Engine sounds dissapearing when running close to anohter car

  • Thread starter Thread starter redlinezak
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Posting here again.
2.06 totally messed up my sounds.
As stated previously my sound comes from the TV speakers as I have no surround sound set up. Before 2.06 with all sound settings on default settings could hear everything fine.
After 2.06 all sounds are muted even when turning them up to 120% in options. When I get close to another car on track they almost totally disappear and at times don't come back up even after I've pulled away from the other car. Its highly annoying as I have to turn the volume way up just to hear the cars normally and yet clicking on the various menu selections produces an almost painfully load sound at that volume.:(
Better sounds for both your own car and the other cars on track would be welcome but this is just ridiculous.:yuck:
 
The sound problem is ridiculous. Online play is totally messed up for me and many others I've talked to online. You cannot hear what your car's engine or the tires are doing. True it's worse for some cars than others, but it's crazy, sometimes you have to get 100-200m past a car before you can hear your own car's sound come back. And it's nearly silent, it's not that the other car way back is drowning out your car's sounds. (The seasonal on SSR5 Clubman is a good example to try.)

I'll try switching to home theatre, but I'm thinking PD actually forgot that most of us still play in plain old stereo and didn't bother to test it.

Desperado - you can adjust the menu volume independently in the options menu. Mine is set to 20% or something (couldn't stand the loud beeping ever since I first got the game. :D)
 
smrtb0mb
The sound problem is ridiculous. Online play is totally messed up for me and many others I've talked to online. You cannot hear what your car's engine or the tires are doing. True it's worse for some cars than others, but it's crazy, sometimes you have to get 100-200m past a car before you can hear your own car's sound come back. And it's nearly silent, it's not that the other car way back is drowning out your car's sounds.
I had these problems before the update, but not since. I wonder what changed, and why it only effects some.

It does suck when it happens. I felt like Christopher Reeves- something is going on down there... but without sound I have no clue. You're right, it's unbearable.

My sympathies. I remember what it was like.

Do you have a ton of pics or cars, by chance?
 
It isn't possible for me to change my audio setting (other than volume and living room/small/large). So I can't have messed that up. If that is set wrong it's either GT5's detection or something I'm supposed to change in the XMB for using basic audio audio that I've not been able to find.

I have noticed that the mute-your-car thing seems a little better on small theater, but it still happened until I put it on large theater. Still thought I heard something sound off at the start of an online race or two, but wasn't sure.

The quiet-other-cars issue has been basically a constant all along, and seems very much the same issue as the no-exhaust-noise and disappearing exhaust when using rear-view(particularly in chase-cam), and I suspect the exhaust-from-one-side issue as well - that one being greatly improved in the most recent patch thankfully. It just seems the sound is too directionally-focused with a sharp drop-off outside its area.

But I digress, this thread is for the own-car-muting I believe.
 
I'll try switching to home theatre, but I'm thinking PD actually forgot that most of us still play in plain old stereo and didn't bother to test it.

Im not sure thats entirely the case as i have a relatively expensive 7.1 surround and its pretty awful for me also.
Pretty much all the sounds seem to have changed but its definately the engine muting that is the worst for me.
 
redlinezak
Im not sure thats entirely the case as i have a relatively expensive 7.1 surround and its pretty awful for me also.
Pretty much all the sounds seem to have changed but its definately the engine muting that is the worst for me.

Odd. Most surround sound users say how fantastic it is.

Haven't heard it through surround myself though.
 
...

The reason I think it is a bug and not simply a case of wrong audio settings is because if you spend extended periods of time really close to someone (like in the 430pp Seasonal at Daytona) while using the roof cam and/or interior camera and then pull away, on occasion your engine sound simply doesn't come back at all unless you cycle through all of the cameras a couple times. And I can't see why having the wrong sound settings for your audio system would cause that, especially not when it hadn't started doing that until 2.06.

