Engine Swaps That Don't Make Sense

[TT92]

I am surprised this has not already been talked about about so I thought I would start.

It is something that has been troubling me as someone that has spent a long time in the automotive industry and has worked on a lot of these cars for real.

First up here is a snippet from the official list:

Toyota

• 2JZ-GTE-Supra (Toyota Supra '97)
  • Nissan Silvia S15 Spec R '02 (!)
  • Subaru BRZ S '21
  • Toyota GR86 RZ '21
  • Toyota GR Yaris '20

Nissan Silva, not an issue so jump down to the Yaris. I want to start off by saying categorically "It don't Fit!" You can't take out a small inline 3 cylinder engine and bolt in an inline 6cylinder of over twice the length. The engine also adds 200kg in weight. So regardless of other dimensions there will be an extra 3 cylinders rubbing against a wheel and coming out the through the RHS guard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyot...RIS_RZ"High_performance"_(3BA-GXPA16)_(8).jpg Just look at the pic and imagine the engine twice as long?

Next GR86/BRZ. Here is also a real good one as they have a 4 cylinder boxer engine fitted as OE so it is only 2 cylinders long so putting the 2JZ in it now extends 4 cylinders further forward totally screwing weight distribution. Not to mention it is now taller and should be higher than the bonnet. Maybe extend the engine rewards and incorporating a power bulge in the bonnet might (???) fit but I see no evidence that this is what happens in the game.

A better (doable) conversion would be 13B rotary for the Yaris and perhaps a 26B for the others ;-) Or use Porsche 6 cylinder boxer engines or even more radical Subaru actually made one themselves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_six-cylinder_engines

Honda

• K20C1-Civic-'20 (Honda Civic Type R '20)
  • Honda Civic (EK) Type R '98
  • Honda Integra (DC2) Type R '98
  • Mini Cooper S '65

First two no issues at all and is a great idea. Now the Mini on the other hand!

This BMC engine was designed with an integral gearbox that formed the sump and the drive was through drop down reduction gears built into the block behind the clutch. The engine bay is as wide (only just) as the motor so a Honda engine that has the gearbox mounted to one side will not fit. Presumably the gurus at PD envisioned a specially made underslung gear box for the Civic engine. Doable BUT why would you? And even then, without actually measuring the difference in overall length I am not sure the K20C1 would still fit. There really is not a lot of room inside a Mini engine bay and I still have the scars to prove it ;-)

A lot of the other swaps seem quite reasonable. Not sure about the GTR

And before anyone says "Don't be concerned, it's only a game." I have thought about this already and decided with my trusty Light Sabre I can make anything fit :-)) And it's not a joke, back in the early days a Gas Axe (acetylene cutting torch) was used regularly to make things fit :-)

And I am not sure about this one either.

VR38DETT-GT-R-Nismo (Nissan GT-R NISMO '17)

• Lancia Delta HF Integrale '91 (!!

What do you think?

 

[XSquareStickIt]

I haven't swapped engines in real life, but a small detail that bugs me a bit is that all engine swaps increase the mass of the car. Wish we could swap in smaller, lighter engines into cars instead of always swapping to something larger.

Also, while the engines increase mass, they oddly don't disturb the weight distribution of the car. Dropping a 4 Rotor into an FD RX-7 increases its mass but preserves its 50:50 weight distribution. Wish they'd take these things into account.

 

[sixty4half]

I haven't swapped engines in real life, but a small detail that bugs me a bit is that all engine swaps increase the mass of the car. Wish we could swap in smaller, lighter engines into cars instead of always swapping to something larger.

Also, while the engines increase mass, they oddly don't disturb the weight distribution of the car. Dropping a 4 Rotor into an FD RX-7 increases its mass but preserves its 50:50 weight distribution. Wish they'd take these things into account.

Why in god's green earth would you put a smaller engine in a car? But yeah, your 2nd point makes sense

 

[BangsMcCoy]

While I totally agree some, hell, most engine swaps in this game are unrealistic, I also chalk it up to them (PD) having a bit of fun. There’s always some whacky, odd, off the wall stuff in GT games and I’ve always just assumed the guys making the games were just having some fun. Stuff like that does seem to be bothersome to people in a game that strives and prides itself on trying to be realistic though. This type of thing is totally expected in something like NFS games, but it’s as I said earlier, just whacky or odd to incorporate into a game like this. At the end of the day though it doesn’t bother me at all as it’s fun to experiment and think about While relaxing and playing the game.
Who knows, maybe someday you’ll actually see some crazy shop build a 2JZ powered Yaris or stuff a K20 into a classic Mini.

