Does PD Want us to "Cheat"?

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EmptyBox_007
No, not like exploiting birthday cars and such. But this came to my thoughts earlier.

The GT series has always been strange in terms of difficulty. At the highest tier, the one that should be hardest logically, some of the races are pie, while at the lower end, some are not so simple. Licenses? Every license has had one of those challenges that just seems to require that much more than any other in it's class. I know in GT5, the S license was pie to gold, yet IC was by far the most challenging for me. I crushed the top tier of A Spec before the enduros, except Formula GT, where I was driving like a man possessed.

I consider myself fairly fast, 60/60 gold, nearly all Spec Events golded up to level 27 as well (Those not gold will be golded, just blasted through and haven't finished it off), I've been a GT fan since GT1, I've been through it all. Controllers were smashed at Mission 34 of GT4, but I did it. Fairly. 200 attempts later. (lol)

But I noticed something. GT5 in particular has the "win button" - Skid Recovery Force. Particularly with rally and some of the new seasonal events, it seems like they want us to use it. Face it, 95% of the people even here will not be golding a couple of them with legit fair driving. Wallriding or SRF, bumper cars to speed through an apex off a ricochet. Yet, turn on that magic bullet and presto, they become winnable - still require a decent drive - but possible. It's like they said "well, they could use this and go faster, so we better make sure we give those who have been using it a challenge still", forcing that for those in search of gold.

On one hand it's a challenge and that is great, but on the other hand it's absolutely positively absurd - Focus ST race where the AI gets a faster car + better tires + huge head start anyone? Okay, I'm a better driver than an AI, but are you serious? Do they think I'm the second coming of Ayrton Senna or what?

How about the convenient lack of punishment for cutting chicanes - such as the 2nd Chicane at Monza and the last Chicane at Nurburgring GP? Fly right on through at full speed off in the grass if you please, no reason not to? Deep Forest has that concrete patch (You could argue that one atleast) that will shave time off your lap for sure - again no reason not to. There are several other places you could if you really felt the urge to cut the track - all with no penalty of any kind.

Should I mention the horrible idea that making the default brake bias 50:50 thus forcing ABS unless you change it was?

They are doable, I won't lie and say that the events are impossible to do fairly. But at the same time, it really feels like PD wants us to turn the assists (Face it, SRF is a grip hack, it's a cheat) on, cut the track and make a charge.

GT isn't really a sim in my book, but - doing these seasonal events, I seriously feel like I'm playing NFS.

TL; DR - Anyone else get the feeling PD wants us to turn the assists / cheats on and start playing NFS instead of GT?

Yes, all my posts are long like this, I ramble lots.
 
Well, I think PD is trying to keep the fast players interested with challenging events. All while trying to maintain the slower people happy, by giving them an "easy mode" button. The Focus and the RX-7 challenges are a perfect example of how easy the game is if you switch it on.

Face it. These forums would implode if there was no SRF.
 
Well, I think PD is trying to keep the fast players interested with challenging events. All while trying to maintain the slower people happy, by giving them an "easy mode" button. The Focus and the RX-7 challenges are a perfect example of how easy the game is if you switch it on.

Face it. These forums would implode if there was no SRF.

This. Not everyone is a great racer. SRF keeps the playing field level for those that aren't the greatest tuners or racers, and still want to win.

I personally suck it up. How ever good I finish is how skillful I am. Competing in GT Academy showed me just how much I suck. So now I just keep practicing and accept the fact that I'm slower then some.
 
I think they want to reach a wider audience. I played gt 1-3 but skipped 4. Just got too hard. I dont have a wheel or the time to become a gold level driver. I still enjoy playing though and the aids have kept me into this game longer than any other GT.

Still I see your point. Just drive right and feel good about it. If ya gotta cut across some grass, well....
 
Well, I think PD is trying to keep the fast players interested with challenging events. All while trying to maintain the slower people happy, by giving them an "easy mode" button. The Focus and the RX-7 challenges are a perfect example of how easy the game is if you switch it on.

Face it. These forums would implode if there was no SRF.

