Driving without ABS - Is it really slower?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hig-GT
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Braking without ABS is just too unrealistic, the brakes seem to lock up at the first sniff of being touched too hard, when in reality you litterally ram your foot through the floor with pressure braking at high speeds before easing off as the speed decreases to avoid locking. In GT5 however you can be doing 200mph and go 50% brakes and lock them.

ABS aint ideal but set to 1 its the closest compromise.


If the braking without ABS was realistic in GT5 then people wouldnt use it, I don't use ABS in any other racing game and have no issues with it.
 
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I tried racing with abs off and the brake bias set to 1/0 and it locks up immediately pretty much. Back to abs 3 for me lol.
 
yep its tenths slower it really adds up in the end forsure though. just got to slow down sooner and maybe lose ur position in the lineup:tup:
 
I run with it set on 1 for every car I drive. I win a lot of races so I dont think it is holding me back at all.
 
Bigbazz
Braking without ABS is just too unrealistic, the brakes seem to lock up at the first sniff of being touched too hard, when in reality you litterally ram your foot through the floor with pressure braking at high speeds before easing off as the speed decreases to avoid locking. In GT5 however you can be doing 200mph and go 50% brakes and lock them.

ABS aint ideal but set to 1 its the closest compromise.


If the braking without ABS was realistic in GT5 then people wouldnt use it, I don't use ABS in any other racing game and have no issues with it.
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I'm glad someone else pointed this out.

I learned to drive with all aids off. I golded all events in gt5p with everything on 0. I did it though, just to better my technique. I've messed around with all of the settings after getting good at driving with no aids and I don't find them beneficial except for the ABS. I can drive it that way, but many cars just don't respond realistically. I mean these are high end sports cars that can't pull off braking like I do in my toyota matrix?

All that being said, it depends on the car but sometimes I put it up to 2 and I find that is plenty, and I'm a bit faster sometimes with it than w/o it. I don't find it increases your braking zone as it allows you to brake into a corner better than you normally could so the time gained makes up for it.
 
phil bell
Yes it is.And yes,but he said no matter what computer's can't outdo humans and will slow us down so I was just using an example.No comparison intended.
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This is totally not true. Traction control and stability control systems are safety features, not performance features. If the traction control system knew exactly how much track it had left to work with, I guarantee you it could do a better job of picking the fastest line through the corner.
 
Bigbazz
Braking without ABS is just too unrealistic, the brakes seem to lock up at the first sniff of being touched too hard, when in reality you litterally ram your foot through the floor with pressure braking at high speeds before easing off as the speed decreases to avoid locking. In GT5 however you can be doing 200mph and go 50% brakes and lock them.

ABS aint ideal but set to 1 its the closest compromise.


If the braking without ABS was realistic in GT5 then people wouldnt use it, I don't use ABS in any other racing game and have no issues with it.
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I don't use half of the brake pedal travel on GT5 either, but I see it as a performance upgrade, how a car should be when tailored towards performance driving, since if you can't lock the brakes with full force you are not braking to maximum effect.

The only time I remember IRL with brake pedals going to the floor is when the brake overheat, and that's with a ****** corolla rental one make race car. Pedals shouldn't go to the floor unless your brakes are not up for the task.
 
Personally I've always felt that the brakes in GT games have been too strong. I'm the same way, I rarely use full braking on my G25 setup.
 
Drive a Murcielago LP640,it's pretty similar abs on or off,same techniques needed.It's a good practice car for braking.
 
tgrey
This is totally not true. Traction control and stability control systems are safety features, not performance features. If the traction control system knew exactly how much track it had left to work with, I guarantee you it could do a better job of picking the fastest line through the corner.
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Huh?I just said modern tc systems in reality can help the driver but in GT5 is too intrusive.So what is untrue?
 
I did all the braking lisences with abs off, 1-3,0
Im using a DS3 so when driving with abs off makes me spin out by locking the brakes too much specially when pushing hard and battling so I use abs1. If I had a wheel I would deff drive with abs off. I bought the collectors (or signature? book and game only) edition and I read in the Apex book that quoted by Kaz he says using no abs is much quicker where you can get a shorter braking point, push the brakes quickly all the way in and then quickly adjust the braking so you dont lock up your wheels. When locking your brakes it your controller should been shaking or something becouse its verry difficoult to tell when your locking your brakes before its too late, and anyway controlling the brakes with the square button its much more difficoult then controlling amount of acceleration with the X button IMO.

