Driving Physics Are Different When in 3rd Person View (Chase Cam)

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SS_1182

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Maybe it's just my experience, but I find that when playing in one of the first person camera modes (ground cam(front)/hood cam) the physics of the car during cornering are much broader in detail. On the other hand, I really like using chase cam because you get to enjoy the whole view of the car you've worked so hard to get, but I've accepted the fact that I can pull much better lap times in hood cam or ground cam (front).

I've found that there's much more detail when it comes to steering physics and handling, and I can actually control slight drifts the majority of the time, even in cars prone to lose the back end with over acceleration like the Audi R10 and FGT. It just seems like the turning radius is much broader and more finely developed in the first person cameras. Some of the turns I've pulled off in these would never be possible in chase cam, and in the 3rd person view I find the cars much more prone to losing altogether it in those situations.

I've also noticed that an advantage of 1st person camera modes is that you can really take a much better line into the corners, simply because of the different line of sight. And I think that one issue you have to deal with in chase cam is that the feeling of speed/pace is toned down compared to 1st person views. 100mph feels like 100mph in 1st person, not so much in bumper cam. This might lead to entering corners a little to fast from that view.

Anyway, just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience with the chase cam vs. the 1st person modes.
 
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Yea, when you see the whole car the whole experience worsens in my opinion.

I used to use cockpit, but once the cars start getting faster it shakes like a mofo, so hood cam for me.

It makes it a lot more fun and exhilarating.
 
I take it that you are referring to the chase cam when you talk about bumper cam?

Note Bumper cam is located at the front bumper/ Roof cam is above the center on the roof and chase cam is behind the car.

The cars will seem to drive a lot different in chase view because you are several feet away from the front wheel of the car where as in any other view you are very close to the front wheels. I find it almost impossible to drive chase view now and not just on GT but on any racer. Hood/Roof or bumper is the way to go. Better visibility closer to the point where the action is at results in better control and faster laps.
 
I seem to only be able to enjoy the chase cam. in cockpit view. I can't turn my head to look at the corner. while in bumper cam, I can't feel how big my car is. The screen size is the same whether I drive a mini or an Enzo, so where is the edge? In chase view, I can see my apex and toss my car into it easier than I can in the other views.
 
HBR-Roadhog
Note Bumper cam is located at the front bumper
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"bumper" cam is not located at the bumper. It's on the windshield (or somewhere between it and the driving position), in the middle and at the same height of the head.
I use to call it invisible cockpit view, even if it's not exactly the same thing.
 
I don’t think the physics are different, just your perception of them (or how you enter them).You you “feel” in a cockpit or bumper cam maybe actually be different than what you expect to see in a chase cam. It’s a little hard to test.
 
In all the GT games I've used the chase cam at least 90% of the time. I like to use either the roof or the chase cam in the ZR1, but with the FGT I can only use the chase cam.
 
hardvibes
"bumper" cam is not located at the bumper. It's on the windshield (or somewhere between it and the driving position), in the middle and at the same height of the head.
I use to call it invisible cockpit view, even if it's not exactly the same thing.
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You're thinking of something else.

Bumper cam is right at bumper height. If you run into the back of another car your screen will be filled with bumper.
 
Supercheyenne
You're thinking of something else.

Bumper cam is right at bumper height. If you run into the back of another car your screen will be filled with bumper.
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Try to switch between cockpit and "bumper" cam and tell me if you see a difference in height ;). Do it when you're stationary and look for close visual benchmarks like buildings or signs. Even the road would do.
 
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Wow u guys are serious over this... The physcis are identical, it should be very obvious they would not have diff physics for each view.

Everything behaves the same, the only difference is the view.

The reason you think the physcis are different is because in chase cam, they have not conveyed ANY of the bumps or minor changes in pitch/roll of the car that you do get conveyed in bumper or cockpit view, which gives you a more direct feeling of being "connected" to the car. (BTW i know bumper cam is more bottom of the windshiled view, but lets agree to call it bumper view for ease.)

The roof view does not convey this info either.

