Driving Without ABS: Is it worth it?

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Hi Ridox do you still host private rooms like you did last time for others to learn ABS OFF? I need help finding the right BB settings for higher class race cars like Super GT (GT500 XANAVI Nismo Z, GT500 ARTA NSX, GT300 Lexus IS, etc.), Le mans endurance race cars (Audi R10 TDI, Peugeot HDi FAP).

Yes, I still do from time to time, add me :GTP_Orido, do you use wheel or controller, as the pedal and DS3 might affect the preferred BB. If you use DS2 with converter, then I am pretty sure you can run higher BB with little problem, as the face buttons are way better than DS3.

 

[GTPLam]

I just wished PD would've given us a universal BB setting for each car in the game so that way we don't have to figure it out ourselves!!

Sorry I just have one more question regarding BB setting. So if I use a BB setting for a car using one type of tire compound like Sports Medium, would it still be the same BB setting if I switched to a different tire compound like Racing Hard or Comfort Soft? For a stock Ferrari F430 on Sports Hard tires using a BB setting of 5/2 would still be using 5/2 if I switched to Comfort Soft tires?

 

[TomBrady]

In a real car without ABS, you can feel through the brake pedal when the wheels are about to lock up. In GT, without a force feedback pedal setup, you cannot.

Because of that, driving without ABS in GT is too much of a lottery in my opinion.

Not necessarily, it's just a lot more difficult to get used to. If your pedals had a load cell instead of a potentiometer, it would be much easier. Load cells measure pressure, instead of position. I'm pretty sure that's what it's like in a real car. The degree at which the brakes are applied is based on how much pressure you put on the pedal.

So if you have a DFGT, or a G27, you're using positional memory instead of muscle memory I guess. it's harder to do and less natural but not impossible. I race often with ABS off but I do find that it depends on the car and tires. Some cars just behave differently under braking in GT5, as they should, it's more realistic that way.

I definitely never use ABS with F1 cars and I don't think anyone should. It's just unnecessary, and I think it may be faster. One of the, if not the fastest F1 driver in GT5 (ImmortalPilot) never uses ABS.

A set of fanatec clubsport pedals would be cool, not only does the brake have a load cell but it also vibrates when the brakes lock up.

 

[masterplan]

Yes there is. Fanatec.

But only Club Sport pedals for 250 EUR, I think.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I just wished PD would've given us a universal BB setting for each car in the game so that way we don't have to figure it out ourselves!!

Sorry I just have one more question regarding BB setting. So if I use a BB setting for a car using one type of tire compound like Sports Medium, would it still be the same BB setting if I switched to a different tire compound like Racing Hard or Comfort Soft? For a stock Ferrari F430 on Sports Hard tires using a BB setting of 5/2 would still be using 5/2 if I switched to Comfort Soft tires?

That is a very good question my friend, tire compound will influence the braking balance of a car, although the degree of influence is not the same on every car or layout ( FR,FF,MR,RR) An example : I can run Cizeta V16T stock on comfort medium using BB 9/7, but on higher grip tire like sports or racing tire, I would have to adjust the BB again to get the best out of it. The Ferrari F430 stock, I am using BB 8/4 with CS, then with SH BB would be around 8/5, it will also depend on the driver ability to modulate and the controller used, higher BB will always need more delicate braking and better modulation. The higher the grip of the tire, the better is the braking performance, so you can lower the BB to get higher threshold of braking pressure before locking ( if you find modulating at less than 60% difficult ), but the limit seems to be broken more sudden on sports or racing tires.

Higher grip tire = better braking performance - lower BB can be used to achieve good braking - generally higher pressure before locking.
Lower grip tire = lower braking performance - to compensate use higher BB numbers, needs to be more delicate, ie : 9/7 - tire lock up after 50% brake used.

I'll give a nice trick to tune the BB setting, run the car at Tsukuba, Motegi Road or Fuji, but you can always try this on any track you like. Disable tire wear for testing.

1. Run BB 10/0, do several high speed and low speed braking, do the best as you can, take a note of percentage of brake bar when the front tire start to lock up.

2. Reduce BB at front, while rear at 0, until you find the front less prone to locking at braking pressure that you are comfortable with.

