Dumb Car Questions Thread

[Liquid]

I've created a similar thread in the OCE subforum and thought that there might be scope for one here. Any questions to which there might not necessarily be an easily googleable answer or even something you actually do know but are unsure of.

Here's mine to get started and I won't be surprised if there isn't actually an answer to it. I'm just weirdly curious about this:

In the 1960s, the British Motor Corporation bought Pressed Steel, the metallurgical manufacturer responsible for the actual building of car bodies for most of the British motor industry. This gave BMC the inside knowledge of the technical details of its rival competitors. It led to BMC easily gobbling up most of the other companies (notable exceptions being Ford and Vauxhall) and creating British Leyland.

Why were they allowed to do this? Why were they able to buy their rivals' bodywork supplier? Surely the other car companies should have objected to and blocked the purchase because they didn't want their own intellectual property falling into the hands of a dominant competitor.

 

[Tornado]

I suspect it was because the British government themselves actively wanted there to be one monolithic bloc of British automotive company instead of a bunch of smaller ones semi-competing with each other; and campaigned for the sale to go through. They oversaw the merger that led to British Leyland (and then essentially took control of it anyway) soon afterward, after all. I don't know much of UK politics, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the plans to just take it over themselves hadn't been drawn up long before they actually did and stuff like that was building up to it.



Why they wanted that when the American equivalent companies were already starting to run into the problems that nearly collapsed them over the next couple decades is another question.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Here's a dumb car question. Why is the "chicken tax" law still in effect? Basically the reason why the US market has never truly had any compact pickups.

 

[Tornado]

Because the domestic automakers and US government both want it to stay in place.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Because the domestic automakers and US government both want it to stay in place.

I know. But why would it be relevant now? If it were to be repealed, wouldn't both domestic and foreign marques have a go at making a competitive, compact pickup truck that undercuts the price of a ColoradoCanyon on Silverado/Sierra, for example?

 

[Tornado]

Why would the domestic brands or the US government want there to be competition for the exact thing propping two of the three domestic companies up? Put another way, GM and Ford are already selling all the trucks they can build. Why would they want to do that but also make less money and have less market share because people will buy a truck from Mitsubishi or whatever at 20 grand when ordinarily those would have to spend 35 and (functionally) have to go to GM/Chrysler/Ford to do it?



The chicken tax benefits them even more today than it did in the 1960s when it was enacted.

 

[kikie]

When I was watching "Coroner" and the front end of the car, which is a Ford from the leading actress was filmed, I noticed that the Ford emblem was blank. The word "Ford" was removed.

My dumb questions:

1. Do movie/TV show producers need a license from the manufacturer(s) to use these/this car(s) in a movie/TV show? And if there is no license do they have to remove every "word" of the car's brand?
2. Watching Wheeler Dealers Mike always does test drives in the USA without license plates? Don't you need a license plate to test drive cars on public roads?

 

[daan]

What is the chicken tax?

 

[kikie]

I found the

tax on Wikipedia.

 

[Tornado]

What is the chicken tax?

Pickup trucks and cargo vans not built in the US (or Canada/Mexico) are subject to a 25% additional tariff when sold in the United States since the mid 1960s.

 

[GranTurNismo]

And automakers who dared to offer compact trucks in the US did everything they could to avoid the deadly chicken tax. The Plymouth Scamp and VW Rabbit pickup were classified as car-based utes as opposed to light trucks. GM rebadged the Isuzu D-Max as the Chevrolet Luv for the US-market and had it built in Central America. The Subaru BRAT, funnily enough, had rear-facing swivel seats in the bed to prevent it from being a "truck". Unless I've missed any, I don't think there were any trucks sold in America that actually had the chicken Tax imposed on it. Because obviously, no one would buy a compact pickup for the price of a new F-150 or C/K.

 

[Tornado]

Chrysler and Volkswagen didn't need to do any BRAT-style shenanigans to sell the Rampage and Caddy in the US, since they were both built here. Westmoreland didn't close until after the Mk II Golf debuted.

 

[Neddo]

Do cars that are produced in more wet areas like UK rot faster than those produced in dry areas? I know that in more damp and polluted conditions cars rot faster, but I wonder how much influence does place of production have, not just usage area.

 

[Crash]

What is the chicken tax?

Originally imposed by Lyndon B. Johnson on France and West Germany in retaliation for them imposing tariffs on US chickens.

--

Ford Transit Connects are shipped to the US with rear passenger seats, an interior and rear windows. At port after import, Ford removes all those items and recycles them and puts the cargo interior in. This is done to avoid the Chicken Tax.

Unless I've missed any, I don't think there were any trucks sold in America that actually had the chicken Tax imposed on it.

I believe the Toyota T-100 was subject to the Chicken Tax.

 

[Liquid]

Ford Transit Connects are shipped to the US with rear passenger seats, an interior and rear windows. At port after import, Ford removes all those items and recycles them and puts the cargo interior in. This is done to avoid the Chicken Tax.

Is the Ford Transit a big seller? I'd have thought that the NADM had plenty of vehicles that suit that role and that it would have been unnecessary for Ford to import it.

