Engine braking not correct!!!

[Gio318is]

Hi Every body, i hope alot of People Will reply to this message because its time they fixed this great problem and iff they fix it it Will make thé game so much better. Thé problem is that with Every car you drive in thé game you Cant Brake on engine because of some stupid bug that makes thé flywheel heavier you can notice this verry good Will standing still and push thé thé throthlle, first push thé throthlle Will holding thé clutch and then do thé same without holding thé clutch and see how great this problem is. I really don't know why nobody notices this it's so obvious. So please People check this out and share this bug so hopefully they fixed this soon thanks in advance greetings Giovanni

 

[Meythia]

As far as I am concerned, there is no clutch "button" in GT7.
Also, if you were to press the "clutch button" and by that disengange the clutch, you would have no engine braking as you disconnect the engine from the wheels.

I guess, instead you are referring to the handbrake of GT7.

 

[Magog]

As far as I am concerned, there is no clutch "button" in GT7.
Also, if you were to press the "clutch button" and by that disengange the clutch, you would have no engine braking as you disconnect the engine from the wheels.

I guess, instead you are referring to the handbrake of GT7.

I think he's confusing the lack of acceleration in a manual when you're not in gear vs the constant tug of acceleration in an automatic with engine braking.

 

[Gio318is]

As far as I am concerned, there is no clutch "button" in GT7.
Also, if you were to press the "clutch button" and by that disengange the clutch, you would have no engine braking as you disconnect the engine from the wheels.

I guess, instead you are referring to the handbrake of GT7.

No iff you play with a steering wheel then you have 3 pedals and one of those pedals is thé clutch ,and you can press that clutch to see what it doing to that way thé engine revs op and down it's to slow iff you are not holding thé clutch and this also is happening Will driving. normaly the engine revs down way Faster. so iff you play with controller you won't be abble to test this problem. 'this problem is allready pressent since GT sport and never fixed . But because everybody is allways Busy driving those race Cars they don't notice it. But for us real drivers this is worst bug ever iff i release my throttle i want that they Cars slow down on engine power without braking like they do in real life this is not thé case now because that's not happening now you have to brake to get you're front off the car down Will driving and lift thé back. It's so obvious really i don't understand why nobody notices. I know for sure this bug only would change thé game in so many ways because this effects allot of things in thé game Will driving thé game would be so much Smoother so to Every one that's reading this please take you're time to see it for you're self before you give some stupid answer because you don't understand. It's easy PRESS THROTHLLE WILL HOLDING CLUTCH AND THEN ,PRESS THROTHLLE WITHOUT HOLDING CLUTCH. AND IFF YOU HAVE A MANUAL CAR IN REAL LIFE TRY IT IN THAT CAR ALSO THE SAME WAY 😉

I think he's confusing the lack of acceleration in a manual when you're not in gear vs the constant tug of acceleration in an automatic with engine braking.

you understand now?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Might be struggling with understanding what you mean as English is clearly not your first language, but in the video you're performing the demonstration with the car in neutral. With the clutch pedal pressed, the engine is just spinning down at its own speed (including I guess the flywheel). With the clutch pedal out, the additional rotational energy stored in the gearbox means the engine takes longer to slow down. That seems right to me, but I can't see with what you're doing with your feet in the video.

If you take a car to 100mph and coast to a standstill changing down the box as you go, versus just popping it into neutral that would indicate that engine breaking works. I'm fairly sure it does because even in the sequential boxes slamming it hard down the gears seems to stop the car faster than by just using the brakes.

 

[Meythia]

I'm fairly sure it does because even in the sequential boxes slamming it hard down the gears seems to stop the car faster than by just using the brakes.

Just tried on SSRX with the following setup:
any car with a setup so you dont vary and variable speed at a certian point (300km/h at the pit exit).
first run: go full speed and hit brakes, see distance,
second run: go full speed and both hit brakes and downshift to lowest gear, see distance is equal.
It seems the game does not have engine brake at all.

