Enough with the optical

  • Thread starter Nismo_GTR
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JDM'er
They sould add Bodykits it keeps the Ricers happy and if you don't like them don't fit them simple as that.
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Ricers can't even play GT because the physics are too realistic for them and there are no blurry visuals once you get to above 100mph. I've played NFS:U and I hate the physics. I corner like in GT but I end up head on into a wall. And in drift mode the cars drift far too easy.
 
My opinion on this matter is this…

I want to be able to mod a car from top to bottom so that it really IS my car and not some other knock off that anyone can buy on day 534(what ever) of the used car cycle. I want to be able to paint my cars completely. I want to be able to add various kits to various cars and have them look unique and race ready. That being said:

I also would very much like to have a “learning” curve. If you lower your ride all the way and add a super low body kit to the car without proper suspension consideration, you bottom out and/or rip that part right off your car (which you now have to buy again as a tax on the stupid) and/or also suffer from various performance problems, i.e. you get tires that are too big for the wheel wells, you get tire rub which alters how the car drives, wears tires/blow outs, starts fires. You don’t add any down force components to the front of the car, you get what happened to the Mercedes GTR at LaMans (I’m pretty sure that’s where it was, where it flipped end over end?). Make it as real as possible… Because in the end, just because you laugh at a ricer that added parts to their cars that are in bad taste, or useless, you wouldn’t do it if it were like one of these http://www.evosport.com/ cars, now would you? Why? The body mods do nothing positive for the car other then make them look “cooler”.

Basically I want to be able to make a car that’s all bling and no zing if I wanted to (Not that I would, but it should be an option, after all, they have FF cars, and I don’t see much use in them either for serious racing, but we have them). I also want to be able to make a car that is super fast and super unique as well if I put enough time and creative energy into it as well.
 
Well, FFWD (front-engine, front-wheel drive) can be entered in touring cars and rally. There is no such thing as a specific drivetrain not having any use for serious racing. FFWD cars aren't favored in sports car racing disciplines, but can be utilized in a number of racing events. I just hate to keep saying that these cars are only good for "ricing" up. It's obvious that FWD isn't a sports car driver's drivetrain, but the cars aren't THAT bad in which they are good for nothing. If people race them and do fairly well with them, then anyone can be able to mod one up to go racing with.

It seems pretty obvious that many of us want to see Racing Modifications return, and for good reason. I always say that Racing Modifications "complete the look." I think every car capable of body modifications should have some sort of body modification available. I can go back to my Aston Martin DB9 example. Extensive modification of the opticals means that I basically want to turn an Aston Martin Db9 into an Aston Martin DBR9 if I wanted to. Stages of modificaiton would be nice to look into. The first stage would be the car looking pretty much in stock trim, just lower with lighter body work as well as a fixed racing wing. A second stage is more aggressive in which the car takes a meaner form with modifications all around. The third stage would likely be taking a regular car and coming off with a spectacular silhouette race car complete with enhanced body work and wider bodywork to sport bigger tires. The fourth stage would be the highest level which is the same as Stage 3, only that the body work is even more aggressive and the car takes a much different form which screams all-out race car. If a car doesn't have a package for more aggressive bodywork, then stages 3 and 4 are ignored. It would also be a great idea to have the car painted in a certain base color if you choose. That way, you won't have to worry about picking out a paint scheme you don't like but have to choose anyways.

I have an extra idea for the points I came across in the previous paragraph, and I'll talk about it in the future.
 
I can see your points working, but again, not adding that individual flair that I think would really make the online aspect of this game something to behold... Individual body parts and paint schemes are needed to attain, at least what I'm looking for as far as "personal satisfaction" with a car model. I can see the gradual stages being used, like it was in GT1, where stage 4 weight reduction resulted in a race model... It would be great to see that thing again, but I think to give the most gamers what they want, the option of a fully custom body is how they'd have to go... It's as Isaid before, if you don't want to rice up your car you don't have to. But if you want to, it's there for your to tinker with to your heart's content...
 
