Driving Aids?...Are they realistic in driving?

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My question about the Driving Aids in the Settings screen before you race, ACS and the other 2, Are these real world aids in a car or are they just like handicaps in the game that help new drivers better control their cars?

The reason I ask this is because, I'm the type of person who likes to realistically drive or play games with no handicapping but if the driving aids are real world settings, then I dont mind using them so much

Also, is there any down side or trade off in car performance to using them set high and gaining the extra traction or control?...such as loss of speed or acceleration, ect? If not, then why would anyone NOT want to use them?

thanks for helping me clear this one up

Also as a 2nd question....is there DRAFTING in this game too....is it realistically implemented?


Do you guys find the engine sounds more or less realistic then previous versions of this game?


thanks
 
I never use it unless it is a lux-car that actually has traction, like my M5 has everything off but TCS set to 1 to act like the real car, same as my E55 and SL55 and 65 AMG's. the ASM things slows the car, Traction does too if it is string enough. it basically chokes the car's performance. I first tried it in a R32 '89 with stock settings with tracton and stuff and I was like: "Why am I slowing down" until I hit 20mph, then I turned it all off and made the same turn at 50MPH (It was on Nur) I also told my friend who always ran traction on GT3 to turn them off on GT4...he didn't listen until he lost his 7th race in a row due to the braking of the ASM.

And yes there is Drafting, when U get behind a car, you hear only your car, cut away and then you'll hear a rush of wind. I do it on Nur in the Track Meet. also don't be in a draft before a turn becuase you won't be able to stop as well
 
I'm not a expert by any means on this but i hate the driving aids for the most part.
While in a hard turn if the car happens to slide the aids take over. They balance the car and let of the gas so you don't slide which slows you down ALOT. I like to slide a bit. The aids slow me way down in the turns if i turn them off i can get a little sideways and recover with less time loss than with the aids doing it for me. The only time i use the traction control is on high HP cars 500+ usually and set it to 1. I try to drive like i would in real life. I don't stomp on the gas, i ease into it with a high hp car. With it set at 1 this gives me a little play but some vehicles now adays actually have TCS built in that do adjust human input to stablize the car.
 
I suppose if you'd drive super smooth as you should, the asm aids shouldn't be activated at all. However they seem to be active very quickly even with a low setting. If you get even the tiniest bit of oversteer or understeer instead of you wanting it to correct by steering, the asm just slows you down a lot. I don't like it and only use TCM for the cars I think it suits. Mostly luxury cruisers as M5 and SL55. 1000Nm is hard to control :D I usually use an auto transmission for these cars too. Too bad that manual or auto is a selectable option. It should be a fixed factor. Oh well PD can't please everyone
 
I'll take a shot at answering this.

As to your first question, there are driving aids on some cars in the real world. Here's an excerpt from a Volvo e-brochure:

Stability and Traction Control (STC) automatically ensures that the driven wheels get just the right amount of power so that they retain a firm grip on the road. If, for example, you are driving in slippery conditions and one or both driven wheels start to spin, the torque is immediately reduced so that they regain their grip. STC makes it easier for you to start off from a standstill on a slippery surface. It also increases side stability in curves and reduces understeer when pulling out of them.​

Now, these are other driving aids obviously vary from there in-game counterparts, but there general intention is the same: Making the car less likely to lose traction. This type of safety does hinder you when you are going for the best times possible in the game.

ASM and TCS sense wheelsping and try to correct it by reducing the throttle or tempering steering input. While this will definitely help prevent spinning, it also takes control away from the driver. In order to get the most out of each car, it is necessary to push a car beyond what these "training wheels" will allow.

In actual game experience, I have found that some cars are simply horrible to drive unless you turn these controls down or off. With the Ginetta G4, for instance, I can consistently drop 5-7 seconds off of lap times without ASM. I never use ASM on any car and from what I have seen on these forums, most people agree with me on that.

TCS on the other hand is (in my opinion) a good tool on some of the higher powered cars. Especially something like the Cerbera Speed 12. With its high power and low weight it can become very erratic unless good throttle control is exercised. TCS make it drivable without having to do major tuning in the gearbox.

I hope I have answered some of your questions.
 
I don't mind it, since sometimes when i'm using my DS2, it's hard to fluxuate the pressure of the throttle.
 
thanks for the help guys, I guess this answers my question. I was really just wondering if all these actual Gran Turismo cars have those 3 drivings aids in their real life counterparts or is this more like a cheat in the game?