Why in god's green earth would you put a smaller engine in a car? But yeah, your 2nd point makes sense

Smaller doesn’t always mean worse or even lower power output.
While you might not personally agree with it, a good example would be to pull an old, heavy, worn out V8 and replace it with a smaller, lighter, turbocharged 4 cylinder or straight 6 engine that puts out just as much, if not more HP than the V8 did.
Ford built and sold the SVT Mustang in the heyday of the 5.0.
Yes, you could swap in a new more powerful V8, but maybe, just maybe you want better fuel efficiency, better power to weight ratio and the sweet sound of an open BOV? Or maybe you just like buying less oil and spark plugs? lol

 

[miata13B]

Smaller doesn’t always mean worse or even lower power output.
While you might not personally agree with it, a good example would be to pull an old, heavy, worn out V8 and replace it with a smaller, lighter, turbocharged 4 cylinder or straight 6 engine that puts out just as much, if not more HP than the V8 did.
Ford built and sold the SVT Mustang in the heyday of the 5.0.
Yes, you could swap in a new more powerful V8, but maybe, just maybe you want better fuel efficiency, better power to weight ratio and the sweet sound of an open BOV? Or maybe you just like buying less oil and spark plugs? lol

Or run endurance racing and looking to find a better efficiency out of your power plant that will extend the range while not compromising the power output too much.

We have been trying to figure out a proper engine replacement for our Miata for years and we were so centered on a TDI engine. That ended up not working in a fashion to adhere to the rules by the governing body of Motorsports.

We have debated a ton of engines including turbocharged 1.3 engines and up. Our goal originally was to gain some power over the 1.6 we have and lighten the car up. We just did not want to go with a custom fuel cell because it would take away from the functionality of our endurance/training car by rendering the passenger side useless.

 

[LSFDRX]

No LS/Chevy based V8 swap into FD RX7 and so many others not being possible is pretty crazy considering it's one of the most swappable and prolific mods done in the real world.

 

[Nuschel01]

But a 2JZ GR Yaris and Minis with Honda engines exist?

 

[hyperspeed980]

I haven't swapped engines in real life, but a small detail that bugs me a bit is that all engine swaps increase the mass of the car. Wish we could swap in smaller, lighter engines into cars instead of always swapping to something larger.

Also, while the engines increase mass, they oddly don't disturb the weight distribution of the car. Dropping a 4 Rotor into an FD RX-7 increases its mass but preserves its 50:50 weight distribution. Wish they'd take these things into account.

I think the Coyote engine makes the Mach 1 lighter.

 

[Ryan Dungey]

2JZ swapped Yaris actually exists in real life

 

[05XR8]

I haven't swapped engines in real life, but a small detail that bugs me a bit is that all engine swaps increase the mass of the car. Wish we could swap in smaller, lighter engines into cars instead of always swapping to something larger.

Also, while the engines increase mass, they oddly don't disturb the weight distribution of the car. Dropping a 4 Rotor into an FD RX-7 increases its mass but preserves its 50:50 weight distribution. Wish they'd take these things into account.

The LS9 actually lightens the T/A.

About 350 bhp. A little less.

Edit: Oh gosh. Not even.
View attachment 1170656

Ahh, much better now. Oh snaps! It even the lightened the car further.
View attachment 1170657

 

[unfairlane]

I`ve swapped a few myself and have seen both thinkable and more unthinkable engineswaps done by wery skilled carguys.
Wondering if any swap is doable? Youtube it. One of my favs is a 60`s Ford 289/302 V8 replacing the backseat in a early 60`s VW beetle. Like a mini GT40.

Honda engines in Minis is no match for a seasoned gearhead:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mini+with+honda+vtec+engine

On the other side, I see the OP`s point here. GT7`s version of engineswapping is lame. So wery limited, too few engine-choises, way to few swappable cars and then on top of that we cannot upgrade/tune tirewidth to engineoutput & carbalance.

