Do you think perhaps Kaz's interest in GT as a game is actually waning? (TITLE EDITED

[gaming25]

I keep looking at GT5 and while I know many want to look only at it's positives over it's negatives I think we must agree that the game seems unfinished and that is surprising after so long...

And I was thinking abut why this might have happened - there is the obvious answer "it's hard and it takes a lot of time!" but really is that it? It doens't feel that way to me... it feels to me like a long term project that the team (or at least the leader) has started to lose interest in but is still bound to complete.

Looking back in my own past I can see times when this happened, perhaps it was a porject at work or perhaps it was just a hobbie thing with some friends... something interseting and challenging came up and we got started and our first result was very impmressive! So we kept at it, easy to dedicate time and effort and crank out an improved version with more work but over time interest started to go elsewhere, progress stagnated and at work it was status checks on where we were with this project which required reasons like how hard it was and how we were waiting on some third part or some such other excuse to make the delay seem reasonable when really it had just become an uninteresting project that got back burnered. Finally some boss high enough up would ask sternly why this wasn't done yet and the excusese and reasons were done with, we would plod through the steps to get the project done but when it was it obviously wasn't the work of someone truly interested in it and it fell short in every area that it couldn't without rendering it a failure... no more time than was necessary had been applied in order to provide a "product" and while it did what it needed to, it's not something anyone would have been proud of.

Or with the hobbies and friends that thing sititng in the garage that we put so many hours into, got a first model out and got 50% done on the refined version quickly but now it had been months or years and we weren't even 75% done with teh second version... everyone still put in some time on it out of respect to the group and the ideal we had started with but honestly everyone was looking for excuses to do something else that was more interesting and it showed.

We have seen a lot of Kaz going arund doing things, racing, starting GT academy, making marketing/advertising deals with companies... basically it looks a lot like Kaz is able to realize a lot of his dreams now with GT as the foundation. But maybe that's spreading him thin and it's showing in GT5? Like the guy who makes the inventive new startup company, it goes big and he gets 100 million in an IPO then suddenly he isn't at the office anymore spending late nights working furiously on his labor of love... his labor of love has now enabled him to get a yacht he always wanted, travel to exotic places and drink and dine with upscale company... and his original project gets enough attention to keep it running but is the red headed stepchild of his life now.

Maybe Kaz's interests are starting to go elsewhere... he is turning the GT name into a franchise instead of a game title and in the process the GT game is perhaps becoming his ball and chain... the thing he has to do but not the thing he wants to focus on anymore.

It seems to me all the issues with GT5 we see fit well with a leader who has lost interest and moved on to other more interesting things giving this project only the minimal attention his team needs from him.

GT5 still does well what GT has always done well at the core which is the driving experience and physics engine, but that's hardly something that needs much attention from Kaz... everywhere else that things seem rough and unfinished reminds me of that project in my garage that was going to take all summer to do but would be awesome and is now 3 years in the making and barely turns on let alone works....

I don't know, what do you think?

First of all you assumed that most of us think that GT5 is an "incomplete" game, which is not true. But then you went on to criticize Kaz going to different events as if he put off GT5 and was busy on having fame and didnt pay much attention to GT5. There is no way for you to know this. And to accuse him of being someone who wanted to be rich and then when he got what he wanted turned his back on the consumer is a terrible smear that is completely not backed by any evidence whatsoever. You dont know anything about the develpement process for GT5 to even make such a claim.

 

[gaming25]

Ive never seen a perfectionist spend 5 years on something for it to just end up with so many areas that could have been better?

In areas one thinks are important is what makes someone a perfectionist. Not because of you disagreeing about some of the design choices.

 

[speedthrill]

No! (to first post)

I think the problem is that Kaz has too much interest in GT5 and probably wouldn't ever have finished it had it not been for someone stepping in.

This!

Oh, and Kazunori, is not my leader, he is my heroe!

 

[EternityMachine]

I think the problem is that Kaz has too much interest in GT5 and probably wouldn't ever have finished it had it not been for someone stepping in.

I'm going to agree with this. Going by everything I've read, it sounds like the reason the game feels "unfinished" in some areas is because he had too many ideas, too big of hopes, and too much attention to detail. If it wasn't for pressure for the game to be released, they'd still be working on it. And by the time it came out, it would have been absolutely perfect. But there was so much frustration with the release dates getting pushed back, that consequently, the public forced them to cut it short. From the sounds of it as well, he still has those hopes and dreams for it. I'm expecting a lot in patches. If not that, then GT6 will be even more amazing.

That's just my thoughts on what happened.

 

[sunnygsm]

No. Clearly he has too much interest and is trying to deliver so much that he's fallen short of what he wanted/promised. Tbh once I get on the track I forget all about any minor issues the game has.

 

[Bangai-O]

This happens to me at school (architecture student). With all projects I get so interested and want to have a perfect product but I spend too much time on details which end up being bad a$$ but the final objective is way incomplete. That's one reason why I admire Kaz, he's a perfectionist living in an un-perfect world.