I really dont mind using them in the game if I psychologically know these are actual driving aids in the specific real life cars
 
depends on cars, 500bhp or more lol.

tcs at most set 2 one, over steer is 0 and understeer is set to 1-4 (for certine cars)

has any one tried 20-20-10

i wonder if the car drives it self lol (not bspec ) :dunce:
 
mustang_4_ever
depends on cars, 500bhp or more lol.

tcs at most set 2 one, over steer is 0 and understeer is set to 1-4 (for certine cars)

has any one tried 20-20-10

i wonder if the car drives it self lol (not bspec ) :dunce:
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Mustang,

Why do you rate GT 3 a 97% but give GT4 a 40%....isn't GT 4 the better more realistic game?


Is there any reason to go out and buy GT3 at a discounted used price of $19 if I already own GT 4?
 
lisa.. his numbers there are how far he is though th egame

edit.. dangg you v.. i wanted to fell important.. lol
 
Lisa_Bonami
Mustang,

Why do you rate GT 3 a 97% but give GT4 a 40%....isn't GT 4 the better more realistic game?


Is there any reason to go out and buy GT3 at a discounted used price of $19 if I already own GT 4?
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I'm guessing that's how much of the game he's completed
 
ok sorry folks for the confusion,

however could some of you comment on this question;

Is there any reason to go out and buy GT3 at a discounted used price of $19 if I already own GT 4?

Is GT4 superior to GT3 in every way or would there still be reasons to pick up GT3 as well?
 
I feel that GT4 is much, much better than GT3, i'd stick with GT4.
 
I have a real life M5 (2000 with about 400HP). It has a button called DSC which stands for Dynamic Stability Control.

DSC on the M5 does 2 things:
1) Backs off throttle if you are going to spin the drive wheels. (i.e. TCS)
2) Backs off throttle and applies individual breaks to avoid over/under steer. (i.e. ASM)

So for the nitpicky realists, an M5 cannot have TCS on and ASM off or vice versa. They go together.

And yes, the M5's DSC severely limits your ability to accelerate through a turn. As soon as a wheel starts to squeel, it backs off the throttle and sometimes applies brakes. When I am doing "spirited driving" I turn DSC off. For example, turning left into 40 MPH traffic from my house, if DSC is on I need about a 10 car-length gap. With DSC off, I can slip into traffic with only a 3 car length gap.

Another thing about real-life M5 DSC is once it activates, it stays on for almost a full second. I don't know if GT4 models that - its really hard to tell in the game. But in real life, I can finish the turn and still be throttled back by the DSC. Once it decides to let go, the engine comes back to full roar and its like a rocket taking off.

One thing to note, the stock Michelin Pilot Sport tires on real-life M5 are WAY more grippy than GT4 soft sport tires. You have to try REAL hard to break them loose. You are far more likely to smoke your clutch, like I did :) Real life TCS on M5 is crucial, however, in rain or snow. If there is an inch of snow on the ground, I cannot get the car above 1 MPH without DSC.

Here's a "fun" story. I was doing "spirited driving" on a back road at about 80 MPH. I went over a rising turn that, unbeknownst to me, was a drop off on the other side. All four wheels left the ground and my car spun off-center before landing again. I was thinking I was going to die. But this time, I forgot to turn off the DSC. Good thing. The DSC kicked in and like a giant hand coming down from the sky, turned the car back in line with the road.

Amazing car.
 
Tcs is real, they use it in race cars all the time, i think last year they banned tcs at sebring and there was a rumor that the audi's were still running it, but they weren't. as for asm, im not sure if its real, but it does slow u down alot.
 
Yeah I usually turn off all aids except when I am driving a very powerful car and for that I'll put TCS on at least 1 or 2. My latest culprit for needing TCS was the Buick Special which sure has some torque mainly by seeing the TCS light flash continually throughout a race lol
 
a friend of mine in highschool used to drive his dad's holden commodore. very similar to the SS commodore in gt4. it had traction control. keep in mind this is a big heavy v8 powered car, and we were all just learning to drive. it was amazing the speed you could take roundabouts at with the TCS on, you'd hurl in at about 80km/h and just turn the wheel, the car would do the rest and pop out of the roundabout, even on a 270 degree turn (right turn, we drive on the left side here)

