Driving aid: ABS ; description of Settings makes me go, Wha?

[Lambob]

I am not in front of my PS3 now, so I can't recall what it said exactly, but something about when the setting is "stronger" it allows car to Turn easier.

What the hell does ABS have to do with handling of corners? Does PD mean to say we can trail brake safer into corner entry?

 

[magburner]

Yeah, I was reading that earlier myself, and I think they mean to say that you get more turning ability with higher ABS settings. Which, even though I am not a mechanically minded, is what ABS does 'in a nutshell' is it not? I may be wrong though...

BTW, I have started to notice that ABS set to '1' is giving noticeable understeer, similar almost to having ABS set off, though not as severe... Maybe that is how it is supposed to be. 💡 👍

 

[snowxdadx3]

Thoeretically, higher abs settings should make the car steer better. Why? because, when the tires are sliding, there is no grip, much like when driving on ice. Anti-lock brakes are designed to keep the tires from sliding on low traction surfaces, hence keeping grip levels up. theoretically speaking anyway... I do not always find this to be true, both in GT5 and real life....imo

 

[Lambob]

I appreciate your educated responses above, but I am still really wondering, what "Anti-lock-Brakes have to do with understeer when the break pedal is not touched, I am assuming.

 

[tribolik]

I appreciate your educated responses above, but I am still really wondering, what "Anti-lock-Brakes have to do with understeer when the break pedal is not touched, I am assuming.

You didnt mencioned that before and I cant say I have noticed it either

 

[redmutts]

ABS only applies to your ability to steer while braking. So higher ABS level setting means you can brake later and start to steer into the corner while still braking. No ABS you will overshoot the corner (if you braked too late).

 

[Lambob]

ABS only applies to your ability to steer while braking. So higher ABS level setting means you can brake later and start to steer into the corner while still braking. No ABS you will overshoot the corner (if you braked too late).

with a Higher ABS, wouldn't I overshoot the corner due to longer stopping distance , higher approaching velocity for designated turn, and from braking later, and for braking in a turn?

 

[freedomweasel]

Without ABS you should be able to brake later (shorter stopping distance), but you'll have much less control under braking. ABS just gives you more control over your car under braking. I can't recall the in-game description, but if it says you can turn better with ABS, then yes, under braking, you'll be able to turn better with ABS on, just as in real life.

 

[freight48]

Without ABS you should be able to brake later (shorter stopping distance), but you'll have much less control under braking. ABS just gives you more control over your car under braking. I can't recall the in-game description, but if it says you can turn better with ABS, then yes, under braking, you'll be able to turn better with ABS on, just as in real life.

ABS will only give you shorter braking if you're not skidding...

 

[snowxdadx3]

ABS will only give you shorter braking if you're not skidding...

Agreed.

 

[snowxdadx3]

ABS came along on cars due to poorly trained/skilled drivers on the road, thanks to government intervention. A well trained driver may be able to utilize this feature to shorten stopping distances on less than ideal grip surfaces. My wife for example , needs training-hehe . However, living in Northern michigan for a couple of decades now, I have definitely noticed that ABS systems do not always help me to stop and or steer better. Abs stands for ANTI lock, not ABSOLUTELY BETTER STOP!!. For example, a vehicle with next to bald tires and anti lock brakes will still push thru corners (and stop signs) when braking. In GT5, the SIMULATOR- same rules apply. For me, I am using a Six Axis controller. Very difficult stopping/steering for me unless ABS is on, especially as speed increases. I am sure I would race "better" with ABS off with a wheel/pedal setup. Basically, the key word for me in abs is SYSTEM. Driver ability, grip-(contact patch/pavement), suspension, steering, all play a part in braking/steering effectiveness. imo

 

[freedomweasel]

ABS will only give you shorter braking if you're not skidding...

Well yeah. I figured that was understood.

ABS will stop your car faster given that you can properly manage the brakes. That's what basically ABS does, manage the brakes for you.

 

[o9lifted]

Anti-Brake system - When set to on, you can imagine your tyres will brake like this (imagine _ is when the wheels are rolling while | are when the brakes works in) when holding the brakes in: _|_|_|_|_|_-->

With ABS set to off it would be more like this |||||||||||||--> where the wheels blocks but when you dont brake for full it will be like this ___________--> and slowing down gradually. If you get my point of view.


http://autobites.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/antilock-braking-system.gif

http://www.nissan.com.bn/vehicles/n_elgrand/images/sf01.jpg

http://hondaoto.com.vn/am_website/data_image/crv_safety_2_big.jpg
(the one at the buttom is without ABS)

After notes from the APEX book KAZ said that you will go faster when learning to controll your braking without ABS and you should start the braking by pushing hard then quickly or smoothly lift ur foot steadly til your wheels are not longer locking. Something like that.