High-quality models. They fit perfectly into Kaz' taste.

rice-03-05-31-1.jpg


celica.jpg


g37p10.jpg


g39p08.jpg
 
Yes, they're all pretty atrocious... The problem with rice models like this is that we've seen sooooo many bad images of them, that we forget that they can be very cool if done by pros... How many times have any of you out there laughed at the final product off of "Pimp My Ride"? Or from Overhaulin'? I'd venture not many times... And in reality, all of the cars that are on those shows are pro job ricers... Call em customs, call em what ever you want... I'd prefer to lean towards models that look more like those from PMR or Overhaulin', then from Laugh At Rice... Remember that it would be a computer making and fitting the mods, versus some white guy, thinking he's black, in his back yard, spending a few hundred dollars and some duct-tape to make the things fit onto their Ford Tempos, Honda Civics, and any of this sort of thing... More like Kleemann and Breyton, less like Autopro or what have you...
 
Canadian Speed
Yes, they're all pretty atrocious... The problem with rice models like this is that we've seen sooooo many bad images of them, that we forget that they can be very cool if done by pros... How many times have any of you out there laughed at the final product off of "Pimp My Ride"? Or from Overhaulin'? I'd venture not many times... And in reality, all of the cars that are on those shows are pro job ricers... Call em customs, call em what ever you want... I'd prefer to lean towards models that look more like those from PMR or Overhaulin', then from Laugh At Rice... Remember that it would be a computer making and fitting the mods, versus some white guy, thinking he's black, in his back yard, spending a few hundred dollars and some duct-tape to make the things fit onto their Ford Tempos, Honda Civics, and any of this sort of thing... More like Kleemann and Breyton, less like Autopro or what have you...
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Sorry, pal. I just can't stand with those PMR stuff.

Come on. Insert a 3 cubic cm aquarium near the gearbox with a LIVE FISH inside it? Cruelty against animals is not allowed in my world.

And in overhauling. Is so easy for those guys just to throw it all away and buy the same old new engines and brakes.

Ok then, overhaul a LADA 2101 with a rare engine with a rare gearbox with a limited edition fuel tank.

No parts replacement allowed. Get that Fiat-124 engine with highly customized piston measurements and make new pistons.

No stripes, no large tires, no abundant replacement parts that you can find in any north-american store.

BE a MAN. FORGE the new parts. If the wheel has handwarming devices, make a new one of the original failed.

Sure. There are cars produced by Overhaulin' that are just very very very nice pieces of art to admire.
 
/\/\/\ Sorry man, not getting it. How does that change what I said. I'm basically saying that mods are mods... There are good mods, like those I mentioned and that can be seen at the couple of links I provided earlier. And then there are the stupid and bad ones as seen in the post with the pictures. But simply saying "Body mods are bad" is pretty general and exactly what we have now... Which isn't bad, but could be better... Like in Forza. Check out Kleemann and Breyton to see what kind of stuff I'd like to see done. Subtle, but amazing none the less... You can't deny it.
 
Well, I probably didn't mean stages... I meant more like levels. Something like Dimitrov mentioned with Post #35. And how do these horrid tuner cars fit Kazunori Yamauchi's tastes? Just because he came off with some tuner cars doesn't mean that these cars are his style. Just because he came off with adding wings to cars doesn't mean the same thing either. I think that the modding crowd is as much of the automotive culture as anyone who fancies classic collector cars. Speed Channel show "Car Crazy" truly highlights on a true love of automobiles. The next-to-last segment usually looks at the next generation of car guys (considered "nxt generation"), and that's where I had a brand new look on tuner cars.

The Trial Celica in GT4 was a pretty nice car when I used it to win at Costa di Amalfi a few times. The car has some power to it. It almost felt like a race car when I first used it. The now-defunct Celica's latest variant was that racy model which was used in the Toyota Pro Celebrity Race a number of years during the latest Celica designs. Now, the Scion tC is the new Celica. It is an awesome car that I would have liked to have seen in GT4. I'd make it one of my own touring cars much like my 2003 Honda Accord in GT4. A nicer variety of nimble tuned cars would make things more interesting. The hands-down best tuner car (my view anyways) is the Honda S2000 GT1, which may as well be its own race car. Take a look at some real-life pictures of this bad boy here: { http://blog.gtroc.com/dino/2005/05/amuse_s2000_gt1.html }. Of course, I'd prefer that silver color it also comes in. There's also the sports car type's favorite color- black. It has a convertible top, but it isn't used in GT4. That site even includes the Amuse S2000 GT1 racing Tsukuba Wet in GT4.