Sounds like integrator wind-up, which means that the sounds are really loud in some cases. I get it in a basic limiter I use in my own "creations" in PureData, and really loud pops etc. that I can't be bothered to clean up cause the limiter to max out for a good few seconds before it springs back to normal.

Again, this isn't something I've noticed particularly in the update, so I'll have to test it some more. There's a chance that volume levels are being incorrectly set somehow, which would indeed be a bug. Anyone tried the ol' favourite cache clearing? Is that even relevant? I'm assuming it's the cache of stuff it loads off the disc, but I may be wrong...
 
Many threads on this subject..
It has to do with the exhaust on the car. If you are using stock pipes and the opposing driver has full race exhaust, his is meant to be louder.

Louder yes, but we are talking about when our own car becomes inaudible. If louder sounds fully cancelled out quieter sounds throughout life, we would be in a lot of trouble.

My two cents - In trying to add minor mods to the sound to make races seem more dynamic and exciting, PD have really dropped the ball here. Those changes came in the last but one update if I remember correctly (and "developed" further in the latest), and personally I found that races immediately sounded rather strange. I would often think there was an AI car right up behind me because I could hear his engine, but it turned out to be the next car about 3 turns ahead.

OK I am running a fairly basic sound set up (just two speakers and a sub) but I never got anything like that previously, nor do I with other games.

Add to this the way that suddenly every opponent car is apparently rocking a fat, much louder exhaust, even in the recent 430pp seasonals (where they are presumably running stock) and I start to find it a little mystifying how PD have gone about this. :crazy:
 
Sounds like integrator wind-up, which means that the sounds are really loud in some cases. I get it in a basic limiter I use in my own "creations" in PureData, and really loud pops etc. that I can't be bothered to clean up cause the limiter to max out for a good few seconds before it springs back to normal.

Again, this isn't something I've noticed particularly in the update, so I'll have to test it some more. There's a chance that volume levels are being incorrectly set somehow, which would indeed be a bug. Anyone tried the ol' favourite cache clearing? Is that even relevant? I'm assuming it's the cache of stuff it loads off the disc, but I may be wrong...

I havnt tried a cache clearing however something you said made me think.
Some other sounds (tyre squeal, pulling away in the pits when on a free run etc) are ridiculously loud compared to the normal race volume. Also if i have the race volume at a reasonable level then menu music is virtually inaudible but that is most probably down to my audio settings.

EDIT. - anyway I diverse slightly and as mentioned there are other threads available for general sound issues so if possible would like to keep this to the bug/anomoly mentioned in the title.
 
I havnt tried a cache clearing however something you said made me think.
Some other sounds (tyre squeal, pulling away in the pits when on a free run etc) are ridiculously loud compared to the normal race volume. Also if i have the race volume at a reasonable level then menu music is virtually inaudible but that is most probably down to my audio settings.

EDIT. - anyway I diverse slightly and as mentioned there are other threads available for general sound issues so if possible would like to keep this to the bug/anomoly mentioned in the title.

Yes, setting the dynamic range to Large Theatre makes everything go quiet, relatively speaking; some people turn everything but sound effects right up, and turn sound effects (or whatever it's called) right down to compensate. That's something I'd like to try, as well, actually.

If you're on Small Theatre or Living Room, then it's possibly due to the same bug, i.e. volume levels of certain sources becoming incorrectly set, namely too damned loud.
 
It would help a lot if everyone could post the setup beign used, such as sound output, speaker/surround, connections, PS3 settings and GT5 settings under audio. This may make it easier for us to identify the problem and the reason why it doesn't affects everyone.

I'm using HDMI all the way, and a Sony micro theatre with a 2.1 setup and virtual surround. PS3 output for 5.1, GT5 configured for virtual surround and small theatre. No problems for me. The surround mix changed a bit, but since my audio system remixes the 5.1 signal for the 2 speakers, it could be masking the problem.

I'll test some more when I'm home tonight and post some impressions. Will try a NASCAR race, where the pack runs close, to see how much it changes for me.
 
