DTM Round 9 - 8th October To Submit Times

  • Thread starter Thread starter GM
  • 60 comments
  • 2,685 views
I told george, it was just a random lap for qual. i didnt even use super soft or anything. he was pressuring me to get the times in
 
CCX
I told george, it was just a random lap for qual. i didnt even use super soft or anything. he was pressuring me to get the times in
Click to expand...

1. I wasn't presuuring you, I asked you once on Msn.

2. You NEED to use RSS in qualification.
 
It just seems very odd that your Quali is so much slower then your main race laps, come on 7 seconds a lap faster for 12 laps, tires don't make that much difference? To be honest I question your main race times. We've had several times in this series that just don't make any sense, which casts a bad light on the series. This is nothing personal but the integrity of the series is in jeopardy, especially submitting times after everyone else's times are posted.

I DQ'd myself one week cause my HP was off by 1%, nobody would have noticed, but I didn't follow the rules so I DQ'd myself. Either you stand by your original times (typo or not) and submit proof or you DQ yourself. Anyone can submit times when they see every other time, it's just not done if the series is to have any validity. This is the only series I've ever seen that allows such a practice and it will suffer if it continues. Myself and a few others that spend alot of time on our series racing are not going to stay in a series where accountability is absent. Just my 2 cents, but I am becoming tired of this happening regularly.
 
Yeah I have to agree with Drew.

A single digit typo, that is spotted and corrected straight away, is acceptable. God knows none of us are perfect.

I did that last week, a 14 min instead of the actual 15 min (I think), but both of your times were corrected, after the fact, and they weren't single, neighbouring, digit errors 4/5,8/9 etc.
They were both completely different times, in minutes,seconds and fractions.

As to your quali lap being rushed, not on the right tyres, maybe only a 3-5 lap stint. Fair enough! It happens!
But.......
A 7.odd second per lap difference is hard to comprehend.

The tyres default to HARD's in both option screens when you go into either a time-trial or a single race.
To get through the race with only one pitstop you should have been running a minimum of medium fronts.
As you go up the grades in tyre compounds there is a difference between each grade of 1.6-2 ish seconds per grade. So that being said, you would have to be running on SUPER-SOFTS to get a decrease in laptime of 6 seconds per lap. And with tyre-wear set to STRONG they would last a max of 3 laps before they were toast!
This being a 12 lap race means you would have to pit twice even if you struggled round an extra lap to get 4.

None of this takes into account how you dealt with the AI, how fast you got round them, or how aggressive you were in getting past them either.

Just based on my knowledge of tyres and such, your times don't make sense.
And I am suspicious of both your times being 'completely' corrected after the results had been posted.

My $0.02 worth!

Tyre-king
 
👍 Got to agree with you there Andy

:grumpy: The time window-is just that - no time by the end, means no time !
I've had a week where I was late- zero points.

Both you and Neil DQ'd yourselves in the past because of things that were wrong with your runs.

I was trying to figure out how I beat the pants off his qual run and get crushed at the race by 8 seconds :odd:

Yes, this has been a constant of the series, and one that I'm not happy with. This isn't a "large" series in the number of drivers and has the chance of dropping a few more if this continues. Why bother ?

If a replay can't be submitted or reviewed on questionable submissions, how about splits for the laps run ? ... or take the higher road, and just withdraw the time for the week.

34 weeks of this ?

J.R.
 
Got to agree with you all there, in many of these Race Rounds, there have been typos, some drivers have admitted to it (thank you), some drivers have used wrong power setting and told me to DQ them (thank you), and some, one doing this more than once, has given me a 'crap' qualification time, and then given me a race winning race time. CCX, just a quick lap, which I spent no time on is no excuse for a 1'42 lap time, not even a 1'32 which you later PM me, I'm fed up of this (not to the ones that admitted your mistakes), I thought this series would go well, but some drivers are almost taking the piss, I really hope, that we can get this sorted out very soon, and then everyone can have a fun last two thirds of season one, and an even funner season two.


George.
 
The simple solution, that won't please everyone (including myself, but only cos it's a PITA to transfer them) is to require replays to be posted for ALL submissions!