 

[Gio318is]

Might be struggling with understanding what you mean as English is clearly not your first language, but in the video you're performing the demonstration with the car in neutral. With the clutch pedal pressed, the engine is just spinning down at its own speed (including I guess the flywheel). With the clutch pedal out, the additional rotational energy stored in the gearbox means the engine takes longer to slow down. That seems right to me, but I can't see with what you're doing with your feet in the video.

If you take a car to 100mph and coast to a standstill changing down the box as you go, versus just popping it into neutral that would indicate that engine breaking works. I'm fairly sure it does because even in the sequential boxes slamming it hard down the gears seems to stop the car faster than by just using the brakes.

i know my english could be better but thats not the point look at this video then and tell me again i'm wrong this my mx5 2021 2.0l thats how it should be reving down with or without clutch.

 

[Famine]

If you take a car to 100mph and coast to a standstill changing down the box as you go, versus just popping it into neutral that would indicate that engine breaking works. I'm fairly sure it does because even in the sequential boxes slamming it hard down the gears seems to stop the car faster than by just using the brakes.

It does. For one of our stranger lobby races - back in Sport, but the user suggests the issue as perceived was also in Sport and has carried over - we ran a coasting qualification session.

In essence the regulation was that you ran an outlap and then were immediately banned from using the throttle at all once you crossed the line to start the next lap. The grid order was set by who got the furthest without any additional throttle input, and the difference between using the gears (to both limit speed loss and accelerate on descents) and neutral was pretty stark.

 

[Gio318is]

Just tried on SSRX with the following setup:
any car with a setup so you dont vary and variable speed at a certian point (300km/h at the pit exit).
first run: go full speed and hit brakes, see distance,
second run: go full speed and both hit brakes and downshift to lowest gear, see distance is equal.
It seems the game does not have engine brake at all.

Correct you understand it that indeed thé fact and it's big problem

 

[MatskiMonk]

Just tried on SSRX with the following setup:
any car with a setup so you dont vary and variable speed at a certian point (300km/h at the pit exit).
first run: go full speed and hit brakes, see distance,
second run: go full speed and both hit brakes and downshift to lowest gear, see distance is equal.
It seems the game does not have engine brake at all.

Just tried a the 2022 ND MX-5, bone stock.
SSRX, from steady 100mph, (limited by a wedge under the pedal), in 5th. Timings taken from the replay.

Coasting in neutral (Shift straight into Neutral)
At 100mph - time taken to coast to a standstill: 201.372s

Coasting in gear (Shift down one gear when the rev bar drops off the left until 1st gear)
At 100mph - time taken to coast to a standstill: 79.217s

Engine breaking very much does exist in the game. In the test you conducted, how much the engine breaking affects the stopping performance relies on the differential between engine braking and friction braking being noticeable, that's a lot of variables. I thought I'd try something similar anyway.

Viper Gr.3, bone stock.
SSRX, from steady 140mph, (limited by a wedge under the pedal, in 5th). Timings taken from the replay.

Braking in 5th (leave in 5th to standstill)
At 140mph - time taken to reach standstill: 3.800s

Braking in gear (shifting straight down the box to first)
At 140mph - time taken to reach standstill: 3.716s

So, marginally faster, since I'm going from the times in the replay, I'd guess there'll be a little variance, but I bet if you did it 10 times in a row, at least 9 of them would be quicker. Also worth considering that the engine braking acts on the rear wheels in the Viper, which offer less retarding traction anyway. But in any case 0.084s in each big stopping zone could be the difference between Gold and Silver.

In both cases its also worth pointing out that by the time you reach first and the revs are dropping anyway, the engine braking effect is much less, it all happens at high RPM.



To @Gio318is 's point, the revs do indeed fall faster when the clutch is disengaged, and slower when the clutch is engaged.

