Driving without ABS - Tips & Advice

[Hig-GT]

Basically, I've just started driving without ABS, so thats no driver aids at all ... and so far I seem to be picking it up, granted it has taken 12 laps of the Nurburgring to start to get there but regardless I'm getting somewhere lol!

However I really need some help! You know the big long straight right at the end, you go down the hill and into that slow little complex where the pit entry is, I can't get my braking right for that area at all, locking up every time and smacking the barriers! Any advice?

Oh! And if someone could do me a big favour and lap there Ferrari F430 (standard barring LSD) around the Nurburgring and give me their best time that would be great (You can use ABS and any other aids barring SRF lol!) just to give me an idea of what times everyone else is doing, best I have run so far is a 7:02.443 (I ask for someone else to run this as I don't want to switch ABS back on as I'll pick up bad habits again lol! I know my F430 Scuderia did the Nurb in 6.40 so I'm hoping my standard F430 is a lot slower than that! )

Thanks

 

[Vinura]

when you lock up, release the brakes and press them again, and continue this process. This should reduce your braking distance.

 

[terribleLUCK]

Controller or wheel?

Im using a wheel and it took me about a week to get my braking right without ABS. What are your brake settings? For most cars that i drive without ABS i use 3 to the front and 1 to the rear. Seems to work for me.

And like Vinura said, if you do lock up you have to resist the urge to push harder and let go and try again.

Try to limit your braking in straight lines only while using no ABS, obvious i know, but i find any movement of the wheel under hard braking and you'll spin.

Also knowing the course and your braking markers obviously helps.

But like i said just practice.

 

[Bones Brigade]

when you lock up, release the brakes and press them again, and continue this process. This should reduce your braking distance.

Im not quite sure what you mean here. If you are telling him that simulating "pumping the brakes" will reduce his stopping distances, you are giving him faulty advice. It is however, correct that once the brakes have locked you will need to release some of the pressure to regain traction. All you can really do is either apply less force or apply the force more slowly.

 

[W3H5]

when you lock up, release the brakes and press them again, and continue this process. This should reduce your braking distance.

This is what ABS does, if you can master this technique then you will not have a need for ABS.

 

[GTP_FastM3]

This is what ABS does, if you can master this technique then you will not have a need for ABS.

ABS does it much faster than any human could. The best a human can do is to attempt threshold breaking and keep the brakes on the edge of locking

 

[alex997tt]

ABS is a modern car essential. I don't think turning it completely off makes you any faster, even with cadence braking. Sure, if you stick it on 10 then you won't brake as fast in a straight line, but setting ABS to 1 still let's you steer and brake at the same time to a minimal level and stops you locking up when braking in a straight line.

When you do real life driver training with professional race car drivers, they tell you to brake as much as you can in a straight line, then turn in (trail braking is another step up after this to get more grip to the front tyres). I've done loads of driver training days in my Porsche 911 and even when you turn off all the driver aids it still leaves ABS on!

I find ABS set to 10 for rally races really helps control the car and gets fast times.

 

[Hig-GT]

Tbh I would just like to master it on GT5 as I would like to drive without any aids at all.

I have been using threshhold braking so far, there are just a few corners I'm finding it difficult (that last section of Nurburgring as mentioned above) I understand what ABS does, and I do drive without ABS in real life, and I do think the wheels locking up is wrongly shown in the game as if I drive my car in GT5 I lock up, yet I never do in real life under firm/hard braking.

terribleluck I am using a wheel and on my F430 atm I have my brakes on 0/0 lol! I chose the Nurburgring as I know that track the best in GT5. My biggest problem is I liked to move the car around on the brakes, little extra push on the brakes just to help flick the car in, so obviously if I do that (if I am running wide) the wheels lock and I fly into the fence, so mainly I have to get out of my bad habits and become a smoother drivers (I do throw the car around) which should then solve it

Once I have mastered braking with 0/0 and I have got the braking technique right I shall move the balance up a bit and try tuning the suspension to aid some weight transfer aswell.

alex997tt - I'm not saying that you have to drive without ABS as it will definately be faster, I just want to be as good a driver on GT5 as I can, so I would like to be able to turn off ABS because there aren't many people online (I haven't seen any) that do drive without ABS, I just want to win one race online with no aids and I'll be happy

(I've just woke up, does all of that make sense? )

 

[JJ72]

ABS is a modern car essential. I don't think turning it completely off makes you any faster, even with cadence braking. Sure, if you stick it on 10 then you won't brake as fast in a straight line, but setting ABS to 1 still let's you steer and brake at the same time to a minimal level and stops you locking up when braking in a straight line.

