So the logical thing to do is jump to conclusions, then. I've certainly done my fair share of noting problems with GT5, but I'm unaware of any time that I outright said "there is no value to be had in GT5." Those things I said were observations. Nothing more, and nothing less.
But you weren't interested in hearing the reasons behind those observations. You instead felt it more prudent to play the "some people like it (or, more honestly, don't care), so that is your problem" card.
I can only respond and draw conclusions from the information given to me. I've seen nothing but strong criticism from you. It would be illogical to assume that someone enjoys something that they see as sabotaged, ignored and bare-bones, especially when there is no counterbalance ever given in their argument.
And that is all well and good. Explain how that counteracts, say, the problems with the linearity of the game when at best it only sidesteps them.
I'm not sure I see GT5 as being
less linear than any of the other GT titles. It's shorter, yes, but I've never owned a GT title that didn't involve massive amounts of replay. The difference now (for people that have broadband and are willing to use it) is that you can now play in a practically unlimited number of events and race configurations against much better AI (human actually).
If GT was more of a real RPG, maybe having fragmented online play would be sidestepping, but playing a 3 race Miata series online and playing in a 3 race Miata cup in A-Spec isn't that much different to me. The main difference is the online play is usally more competitive (because you can enforce PP and tuning limits), more intense (better "AI"), and more engaging (because you know you're racing against other humans and can often talk back and forth). To me, this is
better than an A-Spec equivalent race.
Because many others, such as brambos, have already explained why it wasn't.
Maybe I missed it, but all I've seen from brambos is that he isn't interested in it and doesn't have time for it. That's an individual's reason for not playing online, not a reason the argument is irrelevant.
Honestly, that argument (that broadband internet is not available everywhere or people don't want to play online) holds as much validity as someone saying an S2000 is a terrible car because they only have one arm and the S2000 is only available in a stickshift. It explains to me why
they don't like it and why it won't work for
them, but I don't see how that's a valid critique of a product as a whole.
Because, if we are talking about the feature set it has, it is. Even compared to GT5: Prologue of all things.
Again, I'm not denying I'd like additional offline content, but GT5 has what no other full GT release has offered, which is online play. If someone is willing/able to take advantage of this feature, there's suddenly much more content available. Also, you think that GT5 has
less to offer in the way of gameplay than GT5
?
Of course. Because with such courteous responses to things that I said as "If you're concerned about that sort of obsolescence, I suggest you stick with GT2 (or avoid electronics all together)," it seemed like it was absolutely the best way to continue the discussion.
Your first response to me was filled with pejoratives and slights. Did you think that telling someone they had an attitude, silly opinions, and made dumb assertions was considered courteous? I'm sorry if you felt I started this, but from the beginning your word choice and tone has shown nothing but condescension and disdain. You shouldn't be surprised when that's reflected back at you.
In my first post, I expressed criticism of the single-player as it is now because it meant a lack of longevity when the multiplayer goes away. Your acknowledged, objective response was to suggest that I shut up and go play GT2.
You point requires the assumption that the GT5 servers will not be up for an appreciable amount of time and that one would also want to (or be able to) revisit that game in 12 years to play it. I cannot criticize something now for an assumed problem we'll have in 12 years. Twelve years is a very long time, well beyond the lifecycle of the PS3 or GT5.
Because the overwhelming majority of it is either user-created (and thus unrelated to the topic) or simply not comparable to the single-player game (because good luck finding a clean race first time out).
User-created content does not make it less fun or challenging. You still get XP and credits rewarded which still help you buy more cars and advance your A-Spec level (which I believe is related to this topic). You may not win a trophy, but since that isn't a primary part of gameplay I don't see why that would be an issue. As far as clean racing, that's why there are numerous user-created leagues and tournaments that focus on clean racing. There's also private lounges where you can prevent randoms from coming in and disrupting things. It's really not as hard as you make it seem.
So, again, why does having a multiplayer mode preclude having a balanced, well-designed single-player mode?
You keep saying "preclude" as though I've hinted that because there's online gameplay, the offline content should be worthless. No where have I said that. In fact, I've repeatedly said I'd like
more offline content. My point is that online play (for people that are willing and able) is an excellent alternative to grudgingly replaying offline races over and over. The fact that online play is often more challenging and engaging than offline play is just a benefit.
Perhaps because this isn't Gran Turismo: Online. It is Gran Turismo 5, and thus is expected to carry most of the things seen in Gran Turismo 4. And Gran Turismo 3. And Gran Turismo 2.
Not to just say screw it to some of the expectations of the GT series single player mode, sometimes intentionally, and then hope that "well, there is an online mode" is enough to stifle any of the criticisms; and to hell with those who don't agree or can't comply.
Again, no where have I said I'd turn down more offline content. I'm certainly done with all the A-Spec events I care or have time to finish right now (and have been for a while). My point was that PD added a new feature and this feature allows for as much unique, non-repetitive play as the player wants. If that's a door someone cannot or will not open, so be it. It doesn't change what's behind it.