3. Lets say you have 6 front, now increase rear to the same number (6), then try on the low speed and high speed corners, try to trail brake late, and the car will start to tail out easily. Lower the rear one by one until the car give the car slight understeer or oversteer on late corner entry to suit your taste and driving style. Remember you can brake in corners, but it needs to be very gentle ( 10% of brake pressure at most )

Another good sign when to eased off the brake is when tires about start to become red, the squeal gets louder, or the car start to squirm/losing balance with high rear BB number.

I've posted this before, but for comparison to most ABS users, I posted the Academy Seasonals TT with bone stock GTR Black Edition GTA- 541pp, 526hp, 1730kg, using CS with BB 9/6, a very high number, this allows me to brake late and better to compete with ABS driver, my time was 1:58.286

 

[GTPLam]

That is a very good question my friend, tire compound will influence the braking balance of a car, although the degree of influence is not the same on every car or layout ( FR,FF,MR,RR) An example : I can run Cizeta V16T stock on comfort medium using BB 9/7, but on higher grip tire like sports or racing tire, I would have to adjust the BB again to get the best out of it. The Ferrari F430 stock, I am using BB 8/4 with CS, then with SH BB would be around 8/5, it will also depend on the driver ability to modulate and the controller used, higher BB will always need more delicate braking and better modulation. The higher the grip of the tire, the better is the braking performance, so you can lower the BB to get higher threshold of braking pressure before locking ( if you find modulating at less than 60% difficult ), but the limit seems to be broken more sudden on sports or racing tires.

So the range of BB setting is like having a choice of trade offs to make in different situations of separating out the advantages and disadvantages that comes during a race to say, am I right? So having higher BB settings (above 10 total) means shorter stopping distance to outbrake those that are using ABS1 but at the cost of more delicate sensitive brake control and higher chance of lock-up if not gentle enough. But on the other hand, having low BB settings like 2/0, 3/0, 2/1, or 3/1 will mimic the driving style of ABS1, being able to brake almost fully with minimal lock-up but sacrificing the benefit of stopping earlier. Then comes the perfect middle in between BB setting choice of the two extremes (5/1, 5/2, 6/2, etc.), which offers a little bit of both sides; Not too much gentle braking is required and not too little stopping power to lose out on, which is why I think this is the perfect all-around BB setting in my opinion, especially for casual driving and those casual drivers out there like me!

Well thanks for the detailed insight on this topic Ridox!! You sure helped clear up a lot of the confusion I had on choosing the right BB setting. I think I’m starting to understand the purpose of BB setting more and more now! Now I know why PD didn’t just give us a universal BB setting for each car. It wouldn’t make any sense

*Note: On the side, I also notice from my experience that anything above 4 for the rear BB is a little too much and will make trail braking really hard, if not impossible to do. But straight-line braking is still doable except the brakes must be completely off when turning in.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

So the range of BB setting is like having a choice of trade offs to make in different situations of separating out the advantages and disadvantages that comes during a race to say, am I right? So having higher BB settings (above 10 total) means shorter stopping distance to outbrake those that are using ABS1 but at the cost of more delicate sensitive brake control and higher chance of lock-up if not gentle enough. But on the other hand, having low BB settings like 2/0, 3/0, 2/1, or 3/1 will mimic the driving style of ABS1, being able to brake almost fully with minimal lock-up but sacrificing the benefit of stopping earlier. Then comes the perfect middle in between BB setting choice of the two extremes (5/1, 5/2, 6/2, etc.), which offers a little bit of both sides; Not too much gentle braking is required and not too little stopping power to lose out on, which is why I think this is the perfect all-around BB setting in my opinion, especially for casual driving and those casual drivers out there like me!

Well thanks for the detailed insight on this topic Ridox!! You sure helped clear up a lot of the confusion I had on choosing the right BB setting. I think I’m starting to understand the purpose of BB setting more and more now! Now I know why PD didn’t just give us a universal BB setting for each car. It wouldn’t make any sense

*Note: On the side, I also notice from my experience that anything above 4 for the rear BB is a little too much and will make trail braking really hard, if not impossible to do. But straight-line braking is still doable except the brakes must be completely off when turning in.

The numbers are really depend on the driver ability to accurately apply brake pressure ( the red bar fill rate and level ). With the DS2 stick that I used, I can confidently brake at any pressure level, from 10%-100% accurately, this alone allows higher BB numbers than most people do ( including ABS users ).

The rear brake above 4 where you experienced rear break loose when trail braking, it does happen to certain cars, I did not have that on the GTR Black Edition even with 9/6. But it certainly could happen on other cars (FR) if the brake pressure applied is too much.

