Engine Thread: Week 4 (High-Test on leave)

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YSSMAN

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I almost forgot about this weeks engine thread. High-Test is supposed to be in France this week, so he asked me to take over. So here it is:

Often times when we are debating in these forums, the same models (when it comes to engines) pop up time and time again. Generally speaking, it usually comes down to the GM/Chevrolet small-block V8 and the Nissan RB26DETT, but this time, I want to do something different. We aren't going for high-performance necessiarily, I want to go for big power in those big cars we all know and love.

(BTW: What is it with me an big cars this week?)

So then the question becomes what big engine would you consider to be the best to be propelling the world-class sedans and Gran Turismo cars out there today?

The VAG W12? The Mercedes-Benz 6.0L V12 Twin Turbo? Ferrari's 5.7L V12? I doubt that I could create a poll that could cover all of the choises, so I leave it up to you folks to nominate and debate.

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My choise is unquestionably the Mercedes-Benz/AMG 6.0L Twin-Turbocharged V12 that powers the 65-series AMG models. With more than 600 BHP and more than 730 lb-ft or torque on tap, it truely is "God's own engine" as Car and Driver has refered to it so many times.

The obsurd power ratings that engine produces puts it into a class where only the Veyron's 16-cylinder monster overshadows it, but were talking about a price difference of more than a million dollars here.

The only other engine that I can think of that was that outrageously powerful in it's time was indeed the Dusenberg supercharged Straight-8 that was available in the old SJ that packed a whopping 320 BHP and could top out at 135 MPH. Mind you, that was in 1932...
 
I too have to say the MB 6.0 Bi turbo V12. That thing has enough torque to spin the earth. It's truely amazing, and the sound, oh my that sound. It's like they mixed a little holy crap with a dash of GOD DAMN! and that's the engine they got.

As for how it stacks up to the Veyron, well obviously it doesn't and while the Veryron as a car is a true work of art of the likes we will never see agian in our lifetime the engine is fairly basic in idea. To me the real beauty of that car is not in the engine, but the rest of it.
 
I would agree on the Bugatti!

I think it is amazing how much Mercedes was able to make their V12 engines sound like the old WWII Spitfires. Jeremy Clarkson had pointed it out so many times, and I had seen/herd some clips of the cars themselves, but when you hear it in person, it is unreal!

I really do think the Mercedes V12 is going to sit at the top of my list for quite some time. It is going to come down to how long it will take GM/Cadillac to get the V12 or V16 we have been "promised" up and running. If they can get together a serious engine, it would be the Americans who could boost the power (naturally aspirated of course) beyond what the Mercedes units could create.
 
Cant go wrong with big engines, the Bugati 8L 18 cyclinder quad turbocharged. But, on the other hand, I like the Zonda 7.3. Pure power from an NA V12

For my pic on an asperated engine is a toss up between the MB TT V12 and the SLR supercharged V8

YSSMN was right, there are LOADS of engines that are going to be mentioned

just my 2 cents on it
 
I too choose the 7.3l AMG V12. A close second is the AMG 6L twin turbo series engine. Good god the torque is just insane...so much torque it can turn the Earth the other direction!
 
...Hey, the more mentions the better. Atleast with this one, it won't come down to the American V8 and a Japanese I6...

Its kinda sad that there really arent any big American engines to include in this list. Dodge has their V10s in the Ram and in the Viper, but they aren't nearly as refined as what you would find their cousins, and the same can be said of the Ford V12 that sees duty in their heavy-duty F-series pickups as well.

I thought about nominating the Aston V12s, but being that the new version that sees duty in the DB9 is essentally two Duratec V6s bolted together, they aren't something of pure innovation like the Mercedes unit. Added to that, they lack the absolute power that the Mercedes unit commands.

I wonder if the Luftwaffe could have used the 6.0L TT V12 to invade Poland? (lol)
 
Nice engine topic, I will have to think about it.

I curious how much power can be pumped reliably out of a Bugatti 8.0L W16 with tuning. Rumour has it they are making a 1200hp+ version, I wonder how much it can handle.
 
YSSMAN
...Hey, the more mentions the better. Atleast with this one, it won't come down to the American V8 and a Japanese I6...

Its kinda sad that there really arent any big American engines to include in this list. Dodge has their V10s in the Ram and in the Viper, but they aren't nearly as refined as what you would find their cousins, and the same can be said of the Ford V12 that sees duty in their heavy-duty F-series pickups as well.

I thought about nominating the Aston V12s, but being that the new version that sees duty in the DB9 is essentally two Duratec V6s bolted together, they aren't something of pure innovation like the Mercedes unit. Added to that, they lack the absolute power that the Mercedes unit commands.

I wonder if the Luftwaffe could have used the 6.0L TT V12 to invade Poland? (lol)
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I think it's too bad that the Viper V10 hasn't been really developed. Sure they punched it out a little to make 500+hp but with some good messaging and some real advanvement in technology that thing could easily sit atop the heap. Maybe the brass at Stuggart could allow a few of the AMG guys to sneak over to Michigan for a few months to give the Viper V10 a thorough going over. That should make for an engine that is not only a marvel of technology but really stupid fun to drive. :)

I think I speak for everyone who isn't a Japanese fanboy when I say thank god we won't have to hear the I6 discussion. They are great engines but they are no where in the league we are discussing here. I don't care how much some guys turbo supra is putting out at the wheels it still doesn't compare to these big monster of an engine that is going into modern supercars.