Architecture student here too! I share the pain. You can keep working on details, and you won't stop because it isn't 'right', your peers think you're nuts but you think you can resolve the whole project to insane precision. Next thing you know, you're being indecisive or delaying other areas because you think its quick things. then deadline decides to rear its head. Potential killer drawings get rushed.

But the stairs sure were sweet!

I think as said before, its a mix of Kaz over extending his team, overestimation of ps3 abilities and Sony demanding marketable features which led to the unfinishedness of the game. A case of too much love.

 

[tyoelin]

No, he wanted to accomplish too much and ended up having to compromise on many features instead of having a polished few. Sounds familiar actually...

 

[speedthrill]

this is a long read so have read carefully,and sorry for the grammar:

It depends of how you look the progression of events in the GT5 development,first GTHD(GT4 HD),then going to GT5 prologue and then getting into GT full,of course he is making his life aspirations come true(well who doesn't with all that money)but then he doesn't have to take full time on development so what he does is put in charge somebody to make the game,which could be a terrible decision,in GT4's development he took more part,or at least it seems like but you right in what you are saying devedander.

What shows this is the level of attention of the things that he have been directly involved(like nurburgring 24 hours,time changes and weather)also in the cars that he model initially for prologue and the introduction of proper F1 teams and some of the rally stages,the thing is that maybe he wanted to do so much that he did a bit of all but with no time,to be honest I don't think that GT5 took all that time to be develop,they had to port over GT4 for the PSP and it could sound easy but is really a block in the way because all engine and the whole "GT4" content had to be refurbish,it might not seems like it but it went some serious work over that game(ie the physics which are not from this gen but they equal the complexity of the ones shown on the PS2).

GT5 looks incomplete because some of the work over it had to be outsourced,in games like FM3 they had to do this to increase content,the time that they take to make a premium vehicle is insane(3 months going by both scanning the car,the modelling it and remodelling it for the final car),yamauchi overestimate what he could do,he wanted to create "the best racing game" but as much as we wanted he didn't have the personnel to do it and the time.

I will do an aside point to this because is really 5 years in development?,I don't think so because GTPSP had to be ported to the PSP,the PS3 didn't come out until 2006 and if I'm good at maths that is 4 years not five ,so PD didn't had a base platform to work with,introduction of new hardware make them think of how to make the game,once limitations are set they can freely develop the game knowing memory limitations and processing power,I know that they move to GTHD to see how the software with interact with the hardware at the time,then they discover that more things could be done and they release they "work in progress" know as GT5 prologue,that is 2008 so that makes two years in development by 2008,then they move to GTPSP which put in halt the whole GT5 developing process until June of that year,then they retake GT5 in 2009.

I'm guessing that Sony wanted to have at least one game(or maybe two)to this generation of consoles to make the PS3 sale more and be more profitable for the company,so they needed to have a GT game for 2009,Kazunori did his job and in 2009 TGS he show R246,more premiums and damage, something that they might be developing less than 10 moths,they show it and the public show a good response to it,then the first announced GT5 for march next year,but there is a problem,the same problem that we are facing now,I believe that their original Idea was to bring GT5 as it is today GT4 HD+GT5 prologue,something that is making a bad reception of the game,We can see tracks like Rome,TG,Monza,Madrid,Toscana done during the last year with the plus of 130 premium cars,something that in the time line could take about 10 moths so we are in E3 2010,then there goes the creation of both SSR7 and SSR5,with time changes and weather changes, something to increase the game in some respects,then we see the addition of the track editor and that's about it,what we got today which is 30%GT5+100% GT4 HD,and that is the thing more content doesn't make a game better but adding more content makes a game bigger.

In the case of GT5 all went wrong,they should release GTHD as GT5 in 2007,if the had do that they give to Sony a selling game for their console and then go freely to develop GT5 as they wanted to be(today's 30% GT5),this could make GT6 to be in around 2011 to 2012 but it will be the 1000 Premiums cars with 100 tracks and all features that PD and everyone wanted,putting an aside the pressure from the public for the game to be released.

I know such games like Forza 3 and NFS shift which follow a similar developing cycle but for them there is no in mid development port over to other consoles and of they uses the same technique as GT5 does,around 40% of shift is based on a tweaked engine from NFS Pro-Street and around 75% of FM3 is based on FM2 assets,including to that the addition of only three tracks to the series,which makes me mention that FM3 is as GT5 a flawed game,why? because they took 2.5 years to crate cockpits,two tracks and around 120 cars which don't have the quality of GT prologue models,if you pay attention they did Fujimi Kaido back in Xbox original and ported the half of it to the 360,and Monserrat circuit,Rally di positano are the only addition in the track selection with Le mans and Cataluña,making monserrat and Ralli di positano like 3 circuits out of a single one,in shift there is no complex engine so is all down to the graphical department to make the game good,and in fact they did but as predicted it had limited content compared to its rivals.