EDIT: If I had pedals I would go for ABS set to 0. least give it a try and some practice

 

[redmutts]

with a Higher ABS, wouldn't I overshoot the corner due to longer stopping distance , higher approaching velocity for designated turn, and from braking later, and for braking in a turn?

You might have a point here - in that the game MAY differ from real life. In real life ABS means that you will brake more quickly i.e. stop in a shorter distance. This is because it stops the wheels from locking up - a locked up wheel is skidding, and a skidding wheel has less friction with the road surface than a wheel that is not skidding.

In the game however, they MAY have created a penalty for using it (I'm not sure) so that drivers who turn it off can get faster times (even though it makes the car more difficult to drive).

ABS should mean a shorter stopping distance because it is more difficult to lock the wheel. Because you can steer and brake at the same time, it means you should be able to use it to use the 'overtaking under braking' manoevre - you can start to brake later than a car without ABS and in that split second you should be able to overtake it and still maintain control for the approaching corner.

 

[freedomweasel]

You might have a point here - in that the game MAY differ from real life. In real life ABS means that you will brake more quickly i.e. stop in a shorter distance. This is because it stops the wheels from locking up - a locked up wheel is skidding, and a skidding wheel has less friction with the road surface than a wheel that is not skidding.

In the game however, they MAY have created a penalty for using it (I'm not sure) so that drivers who turn it off can get faster times (even though it makes the car more difficult to drive).

ABS should mean a shorter stopping distance because it is more difficult to lock the wheel. Because you can steer and brake at the same time, it means you should be able to use it to use the 'overtaking under braking' manoevre - you can start to brake later than a car without ABS and in that split second you should be able to overtake it and still maintain control for the approaching corner.

This isn't entirely correct. A car without ABS compared to the same car/tires with ABS will stop faster in real life given that the driver can properly control the brake pressure (not your average commuter). Additionally ABS systems *increase* stopping distance on gravel/snow/loose surfaces regardless of the driver.

 

[Counter_Z23]

I can be super agressive with ABS 1.

With ABS off, I always have to be more careful because the car seems less stable.

 

[usuhaia08]

I can be super agressive with ABS 1.

With ABS off, I always have to be more careful because the car seems less stable.

Agreed 100%

ABS=0 - Sweat
ABS=1 - Sweet

I use DFGT, so break pedal is crap, but once you get used to it, the feeling is that you can go faster on the mid-exit of corners once accelerating, but it is very easy to spin and screw it up.

If I have to give it all then ABS=1, but the driving experience is much better with ABS=0, I´d say is more real.

 

[redmutts]

This isn't entirely correct. A car without ABS compared to the same car/tires with ABS will stop faster in real life given that the driver can properly control the brake pressure (not your average commuter). Additionally ABS systems *increase* stopping distance on gravel/snow/loose surfaces regardless of the driver.

Yes I would agree that particularly in gravel/snow/loose surfaces ABS does not work well as the system is constantly relieving brake pressure. I would also agree about ABS in normal conditions with a racing driver who has a lot of skill. ABS is primarily a safety feature to give the average driver some degree of protection is an emergency where the instinctive reaction is just to slam the brakes on as hard as possible.

In GT I guess it depends on your technique and skill in braking - how much control you have in braking - and maybe the difference between having a wheel/pedals and a standard controller. ABS is useful if you tend to slam the brakes on harder than you wish you had

 

[freedomweasel]

Yes I would agree that particularly in gravel/snow/loose surfaces ABS does not work well as the system is constantly relieving brake pressure. I would also agree about ABS in normal conditions with a racing driver who has a lot of skill. ABS is primarily a safety feature to give the average driver some degree of protection is an emergency where the instinctive reaction is just to slam the brakes on as hard as possible.

In GT I guess it depends on your technique and skill in braking - how much control you have in braking - and maybe the difference between having a wheel/pedals and a standard controller. ABS is useful if you tend to slam the brakes on harder than you wish you had

Using the DS3 it's quite hard to have it set to 0 so I keep it at 1. A wheel/pedal setup would probably help.

 

[chaosdd]

ABS prevents the wheels from locking under braking, thus allowing to steer the car.

Basically, the available grip is distributed between braking and cornering. The higher the ABS setting, them less aggressive the system is and the less braking is available, but more turning potential. That's what the description meant probably.

Modern ABS systems are very good and opperate almost at the very threshold of wheel locking. It's almost impossible to stop (substantially) better without ABS nowadays, even if you are very skilled driver, especially on slippery surface. Also very important is the brake pedal feel. Some cars have wonderful feel (racing cars, the better handling sport/road cars), some have no feeling, so you have to rely on the ABS in extreme stopping.

