Don't you think Nissan GT-R is too fast in this game?

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andreadg89
I've done some research but couldn't find anything on this topic, so...

I'm doing some car test on the Nurburgring GP/D with stock cars on Sport Hard Tires, just to compare the lap times between these supercars in stock conditions, and noticed that the GT-R is a lot faster than some other overpowered cars, even if they are lighter than the GT-R :

1:38.167 Nissan GT-R
1:38.875 Lexus LFA
1:38.988 Ferrari 430 Scuderia
1:39.334 Ferrari 599
1:39.762 Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro

The gt-r has less HP (between 20-100) and is heavier (at least by 300-400 kg) than all the other cars, but still is the fastest in terms of lap time. How it can be possible? I can think at only one reason : The GT-R has a better stock set-up than the other cars, but still is a lot strange to me... What do you think?
 
Its pretty accurate actually.

The GT-R has some of the fastest times ever by a production car at Nordschleife.

It did a 7.24 which compares to a 7.32 for the 458 Italia......R8 did a 7.44......LFA 7.38.

I would actually say the game favors the R8 when modded far too much.
 
I just read gtr '07 description in the garage page. There was info about some extra boost at mid range/driving out of corners. Could that be it?
 
The GTR is really fast.

Here's real top gear lap times.

1:19.7 - Nissan GT-R
1:22.8 - Lexus LFA (wet)
1:19.7 - Ferrari 430 Scuderia
1:21.2 - Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
1:21.6 - Audi R8 V10
 
I do know that the GTR from the articles I have read is a very good handling car, often shifting through corners like a car 500kg lighter. Also, the GTR even in real life accelerates faster than its power to weight ratio would suggest. This has something to do with very quick gear changes, and the quoted power figures of the car being very conservative.

the real GTR has done a real 7:24 at the ring, that is quicker than allot of faster cars I have seen.

As for your test results, not sure how realistic they are, but make no mistake the GTR is a very capable car, and is oftn compared with cars like the ones you have listed above, including also the 911 Turbo, Corvette ZR1.
 
shadowspring
Its pretty accurate actually.

The GT-R has some of the fastest times ever by a production car at Nordschleife.

It did a 7.24 which compares to a 7.32 for the 458 Italia......R8 did a 7.44......LFA 7.38.

I would actually say the game favors the R8 when modded far too much.
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Yeah, I know that the GT-R has one of the best lap times on Nordschleife, but it's a lot strange, and makes me think that Nissan used a tuned and properly preparred car for that lap time, because its weight is 1740 Kg, compared with the other cars is a lot... Add the fact that is even less powerful than other cars, and it makes it even more strange IMHO...

EDIT : I've just read your answers guys, and I really begin to believe that Nissan just made a great car, despite it's heavy and less powerful than other cars :lol: So, the question at this point is : what could be the causes that makes this car so fast?
 
Also the GTR have a very advanced computer system helping you drive the car in real and probably some sticky tyre. I dunno about the other cars but I know that there was a lot of discussion on tyre component when they did the nurb record.
 
what could be the causes that makes this car so fast?
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Computers. It's not a driver's car, it's a Playstation car, basically.

That's why it's often described as a boring/soul less car, unlike some other cars (high powered RWD machines) where its the driver who sets the limits.
 
dark_ruffo
Computers. It's not a driver's car, it's a Playstation car, basically.

That's why it's often described as a boring/soul less car, unlike some other cars (high powered RWD machines) where its the driver who sets the limits.
Click to expand...

I noticed that it's a lot easier to drive compared with the other cars I tried, even in the game you can feel the difference...
 
Andy89
Yeah, I know that the GT-R has one of the best lap times on Nordschleife, but it's a lot strange, and makes me think that Nissan used a tuned and properly preparred car for that lap time, because its weight is 1740 Kg, compared with the other cars is a lot... Add the fact that is even less powerful than other cars, and it makes it even more strange IMHO...

EDIT : I've just read your answers guys, and I really begin to believe that Nissan just made a great car, despite it's heavy and less powerful than other cars :lol: So, the question at this point is : what could be the causes that makes this car so fast?
Click to expand...

Its a wonderfully engineered car.

Remember Nissan spent many years developing the GT-R and it flat out shows.

BTW.....the GT-R has many of the fastest laps at Nurburgring. Its done it time and again.
 
Andy89
I've just read your answers guys, and I really begin to believe that Nissan just made a great car, despite it's heavy and less powerful than other cars :lol: So, the question at this point is : what could be the causes that makes this car so fast?
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Lots and lots of fancy electronics.
If that is good or bad depends on your point of view. Lap times don't lie though, it's fast.
 
That's because 458 Italia doesn't have the ability to floor it in the mid corner without spinning.. Also, as a MR, it's a lot more nervous at the limit.
 
shadowspring
Its not just computers my man.

The 458 Italia probably has even more advanced electronics in it and still can't match the GT-R.
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Then what is it? Nearly every review has stated it's because of the advanced electronics controlling the AWD, etc. Every modern mass produced car has computers up the wazoo so I wasn't insulting the car, but when just about everyone says that the computers make it faster, I'll believe them.
 