For me is all down to what do you enjoy the most,FM3 have a white board to draw but I'm not artist so I just simply don't care,and shift is too "arcade" for me so I just stick with GT5,is the same case with everyone,it depends the most out of what do you want.Also we are starting to feel how different situation start to pop up,like the announcement of shift 2 which will take the slipstream that GT5 leaves,but because of this it will not make it as good as it should be,and I'm starting to believe that the same will happen with turn 10 which have to work on kinetic,and because of this FM4 will take a long time and its unknown of it will be as good as a potential "real GT5 a.k.a. GT6" in the next couple of years.

What you can read in the tweets of KY suggest what I just wrote,GT6 will be develop to PS3 that's for sure and signal of this is the "we have starting to make GT6" which show the real continuation of GT5 or at this point Gran Turismo as a Game.

So KY losing attention of GT5 because of his success,maybe,but Gran Turismo getting away from its roots is a nonsense.

You are quit the talker, unfortunately, half has been typed for nothing...
Because seperate teams worked on the port to psp, so research and development never stopped...

 

[Tornado]

First of all you assumed that most of us think that GT5 is an "incomplete" game, which is not true.

Not really open to interpretation.

 

[Spade13]

Well even though they had over 5 years of production time you need to know that they were on a budget and that they had limited workers compared to many other games that have hundreds of workers.

I still do feel like the game felt unfinished, but if Kaz was fully calling the shots, the game would have taken another 5 years to be actually completed. But then he would probably think of a new idea and would delay the game. Kaz is a perfectionist and he would never release game as he would always find something wrong with the game and want to fix it or add something new to Gran Turismo. Sony finally put its feet down and said that they had to release the game and GT5 came out unfinished in the end. There's still hope for Patched, Updates, and DLC though.

 

[RC45]

The dude is a project manager, plain and simple. As a project manager his role is to determine the needed resources, work the requirements and avoid requirements creep, baseline a schedule and re-prioritize work to stay on schedule, and stay on budget. He's not a programmer, and any project manager that gets too far into the details and doesn't let his technical team work is a failed project manager.

His biggest mistake was requirements creep. Lots of features were added in the process, and each time you add a new requirement other work gets affected. That may be schedule or cost impacts, or conflicts with existing game design or in-work/completed code. Now if Sony pushes new requirements on the PD team, it is up to him to make Sony aware of the cost and schedule impacts and not simply bend to pressure.

Actually, what made the GT franchise unique from day 1 is that the core personality was not just a PM. PM's seldom deliver heart and soul - PM's deliver saleable product, which is important but also why no art project has ever had a PM

GT was heart and soul early on and that i swhat drew many of us into the franchise, unfortunetly saleable product is what Sony wants these days - any saleable product - all they see is the total sales, even is they sell millions of half-baked BluRays.

In my honest opinion, the moment KY sold totally to Sony he lost any chance of fulfilling his dream title - he will always have to dance to the Sony marketing arm and that may be the real reason the title is so cluttered with unfinished stuff. What he really needs to do is buy back the franchise and get it back on HIS track.

 

[Devedander]

personally i see a trend here
GT1 on the PS1 - was good
GT2 - on the PS1 - was even better
GT3 on the PS2 - was good
GT4 - on the ps 2 was even better
GT5 - on the PS3 - is good
GT6 - on the PS3 - will be even better

see a pattern?

I saw it kind of like this:

GT1 on the PS1 - was good
GT2 - on the PS1 - was even better
GT3 on the PS2 - was good
GT4 - on the ps 2 was even better
GT5P - on the PS3 - is good
GT5 - on the PS3 - Should have been pretty close to perfect

I know there many people say GT5P was just a demo and doesn't count, but it fits pretty well in line with the odd numbered GTs from days of yore: a large step up from the previous one and reasonably polished and rounded but short on content. I don't believe a name changes what the product ultiamtely is.

I don't agree. I know the critics like to say the fans are in denial but I genuinely got everything I expected and wanted out of GT5. Kaz may have let a few things drop through the net this time around but they're mostly trivial in my opinion and it just makes me all the more excited for GT6 when he'll have time to refine the work he's done here.

As I said before I think part of it depends on whether you're a car-lover or a gamer, and as I'm a total freak for car design I'd have been happy if he'd just released a Photo Travel game without any racing in it. I'm sure not many people would feel the same, but for me at least it turns GT5 into something amazing.

I don't know... I have to think that the damage that was much talked about for GT5 isn't in yet and the online (my manual says hop on line, choose an even and be matched with other players) is obviouosly not done amongst other less obvious things are key signs it really wasn't finished.

Even excusing a final coat of polish I feel there is a lot that is soon to be done right but not yet.