Finally, if I were in poland and I heard the Luftwaffe coming with AMG V12s I would surrender and ask to join the Luftwaffe.
 
VIPERGTSR01
Nice engine topic, I will have to think about it.

I curious how much power can be pumped reliably out of a Bugatti 8.0L W16 with tuning. Rumour has it they are making a 1200hp+ version, I wonder how much it can handle.
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I think we still need to see how reliable the 1001hp version is. The car is very new still and who knows how well it will hold up or if anyone will really drive them. Damn rich people and their collector cars.

Also according to Top Gear VW is losing some ungodly amount of money on every car they sell so I can't see them doing a hi-po version of it which would cost more R and D money and still lose money on every car they sell. That's why the Veyron is truely a once in a lifetime thing. The car makes no sense for the company to make other then the fact that they want to show the world they can. So they did.
 
IMADreamer
I think it's too bad that the Viper V10 hasn't been really developed. Sure they punched it out a little to make 500+hp but with some good messaging and some real advanvement in technology that thing could easily sit atop the heap. Maybe the brass at Stuggart could allow a few of the AMG guys to sneak over to Michigan for a few months to give the Viper V10 a thorough going over. That should make for an engine that is not only a marvel of technology but really stupid fun to drive. :)
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I think the Viper V10 is plenty fine the way it is, but I can see your point. But, IMO, the engine is suppose to be raw an unforgiving. They are still great engines nonetheless, but it does make you wonder what the next-gen Viper due in 2008 or 2009 will do...

I think I speak for everyone who isn't a Japanese fanboy when I say thank God we won't have to hear the I6 discussion. They are great engines but they are no where in the league we are discussing here. I don't care how much some guys turbo supra is putting out at the wheels it still doesn't compare to these big monster of an engine that is going into modern supercars.
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Origionally when High-Test and I were discussing what was going to be happening, I was origionally going to do something that would involve the small-block Chevy and the RB26DETT just for kicks. That not only would get the American car guys like me going, but we could get plenty of crazy Japanese fanboy stuff to tackle.

Finally, if I were in poland and I heard the Luftwaffe coming with AMG V12s I would surrender and ask to join the Luftwaffe.
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Lol... Unless they find a way to drop modern Spitfire V12s in our cars, the AMG model is going to be the best we've got.
 
YSSMAN
Origionally when High-Test and I were discussing what was going to be happening, I was origionally going to do something that would involve the small-block Chevy and the RB26DETT just for kicks. That not only would get the American car guys like me going, but we could get plenty of crazy Japanese fanboy stuff to tackle.
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Thats the part that I originally was unsure about these engine threads, I don't think much good would come out of it. There is plenty of that sort of thing going on everywhere, I don't see why another thread needs to be made to egg it on.

I think engine discussions are great, but creating debates on sensitive subjects due to strong bias's 'for kicks' is not interesting to me.
 
IMADreamer
I think we still need to see how reliable the 1001hp version is. The car is very new still and who knows how well it will hold up or if anyone will really drive them. Damn rich people and their collector cars.

Also according to Top Gear VW is losing some ungodly amount of money on every car they sell so I can't see them doing a hi-po version of it which would cost more R and D money and still lose money on every car they sell. That's why the Veyron is truely a once in a lifetime thing. The car makes no sense for the company to make other then the fact that they want to show the world they can. So they did.
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They will make that money back. I think VW are just going to truly push the boundries with that car to see how far it can go, and in turn they will learn lots about making engines/cars.
 
So what VAG "super-engine" will have a more lasting effect on the large luxury cars? The W16 quad-turbo or the W12 (N/A and Turbo)?
 
Nice job! You did better in this one than I have in the past three! :dopey:


I'd have to say the MB Twin turbo V12. Just because it's a monster, and it keeps an S600 with it's 4500+ lbs of girth up with a much lighter porsche easily.

I'm wasted. The flight back was really damn long..... (I've only been home an hour)
 
Wow, I didn't even see that you were back. Did you enjoy the mimes in Paris?
 
Well, I think a few engines have gone completely unnoticed;

The chevy durateck, all sizes(sp?)
Chevy Duramax 7.7L
Ford powerstroke 7.3L
And the dodge 5.9L cummings

The deisels deserve more credit if you ask me....
 
Duratec is a Ford engine, but no problems there. I think you meant Vortec, so I know what you mean.

I would agree on the diesel portion however, as there are some larger models that are commendable for their higher outputs both in horsepower in torque. Top mentions in that class would most certainly be the VAG V10 TDI that sees duty in the Phaeton and Touareg along with their V8 TDI that is available in the Audi A8 as well.

But being that this is about the full-power luxury liners, diesel plays such a small role in their powerplants. As far as I know, Audi/VW and Mercedes are some of the only to play with diesel power extensively in their luxury cars, and I presume BMW does as well.
 
YSSMAN
Wow, I didn't even see that you were back. Did you enjoy the mimes in Paris?
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Nope, no mimes.. I was only in Paris two days. THen we went to Dinard, Tours, and then Nice.
 
Its got to be the old Rolls Royce 6.75 V8 that powered Rolls 7 Bentleys for decades (1959-recently)
 
I say that VAG's 5l V10 twinturbodiesel is a good nominee from VAG's part. 313bhp and 750 nm can't go wrong. And it is quite possible that Lamborghini will bring out a Gallardo powered by this engine. They've tested it already.
 

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