Again, with the clutch engaged the rotational mass trying to turn the engine is higher, it's like having a much heavier flywheel. I'm not saying it's 100% accurate, and I'd be surprised if it's accurately modelled based on real world weights, I'd imagine more just a fixed factor or percentage, but there's an intuitive element to it at least. I'm curious to see what my car would do in the real world, but since it's still having its bottom end taken apart, I can't.

 

[Meythia]

Engine breaking very much does exist in the game

I guess this then comes down to an aspect of gameplay only available when the controls are available.
Me as a pad player doesnt have those.

Or for whatever reason it was related to the choice of car as I did only test a single one for with and without downshifting.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I guess this then comes down to an aspect of gameplay only available when the controls are available.
Me as a pad player doesnt have those.

Or for whatever reason it was related to the choice of car as I did only test a single one for with and without downshifting.

Take a road car with a standard box and coast to zero from speed without touching the gears, and then downshift to zero from speed whilst you're revs are still high, you will see a diffence.

 

[Gio318is]

And yes some of you guys are correct engine braking is in thé game but it's not fast enough that's thé problem. What's also is abproblem in thé game is when you downshift in a car using thé clutch it automatic gives throthlle what also effects thé engine braking but that's An other issue they need to fix because that's maybe thé case in new Cars white driving aids on but that should not be thé case in 1973 Porsche but still it does it in thé game and again nobody notices this. And just look on my YouTube profile there you Will find video's from me on Nürburgring with my Cars in real life and normaly then you should see allready that i know what i'm talking about iff you look how i drive that should speak for itself otherwise i could not risc to drive like i drive

 

[MatskiMonk]

What's also is abproblem in thé game is when you downshift in a car using thé clutch it automatic gives throthlle what also effects thé engine braking but that's An other issue they need to fix because that's maybe thé case in new Cars white driving aids on but that should not be thé case in 1973 Porsche but still it does it in thé game and again nobody notices this.

No it doesn't. Acceleration, coasting down the gears, and then acceleration and braking down through the gears...



At no point did the throttle do anything I didn't do with my right foot.

 

[Gio318is]

No it doesn't. Acceleration, coasting down the gears, and then acceleration and braking down through the gears...



At no point did the throttle do anything I didn't do with my right foot.

I guess you are not hearing good then, i can hear thé car giving throthlle when you are downshifting

 

[newmedia_dev]

You have to remember that you can't stall a car in the game so they do some stuff behind the scenes with the clutch and also Rev matching that limits (with the fake in game ECU) true over revving which would destroy the gear box or crank shaft/pistons.

So engine braking is artificially manipulated with false mass which then supports the fly wheel upgrades that allow for faster (lighter) spinning and reduced engine/transmission drag (engine braking) when using the lighter fly wheels.

 

[MatskiMonk]

You have to remember that you can't stall a car in the game

You can stall a car in the game. It's pretty forgiving on the stall condition, and there's no stall out sound effect, or engine restart/cranking sounds effect, but if you come to a dead stop in gear with a proper manual gear box in the car, the engine shuts off. To restart it you have to shift to neutral and blip the throttle to restart the engine, then slot it in gear and pull away as normal.

so they do some stuff behind the scenes with the clutch and also Rev matching that limits (with the fake in game ECU) true over revving which would destroy the gear box or crank shaft/pistons.

They don't model damage to the gearbox etc, but this isn't achieved by any kind of auto rev matching. From 40 seconds in my video above. I'm in third off throttle and push the clutch, the revs drop right down, and I shift into neutral at about 1500rpm, select second, and the revs don't rise at all until I release the clutch. I then do the same with the shift into first, the game isn't doing any to match the revs at all. I think when I release the clutch in first, you can hear a chirp from the rear tyres. It appears as though the game calculates what the maximum speed of the real wheels in each gear could be, and if the road speed is higher the wheel wheels effectively slide along the road - that appears to be the most severe penalty for shifting down to far.

I guess you are not hearing good then, i can hear thé car giving throthlle when you are downshifting

I don't hear it, see it or feel it.