OK this is all from memory but here goes.
Onkyo 7.1 with PSB speakers.
HDMI from PS3 (fat) to Amp and then to TV.
Initially used living room but changed last night to large theatre.
PS3 set to 7.1 output but i cant remember whether its PCM or bitstream.
Will also have to check my in game volumes but race BGM is off and race sound effects will be max i think.

Cheers
 
Spagetti69
Odd. Most surround sound users say how fantastic it is.

Haven't heard it through surround myself though.

I agree with redlinezak...on a nice surround system it's obvious when the levels throw a wobbly. The placement of sounds around the room is great and really adds to the gameplay though.

After playing the FWD seasonals a bit more earlier the problem seems almost intermittent...sometimes other cars drowned out my Spoon CR-Z with race exhauast, other times it just got a bit quieter and sometimes it even seemed to behave. After the tunnel and going down the back of the special stage night course seemed to be the worst bits.

Thing is, I think this is an improvement on how it used to be!
 
the message found on car mirrors that reads:
"warning: objects may be closer than they appear"

well, this is all I now "hear"

many people myself included, agree that 2.06 sounds broken.

I have the 7.1 PS3 headset, using default settings, and small theater mode, and firing up the Seasonal event some 2 months ago with the Nordschleife 650pp event, the opponents sound like they are driving over my ears when they are still some ~ 8 car lengths ahead. And they sound weaker when they come closer, and mine fades away when I drive up to someones rear, but not realistically if that was what PD intended. It sounds more game breaking than anything.

doppler seems messed up.
 
7.1/5.1 user Never had this problem, don't get me wrong If i have a stock car going against a tuned car the tune car defiantly sounds louder but I am not experience sound disappearing.
 
Directly after the update, while using my tvs' speakers and living room setting, I had this problem. Then I ran the audio to my stereo, switched to small theatre and turned up the race sound effects. I haven't experienced the problem since. The sound seems quite good to me.
 
Directly after the update, while using my tvs' speakers and living room setting, I had this problem. Then I ran the audio to my stereo, switched to small theatre and turned up the race sound effects. I haven't experienced the problem since. The sound seems quite good to me.

It's probably true this fixes it, but after 2.06 small theatre seems too silent (i have a 5.1), even with SFX at 120.

I changed it to living room yesterday, after trying them all out at max SFX, and with large theater the sound get's even number on my set.
 
Big post (apologies, I probably could summarise it better, but there's really more to be done yet): take it for what it is, and don't be afraid to experiment for yourselves. :)

Anyway: I've found my new preferred settings to be 5.1 (virtualised to stereo headphones) with Large Theatre dynamic range setting, menu music and sounds right up to 100 - 120, with sound effects down at 35 - 45. This seems to work best for me when racing, but is generally a bit quiet in replays.

Now, the 430 PP Seasonals, specifically the Daytona one, have opponents who all have Sports exhausts (at least), which seem to be louder than they were before this update. When in-car (or "bumper"), the sound is fine and my car (the 20V Primera, totally stock) was never fully drowned out, although you could tell those other cars were loud by comparison.
In chase view, or the roof view, there's no chance. In a pack, there's too many cars to be able to distinguish your own car unless it's really distinctive, which the Primera isn't, and one or two can still be distracting when they're that much louder.

I also tried a one-make race at Daytona in the Primera, and the same held true. In roof or chase cam, it was difficult to pick out the sound of my car (even worse now they all sound identical), but in cockpit or on the "bumper", it was fine. Tyre noise is also a big contributor, but that's probably only "realistic" at those speeds. Still, it would be nice to be able to properly hear your own car (glad I only use bumper view :sly:)