in this case tcs was a help. i think that in gt4, unless you've got so much power you can't accelerate properly (speed 12 with supercharger) then tcs isn't going to do you any good

the way i drive in gt, i expect the car to move a certain way, and i know how to anticipate it and compensate for it. so i turn ASM off

alot of cars have understeer at speed, so the easiest way through corners is to use a little bit of liftoff oversteer. not drifting, just enough to exceed the grip limit of the tyres so you can corner a little better. asm wouldn't let you do this

likewise, try driving a powerful MR kei car, you basically NEED understeer, as the things see-saw so much in their grip levels with braking/accelerating. brake into the corner, turn sharply, nail the throttle to get on the power and understeer out of the rest of the corner, still with good exit speed. asm wouldn't let you do this

i also like the challenge of driving something which CAN spin out, then i need to practice and improve my skill to be able to drive it properly under all sorts of cornering conditions and different tracks. have you been cracking along nurburgring sweeping corners at over 300km/h using lightning reflexes to keep the car on the track, hearing the wind and the rumble strips buzzing under you and the tyres chirping away as you work them their hardest to stay on the track? it's intense stuff

ASM (and a high TCS) Amakes all cars slower than their real potential and boring to drive, but that's just the way i play the game
 
Not to belabor this point, but I wanted to discuss a couple of things real quick

I tried to remove all the driving aids TCM set to 0 and the Oversteer and Understeer down to 0 as well and I tested it out on a modified Mitsubish 3000 GT with 416HP

I added a stage 2 turbo, a computer chip and intercooler

left everything else stock ( no more cash )

I noticed immediately the drastic effects removing these aids had in the handling of the car....I use a Logitech Pro Driving Wheel and I had a hell of a time keeping this car in control on turns. Now I can appreciate the fact that this is realistic but I guess my question is do all you pro drivers feel that the levels of tweaking that you can do in the driving aids section of the SETTINGS screens gives you too much of an unrealistic edge? If the game is designed to simulate real life driving AND real life garage and pre race tuning, would mechanics have this much tweakability in the Driving Aids section prior to a race?

And another question is, I see alot of die hard realists brag about how they do not use any of the driving aids because it dumbs down the realism of driving....but what would be the difference between tweaking your car and getting the same type of traction benefits from the Driving Aids menu as you would get from actually upgrading your car with better Traction Control Parts from the Mod stores in the game?.....wouldnt this be giving the driver the same end results of better traction and control?

How do you feel about this?

To me it almost seems like the driving aids give the player a free or easy way to cheat the driving model physics and also avoid spending huge cash to buy traction upgrades to your car....can someone bring all this into perspective?

Driving Aids versus Traction Control and Stability upgrades
 
There's a lot of ASM/TCS haters but i can understand why because it detracts from the realism of driving. If you are new to the game then keep ASM on and TCS around 7 and slowly ween yourself from them. I was in the same boat and didnt feel the need to turn off the assists but after i did i found myself in more control of the car and increased lap times.

It does take a lot of practice but once you get used to driving w/o assists im sure you'll enjoy the game more.
 
Lisa_Bonami
Driving Aids versus Traction Control and Stability upgrades
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If you're talking about suspension upgrades/tweaks and softer tires, there's a huge difference. The "driving aids" (ASM and TCS) don't change the characteristics of the car's available traction and weight transfer as suspension and tire modifications will. All the driving aids do is actively prevent you from driving beyond the limits of the car by adjusting the amount of power being delivered to one or more wheels when they detect an abnormality (for instance, TCS will modulate the throttle or apply some brake when the drive wheels lose traction). In most cases, turning on the driving aids (especially ASM) will result in much slower lap times than running an identically configured car with ASM set to 0 and TCS set to 0 (for slower cars) or maybe 1 or 2 for powerful (400+HP) cars. In order to turn a fast lap, you have to be able to drive the car right at and a little beyond the traction limits. ASM and TCS won't let you get close enough to these limits to make decent time.

Suspension and tire upgrades, on the other hand, will alter the available traction for your car, and when you increase the available traction (by putting on softer tires or tweaking the suspension settings to balance the weight transfer properly between all four wheels), that will always make your car faster.

So just remember:

Driving Aids - Make your car slower but easier to keep under control.
Handling Upgrades - Improve traction and handling characteristics without slowing you down, resulting in faster speeds and lower lap times.

