Does "clean" mean anything anymore?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tower Turn 13
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I don't mean to hijack anything, but on a different yet related topic; Most of these stories are why I haven't even tried the online portion of the GT5 experience. I'm no where near the best driver. In the single player modes, I have leaned, bumped, exchanged paint wherever possible to get me a lead as quick as possible. But, in online, I know I would try not to do those things in an online setting (as I have tried to clean up my act mostly in the game since GT3), but I am only human. I want my online experience to be mostly positive and fun. Even if I lose. I don't have a mic (yet). I really don't want to drive with morons that will be namecalling and being generally idiotic, though I understand and welcome occasional smack talk.

Perhaps I'm just too old, picky or "scared" to join, but these types of stories don't really help. Not that I'm blaming anyone for my resistance to joining, but this isn't the only place I've seen these types of stories.
 
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Jackwagon
I don't mean to hijack anything, but on a different yet related topic; Most of these stories are why I haven't even tried the online portion of the GT5 experience. I'm no where near the best driver. In the single player modes, I have leaned, bumped, exchanged paint wherever possible to get me a lead as quick as possible. But, in online, I know I would try not to do those things in an online setting (as I have tried to clean up my act mostly in the game since GT3), but I am only human. I want my online experience to be mostly positive and fun. Even if I lose. I don't have a mic (yet). I really don't want to drive with morons that will be namecalling and being generally idiotic, though I understand and welcome occasional smack talk.

Perhaps I'm just too old, picky or "scared" to join, but these types of stories don't really help. Not that I'm blaming anyone for my resistance to joining, but this isn't the only place I've seen these types of stories.
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You should try it. Online is so much more rewarding than offline. There are lots of rooms that don't require you to be 100% clean. I think I saw a thread for people who try to race clean but don't get mad if you make a little mistake. Here it is: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=227253
 
Jackwagon
I don't mean to hijack anything, but on a different yet related topic; Most of these stories are why I haven't even tried the online portion of the GT5 experience. I'm no where near the best driver. In the single player modes, I have leaned, bumped, exchanged paint wherever possible to get me a lead as quick as possible. But, in online, I know I would try not to do those things in an online setting (as I have tried to clean up my act mostly in the game since GT3), but I am only human. I want my online experience to be mostly positive and fun. Even if I lose. I don't have a mic (yet). I really don't want to drive with morons that will be namecalling and being generally idiotic, though I understand and welcome occasional smack talk.

Perhaps I'm just too old, picky or "scared" to join, but these types of stories don't really help. Not that I'm blaming anyone for my resistance to joining, but this isn't the only place I've seen these types of stories.
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Im with you on this... I do like Online Racing as it is a nice way to break out of the AI racing and race others (which many are better than the AI) but I am by no means a pro myself... Im pretty good, but I loose A LOT in online! Really I have found most rooms I go to, if you follow the rules they post, even those with mics are pretty nice... its just people enjoying the game with other fans... There are always a few that are not as good or overly aggressive but its as simple as find another room. Also I have found that tracks OTHER than High Speed Ring, Daytona Speedway and Indy Speedway have better players on them and cleaner drivers... Those 3 tracks seem to draw weaker drivers (unless the host of the room changes the track to one of them for fun). I have found many rooms I will sit in for hours and enjoy it.

Last night for example I sat in a Free Run on Indy Road Course... It had quite a mix of drivers in it... some were circuit racers just doing laps (I was one of them) and on the inside straightaway is a 1/4 mile strip that others were drag racing on... Periodically I would stop and drag and the rest of the time ran laps... because there is no "Race Start" its really quite relaxing in a way... Kind of felt like a car club on Indy... lol... Drag Racing is pretty hard though without the "tree"... one person sits in front and pauses (making them go clear) when its time to go... if that person doesnt have a mic its hard to tell when they will pause
 
Jackwagon
I don't mean to hijack anything, but on a different yet related topic; Most of these stories are why I haven't even tried the online portion of the GT5 experience. I'm no where near the best driver. In the single player modes, I have leaned, bumped, exchanged paint wherever possible to get me a lead as quick as possible. But, in online, I know I would try not to do those things in an online setting (as I have tried to clean up my act mostly in the game since GT3), but I am only human. I want my online experience to be mostly positive and fun. Even if I lose. I don't have a mic (yet). I really don't want to drive with morons that will be namecalling and being generally idiotic, though I understand and welcome occasional smack talk.

Perhaps I'm just too old, picky or "scared" to join, but these types of stories don't really help. Not that I'm blaming anyone for my resistance to joining, but this isn't the only place I've seen these types of stories.
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Just to be clear I'm not talking about little mistakes. I've hit people before. No one is perfect. Usually I think when people make a mistake that ruins someone's race and then apologize about it afterwards, there's no harm, no foul.