However, I know that that is not what you wanted, George.

So, I would suggest that you rely on your own driver's to spot the inconsistancies, highlight them, and then Drew and myself can to do what we do, and either verify or villify any 'suspect' times through the judicious use of the Dark-side (namely the calculator, and some good old fashioned common sense)

* Any such suspicious times should be subject to either a damn good explanation (including splits, tyres,pits etc), a replay submission, or a voluntary DQ from the driver himself!

* Typo's, should only be accepted if they are obviously a 'single-digit' or 'adjacent-digit'.
Also, only if the driver himself acknowledges the error, and corrects it within the first hour after results posting should they be accepted. Outside the first hour, a DQ should be issued!

Otherwise a forced DQ from you, with a ban for recidavistic offenders!

Tough love!

Neil
 
But not everyone has a Max Drive, I know that you do Neil, and Drew and Andy, I have one aswell.
 
you might as well toss me in that group
RSR driver
 
George Morley
But not everyone has a Max Drive, I know that you do Neil, and Drew and Andy, I have one aswell.
Click to expand...

Personally, I would like to see the posting of replays by everyone. But as you said George, not everyone has a maxdrive, so it isn't practical to ask for one off all racers.

I think the only thing we can do is keep a weather eye on the results.
And be honest enough with each other to admit our 'errors'.

As I said above, typo's should only be accepted if they are single digit/neighbouring digit errors. That is what a typo is!
They do happen, we all probably have done them from time to time, I know I have.

CCX's complete re-working of his results should not have been.
How can he say it was a typo, when both his quali & race times were completely different than the one's he originally gave?
They weren't typos, they were either times from different races, or made up.

Is he running the same car, same track, same number of laps in another series? Possible, but not probable!
Or did he give the times for an earlier set of runs? Again possible, but not probable!
Even if he did do that, why would he submit his slower quali time with his faster race time, and then the reverse in the correction? Surely one of the first times would have been the right one?

So the question begs..........
What did happen?

Did he not run at all, and made his results up? Then realised that he had made them too outlandish to be believed. I hope not!
Did he run once, but made loads of mistakes, realised his times weren't up to scratch and deducted some time from what he actually got? Again, I hope not!
Did he just make a half-arsed attempt at the quali, and then a descent attempt at the race? That's what he said happened, but if that is so........

Why didn't he re-do the quali lap when he realised he could have driven faster?
It would have taken no time at all, maybe 5 minutes, and none of this would have happened.

A simple post stating he had submitted the wrong times to George, an appology, and an explanation would have sufficed.
I did it, Drew did it, J.R. has done it.
We all make mistakes, we are all human (mostly!)
But no post came forth, no admission of the mistake, no explanation.

If he wants to be respected and believed, then he should have shown us the same respect back!
Errors of judgement like this will always be discovered, there are too many experienced drivers on this forum, this site, for them not to be.

Neil
 
Balls has right.Next time he will win a race everyone of us will be sceptic and will think "Oh God,not again".
Personally I feel like this:I put a lot of time and energy into the races to try to win them.I try out every possible method to build one close to the perfect lap and then a good race.I mean every possible AND regular to be fast.And then somebody comes out from the darkness,from nowhere and takes my pleasure of racing with his stupidity.I can't tell him "Hey guy,get the f#*k back where you belong",so yesterday I thought that I take my bags and go away.It was not the first time I was thinking about leaving but I gave my word to oldphart - exactly twice - to be his partner until the end.
That's the only reason why I stayed...
You should be much more draconian,George.As you said "if any suspicious,I will take care for it".
So let it be done.
 
Hey P ?
Let's put it this way
JGTC S3 is coming up... the Le Mans is about to start
and I'm half way out the door because of this repeating problem.

The only reason I haven't left, is because I didn't want to leave you hanging.

You want to bail ? I got no problem with it 👍
 
George, it looks like we're reaching critical mass. I'll suggest something that may hold off a mass bail.
First DQ CCS and take away his points from last race.Since he hasn't even come to plead his case speaks volumns. Also let him know that any excursions from the truth from any driver will be an immediate ban from the series.

