Driving ethics: kerbs, legal or no?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blank_Redge
  • 67 comments
  • 7,726 views

Are kerbs fair game?

  • Yes

    Votes: 165 95.4%

  • No

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • Total voters
    173
WRS OLR rules are fine as a guideline.
Personally I go for following "rule":
Two wheels only on Kerb and not more than 50% of the Car over the Tracklimiting Whiteline before the Kerb.

That is normal standard in every Racing Series let it be Real or Fictional ones.

With this everything is cool for me.
The R8 pic above is a "dirty" drive in my opinion.
 
I stick with the 2-wheels on/off generalization as well, but no more than 'half' the car should pass beyond that imaginary 'line' between track & off-track.
 
Something hugely debated.

I say yes, but it depends....

Being a touring car based driver, I've always had the views that the track limit is defined as the white line. If 2 wheels are over it on the kerb this is ok. 4 wheels on the kerb I find is debateable

Some cars you need to stay of the kerbs, as it won't handle very well

But I think the main issue is everybody following the same track rules. Have whatever view you want, but drive according to the specific series' rules on them
 
YZF
Kerbs are part of race track, that's why they are there. If they wouldn't be, they wouldn't exist in that specific place
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By that logic anything could be part of the track. Because it's there.
 
nickg07
How is this clean?

CircuitdelaSarthe2009NoChicanes_36.jpg
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This is cheating, no one should be on that side of the white line because it changes the whole corner approach because you slow down a little less and I don't even want to know if that person knock the cones out on exit.
 
YZF
Kerbs are part of race track, that's why they are there. If they wouldn't be, they wouldn't exist in that specific place
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Not true at all. Kerbs are there to give you something to get purchase on before you head off into whatever is next (Barrier,Gravel or run off.)
 
YZF
Kerbs are part of race track, that's why they are there. If they wouldn't be, they wouldn't exist in that specific place
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"In auto racing, kerbs are flat kerbstones lining the corners or chicanes of racing tracks. They are often painted red and white, and are intended to prevent unauthorized short-cuts and keep the race safely on the track. Although they are not considered part of the racing track, drivers sometimes "ride the kerbs" in order to maintain momentum and gain a time advantage in cornering."
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I thought they were part of the track but now I know they're not... EVERYONE! STAY OFF THE KERBS YOU CHEATS! :lol:

Well, anyone who voted "YES" (including me) are technically wrong! But, since it became a common thing to ride the kerbs, should this still be unauthorized?
 
Tired Tyres
Not true at all. Kerbs are there to give you something to get purchase on before you head off into whatever is next (Barrier,Gravel or run off.)
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Yep. And kerbs are also there to prevent dirt from getting on the track. If there were no kerbs then dirt would be kicked up on the track every time a car goes off with a wheel or two and the traction in that part of the track would suffer and it could become a safety risk.

PowerSlide77
I thought they were part of the track but now I know they're not... EVERYONE! STAY OFF THE KERBS YOU CHEATS! :lol:

Well, anyone who voted "YES" (including me) are technically wrong! But, since it became a common thing to ride the kerbs, should this still be unauthorized?
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There is no rule against riding the kerbs though. The rule is that you need to stay within the white lines, usually with at least one wheel. On most tracks you can ride the kerbs without going off the track :)

I've seen one exception to this general rule, however. It's a motorsports organization in Great Britain who changed their definition of track edges. Their rule is that the white line is the edge of the track, except for when there are kerbs, in which case the kerbs define the track edge. All wheels need to stay inside the track edges, unless there is a justified reason for going off track.

So that means that if you would put one wheel outside of the white line and there's no kerbs, you'd be judged as being off the track by their standards. The same with having one wheel outside of the kerbs.

There are no rules that I have found which says how big part of the car's body that needs to be inside the track edge, and that is probably because that would be really hard to judge. Having a rule that says that at least one wheel or all four wheels need to stay inside makes it much easier to judge, because you can clearly see if the wheels are on the correct side of the line.
 
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2 wheels off track = legal
3 or more wheels off track = illegal.

Pretty sure that's how GT judges it when I'm doing hot laps.
 