 

[tazbo28]

i believe Kaz really tried his best in the end. However, it is very clear that a person who is out doing all the things he did (racing in events, traveling etc.) cannot be an effective project manager. I agree that he spent too much time boasting about his fantasy game and not enough time actually trying to do the work to make it a reality. Now people have to sit and spend hours and hours playing a half-finished game. Ultimately I feel that this proves to be a reality check to Sony that their go-to guy for car-game profits is not invincible. I also believe that this is definitly going to affect the budget allocation for the game itself (online and dlc) as well as the future budgets of the gt franchise. GT6 will probably get half the budget, and I think Kaz was probably concsious of this and wanted to get the most work he could get on this budget, so that he could have less work needed to complete GT6. Thus I feel that he included novelty features such as karting, a photo-mode and track editor just to keep the hype up with pretty screen shots. Obviously as many now know this doesnt translate into the actual game very well.

Silly us, we are all sitting here saying to ourselves, " what the hell were they doing for 4 years that made this game so ******?"---While Kaz and his team are probably more than halfway done with the work necessary for GT6.....Or at least I hope so....if not then this franchise is officially done for.

 

[tigermilk]

Actually, what made the GT franchise unique from day 1 is that the core personality was not just a PM. PM's seldom deliver heart and soul - PM's deliver saleable product, which is important but also why no art project has ever had a PM

Art project? Come on. It's a racing game. We can oversell it if we want but bottom line it's a racing game. There's no art to 1) build a physics engine, 2) build an AI engine, 3) replicate tracks and their environments, and 4) replicate cars. Physics - you better not give an artistic interpretation. Newtonian physics will be fine thanks you. AI - perhaps a little artistic leeway, but honestly? Tracks - perhaps for original tracks, but for real tracks you have a blueprint at your disposal. Cars - the "art" was already done by the car manufacturer, you just have to copy.

F355 on the Dreamcast was always touted as one man's vision for a "perfect" simulator. I can't think of anyone overblowing the description of that game and calling it art. The clouds were pretty, but art?

GT was heart and soul early on and that i swhat drew many of us into the franchise, unfortunetly saleable product is what Sony wants these days - any saleable product - all they see is the total sales, even is they sell millions of half-baked BluRays.

No. GT was, and always will be a racing game. For myself, what drew me in was that it packed an incredible amount of value in a single PSX disc and showed that you could have near PC quality sims on a consoie. But I've never felt GT had "heart and soul" nor considered it art. A game like Little Big Planet does have that artsy feel to it, but GT is no more art than Madden or Forza.

In my honest opinion, the moment KY sold totally to Sony he lost any chance of fulfilling his dream title - he will always have to dance to the Sony marketing arm and that may be the real reason the title is so cluttered with unfinished stuff. What he really needs to do is buy back the franchise and get it back on HIS track.

And if he did that you can bet development times would decrease and the team would be more focused. It's incredible what limited funds will do for motivation instead of having a cash cow like Sony feeding continuous funds to you. It would be a good move on PDs part as it allows them to port to additional consoles and PC and generate more revenue. And why is that important? Because in the end it's really about product and profit.

 

[Terronium-12]

First of all you assumed that most of us think that GT5 is an "incomplete" game, which is not true.

Uhm....I hate to be the guy that slaps you in the face with a 'reality check' but GT5, in it's current form, is very much incomplete. It's not really a matter of what you're okay with and what you're not....features are missing, features are skewed, some are even half-assed....explain how it isn't incomplete.

 

[zdawood89]

Im sure everyone here has seen this by now: https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-things-are-just-getting-started/

This is straight from the horses mouth, “There is still a lot of stuff to do for me. I’ve been making games for over 15 years now, and really, things are just getting started.”

Mr.Yamauchi has cited several times that he is pushing the PS3 hardware to the limit.Some examples that come to mind right now:
1. Dynamic lighting and jagged shadows, when prologue had fixed point lighting and perfectly fine shadows.
2. Tire temps but no way to adjust tire pressure, maybe its just one more variable the physics engine can't handle.

I wouldn't even mind if GT6 was pushed back to PS4, in fact I would prefer it. GT5 should keep me going for the next 2-3 years easily. I played GT4 for almost two.

I honestly feel Mr. Yamauchi has poured is life and soul into the Gran Turismo series.

 

[RC45]

Art project? Come on. It's a racing game. We can oversell it if we want but bottom line it's a racing game. There's no art to 1) build a physics engine, 2) build an AI engine, 3) replicate tracks and their environments, and 4) replicate cars. Physics - you better not give an artistic interpretation. Newtonian physics will be fine thanks you. AI - perhaps a little artistic leeway, but honestly? Tracks - perhaps for original tracks, but for real tracks you have a blueprint at your disposal. Cars - the "art" was already done by the car manufacturer, you just have to copy.

You are far too literal - I dont imagine you are the creative type... the word "art" in this case was used to denote "creative craft" not "portait on display".

F355 on the Dreamcast was always touted as one man's vision for a "perfect" simulator. I can't think of anyone overblowing the description of that game and calling it art. The clouds were pretty, but art?

Actually that is a perfect example of the "art" of video game production. I still have the Dreamcast just fo rthat game. Also have the SE Momo F355 wheel and pedals. As well as F355 Challenge for PlayStation.