Second, racefan has not offered information concerning race 4 at the Test Track. His sub 8 minute run is impossible with the AI set to -2. Both Neil and myself have asked for his explaination and he has not come forth to plead his case. His points taken and the same warning as to CCX.

Like Neil has pointed out, if your times fall into the catagory of possible, then no problem,( until this series I don't think Neil and I have ever questioned anyones times) but when there are times that fall into the impossible catagory we're gonna notice and question that time. Usually it's simply a matter of an incorrect setting ie: lap number, AI setting and so on, but if the driver in question doesn't answer the questions asked of him then something else is going on.

George, it's up to you to keep everyone accountable. Do not accept late submissions, if there is an error with a submission then you DQ the driver. If a driver is resposible enough to take part in a series, then he should be resposible enough to type his times correctly and on time.

There's certainly no shame on being DQ'd for honest mistakes, but unrealistic time submissions with no explaination is a whole different matter. These series run mostly on honesty and trust, when you lose one or both you lose the series..period. You can keep this going George but you're gonna have to take charge and let us all know you're in command. Don't be shy, we want a strong but fair leader.
 
From Andy:
Usually it's simply a matter of an incorrect setting ie: lap number, AI setting and so on, but if the driver in question doesn't answer the questions asked of him then something else is going on.

I totally agree with you Andy.Sometimes the silence tells the truth.
No explanation,no coming back,nothing at all.Why?
I think everybody knows the probable answer to this question.
 
Drew22
George, it looks like we're reaching critical mass.
Click to expand...
Yup!

Drew22
Like Neil has pointed out, if your times fall into the catagory of possible, then no problem,( until this series I don't think Neil and I have ever questioned anyones times) but when there are times that fall into the impossible catagory we're gonna notice and question that time. Usually it's simply a matter of an incorrect setting ie: lap number, AI setting and so on, but if the driver in question doesn't answer the questions asked of him then something else is going on.
Click to expand...
Agreed!

Drew22
George, it's up to you to keep everyone accountable. Do not accept late submissions, if there is an error with a submission then you DQ the driver. If a driver is resposible enough to take part in a series, then he should be resposible enough to type his times correctly and on time.
Click to expand...
Definately! Although single digit typo's, do happen. And are a fact of life when dealing with keyboards, so maybe not a DQ for that if it is corrected ASAP.

Drew22
There's certainly no shame on being DQ'd for honest mistakes, but unrealistic time submissions with no explaination is a whole different matter. These series run mostly on honesty and trust, when you lose one or both you lose the series..period. You can keep this going George but you're gonna have to take charge and let us all know you're in command. Don't be shy, we want a strong but fair leader.
Click to expand...
Amen!

This series will either float or sink by how strong, fair and consistant you are George.
It's a good series, a fantastic idea, you just need to take it by the scruff of the neck.
Also it would help if you changed the round number in the top line of the week's thread! It would be more professional looking. It still says "Yes, it's here, the 34 race DTM tournament, this thread will contain everything you need to know about round 3." even in week 9's thread. (sorry, nit-picking)

Neil
 
Just thought i'd let you guys know (incase you didnt check my sig) that I too have a Max Drive and am more than happy to post replays of any of my times if needed 👍:)
 
east
Just thought i'd let you guys know (incase you didnt check my sig) that I too have a Max Drive and am more than happy to post replays of any of my times if needed 👍:)
Click to expand...

Yeah east, most of us do have replay capability, and most of us have never needed to use them to prove our times, but the fact that we have them and can provide proof makes the other drivers more trusting of our submissions.Actually I did have to submit a replay awhile back and quickly went out and got a Maxdrive to save my reputation and face.

In most every series a driver or two (usually fairly new to GTP) submits outrageous times only to be confronted by the obvious. At that point they either give a million excuses as to why they can't prove their times (my dog ate the PS2) or they simply don't respond and dissapear . We're always gonna get the transients, but by far most the drivers here are honest. But having very explicit rules and tight regulations helps greatly in keeping the transients from even signing up and if they do and submit bogus times they are quickly ferreted out by regulars that know what can and can't be achieved and to an extent by who. But I have a good feeling we're not going to have any more "incidents" in this series.