Don't count out all of them. There are still interesting models to be had.
 
Canadian Speed
/\/\/\ Sorry man, not getting it. How does that change what I said. I'm basically saying that mods are mods... There are good mods, like those I mentioned and that can be seen at the couple of links I provided earlier. And then there are the stupid and bad ones as seen in the post with the pictures. But simply saying "Body mods are bad" is pretty general and exactly what we have now... Which isn't bad, but could be better... Like in Forza. Check out Kleemann and Breyton to see what kind of stuff I'd like to see done. Subtle, but amazing none the less... You can't deny it.
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Nononono, my friend. I was reading the posts and I have the strong feeling that I am being severely misunderstood.

I think body kits that can transform your car into a racing car (the good old racing modification), thus adding those nice DTM spoilers are OK.

What I don't think it's ok are those horrendous pictures posted by me. You don't need to transform your car into a Gundam Wing.

There are serious body modification, that fits the spirit of racing. And when I mean racing, I mean racing it just like in official competitions. The FIA or <insert your country federation of automobiles here> way.

Now one thing that some great volume of users here are defending is the bulk street racing. It is illegal and boring and only in games there are chicks with v12-sized boobs that are PhD in mechanics.

Everyone here has full rights and priviledges to endorse their own opinions, I know. But some guys seems to try to transform every NICE game (the best in my 20 years of gaming) into a candy package.

Note the difference into those neon/stickers/cosmetic/blowers/plasma screen into intercooler and this:

Prologue%20Hairpin_small.JPG


This is beautiful! Imagine running with other 19 cars into a Abarth Formula of something similar. This car is way more similar to an official competition pattern than the others of Laugh@Ricer.

OT.jpg


This yellow one is even better. It breathes racing, you have professional racers inside it, not some 18yo kid with air suspension and 3 times its size clothing.

500x333.aspx


Look at these VWs!!! My racing-fan-heart (pumping racing blood since 82 for F1, por example) gets accelerated just imaginating HOW GOOD would Gran Turismo would be if HUNDREDS of these competitions were available. To Hell with Ferrari. I want THIS kind of fun. This is, in my humble opinion, what Gran Turismo is.


Some Opel (this car recieved the name of Chevrolet Chevette in my country)
300px-Saxony_rally_racing_Opel_Kadett_C_53_(aka).jpg


Canadian Speed. Perhaps now I made myself clearer. I hope you and all friends around understood what i've been trying to say from the start.


This?
Nurburgring-1982-05-30-103.jpg


or this?

ricer.jpg
 
Now for aero improvement im for it as for body kits that make cars 60 foot wide no
this NO


this is acceptable imho
 
Well, and there's another thing Dimitrov. There are a few people on the boards who are all in love with Need For Speed Underground and Fast and the Furious, but they're a very tiny minority. Hardly any of us want to bring Takedown Mode to Gran Turismo. ;)

I do hope that Kaz puts many of the elements like Forza has in GT5. Remember, all you need are chassis restoration+bodykits+modification+rollcage+weight reducion+paint shop

And you have the return of race mod!

I will have to say that there are a crop of superb artists there at Forzacentral.com. Those are some excellent examples of what we bodykit advocates are talking about. If you can completely mod and paint your own car, ANY car can be a race car.
 
i hate to break your bust, but if you had read trough the forza topic you'll discover that the guy who posted the pics has *cough* Photoshoped *cough*
the pictures ;)
 
I see a gameplay-philosophy problem with Racing Modification, regarding issues started with GT3 onwards.

In GT and GT2 RM was the final stage in turning street car into full-racing-model. Of course, there were full-RM models ready for purchase/prize delivery too.

However, GT3 and later games implied that RM models are separate models, not made by any tuning process, but made as a separate model from the scratch by official manufactorer. And with separate price tag that often stands out few times when comapred with Cr needed to buy a car and fully-modify it. GT4 went even futher - price tags went up and no changes were allowed - not even wheels.

And RM models basicaly became "Tuner" models as seen in GT4.