No. GT was, and always will be a racing game. For myself, what drew me in was that it packed an incredible amount of value in a single PSX disc and showed that you could have near PC quality sims on a consoie. But I've never felt GT had "heart and soul" nor considered it art. A game like Little Big Planet does have that artsy feel to it, but GT is no more art than Madden or Forza.

Again with the literal interrpetation of the word "art". Perhaps you can better understand the word "craft". As in there is an art and/or craft to dialing in a suspension after just one afternoon of testing at the track. This does not mean youare making "arts and crafts" while dialing in your shocks.

I have met quite a few Japanese motorcycle and car enthusiasts as welll as machinists and model builders - they all had a fanatical perfection and devotion to their chosen art.

And if he did that you can bet development times would decrease and the team would be more focused. It's incredible what limited funds will do for motivation instead of having a cash cow like Sony feeding continuous funds to you. It would be a good move on PDs part as it allows them to port to additional consoles and PC and generate more revenue. And why is that important? Because in the end it's really about product and profit.

Ah we finally get to the short sighted western view of "product and profit".

This is the very reason so many once great franchises come and go.

At first the pure genius and content of the title sparks the market. The sales and profits come - the community backs the genius designer.

Then the corporate entity gets wind of the concept and throws money at the creative genius and demands more - the result is ALWAYS and burned out thrown away franchise.

This happens to books, movies, TV shows and computer games. Once the original genius loses creative control the franchise is doomed to a finite lifespan.

All the great creative genii kept creative control and then eventually quit on their terms.

I have $1000 that says the GT franchise will be shelved after GT6 and Kaz will be burned ou tand go onto other endevours.

 

[Falango]

No.

He said it best Devedander. You asked a question, you got an answer. I agree with him, no. Since when was no an uneducated response?

 

[tigermilk]

You are far too literal - I dont imagine you are the creative type... the word "art" in this case was used to denote "creative craft" not "portait on display".

You got that straight. Practicing engineer. Engineering has an art component to it, but in the end it's about meeting the technical and functional requirements.

Actually that is a perfect example of the "art" of video game production. I still have the Dreamcast just fo rthat game. Also have the SE Momo F355 wheel and pedals. As well as F355 Challenge for PlayStation.

I beg to differ. The PSX had more than enough power to create good sims. The later consoles have more than enough power, and honestly most of that power goes to making the games look nice and purty to the consumer. I love F355 and also have it for the DC and PS2. Even thought about buying the arcade version, but instead settled on a 1978 Ferrari 308 GTB instead But even that game isn't perfect. AI is terrible and pretty much scripted. But it sure sounds nice. Love that Ferrari sound. I'd wager the game could have been done on the PSX though with blocky graphics.

Again with the literal interrpetation of the word "art". Perhaps you can better understand the word "craft". As in there is an art and/or craft to dialing in a suspension after just one afternoon of testing at the track. This does not mean youare making "arts and crafts" while dialing in your shocks.

Or skill. Doing that hands-on takes skill and understanding the feedback your ride is giving you as a driver. In a game, it boils down to spring rate and damping ratios. There should be no craft or artistic inputs on the programming side. From a physics perspective, code the laws of nature straight up. The craft/skill, is then on the gamer to adjust those spring and damper rates based on how that particular driver interprets the feedback from the virtual automobile.

I have met quite a few Japanese motorcycle and car enthusiasts as welll as machinists and model builders - they all had a fanatical perfection and devotion to their chosen art.

And I've been to Japan 25+ times for work and fun and seen how fanatical perfection and devotion can be a hindrance to creativity and originality. I've worked side-by-side with multiple Japanese corporate and government institutions on major engineering programs and seen their inefficiencies and aversion to risk. Some of the strengths of the Japanese culture are also their weaknesses (same can be said for any culture).

Ah we finally get to the short sighted western view of "product and profit".

This is the very reason so many once great franchises come and go.

At first the pure genius and content of the title sparks the market. The sales and profits come - the community backs the genius designer.

Then the corporate entity gets wind of the concept and throws money at the creative genius and demands more - the result is ALWAYS and burned out thrown away franchise.

This happens to books, movies, TV shows and computer games. Once the original genius loses creative control the franchise is doomed to a finite lifespan.

All the great creative genii kept creative control and then eventually quit on their terms.

I have $1000 that says the GT franchise will be shelved after GT6 and Kaz will be burned ou tand go onto other endevours.

Sorry to break it to you, but even corporate Japan has one thing in mind - bottom line profit. They aren't in the business to lose money. That's left for the Japanese government, which by the way is an excellent example for the US in terms of what a high debt to GDP ratio can do for you...

An excellent example of "product and profit" is Apple and the iPod. For years Japan supported their own brands. Apple game in with the iPod and it dominated. Sony has tried multiple MP3 products to break this trend to no avail. Why? They are seeking a product that will get them back their market share and generate profits. And why is that? Because they aren't in the business of losing money. And Nissan certainly wanted to get into that Western idea of profit and product when they hired Carlos Ghosn.