EDIT: textmsg type
 
JJ72
I don't use half of the brake pedal travel on GT5 either, but I see it as a performance upgrade, how a car should be when tailored towards performance driving, since if you can't lock the brakes with full force you are not braking to maximum effect.

The only time I remember IRL with brake pedals going to the floor is when the brake overheat, and that's with a ****** corolla rental one make race car. Pedals shouldn't go to the floor unless your brakes are not up for the task.
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Your last words just collect it all what matters. In racecars, the brakes ARE up for this task. Braking there normally works the way, that first you pedal it down, then slowly but continuously let off. This being cause racing brakes best performance area is when they're glowing :) If you let off too slow, lockup is possible, if too fast, you´ll most possibly overrun it.

That´s why it seems easy to overtake an opponent in front "on the brakes". But it isn´t really THAT easy...I tried ABS off in GT5, but lock-up is definetly an issue here. Will try to lower brake bias, since that´s the only thing I didn´t think about :) Seems easier than to change my driving style...
 
JJ72
I don't use half of the brake pedal travel on GT5 either, but I see it as a performance upgrade, how a car should be when tailored towards performance driving, since if you can't lock the brakes with full force you are not braking to maximum effect.

The only time I remember IRL with brake pedals going to the floor is when the brake overheat, and that's with a ****** corolla rental one make race car. Pedals shouldn't go to the floor unless your brakes are not up for the task.
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It obviously depends on the car, but in racing you should note how every driver talks about how strong your leg needs to be for braking, in a race car they ram those brakes right down to the floor at high speeds, and at high speed this is unlikely to lockup the brakes.

The issues with lockup come after, when the speed starts to decrease and the power of the brakes becomes stronger than the force of going through the wheels traveling through them, the wheels stop but the car keeps going. The technique of braking is to maximise them to the point where they are near lockup for maximum stopping power but to ease off the pressure properly as speed decreases so that you avoid lockup.


In GT5 the brakes simply lockup very easily and this technique is not something you can pull off. It works perfect in Rfactor and iRacing, and the best simulator for brakes is NetKar Pro. on the Ferrari Virtual Academy F1 simulator this is just nailed spot on, and if you look at the telemetry from felipe massa and alonso you can see the above technique displayed perfectly.

Obviously not all cars will work like this, but in GT5 it just seems that every car locks up ridiculously easy.
 
liQster
if you have a fanatec with clubsports, you´ll be as fast as with abs turned on, mby even faster, i guess.

if you have a g27 like me you do not want to turn off abs (set on 1) because pd screwed up support of the pedals on this one..
if you use ds3 i cannot say anything to this topic since i never used it. :)
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Strange, I drive with an old school DFP and I can drive with no ABS, no problem... You just have to feather the brake pedal and it requires a bit more concentration, but not much :D
 
Blitz187
Strange, I drive with an old school DFP and I can drive with no ABS, no problem... You just have to feather the brake pedal and it requires a bit more concentration, but not much :D
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not much of a concentration issue, even if i hit the brake like 10% the tires stall. mby the dfp pedals aren´t that sensitive, since it is a official supported wheel. i don´t know..

i played other racing games, like gtr evo, f12010 or dirt2 (on pc) and had no problems driving without abs. this problem only appears in gt5..
 
No, i'ts not a concentration issue. Even light braking with many cars, immediate lockup. Feathering the brakes doesnt' help when they lock up at first touch. Instant tire overheat and skid out.
 
AbS is just there to keep your brakes from locking. If you don't have it you will have locking brakes which will make you slower.
 
I've done more testing.I just changed the brake bias in my ACR Viper from 5-5 to 5-3 and my laptimes with ABS off are very nearly the same as the time with ABS on.And this is observed on the Nurburgring 24h so I really think that with a good enough driver and setup,ABS is not slower Hig-GT.
 
Counter_Z23
I'd normally go for brake bias 2-1 or 3-0 when driving with ABS off, it seems easier when they are lower.
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I agree, I have been using a 1-0 setting and can almost use them like your supposed to. Push them hard at high speed then slowly let off and try not to lock at the slower speeds. Still not the time saver it is in FM3, but it is a bit more realistic if you go through the enormous hassle of adjusting every single car to be able to not use abs. :crazy:
 
liQster
not much of a concentration issue, even if i hit the brake like 10% the tires stall. mby the dfp pedals aren´t that sensitive, since it is a official supported wheel. i don´t know..

i played other racing games, like gtr evo, f12010 or dirt2 (on pc) and had no problems driving without abs. this problem only appears in gt5..
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What kind of bias are you using? I have them set really low... I mostly end up on 2/0 or some variation close to that... If I go higher with the numbers, then I experience the scenarios youre talking about.
 