I take it as in football. The white lines at each side of the track make up the boundaries of the track. As long as two tires of the car remain inside the track at all times, I have no problem with it.

nickg07
How is this clean?

CircuitdelaSarthe2009NoChicanes_36.jpg
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It isn't to me. By my definition, that car is clearly outside the track.
 
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Tired Tyres
Not true at all. Kerbs are there to give you something to get purchase on before you head off into whatever is next (Barrier,Gravel or run off.)
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You mean kerbs are for safety reasons to slow you down before you hit the wall ?? If you think so, then you are completely wrong. Or you mean something else
 
YZF
You mean kerbs are for safety reasons to slow you down before you hit the wall ?? If you think so, then you are completely wrong. Or you mean something else
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The kerbs are there so if a drivers gets it a little bit wrong, he/she has something to get some grip on so it doesn't have to result in an off.

Google FIA driving standards.

To save you the time in reading FIA PDF documents try this 7th entry down.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88686

The relevant section is this.

FIA quote.

Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not
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Not a very well thought out question as it entirely depends on the rules of the series.

The most logical track limits are the WRS rules, of kerbs are track, and you must have 2 wheels on track at all times. The reason it makes the most sense is that for the vast majority of corners, 2 wheels on kerb and 2 beyond the kerb is the absolute limit of how wide you can go/how much you can cut before losing time. It makes stewarding a lot easier because there's less corners you can take illegally, and for most of the other corners you can still run wide on/cut, you would have to do it quite obviously to actually gain any time on them. Also means that drivers can push the physical limits of the track more than artificial limits.
 
I'm truly sorry if my link has caused some confusion here. I was just trying to save some time by simply linking the OP to show some examples of what it is that I am talking about as it relates to kerbing here in this discussion. I should have just posted only the particular pictures that pertain to the discussion here. Although I know the answer to the question regarding the white line in that particular instance, those pictures regarding just the white line as a boundary should just be ignored as they are not part of this discussion. Any questions regarding the white line in that instance and why it is legal there, should be directed towards the WRS admins. Again, my apologies for any confusion here I may have created, that was certainly not my intent. Next time I'll just post the individual pictures. 👍 :)
 
Tired Tyres
The kerbs are there so if a drivers gets it a little bit wrong, he/she has something to get some grip on so it doesn't have to result in an off.

Google FIA driving standards.

To save you the time in reading FIA PDF documents try this 7th entry down.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88686

The relevant section is this.

FIA quote.
Click to expand...

Crossing track limits (white line) and going on to the kerb - will not raise you a warning or penalty in any motosport. So it's a part of a racing track within "allowed limits" concept
 
LightningLord
I do the same. Seems like it's fair. Maybe if the R8 was a little more on the track, it'd be better.
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PowerSlide77
Agreed the R8 is so close to the limit, technically, I wouldn't consider it cutting the corner but it sure is really REALLY close to it, I think the green part behind the kerb makes it all "ok" here, if it was grass I would consider that the R8 is cutting the corner.

That being said, I don't aim for the higher part of the kerb (which is close to the green area/gass) because to me that's basically cutting the corner if your inside wheels are over the kerb (like the R8 is doing). I think if I was following the R8, I would say that the corner was cut. If all four wheels are on the kerb (therefore over the white line) I consider that the corner has been cut.

Concerning the exits, I consider that only two wheels should be over the white line, if half of the car is consistently over the white lines then I consider that they're exceeding track limits/cheating.
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For me that is one of those where it is close to the limit. The green tarmac is fair game for 2 wheels, but no more than 2 wheels. If the left wheels had been entirely on the rumble strip then I would consider that as cutting as there is no car inside the white lines of the circuit. I only used that picture as it is the very outer limit of what is acceptable in many rules around the globe in real or otherwise.

The way I run the exceeding track limits rules in my racing group is that you are allowed 2 wheels to leave the 'white lines' but anymore and it's a strike. You get 3 strikes at doing it and then after that you get a 10 second penalty added onto the end time. In close pack racing 10 seconds is a lot. I think that is a fair way of doing it because everyone exceeds or cuts one corner a little too much in a race. That's where 3 chances seems fair to me. Once or twice is an accident, more than 3 times is just cheating.
 