With Living Room dynamic range settings, even in the cockpit view, the volume is reduced slightly when you approach another car. That's because two cars are louder than one, and that seems to be enough to trigger the compression. The reduced volume makes it harder to distinguish between sounds, and flat-limiting (which is what it sounds like GT5 is doing) is undesirable given our hearing doesn't have a flat response (this is why hardware limiters, like the Dolby Volume mentioned earlier, are so superior - they often limit in a way that retains the natural feel of the original signal). This "flatness" would probably sound worse on hardware that is not consistent in its frequency production across its operating range of output power (this is where even mid-level headphones are useful), but there is always the possibility it may instead compensate slightly - yet more variation to keep track of.
I also noticed the slight lag in the limiter picking the gain back up again after passing a car. It seems it might have a two-step sensitivity, i.e. a fast-response "layer" and a slow-response "layer". The slow release was very subtle, though, and resulted in a restoration of clarity (mid-highs) to the sound after a few seconds.

* The effect was less pronounced in Small Theatre, and non-evident in Large Theatre, except that auditory masking can give a similar-sounding effect, even if the overall level is left unaltered.
* Somehow, the effect doesn't appear to be as bad with the stereo mix, although the roof and chase cams are probably still too vague.
* I did all of these tests without music in the race. Having music on effectively raises the "noise floor" (in terms of the "signal to noise ratio"; your engine sound being the signal you wish to hear), meaning that when the sound effects are compressed, you'll find it even harder to hear the quieter sounds - a simple fact of how our hearing works.
* I need to test a few more cars, but I thought I'd share what I've found anyway, in case it helps anyone else.



So, opponent cars are seemingly a bit louder (along with sports exhausts being closer in volume now to the semi-race), and that seems to be messing with the dynamic range compression, which presumably wasn't tweaked to suit. I'd recommend you turn it off (i.e. choose Large Theatre), if you can get away with it, and adjust the volume levels to suit; then you could rely on your hardware for dynamic range control (look for volume / level limiting, or possibly some ridiculous term spawned of some marketing department), which is almost certain to be better at it.
Or, like I've chosen to (for now...), you could just leave it "open"; it works well for headphones, and probably would for most home theatre systems, too.

Not only are your audio settings important, but the different views now, once more, present vastly different listening experiences, so we need to bear that in mind, too.
Thankfully, it should be an easy fix for PD, but I suspect an overhaul of their "compression" method would be required in the long run, preferably by changing the fundamental volumes of the different objects in the game by way of "profiles" (or how they do between patches), rather than trying to simply compress the output stream.
 
I'd recommend you turn it off (i.e. choose Large Theatre), if you can get away with it, and adjust the volume levels to suit; then you could rely on your hardware for dynamic range control (look for volume / level limiting, or possibly some ridiculous term spawned of some marketing department), which is almost certain to be better at it.
Or, like I've chosen to (for now...), you could just leave it "open"; it works well for headphones, and probably would for most home theatre systems, too.

Unfortunately my £2000 Denon amp doesn't do dynamic range compression with DTS bitstreams. But a good suggestion that was worth looking into anyway.:) It can do compression with Dolby I think.....I gather most amps are the same there?

I might be able fudge it in an equilizer mode but they all sound a bit weird (like stadium effects and stuff) and large theatre in GT5 sounds like it exaggerates the dynamic range too much.....when you've a couple of Kw of class A amps driving £4k of B&W speakers and a nice big Velodyne sub large theatre just sounds silly. After trying it I figured large theatre was more likely designed with a relatively gutless sub-sat setup like my old Sony home cinema in mind rather than the kind of home theatres that don't need a "bass boost" button.

Somebody needs to send PD round to the hifi shop I reckon:sly: Wonder what kind of systems they test and develop with?
 
I noticed this 'sound issue' only once I disable BGM in race. When I ran with BGM I never experienced this - my settings are 5.1, PS3 straight to Sony receiver HDMI; Dynamic range - small theater. I was driving a GT500 race (Tom's Supra) on the Nurb. I had to get like 200 feet in front of the car before my car's sounds came back to normal.

I'm going to enable BGM and see if it goes away again.
 