 

[Oi Oi JC]

Nissan Silva, not an issue so jump down to the Yaris. I want to start off by saying categorically "It don't Fit!" You can't take out a small inline 3 cylinder engine and bolt in an inline 6cylinder of over twice the length. The engine also adds 200kg in weight. So regardless of other dimensions there will be an extra 3 cylinders rubbing against a wheel and coming out the through the RHS guard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyot...RIS_RZ"High_performance"_(3BA-GXPA16)_(8).jpg Just look at the pic and imagine the engine twice as long?

Erm...............

Now the Mini on the other hand!

This BMC engine was designed with an integral gearbox that formed the sump and the drive was through drop down reduction gears built into the block behind the clutch. The engine bay is as wide (only just) as the motor so a Honda engine that has the gearbox mounted to one side will not fit. Presumably the gurus at PD envisioned a specially made underslung gear box for the Civic engine. Doable BUT why would you? And even then, without actually measuring the difference in overall length I am not sure the K20C1 would still fit. There really is not a lot of room inside a Mini engine bay and I still have the scars to prove it ;-)

Erm.......

Next GR86/BRZ. Here is also a real good one as they have a 4 cylinder boxer engine fitted as OE so it is only 2 cylinders long so putting the 2JZ in it now extends 4 cylinders further forward totally screwing weight distribution. Not to mention it is now taller and should be higher than the bonnet. Maybe extend the engine rewards and incorporating a power bulge in the bonnet might (???) fit but I see no evidence that this is what happens in the game.

Erm.........

 

[Sunzi]

Erm...............




Erm.......






Erm.........

Ooft the yellow one!

 

[Oi Oi JC]

 

[TT92]

Erm...............




Erm.......




Erm.........

I am impressed you found these, well done.

Starting with last first, as predicted they moved the engine rearwards and fitted a bonnet scoop on the black one and a bulge on the green one. But not in GT7 to get it to fit.

The Yaris is longitudinal and looks to be RWD only but GT7 still has it 4WD.

And the Mini is clearly wider than the one in GT7 as well. Most people really don't realise what a truly small car the original Mini is and the abysmal lack of room under the bonnet. I did like this video and it quite clearly shows how wide the front of the car needed to be to accommodate the Honda engine. Just look at the width of the flared guards. Now compare that to a GT7 Mini non-wide body that has the engine swapped. See my point?

My point still is, the way GT7 presents the swaps is not realistic. I mean, people put V10 Viper engines in road going motorbikes. So basically, as I said, get out the gas axe and you will make anything fit BUT it is not representative in GT7 the way Kaz has done it.

This is turning into a great discussion :-)

 

[sparkytooth]

I am surprised this has not already been talked about about so I thought I would start.

It is something that has been troubling me as someone that has spent a long time in the automotive industry and has worked on a lot of these cars for real.

First up here is a snippet from the official list:

Toyota

• 2JZ-GTE-Supra (Toyota Supra '97)
  • Nissan Silvia S15 Spec R '02 (!)
  • Subaru BRZ S '21
  • Toyota GR86 RZ '21
  • Toyota GR Yaris '20

Nissan Silva, not an issue so jump down to the Yaris. I want to start off by saying categorically "It don't Fit!" You can't take out a small inline 3 cylinder engine and bolt in an inline 6cylinder of over twice the length. The engine also adds 200kg in weight. So regardless of other dimensions there will be an extra 3 cylinders rubbing against a wheel and coming out the through the RHS guard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_Yaris#/media/File:Toyota_GR_YARIS_RZ"High_performance"(3BA-GXPA16)(8).jpg Just look at the pic and imagine the engine twice as long?

Next GR86/BRZ. Here is also a real good one as they have a 4 cylinder boxer engine fitted as OE so it is only 2 cylinders long so putting the 2JZ in it now extends 4 cylinders further forward totally screwing weight distribution. Not to mention it is now taller and should be higher than the bonnet. Maybe extend the engine rewards and incorporating a power bulge in the bonnet might (???) fit but I see no evidence that this is what happens in the game.

A better (doable) conversion would be 13B rotary for the Yaris and perhaps a 26B for the others ;-) Or use Porsche 6 cylinder boxer engines or even more radical Subaru actually made one themselves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_six-cylinder_engines

Honda

• K20C1-Civic-'20 (Honda Civic Type R '20)
  • Honda Civic (EK) Type R '98
  • Honda Integra (DC2) Type R '98
  • Mini Cooper S '65

First two no issues at all and is a great idea. Now the Mini on the other hand!