As for the view, its crazy you think you get a better line of sight in bumper view than in chase cam.
Chase cam clearly has a massive advantage in this regard, you get to see the whole track from a much clearer angle, and also further into and more of track.

That said I know exactly what you are reffering to when you say you have a different experience in bumper cam over chase cam.
Trust me all of it is attributed to the bumps ptich and/roll of the car being conveyed through movemen in the screen thus you have a better insight into what the car is doing and the conditions its under at any given time.
Chase cam feels dead becasue the camera doesnt convey any of this, rather its mounted a locked distance away from the car and simply loosely follows what direction the car is pointing in a 2d plane.
 
My driving changes with the different views for sure. No idea on the physics though.

I cannot drift using the "chase cam". The only way I can drift (poorly) is use the hood or in-car cam. Using the full overhead angle, I drive the tail of the car and, for drifting, that isn't the way to go. If I can't see the rear end slide around, I drive the nose of the car and I am 100% better at it that way.

Basically, for best results, I use the Hood Cam for dirt and snow and overhead cam for other tracks...usually.
It is odd though...some tracks I drive better using in-car view. Just depends. Makes little sense, really.
 
xSNAKEx
The reason you think the physcis are different is because in chase cam, they have not conveyed ANY of the bumps or minor changes in pitch/roll of the car that you do get conveyed in bumper or cockpit view, which gives you a more direct feeling of being "connected" to the car.
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To me, you are describing differences in physics between the two camera views with this statement. Not trying to argue, just clarifying what I am trying to say in my OP.



I cannot drift using the "chase cam". The only way I can drift (poorly) is use the hood or in-car cam. Using the full overhead angle, I drive the tail of the car and, for drifting, that isn't the way to go. If I can't see the rear end slide around, I drive the nose of the car and I am 100% better at it that way.
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Same here. Describes my experiences with the hood cam very well.
 
Physics are the same but viewpoint makes a big difference. I prefer bumper/hood/cockpit for serious driving and chase for drooling over the cars.
 
SS_1182
To me, you are describing differences in physics between the two camera views with this statement. Not trying to argue, just clarifying what I am trying to say in my OP.
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? No, you seem to be misunderstanding entirely.
I am descrbibing diffrences in how the movement of the car is conveyed through the screen, not the calculation of the actual physics model.

i.e stable camera in chase cam that isn't stuck to the car as opposed to bumper cam which is stuck to the car.

Is it really that hatd to understand? One camera moves behind the car like a helicopter independant of its movement, and the other is like bolted to the frame...
 
I have a hard time understanding why anyone interested in simulators and their physics would want to use anything but cockpit view (interior, alt. bumper/hood). That's where you get your moneys worth, as in all the little cues that conveys the details of the vehicle dynamics - and we all know that the devil is in the details :sly:

DJ
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Its not really about different physics, but the 3rd person view of the car (aka chase) is really poorly made, and its a issue of most GT games.

Always my favorite camera at any racing game is the 3rd person view, for several reason. I can enjoy my car, see the car angle better while drifting, have a 360º view of my space, see my partner distance while tandeming instead "guess".

But a chase view to be usefull, need basicaly 2 things. Firstble it must not follow the car movements and let it a bit loose. And secondly it must let you be able to see the car´s nose. And both things doesn´t happens on GT 5.

GT 5 chase cam horizontal movements are bounded to the car body, and almost never you can see its nose. Its annoying because you can´t feel the car or see your front space between you and anything (opponent, apexes).

So i use the hood/roof camera, not because i like it but only because is the only optimized camera in the game, all the other have it own issues.
 
DrJustice
I have a hard time understanding why anyone interested in simulators and their physics would want to use anything but cockpit view (interior, alt. bumper/hood). That's where you get your moneys worth, as in all the little cues that conveys the details of the vehicle dynamics - and we all know that the devil is in the details :sly:

DJ
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I'm all about realism, I use 3rd person. Why? It gives me the most realistic situational awareness. I find bumper unusable. Cockpit it good, but the field of view and awareness is much less than what I get in a real car. Maybe if there were head tracking, no names floating above cars, and no list of drivers blocking my mirrors I could use cockpit and be as good as chase, but those options aren't available right now.