Personally, I never use ASM, and only use TCS on 1 or 2 on lighter/more powerful cars. The only exception is that I've used ASM on a few rally races, because I absolutely suck at rally. I'm sure they slowed me down quite a bit, but far less than constantly bouncing off the walls and thus spending half the race running <30MPH (damn that penalty! :ouch: )

As for real life, my 120HP FWD '93 Saturn SL2 had a traction control feature. Don't ask me why... :dopey:
 
Yes these both exist in real life. Yes they exist on the race track and in street cars in real life. The C5 and C6 Corvettes for example, use something called "Active Handling." Active handling is a mix of traction control and stability management. These are computer "interrupts" when the many thousands of sensors detect that the car is getting out of shape. These are safety factors built in to street driven cars to help people not get in over their heads as far as "spirited driving" goes.

Professional race car drivers use a variant of TCS and ASM. In the American Le Mans Series for example, it makes more sense for drivers to use traction controls than not to. After braking early for a corner of course... if a driver can simply mash the gas pedal as he goes through a corner and can let the computer sort out the amount of power needed to get to each wheel, why not? Repeat after me, "Computer traction control units are not bad things." If you drive properly, the different kinds of traction control can only help, not hurt you.
 
63AvantiR3
Professional race car drivers use a variant of TCS and ASM. In the American Le Mans Series for example, it makes more sense for drivers to use traction controls than not to. After braking early for a corner of course... if a driver can simply mash the gas pedal as he goes through a corner and can let the computer sort out the amount of power needed to get to each wheel, why not? Repeat after me, "Computer traction control units are not bad things." If you drive properly, the different kinds of traction control can only help, not hurt you.
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The problem of using driving aids is that this aids bring not so good pilots close to very good pilots that can control the car without the aids, of course the very good pilots are still better then the other pilots because they have less to worry about with the aids.

It's as simple as this: when you use aids to help you, you lose a degree of freedom.
 
havent fiddled with this yet but atm i have it all truned off. in gt3 i had them off too except on high powered FF cars tcs was on 1. I will have to do some testing :)
 
TCS may be slightly realistic but ASM is purely to make it easier for newbs.
 
G25RJ
The problem of using driving aids is that this aids bring not so good pilots close to very good pilots that can control the car without the aids, of course the very good pilots are still better then the other pilots because they have less to worry about with the aids.

It's as simple as this: when you use aids to help you, you lose a degree of freedom.
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I love when people call them pilots and drivers, seriously its awesome. I dont think ASM is actually possible in real life though, unless its something to do with torque splitting which would require some insane type of differentials.
 
Super Jamie
a friend of mine in highschool used to drive his dad's holden commodore. very similar to the SS commodore in gt4. it had traction control. keep in mind this is a big heavy v8 powered car, and we were all just learning to drive. it was amazing the speed you could take roundabouts at with the TCS on, you'd hurl in at about 80km/h and just turn the wheel, the car would do the rest and pop out of the roundabout, even on a 270 degree turn (right turn, we drive on the left side here)

in this case tcs was a help. i think that in gt4, unless you've got so much power you can't accelerate properly (speed 12 with supercharger) then tcs isn't going to do you any good

the way i drive in gt, i expect the car to move a certain way, and i know how to anticipate it and compensate for it. so i turn ASM off

alot of cars have understeer at speed, so the easiest way through corners is to use a little bit of liftoff oversteer. not drifting, just enough to exceed the grip limit of the tyres so you can corner a little better. asm wouldn't let you do this

likewise, try driving a powerful MR kei car, you basically NEED understeer, as the things see-saw so much in their grip levels with braking/accelerating. brake into the corner, turn sharply, nail the throttle to get on the power and understeer out of the rest of the corner, still with good exit speed. asm wouldn't let you do this

i also like the challenge of driving something which CAN spin out, then i need to practice and improve my skill to be able to drive it properly under all sorts of cornering conditions and different tracks. have you been cracking along nurburgring sweeping corners at over 300km/h using lightning reflexes to keep the car on the track, hearing the wind and the rumble strips buzzing under you and the tyres chirping away as you work them their hardest to stay on the track? it's intense stuff

ASM (and a high TCS) Amakes all cars slower than their real potential and boring to drive, but that's just the way i play the game
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Something that CAN spin out? Try ringing in an F1 with no aids on, thats ****ing hard. Seriously, you catch the grass with any of your wheel while on the accelerator and you're gone.
 
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