This BMC engine was designed with an integral gearbox that formed the sump and the drive was through drop down reduction gears built into the block behind the clutch. The engine bay is as wide (only just) as the motor so a Honda engine that has the gearbox mounted to one side will not fit. Presumably the gurus at PD envisioned a specially made underslung gear box for the Civic engine. Doable BUT why would you? And even then, without actually measuring the difference in overall length I am not sure the K20C1 would still fit. There really is not a lot of room inside a Mini engine bay and I still have the scars to prove it ;-)

A lot of the other swaps seem quite reasonable. Not sure about the GTR

And before anyone says "Don't be concerned, it's only a game." I have thought about this already and decided with my trusty Light Sabre I can make anything fit :-)) And it's not a joke, back in the early days a Gas Axe (acetylene cutting torch) was used regularly to make things fit :-)

And I am not sure about this one either.

VR38DETT-GT-R-Nismo (Nissan GT-R NISMO '17)

• Lancia Delta HF Integrale '91 (!!

What do you think?

Who cares lol

 

[Pedinhuh]

No LS/Chevy based V8 swap into FD RX7 and so many others not being possible is pretty crazy considering it's one of the most swappable and prolific mods done in the real world.

Also a 2JZ swapped A90 Supra...

And I want to point out that now the game has a car(Suzuki VGT) with a Hayabusa engine...I see two potentially DEVILISH swaps possible with the engine, the Mini 65 and the 500F, both are pretty common and relatively easy enough to do.

 

[talhaONE]

I haven't swapped engines in real life, but a small detail that bugs me a bit is that all engine swaps increase the mass of the car. Wish we could swap in smaller, lighter engines into cars instead of always swapping to something larger.

Also, while the engines increase mass, they oddly don't disturb the weight distribution of the car. Dropping a 4 Rotor into an FD RX-7 increases its mass but preserves its 50:50 weight distribution. Wish they'd take these things into account.

Not all swaps increase the weight. Hellcat engine on Challenger R/T decrease weight of the car.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

So when I can put the Coyote engine in the Mach 1 why can't I put it in the De Tomaso Pantera? Same 351C engine

 

[BangsMcCoy]

So when I can put the Coyote engine in the Mach 1 why can't I put it in the De Tomaso Pantera? Same 351C engine

Because the game won’t allow it. The engine swaps in the game aren’t based on real world applications and don’t really make much sense in real world terms.

See the full list of potential/available in game swaps here:

Gran Turismo 7 Engine Swap Compatibility

As you'll be aware by now, GT7 has engine swaps! Yay! 🎉 The feature works by either gifting you an engine through a roulette ticket (rare in general tickets, some engine-specific tickets are available) or as expensive buyable items through the engine swap facility in GT Auto. Only some cars can...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Because the game won’t allow it. The engine swaps in the game aren’t based on real world applications and don’t really make much sense in real world terms.

See the full list of potential/available in game swaps here:

Gran Turismo 7 Engine Swap Compatibility

As you'll be aware by now, GT7 has engine swaps! Yay! 🎉 The feature works by either gifting you an engine through a roulette ticket (rare in general tickets, some engine-specific tickets are available) or as expensive buyable items through the engine swap facility in GT Auto. Only some cars can...

www.gtplanet.net

I have seen the full list and I do know it's because the game won't let me. I am merely pointing out that it doesn't make any sense
Like not being able to put the 911 engine in the 356 when you can put it in the beetle

 

[BangsMcCoy]

I have seen the full list and I do know it's because the game won't let me. I am merely pointing out that it doesn't make any sense
Like not being able to put the 911 engine in the 356 when you can put it in the beetle

Sorry, you posted it as a question as though you didn’t know so I thought you wanted an answer.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Sorry, you posted it as a question as though you didn’t know so I thought you wanted an answer.

Sorry about me being unclear. I would love an answer from PD.

 

[Famine]

So when I can put the Coyote engine in the Mach 1 why can't I put it in the De Tomaso Pantera? Same 351C engine

Because the game won’t allow it.

The game won't allow it yet. There's 16 possible engines and 25 possible recipients at the moment, up from six and six (well... five and five) at launch. We see roughly four-ish new swaps with each new content update, and occasionally in other updates too.