Cockpit should be the most realistic, but there is room for improvement. Just because it puts the camera in the right spot doesn't mean it's 100% accurate.
 
I only use chase cam, as this affords me the best possible view of the track and my car. I love the fact that I also get to view much more of my car. I have no problem with space relations using the chase cam. I can brake just enough when going into corners to get the rear end to move over enough to catch my line coming out of the turn. I have always used chase cam in racing games because the cockpit view seems claustrophobic to me. Sorry I assume that when everyone is referring to chase cam, that It means 3rd person view.
 
daltonlm
Its not really about different physics, but the 3rd person view of the car (aka chase) is really poorly made, and its a issue of most GT games.
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Totally agree. Before Gran Turismo, I used to play all racing games from chase camera. But GT's was so terrible that I had to learn bumper cam. Which I'm now very thankful of, I think it's a far better way of observing how the car reacts.

Recently, I tried racing with different cameras, just to check whether cockpit or windscreen is actually better for GT5. In the end, I stuck with bumper cam, because it gives you the earliest indication that the car is yawing. This is really important because our vestibule isn't much help for video games!

I was hoping to switch to windshield/roof cam (whatever it is meant to be), to improve the realism, but I found it disconcerting that the viewpoint was so high. Guess it must be "top of windscreen cam", cos you even look down on cars that are shorter than yours. Also, the feedback from the suspension seems to be dulled compared to bumper cam.

As for the physics being different, I actually thought they were when I first switched to chase camera. It feels more understeery, but now I think that's just the impression you get from not being able to observe the slight rear slip angle that happens during balanced cornering.
 
Exorcet
no names floating above cars, and no list of drivers blocking my mirrors I could use cockpit and be as good as chase
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Turn the hud off and you're all set.

I always use cockpit view if I'm driving a premium car and bumper for standards. Since simulators have yet to implement a way for your arse to feel when the car is starting to kick loose the only way to sense it is by reacting quickly to what you see and what you feel from force feedback. By what you see I mean the lateral movement of the camera. With chase cam I just can't react to this quickly enough and can never correct slides.
 
the physics don't change but the way your movements from ds3 are traslated to steering inputs etc. does. only happens with dualshock I find tho

I'm usually bumper cam, feels the most direct to me.
 
OK8
Turn the hud off and you're all set.

I always use cockpit view if I'm driving a premium car and bumper for standards. Since simulators have yet to implement a way for your arse to feel when the car is starting to kick loose the only way to sense it is by reacting quickly to what you see and what you feel from force feedback. By what you see I mean the lateral movement of the camera. With chase cam I just can't react to this quickly enough and can never correct slides.
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an old ps2 racing game called enthusia used a tunnel vision kind of system to simulate the cars movement , worked well to give you idea of weightshift before the car actually moves. actual brilliant game for it's age.
 
DrJustice
I have a hard time understanding why anyone interested in simulators and their physics would want to use anything but cockpit view (interior, alt. bumper/hood). That's where you get your moneys worth, as in all the little cues that conveys the details of the vehicle dynamics - and we all know that the devil is in the details :sly:

DJ
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I use the full view so I can see what the rear of the car is doing. With the other views, I can sometimes sense what's going on, but other times I'm dead wrong and end up spinning.

Using the full view allows me to ensure my slip angles on corner entry are correct and stable.
 
i like seeing the car and the tire smoke when i drift. when i put my head down and go for it I also take better lines and have faster lap times in 3rd person view
 
Cockpit view always felt so claustrophobic for me; I always had a better sense of my car was when using chase cam.

Until I teamed up with two mates to use the multi-monitor feature. Cockpit cam when you have a whole screen dedicated to the view out your left window and a whole screen dedicated to the view out your right window is freakin' amazing.

If I had permanent access to three screens, three PS3s and three GT5s... I'd use multi-monitor cockpit cam at every available opportunity.
 

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