I'm not saying there aren't perhaps some cars in game that do model throttle blipping or rev-matchin on stock transmissions, or aftermarket transmissions, but it's not an ever present feature.

 

[RoadRacer2556]

I guess you are not hearing good then, i can hear thé car giving throthlle when you are downshifting

If you are hearing the RPMs jump up, that is not from throttle, that is what happens when you shift to a lower gear. No throttle involved.

 

[Gio318is]

If you are hearing the RPMs jump up, that is not from throttle, that is what happens when you shift to a lower gear. No throttle involved.

Yes you are Wright in that but still it's not correct.you can also drive through this error just by using the clutch without accelerating up to almost 100 km / h. and everything you all say is more or less right, but I say it's not quite right. the return of the revs should fall much faster. And the effect of engine braking should be much more immediate. I even feel that it's not right in the way thé throthlle is behaving. and that this is all because of this one problem. and I've already proven it's not right I've had 19 cars myself and not one of these cars had such a slow (heavy) flywheel.

If you are hearing the RPMs jump up, that is not from throttle, that is what happens when you shift to a lower gear. No throttle involved.

Just look to thé way my revs fall in my Mazda MX5 ND that video should prove my Point but i geuss all the Cars i drive in real life are Broken i guess hahahaha just show me one video from a car in real life that is rmp's keep hanging like they do in thé game. In beginning of GT sport this wasn't present in thé game it Came after 6 updates or so, and in Granturismo 6 this was perfect so i'm sure they can make it wright.

 

[Nightwing24]

@Gio318is

Engine braking exists in GT7, to say it doesn’t is spreading misinformation despite your personal hyperbolic experience. Physics are not 100% accurate in GT7, it is known and we have many threads on it already:

The Stupidity of GT7 physics

GT7 has been out for long enough now for PD to get their act together with regard to how cars react when leaving the circuit, especially when faced with a barrier.... and how penalties are dished out for supposedly 'forcing another car off track' (this one really is a joke). Running off track...

www.gtplanet.net

Gran Turismo 7 Physics

In my opinion PD should step up the physics in the next GT. With titles like ACC and GTR 3 coming to console, the competition is going to be hard

www.gtplanet.net

Making Gt7 more realistic

There should be an option where only wheel drivers can enter certain races because there is a difference between controller and wheel characteristics very rarely if ever mentioned. It is correct that wheel and controller times can be very similar but that is by design not implemented to give one...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[TOS420]

I guess you are not hearing good then, i can hear thé car giving throthlle when you are downshifting

It's not giving throttle its just the change in resistance from the clutch disengaging...

 

[gti_sdn]

if you want to verify if throttle is being applied during downshifts, then log the telemetry data.
Collect data with Sim-to-motec by @GeekyDeaks and then look at it in Motec i2
Here is a guide on setting it all up:

I know for certain that there are throttle blips during down shift to rev match
This is entry to turn one at Nurburgring GP, This is full auto. Notice the throttle blips that coincide with the gear shift.

This is the same section of track but using manual shifting (no clutch)

These blips are not however as extreme as what you seem to think is happening.

It may be possible with sim-to-motec to log clutch input as well.

Your video looks fine, though, As you go from 3rd to neutral and then into 2nd the revs will rise how much will depend on the gear ratio and speed, To me it just looks like you are shifting down too soon.

 

[eran0004]

Just tried on SSRX with the following setup:
any car with a setup so you dont vary and variable speed at a certian point (300km/h at the pit exit).
first run: go full speed and hit brakes, see distance,
second run: go full speed and both hit brakes and downshift to lowest gear, see distance is equal.
It seems the game does not have engine brake at all.

With that test you would only see a difference when the disc brakes start to fade due to overheating. And if the car is rear wheel drive you won’t see much of a difference at all since most of the braking is done by the front wheels.

Under normal conditions the stopping distance is determined by the traction of the tyres, and adding more braking torque to the wheel does not increase the grip of the tyres.