 

[NLxAROSA]

He said it best Devedander. You asked a question, you got an answer. I agree with him, no. Since when was no an uneducated response?

Because the first posts asks to elaborate on your opinion, rather than just respond to the thread title?

Anyway, I'm inclined to say 'yes', for the simple reason that one can have only 100% attention. So if you have five things that need attention, they will obviously get less attention than when you have one thing to look after.

But is that the reason GT5 is in the current state it is now? I don't think so; I think GT5P, GT PSP, 3D, Move, Home, etc. etc. all got in the way (and Home didn't even make it into GT5) as well as other unexpected issues. Sony/PD just drew a line and said 'this will be released in 2010, no matter what the state it is in'. They wanted it out before Xmas, that's why some stuff that we already saw is missing. But I'm quite confident we will see more stuff coming in the coming weeks/months.

 

[gaming25]

Not really open to interpretation.

Huh? Yes it is.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

I dont want Kaz to become what Peter Molyneux is to the Fable franchise, always talking, never delivering. This is the first time Kaz promised more than he delivered. The bottom line is that many problems today started because Kaz ran his mouth in an ambiguous way, saying 1000 cars in GT5 after we had Prologue in our hands for more than a year is leading us on to expect 1000 premiums! I tweeted Kaz to implement money and XP in online races soon because its hard to find a lobby where people race, and not drive around playing bumper cars in free run! Again, people do that because Kaz ran his mouth saying we'll have 'track days' in GT5, Where is it? I bet a freaking patch, or they pulled it without telling us, like Youtube uploading.

 

[Tornado]

Huh? Yes it is.

How's that matchmaking? Or those leaderboards? And that's just going from what is listed on the back of the box.

GT5 is incomplete. Fact. Whether you agree or not is immaterial.

Alternatively:

Uhm....I hate to be the guy that slaps you in the face with a 'reality check' but GT5, in it's current form, is very much incomplete. It's not really a matter of what you're okay with and what you're not....features are missing, features are skewed, some are even half-assed....explain how it isn't incomplete.

Take your pick.

 

[gaming25]

How's that matchmaking? Or those leaderboards? And that's just going from what is listed on the back of the box.

That is actually the description of PSN. Has nothing to do with the game.

Take your pick.

I dont since he said claimed that most people do which is something he cant prove.

 

[Devedander]

He said it best Devedander. You asked a question, you got an answer. I agree with him, no. Since when was no an uneducated response?

Neither a simple "yes" or "no" on it's own shows an incite or education.

Because the first posts asks to elaborate on your opinion, rather than just respond to the thread title?

Anyway, I'm inclined to say 'yes', for the simple reason that one can have only 100% attention. So if you have five things that need attention, they will obviously get less attention than when you have one thing to look after.

But is that the reason GT5 is in the current state it is now? I don't think so; I think GT5P, GT PSP, 3D, Move, Home, etc. etc. all got in the way (and Home didn't even make it into GT5) as well as other unexpected issues. Sony/PD just drew a line and said 'this will be released in 2010, no matter what the state it is in'. They wanted it out before Xmas, that's why some stuff that we already saw is missing. But I'm quite confident we will see more stuff coming in the coming weeks/months.

I dont want Kaz to become what Peter Molyneux is to the Fable franchise, always talking, never delivering. This is the first time Kaz promised more than he delivered. The bottom line is that many problems today started because Kaz ran his mouth in an ambiguous way, saying 1000 cars in GT5 after we had Prologue in our hands for more than a year is leading us on to expect 1000 premiums! I tweeted Kaz to implement money and XP in online races soon because its hard to find a lobby where people race, and not drive around playing bumper cars in free run! Again, people do that because Kaz ran his mouth saying we'll have 'track days' in GT5, Where is it? I bet a freaking patch, or they pulled it without telling us, like Youtube uploading.

Imagine this for a moment (I am not saying this is how it is or even close, just a possibility that would have the outcome we see today):

10 years ago, Kaz starts off to make a project - a car encyclopedia that lets you feel what it's like to race a broad variety of cars in a "reasistic" fashion. He and his small team go into the office every day, excited and full of ideas and vigor... the midnight oil is burned not because it has to be but because everyone (Kaz especially) has so much enthusiasm for the project no one can go to sleep because they are so fascinated with working on it.

We have all been there haven't we? 4AM and gotta work tomorrow but just going to solder this one more piece, write this one more chapter or built this one last part... becuase we are enthralled in our interest.

Years go by and the team marvels at it's completed product... they have put blood and sweat into it and it's come out to be excellent.

So goes GT1... GT2 they get back together and start adding things they would loved to have seen in GT1 and fleshing it out even more... they are now on their second wind hot on the success of GT1 and the vigor is still strong.

Then comes GT3... a new challenge! New much more powerful hardware! They are working to do on the PS2 what they did on the PS1 but bigger and better... this is a new challenge... they have built it once but they will build it better now! Like someone who has built an engine in their garage and now has access to a real professional garage and machining tools!

