DTM Tournament Round 2 - You Have Until August 27th To Submit Your Times

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George,have you received my PM?I send it from my mobile and I'm not sure about it...
 
I recived two GTX :lol:.
 
Times sent to George!

Actually managed to get RSS rears to last 4 laps!:crazy:

Ran this race 6 or 7 times today, all within .5 of a second of each other. Some had very slight wall touches in the second tunnel, one had a wicked tank-slapper on the start/finish straight.

The one I sent to George, I got into first place at the corner after T1 and lapped all except second place, who was only 50 yds infront at the line.

Quite enjoyed it, very challenging on a tight,twisty track.

Neil
 
My times are in 👍 The only strategy I tried that didnt work was a two stopper on R5s which was about 10 seconds slower, but all other strategies gave more or less the same time, I did come up with one that was about 3 seconds faster than the others, but then none of my runs were perfect. Probably could have got another 5 - 6 seconds off my race time if I put the mobile chicanes on R1s instead of R5s.
 
I didn't try different tyres on the AI, always ran them on RSS. Kept them out of the way!

Once past them by just after T1/L1, I passed all but 2nd & 3rd when they pitted on L6. Getting past 3rd on the last lap was easy enough at T2, and didn't quite catch 2nd. Mind you his car was similarly powered but only 980Kg, so he was fast in a straight line.

Neil
 
Times sent in.

:O

V 👍 V
 
Got them SuperT.
 
School's got me this week. :irked: Bastards. Sorry, east. :(

Cheers,
Jetboy
 
Its all good, think you can make the next race?
 
time sent... not nearly quick enough... and now the ps2 is acting up :(

J.R.
 
Ok, it's deadline today, results up very shortly in post 1.
 
I am REALLY sorry about this George, but I think we have either a cheater in our midst, or a serious typo going on!

TS qualified 5.405 seconds SLOWER than Darren, 5.605 seconds SLOWER than Andy and 5.957 seconds SLOWER than me!

In the same car, with the same tyres!

In the race he averaged...
3.788 seconds per lap FASTER than Darren, 3.224 seconds per lap FASTER the Andy and 3.048 seconds per lap FASTER than me!

There is something COMPLETELY screwy going on with that time he has given you!

No joke!

In the JGTC I qualified last (1.467 second down), only to win the race! But I did it by less than the margin he did, over 47 laps!
0.111 seconds per lap faster than second place(who drives the same car), who also happens to be my partner in the DTM (Andy) and someone who I and many, many others trust completely! (plus we have to supply replays to support our times, and they were checked out thoroughly by other trusted and reputable racers)

and

2.249 seconds a lap faster than the last place finisher, who is part-time and only did the race once(and drives a different car). Where as I did it 5 or six times.

I say again, There is something wrong here! If I am the only one to think so, I will appologies profusely. But in all honesty, I don't think I am!

Again, I am sorry about this, but I have the right to my opinion, and this is it!

By the way, a copy of this PM is going to be posted in the thread.

I don't think anyone will think that I am out of order, I am just expressing my concernes.

Perhaps a replay for 'public' verification should be provided? Or at the very least a photo of the results screen should be posted!

Call me a cynic, but well over a years experience has given me a 'spider-sense' about these things.

Neil
 
Ballstothewall
I am REALLY sorry about this George, but I think we have either a cheater in our midst, or a serious typo going on!

TS qualified 5.405 seconds SLOWER than Darren, 5.605 seconds SLOWER than Andy and 5.957 seconds SLOWER than me!

In the same car, with the same tyres!

In the race he averaged...
3.788 seconds per lap FASTER than Darren, 3.224 seconds per lap FASTER the Andy and 3.048 seconds per lap FASTER than me!

There is something COMPLETELY screwy going on with that time he has given you!

No joke!
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention I had a little "off" in qualifying.
 
TS
I forgot to mention I had a little "off" in qualifying.
Click to expand...

In that case, then your qualifying lap was not legal or valid!

You have to realise you are playing with some of the fastest and most dedicated racer's of the GT4-type in the world, and as such, we don't like to be pi$$ed around!
You are young (15, by your profile), and maybe don't realise how seriously we ALL take this!

