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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Nov 11, 2020.
Congratulations for this achievment.
Good luck Emily!!
In what way is he calling for the status quo to be maintained? Treating women and men differently is what put those barriers up in the first place.
Let me try rephrasing my point as a question: Do you think it is helpful to put a massive spotlight on every woman who breaks into racing? Some will like it no doubt, but others will be put off by it and that doesn't help if you're seeking to make the ratio of men and women taking part closer to 1:1.
It's like when you hear about women who get discouraged from taking part in online games with voice chat because they get singled out and treated differently solely for being female. That's the angle I'm coming from. Not making a fuss provides them the environment they're looking for, and that's what Frank was promoting.
If you're seeking to make something normal, it never will be if you forever draw attention to it every time it happens. The point I was making is that eventually you need to stop. The disagreement here is where that point lies and whether it has been reached yet. I personally don't think it has, for the record.
And doing nothing different is keeping those barriers firmly entrenched.
Strawman, as that's not what I have advocated, nor is it what has happened here.
You also miss the point that is not as I'm Emily was forced to do the interview, she seems quite happy to have the spotlight put on her for this purpose, the one who is making the massive issue about her gender is you.
You missed the part about them being discouraged by being treated differently in a negative manner, positive re-enforcement and publicly acknowledge role-models will help women into the sport, not discourage them.
Dismissing the achievements they have made as "That’s why we must put on a pedestal and treat as a goddess every woman who accomplishes ¼ of what a man does" discourages women, not interviews and article like this one.
This is literally the first time it's happened and the first interview of its type the site has run, how the **** is that 'forever drawing attention to it', christ on a bike, your own insecurity is shining through here. That you (and a thankfully small number of others) are focusing on the fact that her gender was pointed out, rather than her actually accomplishments says a massive amount about your own views on the subject of gender and equality.
Do you get similarly worked up when interviews are phrased as the oldest/youngest/first from country x are published around esport or sports in general? I'm going to hazard a guess that you never have (feel free to counter with evidence), those would be seen as perfectly acceptable, additional pieces of information, yet this one deserves to be critiqued. Maybe ask yourself why that is?
I ask again, what do the detractors want to do about this article in mean time?
What would you like the the staff to do in the future so as not to offend some peoples' delicate sensibilties?
I think some people here want to complain because its just in them to complain and yet they have no 'solutions' at hand.
That’s not correct. It’s more along these lines:
“Women are underrepresented in racing, that’s why it’s newsworthy when Gran Turismo get it’s first female finalist.”
“Women are underrepresented in racing, that’s why it’s exciting to see someone reaching the final for the first time.”
“Women are underrepresented in racing, that’s why I hope Emily will do well in the finals and inspire more women to follow her example.”
I watched Emily at the Sydney Finals she was amazingly quick since then she's gotten much better too. I actually didn't know who she was until the day ended I found out. She was literally 5 ft in front of me greeting fans, I was so tempted to go up and say hi, but of course I was too shy LOL.
I met Jimmer twice and Kaz though so that was amazing. I actually had a little 2 minute chat to Jimmy so that truly made my day. I wish Emily all the best and I know she will Rep AUS proudly. Go Girl
Emily is part of a sim racing team I was a part of during its creation many years ago, Trans Tasman Racing and it pleases me greatly to see that not only does the team still exist but it's thriving on even professional sim racing levels. The team had its origin on Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, so it's great to see there is still some indirect representation on Gran Turismo at a high level.
Good luck Emily, may your laps be fast, your races clean and your time fun at the tournament!
I was referring to things in general. Of course Emily wouldn't have done the interview if she wasn't comfortable with it.
I haven't made a massive issue about her gender either. I started my first post in this thread with congratulations for her, as I would for anyone who got an article/interview asking how they feel about qualifying for the finals for the first time. I was simply trying to bridge a gap after seeing things take a very antagonistic jolt. That'll teach me to try to calm things down.
I thought the example of voice chat would have made it clear I was referring to the unwanted attention that plagues a lot of female gamers, and how not making a fuss whenever a woman appears in a environment that's predominantly filled with men can encourage more participation from women.