Tested some more, with the new seasonals. Used both sports and semi racing exhausts. Didn't have any problems. Be it in front or behind others, I can clearly hear my car. With normal exhaust, the sound is quieter, as I would expect it to be.

Next, I'll try some racing cars. DTM or JGTC.
 
What i am noticing now is that when i am running very close to another car i basically cannot hear any engine noise from either car?
Poliphony Digital,

Introducing Sound Phase Cancellation



one of the most obvious mistakes of amateur sound engineers. Congratulations.
 
Did some more testing. Nothing conclusive yet.

But as much as I don't have this problem during racing, I've noticed it happens to some extent during replays. I can still hear my car, but not as loud as before among the other cars.
 
I hadn't played GT much for a while, but did some testing last night. Switching to "small theatre" from "living room" seems to have mostly fixed the problem for me. I have a basic stereo setup using component audio so this should be the wrong setting for me. But it worked.

Otherwise, the sound is a bit quieter overall but the cancellation problem isn't much of a problem anymore. Some cars seem to be a lot quieter than others after the patch. Anyway I cranked the volume up to 120% and it's playable again for me.
 
smrtb0mb
I hadn't played GT much for a while, but did some testing last night. Switching to "small theatre" from "living room" seems to have mostly fixed the problem for me. I have a basic stereo setup using component audio so this should be the wrong setting for me. But it worked.

Otherwise, the sound is a bit quieter overall but the cancellation problem isn't much of a problem anymore. Some cars seem to be a lot quieter than others after the patch. Anyway I cranked the volume up to 120% and it's playable again for me.

The small theatre option seems to reduce range compression as already stated, and it's providing a better experience for most users with a 2.0 or 2.1 setup. I have yet to try the large theatre option.
 
I hadn't played GT much for a while, but did some testing last night. Switching to "small theatre" from "living room" seems to have mostly fixed the problem for me. I have a basic stereo setup using component audio so this should be the wrong setting for me. But it worked.

Otherwise, the sound is a bit quieter overall but the cancellation problem isn't much of a problem anymore. Some cars seem to be a lot quieter than others after the patch. Anyway I cranked the volume up to 120% and it's playable again for me.

It's really not the wrong setting at all, in fact it's probably ideal! I don't know why the labels are what they are, they should not reference hardware / listening environments at all, but simply state how much they reduce the dynamic range, and then explain what that actually means in the manual; i.e. they should be called: High, Low, None (for Living Room, Small and Large Theatre respectively.)

High levels of dynamic range compression are only required on the lowliest of hardware, like a mobile phone or something, where they simply cannot reproduce the range of differences in loudness required, consistently across all frequencies. Anything that has both the responsiveness for stable low volumes (clear speech in normal listening) and the room to move for high volumes (action movies, music), i.e. without creating distortion, will not need such extreme flattening of the sound.

Basically, everyone should compare the two settings to see which works best for them. Large Theatre is a little more extreme, but it works for some people, and it's great if you have dynamic range compression on your receiver / whatever, because it's likely to be more sophisticated.
 
Griffith500
It's really not the wrong setting at all, in fact it's probably ideal! I don't know why the labels are what they are, they should not reference hardware / listening environments at all, but simply state how much they reduce the dynamic range, and then explain what that actually means in the manual; i.e. they should be called: High, Low, None (for Living Room, Small and Large Theatre respectively.)

High levels of dynamic range compression are only required on the lowliest of hardware, like a mobile phone or something, where they simply cannot reproduce the range of differences in loudness required, consistently across all frequencies. Anything that has both the responsiveness for stable low volumes (clear speech in normal listening) and the room to move for high volumes (action movies, music), i.e. without creating distortion, will not need such extreme flattening of the sound.

Basically, everyone should compare the two settings to see which works best for them. Large Theatre is a little more extreme, but it works for some people, and it's great if you have dynamic range compression on your receiver / whatever, because it's likely to be more sophisticated.

Just out of curiosity, are you a sound engineer?
 
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