But in my mind, it truthfully feels as if the Seasonal Events are based around SRF. Makes no sense how I can cake walk 4/5 events in both weeks races, but that 5th nearly requires me to turn on SRF and still drive a pretty darn solid race.

That just makes no sense, particularly when the high dollar races have been cake walks, and it's the low side that is like this - Fiat 500 + Focus. Walked them all outside those two and the RX7 event, which I know I can beat with some gearing and tuning if I really need the dough.

Here's 5 events, 4 are a decent challenge, 1 requires god skills or win button, no either or. Guess which it is. :dopey:

I have no problem with adding in SRF and those who use it regularly. I just think it's kind of absurd that it truthfully is the win button - I don't think some of the challenges would be set nearly where they are without it.
 
I had to use skid recovery in the last race of the Formula GT championship ( i needed first to win with the points and still only won by .109 seconds.)
but i feel like its a cheat.

I feel they just let us cheat on the races / there was not a hp / weight limit in most of the races in a-spec . (only tire restrictions ).

Call it what you want but the new seasonal races are not races ... its hop in your car and catch the leader who is x amount of seconds ahead.
A -Spec should of had the same car limitations as seasonal events ... so we would be actually forced to RACE !
 
I don't think some of the challenges would be set nearly where they are without it.

I agree. With these seasonal events it seems like the challenges are created while focusing on the SRF users. Then they just upload it to us without thinking about how demanding it might be without driving aids.
 
Not everyone is talented enough to gold everything. Get off your friggin high horse.
 
I feel everyone has a similar level of talent. I know I have a challenging time dealing with not getting the results I'm aiming for. I use the chicane at Monza, but I'm still open to looking at were I can improve. GT is a simulator to me, I'm glad its there when I want to learn. Also the replays I can download mean then most to me.
 
The game had an acceptable difficulty before the update, guess what, everyone complaint about the difficulty of the game,it seems to some people "too hard" so PD decided to make it easy.

Is all down to the community,they don't know what they want,for example everyone wanted back up files,this was given and then people complain of cloning accounts to make money,the same people that wanted back up files,so is all down to the person who is playing it,I know that people play Forza before GT5,that is a fact and FM games tended to be easier with the "all game settings before race starts",this and rewind made the game much easier.

People are finding out that wining a race is all down to true driving skills,not "manipulation game" driving skills,also adding to that the fact that there is a bunch of long length races and people do not have enough experience to make such races.

Some people say that the problem is the game,in example the whole topic of "rubbish AI"(topic that is flawed in my opinion since I pass all races thus far without any problems,even the F1 championship with the PD F1),or lousy damage and so on.

The fact is that people do not learn that racing is hard and they are not Senna,endurance racing and managing F1 levels of traction or grip,tuning the car and so on,is a complain similar to the COD4 too hard,is down to the player,not the game.

And the game difficulty is product of Egos hurted,the fact that you were a bad ass(or maybe not )and getting that realization that you are not is something that makes you think "is problem of the game"(example the whole forum spamming).

At the end real skill is needed to complete the game,that is a fact.
 
At the end real skill is needed to complete the game,that is a fact.

Which is precisely why they have included the win button and chicanes without something to slow people down / prevent them from cutting.

Seriously people, it isn't about "not being good enough", it's about the fact it isn't consistent - at all. Why would the lowest paying event with the slowest easiest to drive car be the most difficult? Why is A8 one of the most challenging licenses to Gold, yet S class as a whole is simple as could be? It seriously feels like they have a dedicated aids race.

That just makes no sense to me. I'm eager to see the next set of events to see if the same holds true of 4/5 races being doable and the 5th being pure craziness.

Challenge is good, challenge is great. There is a fine line between challenge and punishment that PD seems to miss. HSR w/ Countach is a challenge, giving the Toyota 7 a 10 second head start would be punishment. That is precisely what the Focus race is. Only this time you can't even have the better tires.
 