In GT generally, the brake pedals do not provide any feel and stopping power is determined by the pedal travel only, not by both travel but mostly pressure. So braking with ABS off is reserved only for ultra, uber dedicated players.
Actually, ABS in the game works really well and setting 1 is quite enough in most cases.

This is my opinion on the subject.

 

[Lambob]

Agreed 100%

ABS=0 - Sweat
ABS=1 - Sweet

I use DFGT, so break pedal is crap, but once you get used to it, the feeling is that you can go faster on the mid-exit of corners once accelerating, but it is very easy to spin and screw it up.

If I have to give it all then ABS=1, but the driving experience is much better with ABS=0, I´d say is more real.

No pun intended, but it is posts like this that led me to my question in the first place. What on earth does mid corner accelleration on exit have ANYTHING to do with a Braking System??

Alas I found out what made my car feel%10 faster yesterday, and that is to disable the "Active Stability management"

perhaps you meant disabling ASM, instead of ABS?

but you are truly correct, ABS @0 is sweaty, but gives you a truly realistic pedal experience for once, with brake balance/pressure settings on the G25, I vow to learn to drive with no ABS. besides, I like to use engine compression in conjunction with no more than 25% pedal pressure for all my stopping.

 

[RODDUZ]

Lambob you are talking garbage! Go back to bed!

 

[RODDUZ]

"Contrary to popular belief ABS brakes will not stop your car faster. The idea behind ABS brakes is that you maintain control of your vehicle by avoiding wheel lock up. When your wheels lock up you have no steering control and turning the steering wheel to avoid a collision will do you no good. When the wheels stop turning, it's done and over."

http://autorepair.about.com/od/glossary/a/def_ABS_3.htm

 

[freedomweasel]

No pun intended, but it is posts like this that led me to my question in the first place. What on earth does mid corner accelleration on exit have ANYTHING to do with a Braking System??

Alas I found out what made my car feel%10 faster yesterday, and that is to disable the "Active Stability management"

perhaps you meant disabling ASM, instead of ABS?

but you are truly correct, ABS @0 is sweaty, but gives you a truly realistic pedal experience for once, with brake balance/pressure settings on the G25, I vow to learn to drive with no ABS. besides, I like to use engine compression in conjunction with no more than 25% pedal pressure for all my stopping.

There is no pun in your statement...

If anything, depending on the car you're driving in game, and what you drive in real life, ABS set to 0 is less realistic. Modern road cars have ABS.

 

[LaLinea555]

AntilockBrakesystem

It is a fine system if you are a driver that hammers the brake pedal in emergency situation, hammer the pedal and the system helps you to stop as soon as possible AND you have the ability to turn while braking. But if youre speed is to great for the turn it will slide out a bit so release the brake presure a bit helps you to do a harder turn. If you dont have anti skid system the car can easy spin out if you're not carefull.

Every driver should have driven four months on snow, it is on snow you really learn how to drive and how to do the right thing in an emergancy situation.

In GT5 i have the ABS on 1 and the best break effect is on 1/3 break pressure. But if the ABS are on full and you hammer the break the ABS is doing all the work for you.

 

[redmutts]

No pun intended, but it is posts like this that led me to my question in the first place. What on earth does mid corner accelleration on exit have ANYTHING to do with a Braking System??

Nothing!. As has been said before ABS only applies to your ability to steer WHILE BRAKING. If you are not braking, but coasting or accelerating round a corner, then ABS has absolutely no effect on your steering. Therefore ABS should only apply to your approach to a corner - mid corner or exit ABS is history.

Nor does it apply to trail braking, which is normally very light braking just to take a little speed off while you are in the corner. ABS only applies if you are braking hard enough to lock the wheels.

 

[usuhaia08]

Appreciate comments, but ask PD why ABS=0 set ASM to Off. Jeff Gordon challenge, DFGT RA functionality allows me to set ASM to Off and ABS to 1, challenge impossible, then I change ABS to 0 and bang! Challenge achieved. The speed in the corners once accelerating is faster as the car is not slowed down, somehow and out of my knowledge ABS is related to ASM, is this right?

 

[Goshin2568]

No pun intended, but it is posts like this that led me to my question in the first place. What on earth does mid corner accelleration on exit have ANYTHING to do with a Braking System??

Because... When you don't have abs on, your tires lock up. When they lock up, they are no longer spinning, the ground is just moving under them. When this happens, not only do you not stop, but you cannot turn. Basically, braking, turning, and accelerating are all interconnected due to the tires traction limits, so changing any one of those affects the other two.

Alas I found out what made my car feel%10 faster yesterday, and that is to disable the "Active Stability management"

perhaps you meant disabling ASM, instead of ABS?

Also, small pointer, your car will feel faster and drive better and you will become a better driver with all assists off, bar ABS.