When you do real life driver training with professional race car drivers, they tell you to brake as much as you can in a straight line, then turn in (trail braking is another step up after this to get more grip to the front tyres). I've done loads of driver training days in my Porsche 911 and even when you turn off all the driver aids it still leaves ABS on!

I find ABS set to 10 for rally races really helps control the car and gets fast times.

I disagree on several levels.

cadence braking isn't the most effective braking method, it's just a second best for driver who can't threshold brake, human can "out-brake" ABS at least match it on normal surface, snow and dirt is of course another matter.

Secondly the ability to just lock the brake while trial braking is very useful to help turn in on some cars, even with ABS on 1 I find the effect much less effective than with it on, or some combo it can be 2 to 3 tenths per lap a difference.

ABS being a essential on road cars is mostly a safety concern, since most drivers won't have the reserve to brake perfectly in a panic situation, but for track driving ABS is not really nesscary.

 

[Hig-GT]

Can I use the LSD to help adopt a bit of extra braking force on the rear? (Just like 0/1)

 

[JJ72]

LSD doesn't add braking force in any way.

I don't use ABS and is using 4/2 force for most modern cars, what pedals do you have?

 

[alex997tt]

I'm certainly not advocating cadence braking as a prefered method of fast lap times.

What I am trying to say is that most people should be faster with ABS on (to whatever degree) compared to with it off. Formula 1 banned ABS in the '90s as it was deemed a driver aid. Now braking is one of the trickiest skills an F1 driver has to master - but how many F1 races have you watched where nobody has locked up a wheel and put bald spots on their tyres? Removing ABS from F1 slowed down lap times but did make it more if a test of skill and thereby entertaining.

 

[alex997tt]

In saying all that. I think in GT5 that ABS is linked into ASM - which can certainly slow you down! So turning off ABS, in GT5 at least, should gain you some tenths.

 

[Hig-GT]

LSD doesn't add braking force in any way.

I don't use ABS and is using 4/2 force for most modern cars, what pedals do you have?

No I wasn't asking for the LSD to add braking force I was wondering whether I could use the LSD to control locking on the rear? (So I could have a click more brake bias on the rear)

And I am using a DFGT so I only have throttle & brake. I am driving manual aswell ... Leads me to another question, do I have to time my downshifts well when braking without ABS?

 

[JJ72]

that ban was because teams are using "ABS" to mimic differential braking (different brake force for left and right wheels) to help turning, FIA can't police that and hence banned ABS all together.

F1 drivers very rarely lockup, usually in practice when they are finding out the limit and in close battles, how often do you see button, nico rosberg or alonso lock up in a race? probably less than once per race.

the lack of ABS isn't a problem in WTCC, Super GT or FIA GT, so it really is just a matter of driver disciplining themselves.

 

[JJ72]

No I wasn't asking for the LSD to add braking force I was wondering whether I could use the LSD to control locking on the rear? (So I could have a click more brake bias on the rear)

And I am using a DFGT so I only have throttle & brake. I am driving manual aswell ... Leads me to another question, do I have to time my downshifts well when braking without ABS?

you shouldn't have the rear end locking up first ideally, set the front bias so that the front just locks up before the rear end does.

I don't see much help with messy with rear end LSD, since it will only help if both rear wheels were on different surface or you are already turning in, it will be counter productive if you have use a non ideal LSD setting just to keep the wheels from locking.

I don't find timing downshifts to be much of a matter, surely it feels smoothers when you time it properly, but I can't recall it disturbing the balance when I do it wrong.

 

[Faria0808]

TGTT*: Don't brake
---
I've did the Laguna Seca endurance with my FGT and no aids, just noticed that when you drive without ABS, fatigue is bigger than with ABS
---
With a few cars i can race without abs, but the bigger problem is the end of the straight... i just go straight...

Cheers, Faria

*Top Gear Top Tip

 

[arvore]

Tbh I would just like to master it on GT5 as I would like to drive without any aids at all.

👍

terribleluck I am using a wheel and on my F430 atm I have my brakes on 0/0 lol! I chose the Nurburgring as I know that track the best in GT5. My biggest problem is I liked to move the car around on the brakes, little extra push on the brakes just to help flick the car in, so obviously if I do that (if I am running wide) the wheels lock and I fly into the fence, so mainly I have to get out of my bad habits and become a smoother drivers (I do throw the car around) which should then solve it
Once I have mastered braking with 0/0 and I have got the braking technique right I shall move the balance up a bit and try tuning the suspension to aid some weight transfer aswell.