The rules stated are "WRS legal!" ie:

2 wheels on track at all times! (Rumble strips are part of the track)

Which means that ANY off, of 3 or more wheels off the track(including rumblestrips), or a wall touch, means that you lap isn't legal or admissable as a qualifying lap.
And, if you go off-track during the race portion you HAVE to ADD 2 seconds to your submitted time (for each indiscression) BEFORE you send the PM to George!
That means if you get a final race time of 11'26.566 (for example), but have ventured off the reservation six times, then you need to ADD 12 seconds to your submitted time.

Also and most importantly!

That does not explain how you managed to be over 3 seconds faster a lap (on average) than the rest of the guys using the same car as you! Especially if you were using MEDIUM tyres as you stated in your post, when we (or at least I) were using softs!

There is no way you could have made mediums last 9 laps around this track, and I know, I am the king of tyre preservation in the JGTC.
I know that sounds like B.S.!
But only Daan has the powers to preserve tyres longer than I, and I have that on VERY good authority from many shared replays with other long-standing and respected drivers.

In the JGTC series I can make tyres last longer than anyone, and even East in this series, this thread, was shocked by the number of laps I was getting out of softs, which was 5. Add 2 laps for the extra compound, comes to 7, not 9!

Prove your time with a replay, and I will believe it!

Otherwise?


Neil
 
I'll toss my thoughts in here...

I know balls, and Drew.... Neil and Andy .... from JGTC ... and he is speaking the truth about his tire wear. I'm lucky to get as many laps as he does, though not as fast most times. It's something I have to work on, getting the wear to match his. I too did a 5 and 4 on RS's, though I was a hell of a lot slower. If he's got some ?'s about the results, they were given serious thought before he brought them to light here.
 
TS, do you have a replay? You won the race by a pretty big margin.
 
Hey George, great time, what tyres did you use? I used Mediums off the line, pitted on lap 5 and used Softs to finish off the race.
 
I used softs the whole race, pitted once.
 
I used the same tyre strategy as east, starting on mediums and changed to softs for the final four laps.

Twelve seconds slower though..:O
 
If you guys want, I'll re-run the race to end this controversy surronding me.
 
TS, the only way I can see you getting a time like that is if you did 9 laps on mediums without pitting, judging by what Ballstothewall said, that is more or less impossible, unless you have Tyre Wear set to Mild by mistake?
 
I think thats what has happened, tyre wear was on mild, because a pit stop takes around 30 seconds, which if added onto his time it'll match the others.

TS, re running it seems a good idea, set tyre wear to strong though.
 
George, can I make another suggestion?

Make it mandatory to do a pit-stop! 2 wheels to be changed minimum!

Just like in all the RL touring car series.

You can keep a set of tyres during a pit-stop by selecting 'keep current' in the tyre selection dialogue of the pitting options screen.
So if you put hards on the rear at the start of a race, and softs on the front. You can change only the front tyres in the pit-stop, that is if you were crazy enough to make that tyre choice from the start of course! :lol:

Neil

EDIT

Also I have been putting in some serious noodle-time on the problems of TS's race time.

The though occured that,

If he did the race on mediums and the tyres went off at lap 6 (He said that in his post HERE) then I think he did have the tyre wear setting on strong, but, then did not pit and did the last 3 laps on buggered tyres!

As he didn't/hasn't given any indication of how he ran the race, it is possible that this is how he did it.
It's something that 'we' (as in the more seasoned racers) wouldn't even think about doing.
You wouldn't do it in RL, we wouldn't do it in GT4!

If that is indeed how he ran it, and he re-runs the race and gives a replay, then I would accept it (but still think he was crazy:D )

Doing the mandatory pit-stop rule change would solve the potential for this happening again.

I for one would not be happy about being forced into running the later part of a race on buggered tyres, just to keep up, it's not how it is done IMHO!

Neil
 
I was thinking of that Neil, but I'll put that rule into action for Round 4.
 
Ballstothewall
George, can I make another suggestion?

Make it mandatory to do a pit-stop! 2 wheels to be changed minimum!

Just like in all the RL touring car series.

You can keep a set of tyres during a pit-stop by selecting 'keep current' in the tyre selection dialogue of the pitting options screen.
So if you put hards on the rear at the start of a race, and softs on the front. You can change only the front tyres in the pit-stop, that is if you were crazy enough to make that tyre choice from the start of course! :lol:

Neil

EDIT

Also I have been putting in some serious noodle-time on the problems of TS's race time.