Well you can't please everyone, if you make the main game fairly easy you upset the hardcore gamers, if you make it for the hardcore gamers the casuals will get too frustrated. I feel its a good balance the way it is, it has its difficult moments but is easily approachable by all. The latest batch of seasonal races present a challenge thats for sure, guess who these races are aimed at? Hardest races for me so far are a couple of the mercedes special events, the F gt championship and vettel x2010 challenge (proud of my bronze non B spec x1 :p)
 
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Well the community is not a monolith period, there are hard core sim racers playing gt5 and then there are people that gt5 may be their first "sim" driving game ever.

So there is a very wide gulf between the can drive sims in their sleep crowd and the i can barely drive a car in real life crowd, and lets face it in some way sims are harder to drive than real life since you are wholly lacking in much of the normal input a car gives out on the road. SO even if you are a god in real life sim driving takes a bit of getting used to.

But either way pd has to toe a line between keeping all sides happy, so some events are going to be easy and some events are going to be hard so they appeal to everyone and do not turn too many people off about them.
 
Sony wants to sell games. PD wants to make the perfect "driving simulator". Games sell alot more copies than hardcore sims. Sony holds PD's reins. Guess which one wins out.

Which is not a criticism of GT5's physics. I love the physics, and I will never turn on SRF even though some of my trophies are silver.
 
While it is a legit point, some people new to the series such as me, are not that good at racing games yet. This is my first and while I'm having a blast at playing it, frankly I pretty much suck. So while it may seem like cheating to you, its a requirement for some players.
 
There is defenately lots of variation in difficulty levels required to pass certain parts of the game. Some are so easy it's not even possible to not get gold. And some are really finicky. Most of it is really easy though.

The hardest thing so far was probably the aston martin braking test. And the other braking tests. The rx7/tsukuba was difficult too without skid force.

A-spec as a whole is really easy. Even by picking slower cars they are still easy. It is kind of hard to know how fast car should you take into those races because all you know is the hp numbers of your opporents and maybe the type of the tires you need to use. And if you lack hp the ai will bump into you. If you lack grip the ai will bump into you. The ai drives at times so oddly that it isn't even fun racing them. Brake checking on corner exits is a prime example why the ai needs seriously more work.


One thing also is the skill levels and the equipment what people use in their homes to play gt5. Especially people who are using wheel and pedals can more easily control the car imho. Then you may have some really good controller users. And then some sunday gamers who want to just drive around. You can't setup one difficult level for everyone and expect everyone to be happy. But if you even make one or two events hard you still still have people complaining.

Personally I think the biggest fail for gt5 is the difficulty levels. For sim racers it is too easy. For average gamers with controllers it can easily be frustrating.

There are many thing I would ave done differently in gt5. One is the whole concept of difficulty. The more difficult settings and slower car you are using the more credits you should get from winning. Everyone should be able to win the events and a-spec. But not at hardest settings. And people shouldn't need to be feeling guilty for using the driving aids ("cheating"). The aids are there to help you drive better. But the game should reward you for not using those. At the moment it rewards you if you use them.

There are few things which are similarly broken in gt5 but the whole concept of difficulty of the game (or the lack of it) is the most obvius one for me.
 
I think maybe a combination of both its hard to please both crowds but I think that's what polyphony is trying to do
 
While it is a legit point, some people new to the series such as me, are not that good at racing games yet. This is my first and while I'm having a blast at playing it, frankly I pretty much suck. So while it may seem like cheating to you, its a requirement for some players.

Why is it an "requirement"?

You are still playing the game no matter where you finishes.
 
I agree with OP. I can see that the SRF is there for non seasoned GT players and maybe those of us who are but need a tad more help.
I hate to think of myself as a cheat and therefore haven't used it so far, saying that i'm only on Lvl22 and have raced mainly online.
I think it's up the the individual whether or not they want aides to help them and for those of us who are lucky enough not to need them we can take pride in knowing we don't use them.
 
copied from my another post:

I really hate this SRF, to me it's a community divider, skill level nullifier, and a smack in the face to the "best console sim" marque, years of work on improving the physics is drained away with ONE push of a button.

It is more arcade and more evil than the rewind button on Forza 3.

Look at what we have, tire modelling and damage that doesn't work properly in the main career mode, unrestricted racing events, rubberbanding AI, is this the best sim on console should be?