I'm not worked up, and I don't have any insecurities here. You seem to think I'm against the article, I'm not. I opened my first post with congratulations for Emily and you even quoted me saying that I agree with celebrating her achievement.
"If you're seeking to make something normal, it never will be if you forever draw attention to it every time it happens. The point I was making is that eventually you need to stop. The disagreement here is where that point lies and whether it has been reached yet. I personally don't think it has, for the record."
I was simply making the point that eventually to make something normal you need to stop bringing attention to it, and everyone's going to have their own perspective on when the right time is. That doesn't mean they should get piled on for adopting a stance that's in-line with when it has become normal. You may think they've stopped too soon, but they're not working against you. Everyone in this thread is on the same side here.
And yet you defended a member that quite clearly is attempting to maintain a status quo in which women are limited in what they can achieve and went on to post what can only be described as a misogynistic myth.
Unfortunately no, they are not. The majority are, but some are not, and that's without the posts that have had to be deleted from here, Facebook and YouTube!
Congrats to Emily!
And someone getting triggered by a woman accomplishing something is really on-brand for the racing community. Not gonna quote the individual, but maybe someone should write a news article when they finally go on a date.
Congrats to her! Been watching her streams for a while now, my original, cute racing girl.
Is this what the kids today call "simping"?
No. Not even close.
No, it's what the kids today call 'not being a dick'!
Good for her, there are others like her who are less known. On the other hand I think simracing and car culture will always be a male dominated thing just because more men are interested in these topics than women.
Best delete the article and never report on anything but male subjects.
I mean you wouldnt want to offend any snowflakes would you?
Amazing how the strong male right wing types are triggered by these kinds of articles and they have the temerity to call out others for being 'sensitive'.
People cant even read the headlines and then not bother to comment... they have to show their collective a$$e$ for what they are.
So I just saw this pop up on the new posts feed on the main forum page and I just knew a particular discussion was being had, and I was right, but it's been addressed plenty and I don't have anything to add. One thing jumped out at me, though, and I'm compelled to remark on it...
As an aside, I'm fairly certain you can just say "asses" here, bud. If it's not actually kosher, it's also generally not appropriate to circumvent efforts to censor prohibited words. I say let the profanity fly and the system ought to step in where it's been deemed necessary.
For all the debate here I have mostly kept out of it. Just good to see that racers with skill can get into the world tours. Regardless of any drama, she's the first woman to do what she has done, and should be recognized as such. We need more racers in this game and in racing worldwide. If she is bringing more people in thanks to her accomplishments then all the better, for all of us. She already brings plenty of speed and skill.
Don't pop my head in too much here outside of the FIA/Daily threads but a little disheartened to see much of a negative reaction at all to an interview with a top-class player who a) behaves like a class act and b) puts up with a fair amount of BS from jerks online. As always, there will be insecure players who get extremely butt-blasted over the spotlight being shone on an extremely skilled player who simply by participating (and most importantly, in public to a big audience) is providing some of the most positive PR and enthusiasm a game and community that definitely need it could ever ask for. It is what it is and after 20 years of competitive gaming in multiple completely unrelated genres you see the same pattern time and time again. You would think maybe even some of the detractors would surely see at a very minimum this upside to the coverage that bothers them so much but I guess not. Ah well, great stuff!
Jesus Christ, the internet really has turned a funny meme about over-obsessing dudes and just applied it to any man arguing in favor of a woman.
Way to outshine Frank's comments....
First and for most I would like to congratulate Emily for her achievement and wish her succes.
Second of all, to the people who want to view this as "normal" is there really a problem/issue that a article highlights a female FIA finalist for the very first time in a male dominated area?
I do not see any issue whatsoever to the fact she was highlighted for being the first ever female finalist (because SHE LITERALLY is the first one).
That in itself deserves to be a highlighted topic and let alone it should make Emily proud to be the first to accomplish this.
It has nothing to do with gender equality or normalizing peoples view or being seen as a "Godess", it is a simple matter of appreciation to the females out there who enjoys sim-racing just like males do and that in itself puts woman in equal view into a very "male dominated" area.