Of course we have no idea what they are until they're discovered (or dug out of the code with a jailbroken PS4), so the Pantera/Coyote swap might never happen.

The engine swaps in the game aren’t based on real world applications and don’t really make much sense in real world terms.

Aside from the fact they don't swap transmissions (when they really should) and car models don't update to reflect physical changes, there's not really anything that doesn't make sense.

I mean, I know this is a thread for engine swaps that don't make sense and everything, but the two highlighted in the first post are... real world swaps.

I can't think of any VR38DETTs going into Integrales in the real world (though a longitudinal V6 in a bay meant for a transverse four isn't a massive challenge; it'd fit, but who the hell is doing that to something as rare and valuable as that?!), but there are Audi V8-powered W20 MR2s (longitudinally mounted; no idea how a gearbox fits on that though). And W10s and W30s actually.

 

[BangsMcCoy]

Aside from the fact they don't swap transmissions (when they really should) and car models don't update to reflect physical changes, there's not really anything that doesn't make sense.

I mean, I know this is a thread for engine swaps that don't make sense and everything, but the two highlighted in the first post are... real world swaps.

I can't think of any VR38DETTs going into Integrales in the real world (though a longitudinal V6 in a bay meant for a transverse four isn't a massive challenge; it'd fit, but who the hell is doing that to something as rare and valuable as that?!), but there are Audi V8-powered W20 MR2s (longitudinally mounted; no idea how a gearbox fits on that though). And W10s and W30s actually.

That’s pretty much what I meant by “doesn’t make much sense” because if the swaps did make sense in the game they’d allow you to swap the Coyote into the Pantera and also there are swaps in game that while possible in real world are unlikely to be done as you mentioned the VR38DETT into the Integrale. What I was ultimately getting at was the swaps in the game for the most part aren’t ones you’re likely to see or are common in the real world. Some are, but most aren’t.

 

[Famine]

Some are, but most aren’t.

Hmmm.... no. I'd say most are either done regularly or plausible.

The Integrale swap is... possible, I guess - I mean, everything is possible with enough welding, but let's put a line of "not possible without welding" for those swaps that are not regularly done - but not one I can imagine anyone anywhere actually doing. Maybe someone has?

That aside I can't think of anything too nuts. K20 turbo into an EK/DC2 is a bit odd given the values of these cars now (edit: and has indeed been done with a DC2...), but technically not a nightmare (although you will need to swap the gearbox given that it's on the opposite side of the engine and will attempt to drive the wheels backwards in six gears). 2JZ into a BRZ is not particularly outlandish given that there's literally an LS7 V8 in one that's already in the game, and we know the GT86 can take one - and 2JZ GR Yaris has also been done. Quad rotor RX-7 has literally been done in the real world (and wouldn't even be that tricky, generally speaking). V8-powered MX-5s are a dime a dozen. Porsche six-pots into Beetles is a thing -- although it does require cutting through the floor in the rear-seat area to nose the engine cradle in, or leaving the rear deck open (or both). V8 MR2s is a thing (and often Audi ones; V8 A8s are cheap)...

I can't say I've ever heard of a Super GT-engined Tundra, but I also can't imagine it's a drama to fit a 3UZ in a car that already comes with the larger capacity 2UZ... Similarly the Z4 GT3 engine is literally based on the S65 from the M3 it fits into in GT7. The only barriers to these in the real world is getting hold of (and maintaining) the engines and not obliterating noise regulations.

if the swaps did make sense in the game they’d allow you to swap the Coyote into the Pantera

Remember though, we get around four new swap combinations each time there's a content update. That's not necessarily new engines, but new applications for engines - the 2JZ only went into the S15 Silvia originally; the GR86/BRZ and GR Yaris possibilities were added later.

It's by no means definitive that you will never be able to swap the Coyote into the Pantera. We just know it's not one of the current 25 possibilities.

 

[05XR8]

Yeah, waiting for this swap.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

no idea how a gearbox fits on that though

You either mill an adapter to go between the engine and the gearbox or you mill one to go between the gearbox and the bell housing

 

[Nuschel01]

[...]

He meant it space wise I think.

 

[Famine]

He meant it space wise I think.

Yeah: the R8's transaxle is three feet long.