Hey east, find the Replay Supported Racers thread and submit a replay so you'll be on public record as a driver willing and capable of supplying replays. I think Kent from the WRS started it, I'll try and find it for you. It's always comforting to see "Replay Supported Racer" in a drivers sig.
 
I posted a Replay in the Replay Supported Racers thread a couple weeks ago now, I dont think Kent is updateing that thread anymore.
 
Well as long as you submitted it, that's the only requirement. To show you have the capability and knowledge to supply a replay. Put it in your sig east, you've met the requirements. Kent may not update for months. The serious drivers look for that in a sig, lets them know you're serious.
 
OK, done! Checkout my Sig :sly:
 
ok, i will answer any questions, if you have them, now is the time to ask
 
We have been asking questions all week mate!
And you have ignored them!
ALL of them! Then you pop up on-line and act all innocent like!

Why the hell should we, the ones who always play by the rules, be asking you questions, at your beck-and-call?

You should be explaining yourself to us!

Not the other way round!

Show us the respect we deserve, and either explain your times to our satisfaction, or bugger off!

Neil
 
👍 Well said Mate :)

Ok, times sent

I'll beg forgiveness from my partner here and now. He knows the trouble I've had the past few days with my roommate being on the machine :grumpy: giving me no time to spend this week on the track. Sorry P.... I'm working on the solution. It's just gonna cost me another $130 bucks that I don't have :(

J.R.
p.s. Just about had enough of this crap here ! .... yes I mean you that choose to make up times and submit them, as if we wouldn't do the math ? PLEASE !
 
Actually George should be stepping in and dealing with the situation ( I'm not discounting Neil and J.R.'s comments). I mean it is your series George, did you not hear our suggestions about taking control? It's time to step up and reset the course of this series.
 
Dreww22
Actually George should be stepping in and dealing with the situation ( I'm not discounting Neil and J.R.'s comments). I mean it is your series George, did you not hear our suggestions about taking control? It's time to step up and reset the course of this series.
Click to expand...
I dont think George cares anymore sadly. Have you and Balls ever thought of making your own series? I bet you two could make something great.
 
east
I dont think George cares anymore sadly. Have you and Balls ever thought of making your own series? I bet you two could make something great.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that sort of comment acctully makes me want to stop.

Results up soon, maybe for the last time.
 
I don't want to take anyone's pleasure here but until you are thinking like this,George,this is the only and right way.
Any job - included entertaining people here in DTM - involves many responsibilities.It seems that you can't bear it any longer.
I am really sorry.
 
Well George , if you would have made some sort of decision concerning last weeks debacle, drivers would have a bit more faith in ya. Many of us submitted suggestions and advice and you took absolutly no action whatsoever. What were you expecting, that we'd all just forget and go on to the next race? None of us serious drivers are gonna spend alot of time running if the results are bogus and nobody is steering the ship. We don't know what else to tell you, but even if we did your inaction from our previous comments and suggestions, makes us not wanting to spend any more time trying to save this series. We left the ball in your court and you went home!

East's comment shows that drivers want a leader, it's not a popularity contest, you may anger a few drivers by being a hard arse but the rest of us want and need a strict environment to race in. We've been telling you this from the beginning, but you have ignored our concerns and so goes the series.
 
Ok, your last few comments have proved it, I tried, it went well at first, but then it flopped, I'm throwing in the towel at this.

So we reached Round 10, don't expect a Season 2 anytime this year or next.

Thanks everyone (exept two inpaticular posting false times) for making it work up until now.
 
It didn't have to end this way George, you're a really nice guy (which may be part of the problem) and you don't want to hurt peoples feelings. I know just how you feel, that's one reason I don't run a series, I hate being the heavy, but unfortunatly every series needs someone to put his foot down and DQ or ban drivers when appropiate. Sorry you're throwing in the towel, cause a few well thought out strongly worded posts from you this week could have made all the difference.

Lastly let me tell you that none of us harbor any ill feelings towards you George, you're a nice guy and a great driver and we wish it would have turned out different. Not many of us are cut out to be series leaders, I know I'm not, it's generally a thankless job with lots of work that goes unappreciated. Hope I get to race with you in the future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back