 

[Tornado]

The minivan market in general had completely abandoned the segment that they originally sat in with the original Caravan and the Aerostar, but far more notable than the probably dozens of passenger Transit Connects they sell is that the cargo version of the Transit Connect that bypasses the Chicken Tax effectively replaced the Ford Ranger as the go-to vehicle for utility companies and gardeners and etc who didn't want/need/afford to go buy an F-150.

The Ranger was the last inexpensive compact pickup on the market (to the extent that when Ford announced they were discontinuing it, companies bought huge stocks of ones to sit around waiting to be used, like police departments did with the Crown Victoria), and the Transit Connect is pretty close in size.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Is the Ford Transit a big seller? I'd have thought that the NADM had plenty of vehicles that suit that role and that it would have been unnecessary for Ford to import it.

As far as I know, there are no domestically produced utility vans here in the USA besides the old-fashioned Ford E series and Chevy Express/GMC Savana. Those vans have truck architecture (body on frame, big rear axle) meaning high load floors and limited practicality versus something like a Sprinter or a Transit. Of course there are plenty of pickup trucks, but those aren't exactly ideal for many (most?) trades that need to transport stuff, especially with how high the beds on most of them have become.

I think I see more of the import-style vans doing business in San Francisco (especially the smaller ones) than the big American vans or Pickups these days.

 

[kikie]

I came across this youtube clip and it seems that LHD is the wrong way after all.

Is it or is it not important which the correct side is?

 

[kikie]

What can I use to keep a car dry and hopefully rust-free without a garage or a carport?

Is this good enough?

 

[wfooshee]

Rust doesn't really come from weather, but from road grime, especially in areas that salt the roads in winter. This is the rust you see in rocker panels and fenders. Covering the car won't help with that.

Secondarily, rust can form in places that collect water, like the base of the windshield or rear window, or the bottom of the door panels, if drainage passages are clogged with debris. It can also form if the paint fails and leaves steel exposed. A microscopic pinhole is enough to start rust forming under what may look like good paint, but once it starts, there's no fixing it except to grind it out and repaint, possibly with a panel replacement.

The best rust protection is cleaning. That is, if you want to actually use the car. Not using it obviously reduces exposure to the elements... 🤪

Also, you don't want to cover a wet car. Coming home in the rain and covering the car is Bad, capital-B.

 

[kikie]

Thanks @wfooshee

 

[Duke]

Everything @wfooshee said. Clean the undercarriage regularly and make sure all the drain holes are clear. Also pay close attention to anything that allows moisture to collect - at trim, the back side folds of panel edges, areas with hollow spots like between the fender and leading edge of the door. Dirt, funk, and even leaves can collect in those areas and hold moisture against the metal.

Also, if you have to drive the car during winter, I know people who spray the underside with a light coating of used automatic transmission fluid with some success.

 

[Duke]

Do cars that are produced in more wet areas like UK rot faster than those produced in dry areas? I know that in more damp and polluted conditions cars rot faster, but I wonder how much influence does place of production have, not just usage area.

Not really. Cars produced in traditionally wet areas tend to be designed to deal with moisture better (there are always exceptions, of course).

For instance, Swedish and German cars typically do well resisting major rust, while Italian cars seem to start biodegrading almost immediately upon manufacture.

 

[Joey D]

Also, if you have to drive the car during winter, I know people who spray the underside with a light coating of used automatic transmission fluid with some success.

You can also use a product called Fluid Film, which a lanolin-based rust protector. I used it all the time with my Tacoma because Toyota frames aren't exactly the best when it comes to not rusting to bits. It worked great, was non-toxic, and solvent-free. I'd throw a coating on before offroading too so mud didn't cake up on the frame rails.

 

[Wolfe]

Dirt, funk, and even leaves can collect in those areas and hold moisture against the metal.

The same action occurs beneath a coat of gravel dust, all over.

 

[TheCracker]

Do cars that are produced in more wet areas like UK rot faster than those produced in dry areas? I know that in more damp and polluted conditions cars rot faster, but I wonder how much influence does place of production have, not just usage area.

British cars of the 70's and Italian cars of the 70's-80's were well known to be very rust-prone. Mostly due to the poor quality steel used in manufacturing them. The Italian used to use cheap Russian steel that contained low amounts of the minerals that resist rusting. Cars have long since been galvanised, so it's much less of an issue these days. But old labels die hard.

You still see rust, but it tends to be from chips/damage to paintwork or poorly repaired accident damage where the elements can reach the surface of the metal. In countries where damp conditions are common, like the UK, or where salt is used on icy roads, again like in the UK, this is more of an issue. The whole automated painting process i imagine is done entirely in environmentally controlled areas of the factories, so i doubt the country of origin has any factor in a cars likelihood to rust.

 

[kikie]

Can one use cars still as an investment? For example, the new Alfa Romeo GTA(m).

 

[wfooshee]

Not unless you've got decades to wait and see if it becomes a collectible classic. Which 99.9999537982% of cars do not. Meanwhile, that money is tied up in something that is losing value every day.

Cars have never been an investment, they've simply been something people want, and if they become rare enough and desirable enough, then you can make money if you got one early and kept it immaculate. And again, that money would have been far more useful elsewhere.

 

[kikie]

There are 500 of these GTA(m)s and many of them (Alfa source I talked to when I saw the GTAm in a showroom) are already bought by collectors.

 

[Liquid]

Why are pickups and other utility vehicles body-on-frame instead of unibody?