Myself - I find that kind of philosophy more convinient and realistic. I'd like to see more RM models in official manufactorer's shops, but I'd also love to see the transformance of Tuner's Village into true Tuner's centre, with logical inclusion of more non-japanese tuners and same "applicable-for-entry-if-we-tune-that-brand-in-the-real-world" philosophy behind.

Just few new options would be needed in addition to existing ones: paint, front and rear diffusor changes and side bumpers due to overall widening of car. However, it should also be limited by - common sense :).

And as for "custom" RM - it just do not feel right to turn a street car to an RM car with simple buying a 75,000 Stage 3 upgrade. Not any more.
 
Which is why I think you should have to buy the bodywork, weight reduction, roll cage, carbon monocoque etc all seperate.
 
What Live4speed mentioned recently only reinforces a "theory" I had. That theory was about how Racing Modifications will return, but on a piece-by-piece basis. I think it's only fair because that's the way I think modifying a car to racing specifications should be like.

Racing Modifications will have to be implemented with a collection of default paint schemes to use. Think of this vision as in "Ridge Racer V." "Ridge Racer V" featured a feature where you customized the paintscheme of the cars. You could carry up to three schemes and three different types- one-line, two-tone, and tricolor. But I have a better idea. PD may be able to come up with a minimum of 100 default paint designs, and perhaps a maximum of either 250 or 500. The point to this is that you can be able to paint up the different sections of the car. Take a look at this car: { http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/2001/Nurburgring-2001-09-09-063.jpg }. As you can see, this has one base color and three alternative colors. Having this as a default paint scheme for cars makes it possible to modify all the different colors to your liking. That car is the JMB Giesse Ferrari 360 Modena (from the FIA GT race at the N&#252;rburgring back in 2001), by the way. If that paint style was available as a default paint scheme, you will be able to modify the red color, the green colors, and the white accents. I think blue is also a color to this car, though I can't tell real well. The design style of this car can be used on any car in Gran Turismo that is modifiable. So imagine putting this paint style on something like a Saleen S7 or a Honda NSX Type-R. Also imagine being able to choose your own paint style for it. You can change it from red/white/green/blue (like in the link I've provided) to something like dark blue/yellow/royal blue/black. Or you can change it to any combination you like.

Now back to Racing Modifications. I think any changes to the car should be rendered. So if I get a Racing Muffler for a car, it should look very different from its stock setup. It would be interesting to see an exhaust kit complete with pipes and stuff and the racing muffler itself. Imagine a car with a stock, single-pipe muffler to be enhanced with a dual exhaust muffler with an open catalyst. I want to think that a Stage 3 Weight Reduction would result in a much lighter and sturdier car than stock. Or maybe that's why you don't see a roll cage for Stage 3 Weight Reductions, because it doesn't include a noticable roll cage setup. "Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3" featured a lightweight feature that allows you to have a roll cage in the car. The roll cage will slightly increase the weight of the car, but offer a great degree of protection in collisions. The roll cage can also be colored. A two-tone color car will likely note one of the tones and the roll cage to be the same color. Considering that every detail of every car in GT is fully rendered, it would be interesting to see a stock Renault Clio (the mid-engined/RWD one) all decked out with racing graphics, a Sparco racing seat, a chromed fire extinguisher, Formula 1-style electronic steering wheel from Momo... just a decked-out, all-business racing machine. Believe it or not, but I'm actually in it for a piece-by-piece Racing Modification. It would really help the issue of cars that don't have Racing Modifications available because we can basically MAKE our own. Maybe you can designate a race car design as the default colors like with Autobacs or Team Falken. So any car can be painted up in-shop as that specific design. Also interesting is if you purchase and modify the same model and give it a different paint scheme, much like how NASCAR and other racing series have special one-off race cars (for example, Jeff Gordon's DuPont car as the regular one, then comes out with a Pepsi-sponsored car).

Anything is possible if you only dream!
 
What you guys said.

With the capacity of the PS3 to render and number crunch, this might be the modder's Heavens Gate, along with Forza 2. I would like to see Tuner Village become a serious, sophisticated Tuner Center, allowing any kind of upgrading you could possibly want.