Another method to run high BB is to blip the brake when shifting down the gear, it might be hard to do at first, but this together with engine braking, will boost brake performance while reducing the chance of wheel lock up. Blip the brake means apply constant pressure at 50% then when shifting down increase it to 75% for split second then back to 50% again. I did this while also blipping the throttle.

By the way, are you using wheel or stick ? DS3 is notorious for bad face buttons pressure travel and sensitivity. If you have old DS2 stick from PS2, use it - you'll need USB converter, but it will be worth it, if you drive without any aids in GT5. The difference is night and day.

 

[GTPLam]

Theoretically speaking, all BB settings can be used for any car if you know how to control it. There's no right or wrong setting I believe

You say that but cars with ABS absolutely suck at braking.

I don't think cars with ABS in real life suck that bad. If I'm not mistaken, threshold braking can still be practice and applied even if your car in real life has ABS on it, well unless your car has a really sensitive ABS system installed such as the newer cars we have now a days

By the way, are you using wheel or stick ? DS3 is notorious for bad face buttons pressure travel and sensitivity. If you have old DS2 stick from PS2, use it - you'll need USB converter, but it will be worth it, if you drive without any aids in GT5. The difference is night and day.

I use the wheel for ABSOFF but for the DS3 I have to turn on ABS1. I find it really hard and frustrating to control with the DS3 even I use the R2 and L2 triggers for accelerating/braking. Maybe I'm just not good with my fingers at all or doing something wrong

 

[NCRthree]

Did a couple test runs last night with ABS off. No other aids per usual.

Seems like the first problem is the DFGT pedals. There's absolutely no pedal feel which makes any modulation impossible at least for me. Instant lock up. ABS ON cures that issue-no wonder I never tried OFF again! Then kept adding resistance. First a couple small bungee cords. Not enough. Then cut up a firm sponge sticking it in the slot under the pedal. Added enough until I could easily tell where my pedal was in relation to the brake indicator. Suddenly I could feel modulation! Awesome-now I see why you guys like ABS off. It feels more like real brakes!

Tried a simple light car at first. 89 Miata on Comfort Hards. Fully stock, 4/2 BB. Ran Tsukuba and a custom track. Man, what a difference. I easily adjusted to the pedal travel, no issue trail braking. Switched back to ABS on and hated it, heh. The ABS on was doing all the "thinking" for me. Then ran the old Alfa race car around Monza on Race Hards 3/2 bb. Same result-a much more realistic feel.

Then used the '12 Aston. Heavy car for sure. Sport Hard on a custom track I'd run a lot of hot laps with the car previously. Lots of tricky transitions. Tried BB of 5/3. This became difficult. Maybe I needed to set the BB lower as I kept having the snap oversteer issue. I really had to make sure to keep a little throttle on when getting off the brakes to rotate into a tight turn with elevation. Spun out a lot. However when I got it right I was nearly able to match my fastest lap times with ABS on. But too on edge for a pleasant drive.

The modulation feel is a revelation. In just one lap in the Miata, I was able to see that ABS ON really is a brake assist. However without adding some pedal resistance, it was extremely difficult if not impossible to brake with ABS OFF for me.

 

[Woodski_427]

Theoretically speaking, all BB settings can be used for any car if you know how to control it. There's no right or wrong setting I believe

Yes. As Ridox2JZGTE has said, the fine tuning is down to how much pressure you can modulate convincingly with your thumb/finger/foot. For example I use much lower number than he does - rarely going above 6/4

But as Ridox also mentioned, for added realism you could use low numbers for old cars, higher for newer cars, but you also need to consider speed and weight: eg 3/1 probably isn't going to be enough on a LM race car as you approach Mulsanne corner at 200mph, likewise a heavy barge like a US pickup or the Pikes Peak Quattro needs a slightly higher number.

I use the wheel for ABSOFF but for the DS3 I have to turn on ABS1. I find it really hard and frustrating to control with the DS3 even I use the R2 and L2 triggers for accelerating/braking. Maybe I'm just not good with my fingers at all or doing something wrong

I started off that way, but got used to the triggers pretty quickly. My biggest problem with DS3 is the rapid steering movements - my thumb is just not that delicate!

Did a couple test runs last night with ABS off. No other aids per usual.