The GTR is a beast, plain and simple. Nissan spent years developing the car, honing in every aspect to try to make the very best car possible. Why do you think it's been referred to as the supercar killer? For its price, it can hang with cars that are 4-5x as expensive. Ive rode shotgun in a GTR with a pro-driver around the local track, nothing Ive rode in compares to it, and Ive rode in some very expensive cars (including some race prepped cars), it handles amazingly.
 
Wanna race?
stock-dodge-viper-acr-taken-for-a-ride-at-bonneville-salt-flats.jpg
 
freedomweasel
Then what is it? Nearly every review has stated it's because of the advanced electronics controlling the AWD, etc. Every modern mass produced car has computers up the wazoo so I wasn't insulting the car, but when just about everyone says that the computers make it faster, I'll believe them.
Click to expand...

Sure the electronics make the GT-R substantially faster. Take it off and the car will be far less.

However, these other cars have electronics too and in some cases even more advanced systems.

Its not just the electronics!

Its spectacular engineering on the part of Nissan, years of development, and the awesome electronics on the car.

Think about this...... imagine if Nissan stripped it down to its bones say to 1300 or 1400 kg (if that is possible) and went to the track.........

You'd be looking at by far the fastest production car of all time on a track by a wide margin.

Also, the car looks great! I have a couple of them in game and even with the stock paints (I love the opel black) IMO are the best looking cars i own.
 
the GT-R is fast because the dual clutch gearbox.. twin turbo power.. and all wheel drive.. plus Nissans amazing engineering.. it all allows the car to be very quick and very consistent.. i havent driven mine in quite a while (when i do the glitch i dont use my car.. for obvious reasons.. look at the front end after you go through the wall..) but when i use it.. its VERY easy to push REALLY hard.
 
race'emhard
Wanna race?
stock-dodge-viper-acr-taken-for-a-ride-at-bonneville-salt-flats.jpg
Click to expand...


I think Tom Coronel in the GT-R will smoke his time he put up in the Viper.

Also, I think we can all agree that Viper is a borderline production car. The thing has adjustable suspension and race car aero. The result is incredible but is a bit unfair to use as a comparison.
 
shadowspring
Sure the electronics make the GT-R substantially faster. Take it off and the car will be far less.

However, these other cars have electronics too and in some cases even more advanced systems.

Its not just the electronics!

Its spectacular engineering on the part of Nissan, years of development, and the awesome electronics on the car.

Think about this...... imagine if Nissan stripped it down to its bones say to 1300 or 1400 kg (if that is possible) and went to the track.........

You'd be looking at by far the fastest production car of all time on a track by a wide margin.

Also, the car looks great! I have a couple of them in game and even with the stock paints (I love the opel black) IMO are the best looking cars i own.
Click to expand...

If you stripped all the weight out of the GT-R it would be an entirely different car, and thus you are hypothesizing performance for an imaginary car. If you took the AWD, dual clutch, torque vectoring, etc out of the GTR what would you have left? Arguably, not a GTR.

Again, I'm not saying the GTR is a turd with a super computer in it making it faster. It's an incredibly fast car, and an enormously large portion of the speed comes from advanced electronics. I haven't read a single review about the car that didn't say this. I have no reason to believe otherwise. Electronics make modern super cars faster, that's how it is. The new McLaren has incredibly sophisticated suspension, but it'd be useless with the computer telling it what to do.

Why is this an argument? What makes the 458's electronics "more advanced"?
 
Andy89
Yeah, I know that the GT-R has one of the best lap times on Nordschleife, but it's a lot strange, and makes me think that Nissan used a tuned and properly preparred car for that lap time, because its weight is 1740 Kg, compared with the other cars is a lot... Add the fact that is even less powerful than other cars, and it makes it even more strange IMHO...

EDIT : I've just read your answers guys, and I really begin to believe that Nissan just made a great car, despite it's heavy and less powerful than other cars :lol: So, the question at this point is : what could be the causes that makes this car so fast?
Click to expand...

As most of us are aware, the exit is the most important phase of the corner. If you have a good exit, you will be able to carry more speed with you onto the straight after the corner.

The GT-R seems almost singularly devoted to corner exit. Of course, awd was designed with that in mind, going all the way back to the days of Group B rallying. The GT-R's system is one of the most advanced drivetrains in the world.

The GT-R's Dunlop run-flat tires have grip rivaling that of trackday r-compound tires, and are constantly being revised. The tires allow the GT-R to put up impressive mid-corner speeds, carrying more speed through to the important exit phase. The 2012 GT-R is on the 3rd generation tire now. On a sidenote, Nissan knew they couldn't reduce weight by a significant amount and still have a reasonable price. They took advantage of this by making made sure that the weight of the car would force the maximum contact patch of the tire onto the ground for the best traction.

The GT-R also has very short gearing. The top speeds of early models were in the low 190mph range, where the competition was more focused on top speed. However, the short ratios, especially in the lower gears, makes for fantastic acceleration out of the corners. The GR6 transmission's dual-clutch ensures rapid shifts as well.