I'm referring to the super-aggressive people who are constantly ramming their way around, and think they have to pass in the first corner. These are the people who sometimes end up WINNING the race--meaning they have some iota of skill already, they just have no idea how to apply it with any kind of patience.

I have no issue with people making small bumps, but I promise clean racing is easier than it seems. It just means respect really. A good way to learn is in a-spec. Those drivers always hold their lines, and you as the faster driver have to make the move, like in real life. Try to re-do the a-spec races without touching any opposing cars. You may not always win first this way but don't focus on that. Eventually you will win as easily as if you were pushing them out of the way. You'll get better and and realize you don't need to do that.

Also, I have no problem with the crash-fest rooms, either. They have their place. Just don't advertise them as clean.
 
Tower Turn 13
A good way to learn is in a-spec. Those drivers always hold their lines, and you as the faster driver have to make the move, like in real life. Try to re-do the a-spec races without touching any opposing cars. You may not always win first this way but don't focus on that. Eventually you will win as easily as if you were pushing them out of the way. You'll get better and and realize you don't need to do that.
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Done this myself! Its actually VERY fun... It brings a fresh perspective to old races :sly:

Like I said earlier in the thread... "One car at at time"
 
mrkevans
It's idiots like you that ruin online races, go play Mario kart if you want that sort of race!
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Was calling me an idiot necessary. I was just saying what i like to do.
 
Tower Turn 13
Yeah let's not name-call if possible. klassykid can do whatever he wants as long as he doesn't do it in our ALMS races ;)
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Yes exactly. The ALMS is the only time i will agree to race clean.
 
This is why I joined this web site. Organized series, great people and fair racers. And when I say fair, I mean they race cleanly with minimal incident.

Almost every random room I go into, there are idiots who really do not know how to race and intentionally slam into my rear, and they swerve all over the place, probably not trying to block me, but not being able to control their car. Or the just cut the course.

They take out their most powerful car, not knowing how to control it. That pisses me off, so I take out a similar car they have and blow them in the dust. lol But if they know what they are doing and race fairly, then I do not mind a little contact. Contact is still a part of racing regardless if it is intentional or not. Especially if it's a close battle, which makes it all the more exciting!

But seriously, I don't go into random rooms anymore. Only GTP formed rooms.
 
leepangfu
You should try it. Online is so much more rewarding than offline. There are lots of rooms that don't require you to be 100% clean. I think I saw a thread for people who try to race clean but don't get mad if you make a little mistake. Here it is: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=227253
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Yep that's us!! We welcome any driver if they're into having fun, trying to further their skills or are sick of not being unable to find a room without getting booted.

We have a new thread too, in Clubs & Leagues section: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=229656

Cheers :D
 
i think the main problem is the people fear to not slam the gas when 2 cars driving side by side, its logic that you cant go 100% throttle but, hey such fights are really intressting thats why we want to race^^

but i must agree its a bit a longer way to learn this...

played few days ago splitscreen with a friend - rally on Eigernordwand (long track),

it was sometimes a hard and awesome battle :) we used the WRC cars
 
I would like to illustrate my point to you guys, to prove there are plenty of actual clean racers out there.

The last random room I went to I was hit every which way, even on a strait when we were both accelerating, I kept getting rearended by one guy. On a strait! While accelerating, not braking!

Then I finally started getting on the track with some of my buddies from the ALMS series I run with. Not ONE collision. Not one. Not even a slight tap.

We all waited patiently for opportunities to pass, rather than make moves that in real life could take both cars out and actually injure somebody.
 
I was talking with a friend last night and we came to agree that for what ever reason the number of players plays a huge role in how clean a race might be. We've have great clean races with up to 10 or 11 players, but almost every single time a room fills up with 16 players chaos ensues. And these are usually made up up half friends (very clean) and half strangers. I'm sure a room full of all friends wouldn't turn out like this.

It just seems like once that number of players is reached that respect and fairness gets thrown out the door (for open lobbies).
 
grog
I was talking with a friend last night and we came to agree that for what ever reason the number of players plays a huge role in how clean a race might be. We've have great clean races with up to 10 or 11 players, but almost every single time a room fills up with 16 players chaos ensues. And these are usually made up up half friends (very clean) and half strangers. I'm sure a room full of all friends wouldn't turn out like this.

It just seems like once that number of players is reached that respect and fairness gets thrown out the door (for open lobbies).
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This is partly true, but the other factor is the short nature of races online. Often you only have 3 -5 laps to get past an entire field, on a tight and twisty track. More laps would give people more time to put together a clean race and there would be no excuse for not driving clean.