Difficulty curve and mass market appeal should be created with the design of the races, AI strength, and track complexity, I agree with the above the difficulty curve in relation to the car choice is way off, a fiat 500 race shouldn't be harder than a race in full fledge racing machines.

But I appraud most choices they make for the seasonal races, as I really feel they have tested it and make it just possible for those who are really fast, while still handing out huge amount of bonus for those finishing in silver, and they let you get silver pretty easily.
 
What if gamers just rewarded themselves for playing well. What if gamers just recognized their own skills and continued to work on getting better, regardless of Credits, Xps, and Records. If a person can do it all, perhaps try real racing.
 
The more difficult settings and slower car you are using the more credits you should get from winning. Everyone should be able to win the events and a-spec .......... But the game should reward you for not using those. At the moment it rewards you if you use them.

Genius idea. Allow me to steal it and elaborate.:guilty:
The game should suggest a BHP range for each event ( or better still, a power to weight ratio ) and assume you'll be using maybe 2 driving aids. For each additional aid you use, perhaps you lose 5% of the xp and cash rewards, choose just ABS and you get 5% extra, use none - gain 10%.
Use an overpowered car and maybe lose another 1% of the payouts for each 10 bhp you exceed the suggested figure by. Conversely, the best players, capable of winning races without aids and with an underpowered, but well set-up car would be rewarded by 5%, 10% or whatever extra for using such.
Before you started a race, you could be shown a "difficulty score" based on your choice of vehicle and the aids chosen. We could have trophies for winning events with ridiculously high difficulty scores.
It would also make the grinding more fun, as currently, to maximise the rate of earning, you use the fastest car you can just to get the job done which means it's never really a close race. If the rewards for using underpowered cars were balanced right, then the best vehicle to pick for grinding would be one that you could only just about win the race with...which surely would be more fun?
There, I've fixed everything.:)
 
Snippidie doo da.

Essentially bring back the A Spec Points from GT4, but tie them in before you get to the race and base the reward off of those points. Good idea.
 
This. Not everyone is a great racer. SRF keeps the playing field level for those that aren't the greatest tuners or racers, and still want to win.

I personally suck it up. How ever good I finish is how skillful I am. Competing in GT Academy showed me just how much I suck. So now I just keep practicing and accept the fact that I'm slower then some.

Well said mate 👍
 
I have a question. How much is using TC considered cheating? I haven't used SRF yet and I certainly don't plan to, but is it considered a sign of lesser skill to have to depend on TC sometimes?
 
What seems unfair to me is that Skid Recovery Force has no drawbacks, it just gives you more grip, from where? Unlike TC and ABS which both have advantages and disadvantages SRF has no such thing, adding weight to your car or making it lose some power could fix this, tell me something, anything which in real life gives you more grip without any drawback? I can see the point of the casual gamers, but this game is supposed to be the ''Real Driving Simulator'', when I started playing sim games I was bad, but instead of giving up, I tried to improve.
 
TC is not considered that much of a cheat since it slows the cars down, but anti skid far as anyone can tell really does not hamper the car at all while making it much easier to keep a car on the road.
 
I don't necessarily think it's cheating, I think having these features allow GT5 to reach a wider audience in addition to giving the hardcore racers a chance to challenge themselves by disabling some if not all of these features. Just because the features are there doesn't mean that you have to use them. Atleast the features are optional rather than manditory. Besides, how can something be considered cheating when it's perfectly "legal" (so to speak) within the game? If it's that big of a concern in online play, why not just setup a room that disables the option to use some if not all assists?
 
Wait, A8 was hard to gold but the S license wasn't? Funny, I think the opposite.

I've no issue with any aids, and I only used them for the nascar seasonal. Everything else is always off except ABS at 1.
 
Sure it has been said before but ¿why not to have bronze, silver, gold and platinum? Platinum with the same time as gold but forced no assists at all (maybe only abs and tcs). This will make the difference. It's not necessary to give exp or credits. I'm sure most people will try to get platinum only for the plaissure.
 
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