Done with sport mode but now debating SR rules

  • Thread starter Thread starter Marckyboy
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Marckyboy

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Doing the 10 lap race today, car intentionally rammed me off first corner on lap 6, I got stuck in the gravel car wouldn't he track to track and ingot disqualified, he got nothing and it wasn't like it cut him up or anything, he was over 2 seconds behind and hit me at full speed. There is no excuse for their algorithm not spotting that. Must have then been a bug that then ment I was stuck in the gravel and couldn't get back on track.

So so annoyed
 
I'm enjoying sport mode quite a bit. The GR.4 races the other day at Bathhurst were my favorite so far.

I just wish @IanBell could implement some fast matched races like these in Project Cars so we could enjoy them with some proper physics and FOV adjustments.
 
Ha the chap who rammed me off just sent me a message saying learn how to drive. How very childish.
 
It can be frustrating for sure... "people" "internet tough guys" ... what do you do?
I try and enjoy the good moments/races, and when silly stuff happens chalk it up as folks who need internet "wins" to make them feel good/important/strong/relevant.
I tell myself I'm better than that, especially in real life, which is what really matters and carry on.
 
cleanLX
It can be frustrating for sure... "people" "internet tough guys" ... what do you do?
I try and enjoy the good moments/races, and when silly stuff happens chalk it up as folks who need internet "wins" to make them feel good/important/strong/relevant.
I tell myself I'm better than that, especially in real life, which is what really matters and carry on.
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Agreed deleted message, no reply and will play again tomorrow. Annoying that I was stuck in gravel and so disqualified which demoted me from b to c Dr rating when no fault of mine but oh well.
 
baldgye
Oh, so this thread was literally pointless then?
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Well I'm not back yet and it wasn't pointless at the time of asking but was maybe more fueled by anger!

Things are much better once you calm down but this was the fia race so they need to do something about this before they move to real seasons.
 
Better to make a pointless thread than break a controller, or the game disc. The internet has saved me a lot of money. I used to buy spare mice just in case my hammer accidentally pulverized one when the ball got stuck at the wrong time losing me hours if not days of gameplay in EQ.

I stay away from the FIA races as you can only do them once. At least with daily races you can always stop after a good experience or quit out and go back to qualifying or tv when there's a bunch of jokers in the room, then matchmaking will usually put you with a different crowd.
 
bonusbertie
Almost as childish as coming onto a forum to rant to everyone how you're done with a computer game because something unfair happened?

That level of childish? ;)
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Well I think ranting is better than acting to be honest but each to their own.

I would prefer he or she ranted after rather than ruining my fia race!
 
Marckyboy
Agreed deleted message, no reply and will play again tomorrow. Annoying that I was stuck in gravel and so disqualified which demoted me from b to c Dr rating when no fault of mine but oh well.
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Could be worse. Could be C sr. Shudders. NEVER AGAIN.
 
Marckyboy
Well I'm not back yet and it wasn't pointless at the time of asking but was maybe more fueled by anger!

Things are much better once you calm down but this was the fia race so they need to do something about this before they move to real seasons.
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The FIA races have been a well documented **** show for the vast majority though... I lost two SR ranks in my first and only event.

It in no way reflects Sport mode which has largely been a joy.


Like if your done with the game, that’s fine and if you want to moan then that’s fine too, I’m not a mod and I’m not trying to decry the rules... just a forum is suppose to inspire debate, this is just a Kevin and Perry style “ugh life’s so UNFAIR!”

But then, maybe this whole post was pointless...
 
Marckyboy
Ha the chap who rammed me off just sent me a message saying learn how to drive. How very childish.
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It's more likely he blames you for the incident (or for something leading up to it).
 
Got to agree on the algorithm. Doesn't help we all pretend it's perfect. We not horses with one-sided views. PD must be made aware so it can be approved. That's what a proper fan of the game would want. Continuous improvement. Not ridicule or defensive sarcasm against someone when they voice their frustrations because you deep up PD alley.

I have multiple experiences getting rammed full speed from behind or caught between two cars driving like **** but I get penalised with 2 seconds and SR drops.

It needs to be improved period.
 