Now it's less the product that's the focus but the challenge of the new level of doing it!

And so goes GT3...

The challenge and the thrill of accomplishing something new (adapting to a new level of hardware) is keeping the team focused.

GT is big... it's making money and now people in the business world are paying attention... Kaz is getting to realize his dreams of car love with racing and the GT name is turning into a franchise with potential marketing and business ties coming up left and right!

Then GT4... still loving his success, the profits pouring in, the new opportunities tied in with potential racing schools, business ties and franchise benefits on the horizon Kaz is hitting it big...

He's out doing, experiencing, building... still back at the office leading and feeding off his new experiences and oportunities to keep enthusiasm high on GT4... which turns out to be arguably one of the best GTs yet...

Now we move on to GT5 on PS3... GT has become more than a racing game... it has become a means to an end... a racing school and business are big and Kaz is out working them... and still working on GT5... but now what's the next challenge? They have already improved on his dream product once, they have already conqured new hardware once... the novelty of the challenge has worn off... he is in the office less and less because he is on the road more and more... all the parts of GT are pulling hiim in different directions and unlike coding another game these new facets have their novelty and new challenge.

Less and less is his dedication and pure focus on the game and more and more it's spread to the next challenge, the next step forward for the GT franchise... meanwhile back at the office workers toil hard at GT5 but with less leadership and enthusiasm to push them, less novelty of the challenge and with focus on so many other areas Kaz is being less of an influence directly on the game.

Now he is stopping in and giving input and testing and seeing how the game is coming but he is more like a boss and less like a team leader... he is getting info and seeing features he likes but he isn't in on the ground floor so his info is a little less accurate than it used to be... what his team tells him he goes and runs with telling the public about awesome new damage, new racing styles etc... he is essentially being marketed to by his own dev house and then passing it on...

Think Dan Greenwalt telling everyone "those cars you see in the showroom, those are the same models you will see during the race!".

Maybe he was stupidly trying to lie to the crowds and hoping not to get caught or maybe he had misunderstood some guy on the team explaining what the game was and went forth to pass on this missinformation.

Could this be what's happened with Kaz now? Is he less in touch and less involved and that's why the info is so strangely ambiguous and seemingly missleading?

Is that twitter answered solely by him? And if it is is he really behind the answers or is he fed info from his dev team and trying to answer as best he can one step away from the real info?

Again, not saying that's how it is by any means, but I think many of us here have it set in our minds how it's been and can't fathom there is another logical possibility... just tossing it out there as one that seems possible and would result in what we have seen...

 

[Tornado]

That is actually the description of PSN. Has nothing to do with the game.

Except for being advertised on the back of the damn box. And, you know, being a list of PSN features that apply to this specific game. But yeah, other than that, nothing to do with the game.

I dont since he said claimed that most people do which is something he cant prove.

And I don't particularly care whether he can prove what people's opinions are about an objective fact, just like I don't personally care what those opinions are in the first place.

 

[gaming25]

Imagine this for a moment (I am not saying this is how it is or even close, just a possibility that would have the outcome we see today):

10 years ago, Kaz starts off to make a project - a car encyclopedia that lets you feel what it's like to race a broad variety of cars in a "reasistic" fashion. He and his small team go into the office every day, excited and full of ideas and vigor... the midnight oil is burned not because it has to be but because everyone (Kaz especially) has so much enthusiasm for the project no one can go to sleep because they are so fascinated with working on it.

We have all been there haven't we? 4AM and gotta work tomorrow but just going to solder this one more piece, write this one more chapter or built this one last part... becuase we are enthralled in our interest.

Years go by and the team marvels at it's completed product... they have put blood and sweat into it and it's come out to be excellent.

So goes GT1... GT2 they get back together and start adding things they would loved to have seen in GT1 and fleshing it out even more... they are now on their second wind hot on the success of GT1 and the vigor is still strong.

Then comes GT3... a new challenge! New much more powerful hardware! They are working to do on the PS2 what they did on the PS1 but bigger and better... this is a new challenge... they have built it once but they will build it better now! Like someone who has built an engine in their garage and now has access to a real professional garage and machining tools!

Now it's less the product that's the focus but the challenge of the new level of doing it!

And so goes GT3...

The challenge and the thrill of accomplishing something new (adapting to a new level of hardware) is keeping the team focused.

GT is big... it's making money and now people in the business world are paying attention... Kaz is getting to realize his dreams of car love with racing and the GT name is turning into a franchise with potential marketing and business ties coming up left and right!

Then GT4... still loving his success, the profits pouring in, the new opportunities tied in with potential racing schools, business ties and franchise benefits on the horizon Kaz is hitting it big...

He's out doing, experiencing, building... still back at the office leading and feeding off his new experiences and oportunities to keep enthusiasm high on GT4... which turns out to be arguably one of the best GTs yet...