I usually use 1-0 breaking bias values,it can change from car to car(weight) and track conditions(wet),but another thing I found very useful was adjusting the LSD settings(specially the breaking sensitivity values)...than it's just a question of "knowing" the car behaviour in these conditions and adjust your driving accordingly...

alex997tt - I'm not saying that you have to drive without ABS as it will definately be faster, I just want to be as good a driver on GT5 as I can, so I would like to be able to turn off ABS because there aren't many people online (I haven't seen any) that do drive without ABS, I just want to win one race online with no aids and I'll be happy

(I've just woke up, does all of that make sense? )

A lot of sense...some of us try to master the game without any assists even if that isn't the fastest way...

About online...probably You won't find these settings in public lobbies but just check up the race specs for the Laguna Seca race we're running tonight:

TIME: Sunday, February 6th at 20:00 GMT

TRACK: Laguna Seca

WEATHER: Fixed, Sunny

DURATION: 30 laps ~ roughly 45 minutes of racing.

QUALIFYING: A 15 minute qualifying session will begin at PRECISELY 20:05 GMT. I hate to put everybody through this exercise but with a smaller track, I think it's reasonable. When the qualifying window opens, please take to the track and start your qualifying run. Please check your setups BEFORE you enter the lobby. If anybody goes back to the pits it's going to screw things for everybody. When you're satisfied with your qualifying lap, find a safe place OFF the track to park and stay there.

PITSTOPS: Pitstops are not required but I don't think anybody's tires can last the full 30 laps.

CAR: Any Nascar of your choosing. Some already have theirs picked out. You can do an oil change and make any setup changes to the aerodynamics or suspension you wish. But that's it.

TIRES: Racing Hard

AIDS: None (no racing line, traction control, anti-slip control, steering assist OR ABS). I can not enforce the use of ABS but I would ask everybody to please turn it off on your own in order to create a fair and level playing field. Please let me know if you need tips or are having trouble adjusting to driving without ABS.
PENALITES: Extreme. Be careful cutting corners!

GRID: Early start penalty ON. You must hit the brakes until the countdown timer stops and the race starts. False starts (letting go for the brake early) will result in a time penalty!

SETUP RESTRICTIONS: NONE! You can make ANY changes to the suspension you wish (ride height, camber, toe, springs, dampeners, brake bias, etc) but you can not add any additional parts to the cars.

DAMAGE: Low. If you do damage to your car your pace will be limited for ten or 15 seconds and the car will 'magically' repair itself. I honestly would prefer full damage. In principle. But it just doesn't seem to work very well. And with a full field of VERY powerful racing cars that don't handle particularly well, I think minimal damage is a better option.

 

[Faria0808]

👍
About online...probably You won't find these settings in public lobbies but just check up the race specs for the Laguna Seca race we're running tonight:

I was just reading...

30 laps = 45min

Man, never noticed, but im fast... i do it easly in 28min

 

[JJ72]

btw have you tried putting some foam or half a squash ball under the brake pedal? without some decent resistance it is very hard to judge your braking force effectively.

 

[Robidine Swedan]

same thing use to happen to me, at that speed breaking hard will cause lock up no matter, so i just simply started doin what abs does anyway, and break to a spead level were you can break hard. Smooth is fast

 

[Faria0808]

If you watch one of @Christhedude videos on YouTube, he said with the Clubsport pedals
you can really fell when your tire is locking...

Dang, my G27 don't have this...

Here is his YouTube acc YouTube.com/christheimperator

 

[arvore]

I was just reading...

30 laps = 45min

Man, never noticed, but im fast... i do it easly in 28min

And Modest...


But I'm curious what is your average lap time around Laguna Seca with a stock NASCAR with every assist off online tyre wear,and slip zones set to real?

 

[Faria0808]

And Modest...


But I'm curious what is your average lap time around Laguna Seca with a stock NASCAR with every assist off online tyre wear,and slip zones set to real?

Thats impossible, NASCARs can't turn right lololol
---
I don't have any idea... but it's a good time

Anyway, whats your WRS position ?

 

[arvore]

Thats impossible, NASCARs can't turn left lololol

So you're just bragging right?
---

I don't have any idea... but it's a good time

Sure it is...