EbrahimOsman
Got to agree on the algorithm. Doesn't help we all pretend it's perfect. We not horses with one-sided views. PD must be made aware so it can be approved. That's what a proper fan of the game would want. Continuous improvement. Not ridicule or defensive sarcasm against someone when they voice their frustrations because you deep up PD alley.

I have multiple experiences getting rammed full speed from behind or caught between two cars driving like **** but I get penalised with 2 seconds and SR drops.

It needs to be improved period.
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Agreed, let's make the post meaningful, there is no reason PD cant calculate and penalise someone who drives into a car with no braking input at all at say over 100 mph incase they are using then throttle to control speed in a fast corner. There is never a reason to allow that so ghost them and disqualify them outright.

Can we think of any more examples?
 
So im driving along the straight at over 100mph and someone swerves into my path and I hit them?

I don't know how short the braking distance is from above 100mph to safe corner speed on every corner for every car, and then change it for every bop change to weight, would take forever to code. If coded, people could still brake check or linger in corners.
 
JacksHerer
So im driving along the straight at over 100mph and someone swerves into my path and I hit them?

I don't know how short the braking distance is from above 100mph to safe corner speed on every corner for every car, and then change it for every bop change to weight, would take forever to code. If coded, people could still brake check or linger in corners.
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Maybe only apply the rule in the corner braking zone after the double cones? Not saying it's even possible but let's suggest ideas?
 
I find getting rear ended normally happens when there is a queue in the braking zones, so the queues rear car isn't in the braking zone when it gets smashed into and domino effects till someone goes off or someone has left a safe gap to the car ahead and can absorb the punt.
 
JacksHerer
I find getting rear ended normally happens when there is a queue in the braking zones, so the queues rear car isn't in the braking zone when it gets smashed into and domino effects till someone goes off or someone has left a safe gap to the car ahead and can absorb the punt.
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In my example it really was one car on his own who intentionally rammed me off the track and then messaged me after to tell me so. Totally get sometimes you are rammed into the car in front and I get it may not be possible to improve the algorithm, but they have to find away to stop or punish people who intentionally smash a car off the road even if after the race.

Even if you feel hard done by there is no excuse for running a car off the road. I do actually think real damage could sort it as it removes the incentive to crash as you would be unlikely to be able to continue if you do smash into a car at high speed
 
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Damage is not a solution as there are many ways to crash people with minimal damage to your own car.

A system that makes you give back the position would deter people from dirty overtakes as it won't get them anywhere. Ignore it, then dq. However then it first needs to be able to distinguish between the attacker initiating the contact and the defender blocking in a dirty way. Otherwise you could simply tap a car trying to overtake to stop them.

AI needs to sort out the best driving lines all the time in different circumstances. It shouldn't be that hard for the server to calculate the ideal lines for cars going through a corner. The person that deviates too much from their predicted path is likely the one at fault. Steering input at the time of the incident is a good indicator as well, as well as follow up actions. Back off or keep pushing.

First they need to sort out secondary contact penalties. Getting punted into another car to take a 10 sec penalty needs to go. The first car needs to get that penalty or double if he effects multiple cars.

Actually first they need to replace those 2 useless etiquette videos with a bunch of driving lessons about who has the right to the apex in corners and when you need to leave room for the other car(s).
 
Sven Jurgens
Damage is not a solution as there are many ways to crash people with minimal damage to your own car.

A system that makes you give back the position would deter people from dirty overtakes as it won't get them anywhere. Ignore it, then dq. However then it first needs to be able to distinguish between the attacker initiating the contact and the defender blocking in a dirty way. Otherwise you could simply tap a car trying to overtake to stop them.

AI needs to sort out the best driving lines all the time in different circumstances. It shouldn't be that hard for the server to calculate the ideal lines for cars going through a corner. The person that deviates too much from their predicted path is likely the one at fault. Steering input at the time of the incident is a good indicator as well, as well as follow up actions. Back off or keep pushing.

First they need to sort out secondary contact penalties. Getting punted into another car to take a 10 sec penalty needs to go. The first car needs to get that penalty or double if he effects multiple cars.