The article is just stating some facts: That she is indeed the very first FEMALE FIA finalist to get this far nothing wrong or praising just simply appreciation.
As a backmarker in top split Oceania, I can tell you Em is the real deal. I remember watching her as an "Amateur" in the Pro-Am race in world tour earlier this year (or was it last year? can't remember). I thought good for her, she didn't do too badly. Then I saw her name pop up in a couple FIA races earlier this year. She went from a literal DR E to DR B in the space of one FIA season. I thought, not bad, but she's still slower than me. Famous last words Next season, she climbed to DR A+ and left me for dead in a couple of races. In the official season, she's fighting with Makozi and co, and actually winning some of those races! Granted she also does iRacing and has been karting for a long time, but GT still has its own quirks to be fast. Just shows that if you have the talent, you can get to the top without too much practice.
Oh and being fast is one thing, but she's also still respectful to other racers even if they're slower. Most aliens when they come up behind backmarkers they will just send it up the inside, but with Em she still tries to overtake you properly I think everyone in top split accepts her as an equal, no issues. It's disheartening to see the people still putting her down due to gender. I've seen some youtube comments questioning if she's trans. Like what the actual? I just don't get some people. I bet there are more female racers in the community but most chose to stay anonymous because people either turn into a simp, or just be nasty because they can't stand getting beaten by a girl.
Anyway, best of luck to her in the finals and hope we can see more following in her racing boot-steps
Nice interview - congrats to Emily and good luck.
This forum thread... smh.
Good interview. Congratulations to making the finals on your own merits, I wish I was that good.
Good to acknowledge it, might bring more women in, more racers is good for us all.
I would like to say great article great person! All great!
(Please though for the love of all that’s good in the world take the mental masturbation about gender etc somewhere else!)
Congrats to a great racer! Maybe more girls will get into the hobby, which is good for everyone involved!
Congrats to Emily, I wasn't aware of her prior to this so I appreciate the interview.
Its a great achievement in itself but so much more as a female in this male dominated area. For those saying "so what if she's a woman", then you clearly have no idea what it's like. You aren't being woke or non sexist, just ignorant. It's not the same for women, far from it and to say it is means you're part of the problem.
There is so little female player base that it makes even getting into it in the first place that much more difficult, let alone keeping at it to such a level. And there is such a lot of toxic and derogatory male opinion that continues to dissuade women doing what is typically male at every step.
I follow really driver Louise Cook on YT and half the comments on her videos are absolutely disgusting misogynistic BS, and I'm sure Emily gets much of the same. People saying aggressive sexual abuse, women shouldn't be racing, get back in the kitchen, she's not that quick / they could beat her etc etc. If I had to face that every day, I'm not sure I would be able to continue. And saying she's only getting publicity, opportunity etc because she a woman - it's all part of the same.
So it's an absolutely massive credit to any woman that makes it in this world against that.
LOL, imagine being so triggered by an article about a woman that you feel the need to post comments discouraging the authors from posting articles about women. And then convincing yourself that what you're doing is a good thing....for women. So much smart.
But, she should only be in the kitchen making dinner for our 9 kids. Not in front of some silly driving game.
I see her as any other driver, but in terms of expanding the game and motorsport in general, the likes of an Emily Jones not only competing, but doing well can only be seen as a positive. Especially in gaming where the non-esport fan only sees girl gamers as those who dress provocatively in order to draw an audience. Who are not actually very good at the games.
This may be a shock to some but not all opinions are exclusive to a political leaning.
It's funny, all the people here whining about "right wingers" are probably against racism yet are doing a great job showing their own prejudice by associating negative behavior with a political leaning and labeling as such.
I thought insults were against the rules here anyways? Yet I've seen them called "snowflakes" and "triggered". But I suppose it has nothing to do with the mod also being in disagreement with them and throwing out labels of his own their way.
I disagree with them too but I disagree far more with this sort of nonsense.
Way to ruin what should've been a positive discussion. Congrats to Emily.