The modulation feel is a revelation. In just one lap in the Miata, I was able to see that ABS ON really is a brake assist. However without adding some pedal resistance, it was extremely difficult if not impossible to brake with ABS OFF for me.

Great stuff! 👍 The sponge makes a massive difference. I believe they are the same pedals as the old DF Pro - I've got a firm blue sponge ball wedged in mine I was OK without, but locked up a fair bit more.

You will find that bumpy tracks such as Aso custom tracks, or Trial Mountain and Deep Forest are suddenly different. You might need different braking zones or approaches.

Have you tuned your Aston at all? Sometimes ABS tunes don't work so well.

As an aside, I had great fun driving Sarthe - trail braking the Jag XJR-9 into Mulsanne Corner from over 200mph and keeping it together as the car squirrels about and then nailing the double braking zone for Arnage. You just don't get that with ABS because the cars are so stable.

 

[NCRthree]

@Woodski-No the Aston is untuned. Been running all cars at default suspension offline.

My goal is to get the most realism out of stock cars. With that in mind, I would have assumed the cars' brake settings at default would most accurately reflect that even if it registers 5/5. I've always thought that was just a starting point to tune from-not actually a 50/50 brake bias or brake strength. But it looks like to get any pedal feel you need to run ABS OFF making that setting very difficult to drive with.

So I'm still left with the question of what are the "real" factory brake settings. If PD has accurately modeled real suspensions then I just assumed the default BB was accurate too. Looks like that's an assumption to forget.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

For those who use pedals, that sponge trick should help, and there is this little tip for high BB of total more than 8, ie 5/3.
I would suggest to use a thick and firmer sponge to limit the travel and have more resistance, so that when the foot pressed the brake pedal as hard as usually does, it will only register 75%-85% brake in the game. This makes it a bit easier to modulate at less than 50%, while applying 100% is still possible, which will require more effort.

 

[ANNIHILATOR90]

Is it worth it? I think it all matters whether you enjoy it or not.
I just like to cruise with stock cars/no aids on the Nordschleife, but for races I don't want to take any risks and just use ABS.
I also notice it improves my driving overall when I'm driving with ABS

And, here's the part that almost always gets me when I have to brake from a high speed for a low speed corner: the rear wheels may lock up while the front wheels are still gripping. This causes the rear to slide out, even if you're braking in a straight line. If you tried to counter steer, the car violently rotates to the other direction, seemingly using the front tyres as a pivot.

Would it not help if you adjusted the brake balance?

 

[Morgoth_666]

I used to have the "position vs pressure" issue with my old Driving Force wheel. It seemed to bother me much more in GT5 than in other games for some reason. Braking in GT5 just plain seems a bit weird anyway. I wish I knew about the spongeball/bungee fixes back then, as it really did take a couple of weeks of concentrating on it to properly train my foot to use the correct "brake pedal angle" to get comfortable with it.

After that wheel finally died(RIP, we've been through a lot since Gran Truismo 3. Not bad for a free hand-me-down.) I replaced it with a Fanatec GT3 & Clubsport pedals(a bit over $300 US for the combo at the time). The load cell brake does make it much easier to control brake pressure, although it doesn't actually vibrate when you've locked up - I think that is a feature only a few PC sims take advantage of.

You can however set it to vibrate at a certain pressure, so that it will remind you that you are near the limit of how much brake you ever want to use. There is a new version now but I believe they've just done improvements to the feel of it, rather than adding more robust lifelike pedal feedback(which still would only work if the game knows how to tell it to). It does feel much better for sure. And the on-board settings on the wheel really need to become industry standard for all wheels above entry-level.

I have the same issue as Woodski_427 with the DS3, I can work the triggers ok - the brake is just fine while the throttle is ridiculously sensitive above 50% but I can manage. But I have a terrible time trying to steer with it. I have also noticed the DS3's pressure sensitivity is SEVERELY lacking compared to the old DS2. Anyone who uses the face buttons for gas and brake would do well to look into trying to get a DS2 working with it like Ridox2J7GTE suggests.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

Is it worth it? I think it all matters whether you enjoy it or not.
I just like to cruise with stock cars/no aids on the Nordschleife, but for races I don't want to take any risks and just use ABS.
I also notice it improves my driving overall when I'm driving with ABS


Would it not help if you adjusted the brake balance?