Now we move on to GT5 on PS3... GT has become more than a racing game... it has become a means to an end... a racing school and business are big and Kaz is out working them... and still working on GT5... but now what's the next challenge? They have already improved on his dream product once, they have already conqured new hardware once... the novelty of the challenge has worn off... he is in the office less and less because he is on the road more and more... all the parts of GT are pulling hiim in different directions and unlike coding another game these new facets have their novelty and new challenge.

Less and less is his dedication and pure focus on the game and more and more it's spread to the next challenge, the next step forward for the GT franchise... meanwhile back at the office workers toil hard at GT5 but with less leadership and enthusiasm to push them, less novelty of the challenge and with focus on so many other areas Kaz is being less of an influence directly on the game.

Now he is stopping in and giving input and testing and seeing how the game is coming but he is more like a boss and less like a team leader... he is getting info and seeing features he likes but he isn't in on the ground floor so his info is a little less accurate than it used to be... what his team tells him he goes and runs with telling the public about awesome new damage, new racing styles etc... he is essentially being marketed to by his own dev house and then passing it on...

Think Dan Greenwalt telling everyone "those cars you see in the showroom, those are the same models you will see during the race!".

Maybe he was stupidly trying to lie to the crowds and hoping not to get caught or maybe he had misunderstood some guy on the team explaining what the game was and went forth to pass on this missinformation.

Could this be what's happened with Kaz now? Is he less in touch and less involved and that's why the info is so strangely ambiguous and seemingly missleading?

Is that twitter answered solely by him? And if it is is he really behind the answers or is he fed info from his dev team and trying to answer as best he can one step away from the real info?

Again, not saying that's how it is by any means, but I think many of us here have it set in our minds how it's been and can't fathom there is another logical possibility... just tossing it out there as one that seems possible and would result in what we have seen...

But what you said in the end is still just a story. That is all, it isnt actually based on any findings firsthand at PD. And another thing, I dont understand how you could somehow question the dedication or the influence that Kaz had over this project. And basing it on him touring the world's tracks (which is probably for the game) doesnt hold up for such a claim.

 

[SavageEvil]

I feel that Kaz is just having to fight with Sony over his own game. GT was Kaz's brain child, he begged sony to let him make a game about normal cars and it was a hit. Sony saw potential there and each successive GT game sold more and more, shifting systems as well. Kaz takes aim at what he wants to do and then goes for it, this is practically the most incomplete GT game ever created by PD...Sony was running too much interference, too much side distractions. We sure as hell didn't need GTPSP, but Sony wanted it because PSP was lagging in sales and Sony wanted a system seller to boost sales....see how that went.

Even with all the interference from Sony, 3D garbage and GTPSP and making prologue an actual retail game. GT5 did turn out pretty good, but all that lost time is showing as the coding isn't as good as it should have been. Those shadows are a pain in the ass because they show up on any car that the player uses, tuning options missing features my full custom tranny isn't fully customizable, mechanical damage that was disabled before the game shipped, fundamental options in online were missing. Sony should have left Kaz and PD to their own devices and not bothered them to take side excursions. Now they PD, have to run damage control and try to repair their franchise because their bosses wanted to play captain save a hoe and save PSP lagging sales.

Should Kaz and PD have limited their projections for GT5 in the face of the side trips they had to take on their way here? Hell no, but Sony needs to leave well enough alone. The meddling has caused GT5 to not only ship 2 years late, but it ships flawed and many of the flaws would not have happened on such a scale had PD had all their attention focused solely on GT5 and not making meaningless ports and a stop gap game. After GT5 Kaz should basically ease up on producing and let someone younger take the lead and this will ultimately lead to his death. Check out how skinny Kaz looked in some of the videos leading up to GT5's launch. He looked rather unhealthy for a man his age, very frail. GT franchise is beginning to take it's toll on the man. Frustration is part of it, but I'll stand by my firm belief that it boils down to corporate greed and wanting too much in too little time.

 

[gaming25]

Except for being advertised on the back of the box. And, you know, being a list of PSN features that apply to this specific game. But yeah, other than that, nothing to do with the game.

It is the description of PSN, for example, some of what it said were things that had nothing to do with GT5's online.

 

[White & Nerdy]

I think if Kaz is losing interest, he's probably discouraged. From what I've heard, Sony forced him to do GTPSP so they could sell more PSP Gos, resulting in delays to the original project (console GT), as well as some content reduction to cut the delay short. Then they wanted 3D compatibility so they'd have another wow-factor feature to show off (and sell 3D TVs with). This most likely resulted in even more delays and content cuts, and I'm sure the 5 people who'll be using 3D would rather have had a more complete game with an earlier release. Then there was PSP-PS3 connectivity. More delays. More slimming. 800 worthless low-detail cars you can't completely avoid using. Finally they hold him up at the last minute because of a bureaucratic requirement for upgraded piracy protection. It took three extra days to finish and two extra weeks to release. In general, the core of the game seems to have been sacrificed so Sony could have a big list of shiny new features to show off. If I was authoring a video game, and a console manufacturer was constantly messing with (and messing up) my work, I'd get discouraged and lose interest pretty quickly too.