Drafting -- still kind of wacky, even on low

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chuyler1

chuyler1

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chuyler1
I don't think I've ever seen an auto racing event where two cars draft and battle for the lead and a 3rd tailing behind car is able to slingshot past them. I know PD made some changes but it still causes some wacky 3-wide situations that simply wouldn't happen in real life.

What is right:
  • 1-on-1 battles provide just enough boost to close a gap or increase speed enough to complete a pass by the end of the straight.
  • Cars following single file seem to have equal draft until someone catches someone else. (the chain of cars slowly catches the leader in the pack)

What is wrong:
  • The distance from which the draft is activated at certain speeds.
  • The depreciation of the draft benefit after stepping out, and lack of depreciation of cars following the car that stepped out.

To elaborate on the wrongs, It just seems odd that you need to back off considerably when exiting a turn to get enough boost to pass. And if two cars are drafting a leader, and both step out to pass, the car in 3rd shouldn't be getting enough boost to pass the other two cars unless the straight were incredibly long. The way it works now, as soon as the car in 2nd steps out, the car in 3rd can slingshot both 1st and 2nd place cars with very little effort. Maybe I'm not watching the right IRL races but usually there is barely enough time for the car in 2nd to complete the pass let alone time for a 3rd car to blow past the entire battle.
 
Happens all the time in NASCAR and Indycar

Can you be more precise, what speeds are you talking about?
 
chuyler1
What is wrong:
  • The depreciation of the draft benefit after stepping out, and lack of depreciation of cars following the car that stepped out.
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This is definitely the most noticeable.. once a draft stops being a draft and starts being an overtake, the car handles as if it's still drafting temporarily and it's especially bad if you had drafted 2 cars. It's even mentioned in the NASCAR special event that you will get a larger bonus for drafting 2 cars as opposed to just 1.. which has too much of an arcade feel but what are we really going to do about it if they don't add an option for "real"? I'm sure race enthusiasts would appreciate an option like that (hint hint PD).
 
eran0004
Happens all the time in NASCAR and Indycar

Can you be more precise, what speeds are you talking about?
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100-120 mph. Specifically, GVE-R in a spec Toyota 86.

I watch quite a bit of nascar and aside from the speed dating at 200+ mph, I don't see many cases where a battle down the straight between two cars gets shunned by a 3rd car...unless we're talking lap traffic.
 
Sad to say it but it appears Sony is steering PD in NFS's direction... The game is becoming way too arcady.
 
It's better than it was sure, but it still causes problems on long straights like the Nürburgring backstraight (don't know about Sarthe, might not be such a big deal as the straight isn't at the end of the lap).

Often in rooms we have a gentleman's agreement not to draft on the Nürb backstraight as in most cases it decides the winner.

The drafting in for example LFS is very different. With roadcars it doesn't really give you a significant boost unless you're really 1 metre from the other guy's bumper.
 
OK8
With roadcars it doesn't really give you a significant boost unless you're really 1 metre from the other guy's bumper.
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Not true. Once you reach 60+ mph in any car, the boost from drafting is obvious, even from 1-2 car lengths back. At 100+ mph, it is obvious from greater distances. If you aren't gaining on someone or can't pull off a pass by the end of a moderate straight, it's because your car doesn't have enough power. The PP system is pretty flawed so when this happens on a spec racing night it reveals a little more about what is going on under the covers.
 
I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree with the OP, but I will not divulge my opinion as it is rather pointless to argue this case. The evidence points in the right direction and other example contridict such as NASCAR.

But what I wanted to say was have you ever thought that just maybe the guy in third or second actually has a better run on/than the guy in first and perhaps maybe that driver is catching the draft at the most beneficial time and increases their run with overtaking in the slingshot. And just perhaps the guy in third is following that second driver on his tail thus once the driver in second catches the guy in first, the gentlemen in third has the obvious draft advantage. I'm just saying, just because your in first and you get overtaken doesn't nessecarily mean it was all the cheap draft effects fault, that maybe the other drivers might have just had a better lap going?

Because I have done this alot. Good example....me and my buddy dowhat13 can pretty much bump draft a whole course and we are very competitive and sometimes one of us will spin out but usually the one who gets left behind can get a really fast run on their own and will hook up back with each other at the optimul time like a long straight away.

BTW, we use low draft and no boost along with no aids or abs. And he's on a wheel and I'm on a DS3. Plus we are just tight like that.

Other examples that contradict what I'm saying, I race various pp in a few leagues and for the most part at lower speeds the draft is very less present but at higher speeds 120mph (which is when draft becomes noticeable) you can catch it on a straightaway and try to brake deep so when you come out of a turn you gain a few seconds or tenths (fill the gap). And technically draft/slipstream exists at 60mph but is hardly noticeable.

Maybe PD does need to tone the slipstream down a bit. But there you have it. I thought I would chime in on this. I have more information available on drafting here in my tuning thread. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5652018#post5652018

Note the part in my discussion on slipstream where the amount of downforce on the lead car effects draft too. So technically your observations may be inconsistant. You would need to do controlled testing with different setups with draft partners. Which I have done btw and will one day type out in that thread of mine.

chuyler1
Not true. Once you reach 60+ mph in any car, the boost from drafting is obvious, even from 1-2 car lengths back. At 100+ mph, it is obvious from greater distances. If you aren't gaining on someone or can't pull off a pass by the end of a moderate straight, it's because your car doesn't have enough power. The PP system is pretty flawed so when this happens on a spec racing night it reveals a little more about what is going on under the covers.
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Also sounds like you may be using too much aero which in return collects drag when you pull out of the draft to pass. In a pp restricted race with really long straights you need to go for more hp and way less aero.
 
The slipstream on ''Weak'' is still too strong. Watch any real Super GT race,then play GT. The difference is very big.
 
Also sounds like you may be using too much aero which in return collects drag when you pull out of the draft to pass. In a pp restricted race with really long straights you need to go for more hp and way less aero.
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I'm talking about spec street cars, the GT 86 to be specific, but ive experienced it with numerous spec cars directly from the recommended garage. No tuning and no aero. In most cases, the car in 3rd is the weaker driver and although he gets a bad run off a turn, he can always snatch the lead by the next turn and make everyone run his pace.

What I have seen on tracks like grand valley east is a constant cycle of 3 cars where the guy in 2nd cannot get to first for entry into turn 1 unless he diliberately takes the turn before the straight too slow. If 3 cars exit the turn together, the cars in 1st and 3rd will switch places every time with the guy in 2nd only seeing the lead for a moment midway down the straight.
 
That is definitely useful info, but I think I have a bigger issue with the 3rd car in the draft. As I stated, 2-car drafting is pretty realistic, its just that 3rd car that throws a curveball.
 
I think the general agreement that pd makes the drafting pronounced is to make the racing somewhat interesting...if only the ai takes the turns like schumacher and not like a granny.
 

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