dmax unless the 4wd launch busted the front end up which can and will happen because it's not designed for anything close to full throttle launches on asphalt.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

My car has no aids.

 

[Bopop4]

Even a big block 2500 hd would be quite fast from light to light. Even with all the weight and lack of top end I don't think an mr-s could beat a Dmax unless the 4wd launch busted the front end up which can and will happen because it's not designed for anything close to full throttle launches on asphalt.

I think that they go into a limp mode if you do too many hard launches.

 

[savage388]

I think that they go into a limp mode if you do too many hard launches.

If you overheat the trans or something like that, but there's a good bet on snapping an axle or blowing the front diff, especially on the silverado's because they have ifs which isn't known for it's extreme strength.

 

[Bopop4]

One or two launches should be okay, but when you chip it and change the exhaust is when there might be problems.

 

[Eric.]

RE: Top end on a HD truck.

There's a guy around here with an almost new GMC Duramax, quad cab, 4x4, etc. I believe it only has a tuner and maybe cold air, and my friend says it might give his LS2 GTO a run up to 120mph. He's been in it and they buried the speedometer past 120 no problem.

 

[Bopop4]

That thing must have a hell of a launch if it goes faster then 120. I don't think ours could get much past 100, and it has an airbox.(Only about 10hp, but it made it smoother to drive)

 

[savage388]

That thing must have a hell of a launch if it goes faster then 120. I don't think ours could get much past 100, and it has an airbox.(Only about 10hp, but it made it smoother to drive)

Those tuners do absolute magic in diesels. The gains can get ridiculous with the only sacrifice being emissions, but who doesn't like black smoke anyway.

 

[GTMail]

S4- yes aids because street car.
Sky- I tend to keep TCS off unless it is a rainy day. It does take a toll on the tires. $1000 for four fresh ones.

 

[Azuremen]

S4- yes aids because street car.
Sky- I tend to keep TCS off unless it is a rainy day. It does take a toll on the tires. $1000 for four fresh ones.

What size and tires are you running on Sky? Seems a bit steep if you are toasting them semi often.