Dual motor cars

  • Thread starter Thread starter BradKinder
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Brabham also did in the late 70's in F1 with the same result = banned.

And Red Bull/Kaz in the X2010 also use fan(s) for downforce (though not sure how they are supposedly powered), hence all the shredded grass you see flying into the air even when you aren't moving (too bad they didn't add this effect to the 2J). I seem to remember in the little video Adrian Newey mentions the Chapparal.

I still think the X2010 would have been a lot cooler if it was driven by turbines though, as it was originally planned :(
 
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Idea for a Race Modified VW Golf 1 GTi in Gran Turismo - http://www.cartorque.co.za/0118.htm

Specs:
Body-shell: Mk1 Golf 1,6
Engines. Two by 16-valve Golf engines, two-litre front, 1,8-litre rear. Both turbocharged and fitted with Nitrous Oxide injection
Power (estimated) 600 kW-plus
Transmission: Each engine uses modified Golf front-wheel-drive transmission in unitary construction with the engine
0-100 km/h: under four seconds (estimated)
Top Speed: 280 km/h plus
Fuel consumption: 30 litres/100 km (estimated)
1/4mile: 10.740s
 
Thats a more complex way of saying what I've just said, gold star coming your way!

And besides, the VR6 bit is a VW trademark, what happens if someone like Ford creates a W12? What then? Its not a VR6 derivative....

Not really. They're staggered cylinder engines; V6s aren't.
 
I still think the X2010 would have been a lot cooler if it was driven by turbines though, as it was originally planned :(

The problem with turbine engines is that they take a while to rev up.

That is why when they are used in boats and trains, its almost always to power a generator that will produce power for electrical engines, and not to drive the wheels directly.
 
And besides, the VR6 bit is a VW trademark, what happens if someone like Ford creates a W12? What then? Its not a VR6 derivative....
A VR6 and a V6 aren't the same thing. You can't make a W-anything motor without a VR-style block design, and Volkswagen is the only company who makes one.
 
A VR6 and a V6 aren't the same thing. You can't make a W-anything motor without a VR-style block design, and Volkswagen is the only company who makes one.

Not entirely true...

Calling VW's "W layout" engines isn't entirely accurate either, they just kinda call them that. The VR6 looks no different from the front (two offset Vs), so why isn't that a W engine?

*THIS* is a true W engine (three banks of cylinders), as far as I'm concerned:
260px-Napier_Lion_W12_%40_Brooklands_Museum.JPG


Then there's the "offset Vs with two crankshafts" 2-stroke "W layout" too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_engine
 
Not entirely true...

Calling VW's "W layout" engines isn't entirely accurate either, they just kinda call them that. The VR6 looks no different from the front (two offset Vs), so why isn't that a W engine?

A traditional V6 has 2 banks of 3 cylinders. The VR6 has a single bank of 6 cylinders, so the VR6's share the same head.

I guess it's because you really can't call a W12 a V12 for the same reason you can't call a VR6 a V6, it's just not the same.

A V12 has 2 banks of 6 inline cylinders. VW's W12 is 2 banks of 15 degree 6 cylinders.
 
Lol those are the normal torque and hp curves...nothing special there.

There are two graphs there. The electric motor for the front wheels isn't programmed to turn on until high RPMs.

See the flat line that is much higher than the regular engine's power at the end of the RPMs?

The car is gasoline rear wheel drive and electric front wheel drive.

Just pointing this out with this thread...
 
Not entirely true...

Calling VW's "W layout" engines isn't entirely accurate either, they just kinda call them that. The VR6 looks no different from the front (two offset Vs), so why isn't that a W engine?

*THIS* is a true W engine (three banks of cylinders), as far as I'm concerned:
260px-Napier_Lion_W12_%40_Brooklands_Museum.JPG


Then there's the "offset Vs with two crankshafts" 2-stroke "W layout" too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_engine
Stuff I already knew is stuff I already knew.
 
There are two graphs there. The electric motor for the front wheels isn't programmed to turn on until high RPMs.

See the flat line that is much higher than the regular engine's power at the end of the RPMs?

The car is gasoline rear wheel drive and electric front wheel drive.

Just pointing this out with this thread...

It is not from the electric motor, its pointing where the top HP is made in the powerband and since the HP is way higher than TQ, they lowered the graph for the HP but they let the bar pointing the Max Hp where it belong.
Take a looke at the Prius one, no HP bar there, only a TQ one 💡

And by the way, in a Hybrid car, the electric motor only runs at low RPM. In the powerband graph, If we beleive you, it would only kick in at the redline ...
 
DAH. I took another look and what you say makes sense. However, the description of the dual note concept says that the electric motor is used for the front wheels only.

But yeah, that would be for lower revs and would just contribute to the overall power.

What I thought was a strange and unique thing... Isn't. D'oh.
 
I thought the Prius' graph was different because the gas engine and electric motor powered the same wheels. It's a bit different than the dual note that uses different wheels for the gas and electric.
 
Suprised no one mentioned the Cizeta with it's two V8s stuck end to end. Not quite "twin engine", but close.

Cizeta-V16T-2.jpg
 
Not entirely true...

Calling VW's "W layout" engines isn't entirely accurate either, they just kinda call them that. The VR6 looks no different from the front (two offset Vs), so why isn't that a W engine?

*THIS* is a true W engine (three banks of cylinders), as far as I'm concerned:
260px-Napier_Lion_W12_%40_Brooklands_Museum.JPG


Then there's the "offset Vs with two crankshafts" 2-stroke "W layout" too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_engine

Don't forget you can get 'H' engines as well (albeit they've never been popular)
764px-BRM_H16_engine.jpg
 
Don't forget you can get 'H' engines as well (albeit they've never been popular)
764px-BRM_H16_engine.jpg

That's the 64-valve that never raced. It's what the engine should have been from the start in '66, but BRM were spreading themselves too thin with other engine projects at the time. It has two crankshafts, too. They were supposed to be contra-rotating, but ended up with an idler gear between them because they were conservative with the castings. There were also compromises with the cylinder head cooling, and materials. All of these made it much bigger and heavier than it ought to have been.

The flat-eight crankshafts had a habit of throwing themselves to pieces (as Porsche also found out), so they used ordinary flat-plane V8 cranks early in competition. This meant two cylinders firing at the same time, like two perfectly synchronised four-cylinder engines sharing a crankshaft, interleaved with another two on a different crankshaft - this put extra stress on bearing surfaces and hurt reliability.
They fixed the issues with the true flat-eight cranks, and had a proper 16-cylinder firing order (which sounded like four interleaved four-cylinder engines) sometime in 1967, but it was already too late for the engine to be competitive, and BRM switched to a V12 they had been working with Weslake on for 1968.

Note that most sound clips claiming to be this engine are in fact the earlier V16. I've only ever seen two video clips on the internet, one of which has fallen into the ether. The other is here.

But yeah, even though BRM claimed it was two of their V8s flattened and geared together, they were really only talking about bore / stroke dimensions and cylinder head design, as this is a single, bespoke engine.
 
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