And anyone that uses a "reverse grid" set up for qualifying, gets what they deserve. Having the slowest, least experienced drivers at the front is a recipe for disaster just about every time. Slow guys at the front never win, just causes a lot of unnecessary chaos and serves no purpose whatsoever.

If we stretched things out to 5-10 laps I think you'd get better racing, and usually do, because a lot of the knuckleheads won't join races that long, and rage quit most of the time anyway. Harder tires also keep the clowns away, and forget about the reverse grid unless you're racing with your buddies.

Combine those three things with hosts that do their job and you'd solve a lot of problems online.
 
Johnnypenso
And anyone that uses a "reverse grid" set up for qualifying, gets what they deserve.
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reverse grid on nurb nord makes sense, there's no way we wait for ppl to run two laps to qualify so it's a way of keeping things fresh and giving the slower guys a chance to play up front. the truly fast guys will work their way up through the field cleanly (contrary to popular belief, there are plenty of places to pass - you just have to know the track well and plan your passes in some cases, several turns ahead) and if not, who cares, nowhere does it say you have to win every race.

honestly, a lot of the complaints i see in this thread don't crop up (as often) on nurb. donno if it's the track's complexity or the track rules (real grip, low draft, etc) we use that keeps the maroons away.

and to the fellow that was complaining about being hit from behind on a straight, that was likely bump drafting which benefits you as well. i do it all the time when trying to catch someone who's taken off ahead of us, remember 2nd place is the 1st loser. i'm less interested in passing you than i am in catching 1st place. if you're not interested in that tactic, move over.
 
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I love online racing, and having only just got GT5, I can clearly say it's my favourite part of the game. The feeling of racing wheel to wheel with another human is far more exciting and interesting than a computer, and I've had some brilliant races with completely random people in completely random rooms. People who have raced clean, hard, fair and clean.

However, there are usually a few people in each room that don't quite 'get it'. It might not be that they are dirty or malicious, it's just a lack of racing intelligence.

Take for example Spa. I do a lot of GT500 races there which are great fun, but I always ensure I qualify somewhere near the back, because I know for a fact that

a) people will smash into you in La Source
b) people will try to go 2 or 3 wide into Eau Rouge, try to go around the outside of you, the inside, whatever they think is possible.

It's this kind of impatience that really bugs me with some people. And half the time they try to go round the outside of you at Eau Rouge, they go off and get a penalty. So it leaves me to scoop up those people and just drive through their ghosts.

The biggest thing I've experience is some people's lack of ability to think and judge the situation ahead of them. The other day I was stuck behind two guys who were slower than me, but I was keeping it clean, braking earlier so as to not go into the back of them, trying to get a cleaner exit, etc. Not once did I hit them, because I didn't want to do something stupid. There was one guy behind me who did not understand the concept of having to adapt to the situation ahead of him. I got hit 4 or 5 times in the rear by him because he failed to realise that I myself was stuck behind other cars, and that what I was trying to do was keep it all clean. He kept trying to brake at the usual points and subsequently hit me in the rear plenty.

It's the same thing with Eau Rouge ; when you can see you're going to catch up to someone in the middle of Eau Rouge you should back out just slightly so that you don't hit them in the middle of the corner, and instead you focus on staying in their slipstream so you can make a move into Les Combes. It's that kind of lack of understanding that is the worst to me.

Dirty racers are just dirty, people who can't think while racing are just as bad, if not worse.
 
Jackwagon
I don't mean to hijack anything, but on a different yet related topic; Most of these stories are why I haven't even tried the online portion of the GT5 experience. I'm no where near the best driver. In the single player modes, I have leaned, bumped, exchanged paint wherever possible to get me a lead as quick as possible. But, in online, I know I would try not to do those things in an online setting (as I have tried to clean up my act mostly in the game since GT3), but I am only human. I want my online experience to be mostly positive and fun. Even if I lose. I don't have a mic (yet). I really don't want to drive with morons that will be namecalling and being generally idiotic, though I understand and welcome occasional smack talk.

Perhaps I'm just too old, picky or "scared" to join, but these types of stories don't really help. Not that I'm blaming anyone for my resistance to joining, but this isn't the only place I've seen these types of stories.
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Try here!
 
People who can't judge braking times into a corner.. If you're behind someone you generally need to brake first to give the car time ahead of you to get around the corner. You can"t brake after that person otherwise you'll be kissing their ass end. Most frustrating thing ever.