Yes, I did mess with it. I wrote the OP while essentially clueless about ABS-less driving. I tried having the brake bias more towards the front of the car, i.e 4/2 F/R on my RX-7, both the 1991 Type R and the 2002 Spirit R, and it worked well enough for me for the most part. I use the L2 and R2 triggers for braking and accelerating, respectively. I still use the DPad to steer though. I've never liked steering with the analog sticks. They're way too picky with precision for my tastes (like, I'd just ram it to the northwest instead of just west and it won't register) and counter steering was a pain with the additional travel time for my left thumb.

Hearing everyone contribute to this discussion led me to wonder: has anyone tried driving a rear engined RUF with no ABS? I'm curious to see what brake balance people would use given the ridiculous mass distribution of the damned thing. I couldn't drive it even with ABS. It was too much of a handling bit:censored:. With regards to some of the "old ABSless cars vs new", I believe the RUFs in the game qualify as old, though not 1969 Dodge Charger kind of old. But still old regardless.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yes, I did mess with it. I wrote the OP while essentially clueless about ABS-less driving. I tried having the brake bias more towards the front of the car, i.e 4/2 F/R on my RX-7, both the 1991 Type R and the 2002 Spirit R, and it worked well enough for me for the most part. I use the L2 and R2 triggers for braking and accelerating, respectively. I still use the DPad to steer though. I've never liked steering with the analog sticks. They're way too picky with precision for my tastes (like, I'd just ram it to the northwest instead of just west and it won't register) and counter steering was a pain with the additional travel time for my left thumb.

Hearing everyone contribute to this discussion led me to wonder: has anyone tried driving a rear engined RUF with no ABS? I'm curious to see what brake balance people would use given the ridiculous mass distribution of the damned thing. I couldn't drive it even with ABS. It was too much of a handling bit:censored:. With regards to some of the "old ABSless cars vs new", I believe the RUFs in the game qualify as old, though not 1969 Dodge Charger kind of old. But still old regardless.

Which RUF you are referring to ? I did participate in GTP member organized race event driving RUF RGT using racing hard tires the BB 7/4. With CTR Yellow Bird I have BB 5/2 CS tire in stock condition. These are high numbers, if using wheels, maybe 4/2 for the RGT and 4/1 for the YellowBird.

I played with a wheel once, can't remember the model, my friend had it, it did have the sponge, I could run the same BB number on the exact same car and tires when I am using my DS2. It did took quite some laps to get used to, I have to make sure the red brake bar never filled more than 60% for consistency, once I got to memorize how much travel to reach that point, it was simpler than I thought it would be.

 

[sik180sx]

No abs for me with a wheel,i use BB 5/2 on all cars,i have noticed that,when abs is on it almost feels as though there is some sort of stability control when braking(not sure if it's true,imagining things maybe?) Also i have clubsport pedals which have a load cell,and i swear that each cars pedal resistance varies with abs off(again,not sure if my brain is messing with me?)

But it feels so rewarding having a nice,close,clean race with some fast guys while using the clutch and no abs,to be completely honest i don't think i've actually raced anyone that doesn't use abs.Not saying their isn't anyone besides me,i just havn't come across them yet.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Well you can start with me I race both online and offline without ABS or any other aids. You should join MclarenDesign's Clean & Relaxed Room shuffle, he hosted almost every night US time tho. In Queensland that would be around 1 or 2PM weekdays.

 

[GODfreyGT5]

In Project C.A.R.S you can feel through the wheel when your tyres are under strain, are near locking and actually locking. GT5 just has an on/off switch to it's grip, which really lets the game down.

 

[Blitz24]

Ironic for me but the cars I run better with no ABS on (on any track) are the F1 cars. For some reason I am really good at reading those cars even without ABS.

 

[ANNIHILATOR90]

Yes, I did mess with it. I wrote the OP while essentially clueless about ABS-less driving. I tried having the brake bias more towards the front of the car, i.e 4/2 F/R on my RX-7, both the 1991 Type R and the 2002 Spirit R, and it worked well enough for me for the most part. I use the L2 and R2 triggers for braking and accelerating, respectively. I still use the DPad to steer though. I've never liked steering with the analog sticks. They're way too picky with precision for my tastes (like, I'd just ram it to the northwest instead of just west and it won't register) and counter steering was a pain with the additional travel time for my left thumb.