I'm really pulling for the body kit, paint shop, Tuner Center whole nine yards, as we say in America. I'd really like to see Gran Turismo give us the capability to completely individualize our cars, so that if you mod a Mustang, Viper, Supra, Skyline or whatever to racing spec, the paint scheme isn't the only difference. Different front and back ends as well as aerodynamic body panels will help to make my racecar uniquely mine, and then the paint shop will complete the deal with a scheme which I design myself. Since I'm also hoping for a Career Mode which will allow you to create your own racing identity, I've been gently lobbying for a good long list of default graphic schemes for the cars which can be greatly customized, as John pointed out, so those of us who aren't gifted graphic artists can still make a graphic scheme which will be admirably cool. Or if you want to, create your own from scratch using sophisticated painting tools. What would make this concept complete would be a good library of logos, decals and text fonts, along with a font, decal and logo editor/creator tool. I'd hope the PS3 would be sophisticated enough to accomodate graphic tablets like the Wacoms to make the job easier.

The capability is there for us to either mod up a street rod to whatever extent we want, or go full bore pro racecar if we choose. Since Kaz is an ambitious guy, I'm counting on a Gran Turismo 5 which allows our own dreams to become reality.

Oh, I would also point out that while many paint schemes in Forza are Photoshopped, they have a monthly competition in which only the paint shop in game can be used, and the cars these guys create look as good as many Photoshopped schemes. I'm really looking for some good word from both Polyphony and Team Forza on these two sequels and what they're loading into them for us.
 
Canadian Speed
Okay, we're on the same page Dimitrov...👍

However, please oooh and ahhh at these bad boys...

http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11180

http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=13&userid=5304

And for some reason I can't see Drift Gods threads anywhere... Maybe a little help... But all done using paintshop and body kits in Forza... How could we not have this...:drool:
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why did you bring my name into this ???

edit:

here are my cars, yes some are stupid looking but all cars were done with the ingame editor, absolutly no photoshop !!!

http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2965
 
Maybe he admires your work. ;)

Anyway, off to Forzaland for a bit. I'm too tired to wrestle with Live For Speed.
 
Well it doesn't, some people prefer the look of GT4 to Forza, but Forza is pushing more graphical details around. Aso Forza and GT4 are very close int he physics, they don't feel the same because some things GT4 get's wrong, Forza get's right and vice versa, but they're pretty close overall.
 
Well, I have to agree with Nismo on that. The graphics in Forza grew on me. At first they looked like a very good videogame, but as I got used to it, the cool little details which added to the realism began to pop out at me. They're pretty close. However, Forza is harmed badly by a 30fps screenrate, and environment reflections which flicker along at a crawling 6-8 frames per second! GT4 does have a lot of limits because of the skimpy 4megs of video ram, but the trackside detail is fantastic, and it does look like Speed Channel video. If Forza had car reflections running at at least 30fps too, they would be at apples vs orange level.

But Gran Turismo gets the edge in driving involvement too. You can talk physics and realism all you want, but those other brilliant games you guys love so much can't pull that one thing off that GT4 perfected. I know with Forza 2 the story may be entirely different and simply a matter of taste, and next week will untoubtedly have people who love both games drooling.
 
What did GT4 perfect? Because I find it very uninvolved when it comes to driving the car's in GT4 compared to these other games I love (that's one reason I prefer them, they're more involving), it can get boring, fast. I like Forza as I like GT4, both are pretty damn close overall, but neither are the most realistic sim out there.
 
live4speed
What did GT4 perfect? Because I find it very uninvolved when it comes to driving the car's in GT4 compared to these other games I love (that's one reason I prefer them, they're more involving), it can get boring, fast. I like Forza as I like GT4, both are pretty damn close overall, but neither are the most realistic sim out there.
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But I guess you get bored because of the lack of action in GT4 sometimes. The simulation itself, according to Tenacious D, is what makes GT better than others.
 
But it's not as a good a simulation as GTR, NetKar, GTL, LFS or RFactor to name a few, he said GT4 has got something perfect, it's not the simulation aspec that's for sure. All of thoes other games simulate a car's physics more realistically than GT4 does, sure the reason GTR4 get's boring fast is beacuse a: It's the 4th time I've done the whole GT thing and the formula hasn't changed since day 1. B: the lack of action, sure that's a reason and c: other game's have upped the ante far more than PD seem's to realise, GT is not the benchmark anymore for anything other than graphics and the number of car's you can fit into one game anymore. But we have a seperate thread discussing all of this.
 

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