Bigbazz
Braking without ABS is just too unrealistic, the brakes seem to lock up at the first sniff of being touched too hard, when in reality you litterally ram your foot through the floor with pressure braking at high speeds before easing off as the speed decreases to avoid locking. In GT5 however you can be doing 200mph and go 50% brakes and lock them.
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This depends on the car, though, and whether or not you've got your brake balancer on. Personally, I usually have the balancer set at 0/0 for all cars, unless they're full tunes or racing cars. Brakes still lock with ABS off with some cars, but it's not usually an instant thing anymore.
 
Parnelli Bone
This depends on the car, though, and whether or not you've got your brake balancer on. Personally, I usually have the balancer set at 0/0 for all cars, unless they're full tunes or racing cars. Brakes still lock with ABS off with some cars, but it's not usually an instant thing anymore.
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0/0? Wow. Didn´t try that "extreme" setting though. Really want to disable ABS since it gives me more control. But I'm always locking up those tyres.

Does it mean in some way, that with brake bias 0/0 the game lets YOUR feet and pedals do the whole work so that you have to use the whole range of the brake pedal? Just wondering...
 
I've tried to race without ABS, but I find I get passed under braking. I, like many others, find that without ABS the tires lock up way to quickly, and with a DS3 it's really hard to get a proper level. It your good and quick with without it then stick with the way your driving, theres no reason to go back if your faster without, as it's a personal preference. With some cars you need driving aids (Zonda I'm looking at you) both in real life and in game. Cars like the 599 GTO are better with aids, than without, as the computers can keep you right on the edge at all times, dictating braking force, power sent to the rear wheels, and to some extent, even steering allowing no under or oversteer. These aids aren't well transferred into GT5, but what can you really do about it.
 
Bigbazz
It obviously depends on the car, but in racing you should note how every driver talks about how strong your leg needs to be for braking, in a race car they ram those brakes right down to the floor at high speeds, and at high speed this is unlikely to lockup the brakes.

The issues with lockup come after, when the speed starts to decrease and the power of the brakes becomes stronger than the force of going through the wheels traveling through them, the wheels stop but the car keeps going. The technique of braking is to maximise them to the point where they are near lockup for maximum stopping power but to ease off the pressure properly as speed decreases so that you avoid lockup.


In GT5 the brakes simply lockup very easily and this technique is not something you can pull off. It works perfect in Rfactor and iRacing, and the best simulator for brakes is NetKar Pro. on the Ferrari Virtual Academy F1 simulator this is just nailed spot on, and if you look at the telemetry from felipe massa and alonso you can see the above technique displayed perfectly.

Obviously not all cars will work like this, but in GT5 it just seems that every car locks up ridiculously easy.
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I am pretty certain they can't use full brake travel in a race car, first off the brakes in a race car is really hard (because of the hydraulics), and my experience with a few race cars is that when the hydraulics are empty, the brake pedal does go to full physical travel, however once the hydraulics are working you only use less than half of that.

this is not an absolute prove, but look at the amount of braking shown in this telemetry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz9kSa__q_s

I don't have any problem with lockups in GT5 at all, I have control in how much it locks, I can intentionally lock it up and regain grip, and if I set the brake force to really really low (1:0 for example), I can floor the brakes with no problem too.

maybe there's some hidden difference between our wheel setup, but I really can't tell what's the difference other than I never aware braking as a GT5 specific problem, I drive it like how I drive every other sims.
 
"if you have a fanatec with clubsports, you´ll be as fast as with abs turned on, mby even faster, i guess."

Yep - I have clubsports and the additional control you get with ABS off is great. I use 5 front, 1 rear, brake balance.
 
Blitz187
What kind of bias are you using? I have them set really low... I mostly end up on 2/0 or some variation close to that... If I go higher with the numbers, then I experience the scenarios youre talking about.
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well, i don´t really know what you mean with that to be honest. i use the g27 original pedals, didn´t set them upside down or something. i have a good rig, so my legs are comfortable. i can define the pressure i do on the braking pedal exactly. it´s definately a support issue with the g27. as i said, i don´t have any problems driving without abs in other games.

correct me if i missunderstood what you meant with "bias". the word has several meanings and english is not my native language, so please explain a bit more if i got you wrong 👍

*edit*

ah, you mean ingame settings on the car? usually stock, i don´t tune most cars (yep yep, i know i should :> )
 

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