Actually first they need to replace those 2 useless etiquette videos with a bunch of driving lessons about who has the right to the apex in corners and when you need to leave room for the other car(s).
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Agreed, replace the videos with tests, we could all then learn exactly what PD deam correct Vs incorrect
 
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I’ve been saying this: it’s difficult to automatically detect blame on a collision, but a bad, crazy, ram-headed driver is very unlikely to hit one guy then go through the rest of the race clean.

If you reward the clean drivers enough to offset getting punted, you can create the separation in SR rating. You can even make ramming a much bigger SR hit because then the rammed player will be able to make it up by driving clean. And add multipliers for full laps without going off the track, etc...

Your rammers will drop in SR rating quickly.

You will need to adjust the levels, by making it more difficult to get up into A and S.
 
Marckyboy
Doing the 10 lap race today, car intentionally rammed me... There is no excuse for their algorithm not spotting that....
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There is no excuse for the algorithm not spotting INTENT? I think you need to learn more about algorithms and how they work.
 
gmaki
There is no excuse for the algorithm not spotting INTENT? I think you need to learn more about algorithms and how they work.
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Intent in this case was driving into a corner full throttle without brake input and punting a car off track. As a programmer even I could code that scenario. Easy with only 2 cars involved, appreciate way more difficult with more than one contact. Not sure I get your point though, intent can be calculated in the same way we do after the event
 
Marckyboy
Intent in this case was driving into a corner full throttle without brake input and punting a car off track. As a programmer even I could code that scenario. Easy with only 2 cars involved, appreciate way more difficult with more than one contact. Not sure I get your point though, intent can be calculated in the same way we do after the event
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Define "corner" ?

Once corner is defined, describe how an algorithm knows when you are "in" a corner. Or doesn't it need to know when you are braking to set up for a corner? So doesn't that braking mostly occur NOT in a corner? Ok, how much of the straight before the corner do we now consider to be part of the corner? And if you can do that, then what about the different braking distances for different cars? Does the algorithm need to know that? Does the algorithm need to account of BOP, tire wear, other factors?

Just starting down the road of figuring out intent seems pretty complex to me.
 
gmaki
Define "corner" ?

Once corner is defined, describe how an algorithm knows when you are "in" a corner. Or doesn't it need to know when you are braking to set up for a corner? So doesn't that braking mostly occur NOT in a corner? Ok, how much of the straight before the corner do we now consider to be part of the corner? And if you can do that, then what about the different braking distances for different cars? Does the algorithm need to know that? Does the algorithm need to account of BOP, tire wear, other factors?

Just starting down the road of figuring out intent seems pretty complex to me.
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Yeah that's all easy to work out as all based in fact. Trust me I do far more complicated calculations then this and use AI day to day. It's not as difficult as you may think. Play out the many scenarios and you could teach an AI to be a steward. Right or wrong as long as the rules are clear before then it's the same for all. Leave the contentious stuff but there will be some easy things you can put rules on.

Eg car in braking zone ( after double cones) hit by car behind with no braking input means penalty for car behind. No excuse as even if you cannot break in time there should be some braking effort. Either that or cones are misplaced.
 
Let’s see you get your easy day to day AI running in the remaining available RAM on the PlayStation 4 while GT is humming along at full load.

Marckyboy
Yeah that's all easy to work out as all based in fact. Trust me I do far more complicated calculations then this and use AI day to day. It's not as difficult as you may think. Play out the many scenarios and you could teach an AI to be a steward. Right or wrong as long as the rules are clear before then it's the same for all. Leave the contentious stuff but there will be some easy things you can put rules on.

Eg car in braking zone ( after double cones) hit by car behind with no braking input means penalty for car behind. No excuse as even if you cannot break in time there should be some braking effort. Either that or cones are misplaced.
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Marckyboy
Yeah that's all easy to work out as all based in fact. Trust me I do far more complicated calculations then this and use AI day to day. It's not as difficult as you may think. Play out the many scenarios and you could teach an AI to be a steward. Right or wrong as long as the rules are clear before then it's the same for all. Leave the contentious stuff but there will be some easy things you can put rules on.

Eg car in braking zone ( after double cones) hit by car behind with no braking input means penalty for car behind. No excuse as even if you cannot break in time there should be some braking effort. Either that or cones are misplaced.
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Wow, what an impressive resume. If Polyphony has just hired you the game would be perfect. Someone should let them know.
 
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