Anyway, whats you WRS position ?

If you mean the GTP registry I didn't do it ,I won't have the time to run WRS anyway...but in this social group we run are other drivers better placed than you,if You feel that is important.
Either way I posted on the thread to help the OP with some tips on driving without ABS and not for Ego checks or boosts.

 

[Faria0808]

So you're just bragging right?
---


Sure it is...



If you mean the GTP registry I didn't do it ,I won't have the time to run WRS anyway...but in this social group we run are other drivers better placed than you,if You feel that is important.
Either way I posted on the thread to help the OP with some tips on driving without ABS and not for Ego checks or boosts.

OK, amigo

I'm not going to turn on my PS right now, i've been playing GTA IV during 10h , but if i do a lap, i'll PM

 

[Faria0808]

OK, i'm just putting this threat back to his origins, after a confersa com um amigo

Basically, I've just started driving without ABS, so thats no driver aids at all ... and so far I seem to be picking it up, granted it has taken 12 laps of the Nurburgring to start to get there but regardless I'm getting somewhere lol!

However I really need some help! You know the big long straight right at the end, you go down the hill and into that slow little complex where the pit entry is, I can't get my braking right for that area at all, locking up every time and smacking the barriers! Any advice?

Oh! And if someone could do me a big favour and lap there Ferrari F430 (standard barring LSD) around the Nurburgring and give me their best time that would be great (You can use ABS and any other aids barring SRF lol!) just to give me an idea of what times everyone else is doing, best I have run so far is a 7:02.443 (I ask for someone else to run this as I don't want to switch ABS back on as I'll pick up bad habits again lol! I know my F430 Scuderia did the Nurb in 6.40 so I'm hoping my standard F430 is a lot slower than that! )

Thanks

 

[Hig-GT]

Thanks lol

Tbh I quite like the feel of both pedals so I don't think I need to put anything behind them ... The brake pedal seems just right for me.

So I've done a couple of more laps, the Ferrari F430 has been sidelined for now, I took out my favourite car, the Castrol TOM's Supra and I am still quick with that, I was having trouble locking a wheel in that lol (I guess it is designed to be driven without ABS though with it being a the Japanese Racing Car (whatever the championship is called lol! ))

Anyway I put that away and figured I'd give myself a real challenge as I learn best that way... Corvette ZR-1 C6 RM fully tuned And it is going well, brake bias atm is 2 front & 0 rear. The only problem I am having atm is that I keep locking the rear in very slow corners, anything that is a second gear corner I'm generally locking the rear up, now I have been trying slightly different lines and I've noticed that if I turn in a little bit later (big gap between coming off of the brakes and turning) then I'm alright ... I guess I just have to get out of the habit of turning and braking which I learnt from having ABS set to 10.

Anyway, other than the second gear corners that I'm sometimes having trouble with, I'm starting to get there, the fastest time I have ever done around the Nurburgring in my ZR1 is a 6.06 (Not my cleanest ever lap lol! But that was with everything off except for ABS being on 10) And now with everything off I have just run a 6.09.395 ... Is that quick for no aids does anyone know? Or do I still have some work to do? It could be faster, as said I locked up twice and ran wide on one corner dealing with another lock up lol )

Thanks for all the advice so far ... It seemed to follow the path of what I was doing but it is good to know I'm on the right track

Btw for anyone who is wondering ... I'm finding that the best way to brake (for me anyway) is to just apply the brakes (in a straight line) in just one smooth movement. For some corners, such as the one where you have a jump in the middle of the braking zone, brake before the jump and then brake after the jump, leave the brakes off while you are slightly airborn. Threshhold braking is also useful in some corners, the F430 was very receptive to that technique ... Trial & Error atm

Keep the ideas coming though!

 

[Hig-GT]

Woo ... Just ran a 6.05.541 with plenty of mistakes, maybe this could work :-D

 

[Sohvakettu]

In my experience ABS on is faster in GT5 than off. Even if it slows the car slower it makes braking in to the corners easier and improves general stability under braking.

About driving with ABS off i would say that smoothness is the key like it has been said already. Actually smoothness is the key to being fast in general so trying to learn to drive without ABS might be worthwhile for that reason alone and not just because of bragging rights. I personally learned by taking ABS off in the beginning from all the cars i drove but now i only take it off from cars that don't have it in RL (almost every race car) and keep the ABS on for cars that do have it. While i can't claim to be really fast i think it has helped me to improve as a (sim)driver nevertheless.