The first corner condition as well. I barely find rooms that keep that smooth.
 
esoxhntr
if you're not interested in that tactic, move over.
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What you say makes sense...up until this statement. Not my responsibility to move off my line. We aren't teammates, unless previously stated. No intention of helping every car or needing help for that matter. I'd rather keep clean and keep to myself. Seems like a good tactic, though, for those who are interested.
 
eNJS
The biggest thing I've experience is some people's lack of ability to think and judge the situation ahead of them.
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And that is why I agree that GT5 really is "The Real Driving Simulator." I think the same thing every day on the way to and from work! :)

And whoever mentioned that A-Spec is training for exactly how you should NOT race... perfect observation! This is my first experience and I honestly feel I've had to un-learn everything I did during the early days that I had the game!
 
Guys do what i do: i create a room, full penalized, no damage. If i get just a lightly wiff that someone isnt ABSOLETLY CLEAN, GETS KICKED IN THAT MOMENT.. Even if i am wrong and missleaded(i dont know if this word is well spoken)..

If everyone does this, in a medium short amount of time, most of the rooms will be clean. wont they?
 
It's a tough call because if you're too tough people who make simple mistakes are left out. If you aren't tough enough the smash-up derbyists get away with whatever they want.

I usually would wait for an apology from the drivers who made avoidable contact. If they don't offer one or it happens repeatedly then kick.
 
I have only had a chance to race once online (at a friends house when updating to spec 2.0) and coming from Australia it limits the number of rooms i can enter due to lag/bad connection to host.
From all the stories i have read here it seems luck was with me when i joined a "clean" shuffle room with 7-9 drivers. For about 2 hours people were coming and going and through it all was only little mistakes and collisions. It would be the most enjoyable and heart pounding experience i have had playing GT5 over the last 6 months.
 
bypo
Guys do what i do: i create a room, full penalized, no damage. If i get just a lightly wiff that someone isnt ABSOLETLY CLEAN, GETS KICKED IN THAT MOMENT.. Even if i am wrong and missleaded(i dont know if this word is well spoken)..

If everyone does this, in a medium short amount of time, most of the rooms will be clean. wont they?
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The problem with the penalty system is that if someone makes a small mistake it can lead to losing a race. If someone in a real race cuts one corner by accident they don't get a penalty.

I do different things when I host a room. When I just want some quick races with a lot of people I know that they won't be perfectly clean so I don't restrict the tyres, only disable SRF and Steering help and put penalties on light and just kick the persons who drive too dirty. For example if someone cuts the final chicane on Spa at full speed and overtakes two he will get instantly kicked. But I won't kick everyone who makes some mistakes.

If a want a room as clean as possible I restrict the tyres, put all assists off and penalties off. I say the rules before the race thanks to the auto fill thing in the PSN message system. These rules are: No corner cutting, No ramming on purpose and if you do cut corners or ram by accident, wait and let the person you rammed/overtook pass you. If someone doesn't do this I kick them. But most people who enter these rooms will drive clean and you see the dirty drivers leaving after you've seen the car settings icon behind there name so they found out that they can't use racing soft tyres.
 
Tower Turn 13
I think an even easier solution would be to mimic iRacing's safety rating system. If your safety rating (based on collisions, spins, off-tracks, course-cutting, etc.) is lower by a certain amount than the room host permits, you aren't allowed in.
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This, you are absolutely spot-on.
 
I normally don't race online because too many people complain about "something that I did to them"...

The day that the DLC was released in the United States, I went online and hosted a room to try out the "new" X2011 on Monza to see if we can get faster times than on the Sebastian Vettel X Challenge. The majority of the people who joined the room wanted to race instead of hot-lap, so I started a race.

Right at the beginning, there was one driver who, for some unknown reason, was swerving on the first straight of Monza right before the chicane like a sidewinder snake. He bumped me and I was about to land in the grass; I eased off of the throttle to regain control as the driver hit me an additional four times before spinning out and landing in the grass. Then I just pushed up my throttle again and continued...

Once the driver hit the wall, you can expect the usual remark of "fag" or "wow" or "stupid noob". I personally thought it was lag on that driver's part, as none of the other drivers on the course were lagging out. So with that, he attempted to kick me before he gave up and left.

Later on in the same race, we got to the small S-curve about midway of the course. I usually cut in the curbs, but the other drivers attempted to do the same and, instead, ended up eating dirt. I assume they took the curbs at full throttle and had not eased off. They write in question; "how did u do that?".

I replied "Throttle control".

Of course, they said, "no u cheat," and left...

It's hard to find a relaxing room to race on nowadays (come on people gimme my kei-car race at the 'ring already!). Either someone has to be bound to sticking with schedules, or you eat the wallbangers' fury in the Open Lobbies... :indiff:
 

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