The though occured that,

If he did the race on mediums and the tyres went off at lap 6 (He said that in his post HERE) then I think he did have the tyre wear setting on strong, but, then did not pit and did the last 3 laps on buggered tyres!

As he didn't/hasn't given any indication of how he ran the race, it is possible that this is how he did it.
It's something that 'we' (as in the more seasoned racers) wouldn't even think about doing.
You wouldn't do it in RL, we wouldn't do it in GT4!

If that is indeed how he ran it, and he re-runs the race and gives a replay, then I would accept it (but still think he was crazy:D )

Doing the mandatory pit-stop rule change would solve the potential for this happening again.

I for one would not be happy about being forced into running the later part of a race on buggered tyres, just to keep up, it's not how it is done IMHO!

Neil
Click to expand...

Though that takes tyre stratgies out becuase we have to pit so we have to make halfway on 1 set thats it that can be reached on everything except supersofts(depending on driver/track) If thats his stratagy and it worked he should be allowed to use it. It adds to the stratagy of running a race do i use? "mediums not pit and run on worn out tires? or softs and pit wich is faster?" thats a question you should ave to ask yourself before a race
 
racefan88501
Though that takes tyre stratgies out becuase we have to pit so we have to make halfway on 1 set thats it that can be reached on everything except supersofts(depending on driver/track) If thats his stratagy and it worked he should be allowed to use it. It adds to the stratagy of running a race do i use? "mediums not pit and run on worn out tires? or softs and pit wich is faster?" thats a question you should ave to ask yourself before a race
Click to expand...

Trust me! that goes through all of our heads before/during and after a race.
And tyre-wear is an individual thing! It depends on the driver, the car used, the track, how hard you push, all of that!
Some people can make softs last that one extra lap by not pushing so hard at certain points of each track, others can't.

You can't over-simplify things by saying a forced pit means that everyone will end up using softs to get halfway, and then pit onto a fresh set of softs. That just won't happen.
Take for example this weeks race at midfield, it's 11 laps long! It's a hard track on tyres, as it has some very fast corners that will just eat soft front tyres for breakfast, but soft rears will last longer. Medium fronts should last 5-6 hot laps, or 7-8 medium paced laps.
You could do 5 or 6 and the 6 or 5 laps, or you could do 7-8 on mediums and then switch to softs, or any combination you like!

So there is still plenty of strategy to be had!

But to run the last 1/2-1/3 of a race on completely ruined tyres, is unthinkable!

Maybe, 'we' (that is, those of us that have been doing this for a long time) have become so indoctrinated into being faithfull to the principle of mirroring RL racing, that we can't/don't/won't see that as a viable option because it wouldn't be done in RL?
PD should have included blow-outs in GT4, other games have them even as far back as TOCA II

I don't know? We'll just have to see how things pan-out!

Neil
 
Neil and I at times question each other about the "Spirit" of the rules, in fact once just last week for this series.When we question a rule that may have a loophole or is ambigious , we try looking past the letter of the rule and make decisions based on the spirit of the rule..the ethical, not legal aspects of the rule. If you do that you know that you are competing fairly.
So while running on reds for 5 laps may be technically legal, it violates the spirit of the race.

Just my 2 cents on the situation. And Neil.. AKA "Tire King" gets more mileage out of a pair of tires than my mother who blazes around corners at speeds approaching double digits!!
 
I'll re-run it tonight and I'll publicly post my times so that there is no speculation. Just to make sure I have the rules correct I'll go through a quick run-down. Qualifying, Time Trial mode, any setup changes you want are legal, Race, Single Race, AI set to -2, 9 laps @ Trial Mountain Normal and Tire Wear is set to strong.
 
The Rules

Quali
Any tyres
Any top-speed
WRS rules for cleanliness(2 wheels on track at all times, no wall contact)
No cheating, nothing against the spirit of the rules

Race
9 laps
Any tyres
Any top-speed
AI set to -2
Forced pit-stop for excessive contact
WRS rules for cleanliness, except for AI contact which is taken care of by the forced pit-stop setting
No forced pit-stops allowed
No cheating, nothing against the spirit of the rules

Add 2 seconds to submitted time for every off/wall contact

That it! Good luck!

Neil
 
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