The GT-R's powerplant, while needing to be revved, has very quick spool-up from its turbos due to their being integrated with the turbo manifold. This makes boost readily available by the time the car is ready to exit the corner.

Add these factors together, and you have a cornering monster that catapults the driver onto the straights.

While unrelated to corner exit, the GT-R's aerodynamics play an important role as well. They wanted to keep the shape of the GT-R 'clean,' with minimal drag. They took advantage of the windshield and shaped it in a way that it could act as a 'wing' of sorts and provide downforce. The flat underbody also provides 'clean' downforce without drag.

The Corvette ZR1 also uses similar aerodynamic principles. In contrast, the Viper ACR does not, and it shows in how the car has a lower top speed than the standard SRT-10 due to drag.
http://www.insideline.com/dodge/viper/2008/2008-dodge-viper-acr-from-la-to-bonneville-and-back.html
 
freedomweasel
If you stripped all the weight out of the GT-R it would be an entirely different car, and thus you are hypothesizing performance for an imaginary car. If you took the AWD, dual clutch, torque vectoring, etc out of the GTR what would you have left? Arguably, not a GTR.

Again, I'm not saying the GTR is a turd with a super computer in it making it faster. It's an incredibly fast car, and an enormously large portion of the speed comes from advanced electronics. I haven't read a single review about the car that didn't say this. I have no reason to believe otherwise. Electronics make modern super cars faster, that's how it is. The new McLaren has incredibly sophisticated suspension, but it'd be useless with the computer telling it what to do.

Why is this an argument? What makes the 458's electronics "more advanced"?
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I don't know if its "more" advanced but they Ferrari did put every bit of F1 tech into the thing.

Here is some info regarding the 458's electronics.

"There’s a lot to be said for the mechanical purity of an un-aided supercar. The fewer computers you have on board, the lighter the car can be and the connection between driver and machine can be more profound. There’s nothing like a little power-on oversteer unhindered by a nannying computer. Unless your last name is Fangio or Senna, however, purity won’t make you faster. Thus, Ferrari has given the 458 Italia more electronic aides than your average air traffic control tower to make sure you and it get around your favorite track as fast as possible. Maranello started by having the same ECU control the E-Diff and F1-Trac transmission and differential systems to minimize communication time between the two crucial components. They also connected aspects of the ABS system to the same ECU to keep every part of the car that handles stability in close contact.

To keep everything as stable as possible, the E-Diff thinks like the F1Trac whether the F1Trac is on or off, to help increase power off and power on stability all the time. The E-Diff 3 delivers much improved torqu distribution as compared to older versions, which improve corner exit speeds, grip, road holding and makes on-the-limit handling more tractable and progressive. That sounds like a lot of nannying, but Ferrari says it helps the smallest Ferrari get around Fiorano in a scant 1m 25s."

It's not just electronics in the GT-R making it a beast. The car has to be a great car for the electronics to do its thing.

The GT-R is a beast cause of its total package.
 
Surely the AWD is gonna be the main factor? Off the line/corner exit is gonna be where the GTR will have a good advantage?
 
If a cars performance was only defined by the power, weight, where the engine is and which wheels it drives the world would need about 99% less automotive engineers than it currently has.

Think of all the things you can tweak in the settings in GT5 and the difference it makes and then think of all the options available to a design department starting with a blank sheet of paper. The GT-Rs capability is entirely credibly given the intent of the designers.

Whether computing power and electronic differentials float your boat or not you at least have to respect the GT-R as an engineering achievement.
 
I think this game is racist and so is this kaz guy, let me start off with that there are over 600 Japanese cars in this game and a little over 100 euro same goes for the us cars. There are over 20 permium nissans while the other makes range from 1 car to the mid 10s. With this logic yes the gtr definatly has a little something something hiddin in there so its just a little bit faster.

STOP BEING RACIST KAZ!
 
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It honestly wouldn't be hard for GT5 to favor the GT-R in some tiny way that adds up to a multi second lap time advantage. I say this because the power to weight ratio does not correspond to the lap times.

No matter how sophisticated the simulation of GT5, and with all aids off, etc, it still isn't exactly reality. A "fudge factor" as we say in engineering must be added to make the simulation reflect the reality of the actual cars to prevent wildly unrealistic results. Furthermore, in real life weather, humidity, tire pressure, driver (of course) can create more variability than the settings they do allow us to change in-game.

This said, PD can't just create the simulation and expect the results in the game to be real-world accurate, there MUST be a modifier in the algorithms! This modifier is where a car can be favored relative to others. It might be a minuscule amount of extra grip or throttle response, just speculating here.

Hell, even car magazines get a ringer to test every now and then! Bending the rules happens in real life racing all the time, and sometimes the teams get caught! This is why cars that win real races can be torn down, weighed or whatever. PD may have slipped in a ringer here with the GT-R in a subtle way. There is no doubt that the GT-R has a special connection with Gran Turismo and Kaz so this favoritism might be homage to the real car, which has a display designed by PD.

Don't take this as a slam, I love the game, the car and the simulation. I'm just imagining why the GT-R has a performance that doesn't seem to fit in with the numbers the game shows us (weight, HP, etc.)
 

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