PowerSlide77
Well, don't listen to them because it's DIRTY AS HELL, you don't see any drivers driving like that around Le Mans... the thread you've mentioned is pure corner cutting tutorial. This is in no way possible clean.
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Wrong. They had to implement special kerbs at Le mans to prevent the extreme corner cutting that was (and still does) take place. See Dunlop chicane, Ford Chicane, and Tetre Rouge. Drivers (especially GT) will use kerbs, sometimes all 4 tires, EVERY LAP.
 
PowerSlide77
Well, don't listen to them because it's DIRTY AS HELL, you don't see any drivers driving like that around Le Mans... the thread you've mentioned is pure corner cutting tutorial. This is in no way possible clean.
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Although you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it, the problem I have is you disrespecting the WRS. They do not teach, nor do they condone, corner cutting, period. :mad:
 
Yeah it's really all about rules, most online rules state at least two wheels on track at all times, some say kerb is track some say not.

Most real life rules state no wheel must leave the track at all times, and kerb is track.

Screenshot_2014-12-04-23-14-11.png
 
GTP_CargoRatt
Although you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it, the problem I have is you disrespecting the WRS. They do not teach, nor do they condone, corner cutting, period. :mad:
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My thoughts exactly. Unless I'm misrembering, which is entirely possible seeing as I can't remember where I read it, the specific boundary rules are picked for ease of verification, and to prevent people binning too many laps, because not all of the members have unlimited free time. I do, un/fortunately.
 
Carbonox
I'd like to know what makes you a superior authority to WRS when it comes to corner cutting rules.
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What makes them a superior authority to me? or you? or anyone else? when it comes to corner cutting? to me this is corner cutting, to them it might not be (but it clearly is, see why kerbs exists in a previous post).

Just watch a full lap of LeMans and you'll see that they are not cutting the corners those guys cut, the only corners I saw driver cut at LeMans was the last two chicanes.


Spurgy 777
Well anything that is different to real life must clearly be wrong, even if the series rules say it's legal, durr. :sly:

[/sarcasm]
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If cutting corners is allowed among them it's fine I don't have a problem with it even if it isn't allowed, but what they claim is clean just isn't in real life and last time I checked corner cutting wasn't allowed in WEC.

KinLM
Wrong. They had to implement special kerbs at Le mans to prevent the extreme corner cutting that was (and still does) take place. See Dunlop chicane, Ford Chicane, and Tetre Rouge. Drivers (especially GT) will use kerbs, sometimes all 4 tires, EVERY LAP.
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I know that they implemented special kerbs this year... because it is not legal to cut corners like they used to.

GTP_CargoRatt
Although you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it, the problem I have is you disrespecting the WRS. They do not teach, nor do they condone, corner cutting, period. :mad:
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I don't disrespect them, I'm just saying the pictures they've posted and said was clean are just corner cutting in real life, I don't care about their rules since I don't race with them to me this is pure corner cutting, I don't see what is everyone's problem here... you can all be mad at my comment or whatever, but I'm not going to take back my view on this someone asked me about the picture I gave my opinion, you might like it or not (obviously not) but you'll just have to deal with it.
 
PowerSlide77
... you can all be mad at my comment or whatever, but I'm not going to take back my view on this someone asked me about the picture I gave my opinion, you might like it or not (obviously not) but you'll just have to deal with it.
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I don't think anyone's mad. Your post above helps us see where you are coming from. 👍 You said it a few times - "in real life", and I completely agree with those statements for real life racing.

This thread is in the GT6 section though, not the Motorsports forum, so the main discussion is focusing around the game. As @Spurgy 777 and others explained above, we have well thought-out reasons for all the boundary rules we enforce. Mostly so it's more "fun" than "work".
 
I suppose the judge for GT6 would be,
get in a car
go to free run and pick the track
and see how far you can leave the track before you are flagged (Black) for being a bad girl/boy.

If GT6 says it is clean and you get a replay... it is GT6 approved.
If you get a black flag ... then you should probably take up touring car racing or maybe the WRC (Rally)
 

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