Hey I did as well for a long long time, I hated steering with the analog stick for the exact same reasons. I even quit NFS simply because it didn't have the option to drive with the D-pad (and because they messed the series up, that might actually be the main reason).
Anyway, for the last 6 months or so I've been using the analog stick. The trick I use is to always push the stick forward and then turn it touching the edge (I hope you get the idea of what I'm trying to say). It makes it much easier to slightly steer left or right and to immediately shift from left to right or visa versa. You can have a lot more "feel" for it unlike just "vertically" using the analog stick.
It also feels a little more realistic, and I think it improved my driving (it's especially easier to control oversteer). I don't want to say it's "better" or that you should change, as I know you're probably perfectly fine with the D-pad (I've been there).

I've actually learned/changed a lot in GT5, I always used to race with the default aids in previous titles and in GT5 I changed to no aids and R2 / L2.

Hearing everyone contribute to this discussion led me to wonder: has anyone tried driving a rear engined RUF with no ABS? I'm curious to see what brake balance people would use given the ridiculous mass distribution of the damned thing. I couldn't drive it even with ABS. It was too much of a handling bit:censored:. With regards to some of the "old ABSless cars vs new", I believe the RUFs in the game qualify as old, though not 1969 Dodge Charger kind of old. But still old regardless.

I did with the Yellow Bird (comfort medium) and it feels like driving on soap, though it's fun. Just drive it with a big margin and I tabbed my throttle and braking, even if I'm not feel I'm not going to slide.

I also notice driving without ABS improves my driving overall, even when I'm driving with ABS.

Had to fix my own words.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

For anyone having problems getting used to analog stick, check this trick :

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=256326

It may be crude method, but it is very easy and cheap to do.

 

[Ryk]

Very interesting.
I've always ran No ABS and no TCS. And on a DS3 - it keeps things interesting over a lap and longer events you also get those neat black lines of shame when you lock up or spin up a wheel into or out of a corner.

Black lines that you learn from of course.

I've always been amazed how many people depend on ABS. But I enjoy the balancing act as you break heavily for a corner and try to keep a car on the limit of adhesion.

Wonder if Asparagus Rubber Bands will do...

Good read

 

[NCRthree]

Oh boy. Tested out a 07 BMW M3 and the 10 Vantage again with different ABS off BB settings. 3/1 and 4/2. Then running them with ABS1 on default 5/5 to compare. Stock hards on the same Toscano test track I've been using. Long sweeps with a twisty section with elevation changes. No crazy corners-just a mountain road kind of track with some long straights.

Kinda tired so my concentration wasn't that great. With those settings it's still so easy to lock the brakes up even with just a little brake effort. Going say 65mph on flat tarmac. I can put so much more brake effort in my real car and not have that effect. Maybe it's just gonna require a lot of new muscle memory. Really hard to get a good feel. Just a slight toe pressure on the brake is all it took to get 50% brake. Not as natural feeling as the 89 Miata I enjoyed so much yesterday. The Vantage made me a nervous wreck!

Going back to ABS1 with the M3 it felt like the transitions were more natural. I guess adding some pedal resistance made the brakes feel more realistic. Which is really what I'm looking for. Maybe it's the cars I've tried too. Open to suggestions. Thanks.


Edit: Adding more sponge helped a lot. DFGT pedals are probably never going to feel like I want though. Able to get a much better feel with the Vantage. Matched my best ABS1 time but little room for error-like it should be.

 

[sik180sx]

Well you can start with me I race both online and offline without ABS or any other aids. You should join MclarenDesign's Clean & Relaxed Room shuffle, he hosted almost every night US time tho. In Queensland that would be around 1 or 2PM weekdays.

Mate that sounds awesome will have to keep my eyes peeled for that one 👍

 

[Lion-Face]

But it feels so rewarding having a nice,close,clean race with some fast guys while using the clutch and no abs,to be completely honest i don't think i've actually raced anyone that doesn't use abs.Not saying their isn't anyone besides me,i just havn't come across them yet.

Bfgracing run a monday night enduro event that runs with no aids which you are welcome to come along to if you want something more suited to aus/nz hours. We do a bit of racing during the week in which hosted rooms have abs turned off also.

 

[bikmate]

I also use ABS1. I'm faster and I don't have the patience to be careful with a DS3, but once I get a wheel, I'll give no ABS another go.

edit: by the way, I'm using the right analogue stick. In my opinion you have more control over it than the triggers, even with modified trigger buttons (i.e. Gioteck Real triggers)