Ethical Question

[orrice]

Hello, I just have an ethical question to ask people here. How come people get pissed off when someone says they race dirty against AI, yet just about nobody has any qualms about duping cars?

 

[Hun200kmh]

Not sure if it isn't the other way around here, but I actually agree with the people you mention:

a) racing dirty against the AI = racing dirty

b) duplicating cars = NOT racing dirty

I go for ... NOT racing dirty

 

[Ritterkreuz]

I've never duplicated a car, but to me, rubbing is racing. Maybe it's because I'm an American, but I have no problem with using the "chrome horn" on the A.I. I don't do it intentionally, but if contact can't be avoided I don't loose any sleep over it if you catch my drift.

 

[bullie77]

What I don't understand is the relation between dirty racing (i.e. punting, illegaly blocking, cutting corners, etc.) other cars and duplicating cars through game backup saves...

 

[Ya Pops]

What I don't understand is the relation between dirty racing (i.e. punting, illegaly blocking, cutting corners, etc.) other cars and duplicating cars through game backup saves...

👍 Really now...

As for racing dirty against the AI... I do it and don't give a damn, but online I'll do everything I can to keep it clean even if it means losing because I don't want to chance knocking someone off in a tight pass.

Rubbing is cool though, watch touring cars if you don't believe it

 

[Parker]

Hello, I just have an ethical question to ask people here. How come people get pissed off when someone says they race dirty against AI, yet just about nobody has any qualms about duping cars?

I don't know what threads you've been reading, but every time there is a thread that mentions duplicating cars, there are several people up in arms about it. Personally, I want to earn my cars the correct way, but I couldn't care less if Billy or Bobby feel the need to duplicate their X1's or $20 million cars. They paid their own money for the game, they can play it how they want.

In that same vein, I don't care if they race "dirty" against the A.I. either. Again, I don't do it personally, as I prefer to race cleanly with a comparable car to the A.I. but again, if Henry or Sally want to ram the A.I. off the road every chance they get, so be it.

When it gets taken online is when I think racers need to follow a certain code of conduct. People bought a realistic racer for a reason, and it isn't to ram people off the road. Ram the A.I all you want, but don't ram human players online.


Just my take on things,

Parker

 

[ASH32]

Race dirty against the A.I, birthday glitch or dupe if you want, I don't care, I'll chose not to do it. I am sick of the moaning about it though, stop it, the duplicators won't listen to you anyway so you are wasting your time.

 

[dhandeh]

When playing single player general consensus is, "I bought the game, I will play it anyway i want"

Online racing though, it should be well mannered, not smash people at the first and every other opportunity. As for duping, well what can you do?

 

[RWB1213]

Duplicating cars is exploiting a hole in the software, which PD should have found before they released the title. That said, I chose not to exploit these glitches.

The AI in GT5 is so bad that I rarely apply any racing etiquette towards them. I'll generally try to get by them clean, but if I happen to get into them I don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Completely different points.

Racing Dirty against the AI is pointless, you may as well play NFS because the whole principle of a realistic game goes out of the window if you do things you wouldn't in real life. Where as 'duping' cars:

 

[powersaurus]

The ai race ridiculously, and a lot of the challenges aren't exactly set up to be raced clean (ie S1-10: pass 7-15 cars in one lap...). I try my best to race clean but at the end of the day I dont really care.

As far as duping, I dont do it but I cant believe anybody cares. Anyone who gets upset about how someone else plays their video game clearly has too much time on their hands

 

[orrice]

What I don't understand is the relation between dirty racing (i.e. punting, illegaly blocking, cutting corners, etc.) other cars and duplicating cars through game backup saves...

The connection is that they are both unethical practices, and while one is widely discouraged, the other isn't discouraged nearly as much (at least on the marketplace).

 

[Ya Pops]

It's computer controlled opposition! Who gives a ****, and why!?

If you were talking about online, I'd understand as it affects real people..

/facepalms myself to death.


Besides that, there's a zillion threads with people moaning about duping. What are you on about?

 

[MidianGTX]

I don't know what threads you've been reading, but every time there is a thread that mentions duplicating cars, there are several people up in arms about it.

/topic

 

[DOUQA]

I don't know what threads you've read but I can't remember ever seeing someone complain about how others race the AI. The only divide I've seen on that are the people that do it clean, and the people who do it dirty. Most simply state how they do it, I've never seen it cause argument or complaint.

Duping cars causes lots of arguments. There have been some epic threads. Worth a read:tup:

I do the Clubman cup in a Mclaren F1 so theres no need to ram them. I can't have an enjoyable racing experience against the AI so I don't bother trying.

Online is what I'm interested in. And duping cars

 

[speedy2782]

I'm of the mindset that this is still a game - I play to shut my brain off and enjoy a little down time. That being said I hit the AI cars at top speed sometimes to make an inside pass...and I dont reset the race because I wasn't racing clean.
Online against other drivers, I keep it clean-ish. I don't ram or inside cut but If you slam on your brakes early at a corner- f-it youre are getting hit.
Duping cars. Again, its a game exploit that is each gamers prerogative.

 

[Str|ke]

When playing single player general consensus is, "I bought the game, I will play it anyway i want"

Online racing though, it should be well mannered, not smash people at the first and every other opportunity. As for duping, well what can you do?

Here here 👍

Against the A.I. it's whatever too me. But against other people, I play as clean as possible, even underpowered cars but the online community is, uggggh, so wrong sometimes. I was online in a lobby where these guys were literally bouncing off the corners just ramming there cars into corners at full speed to get 1st place, everyone quit out

 

[Destinkeys]

Just enable full damage, and rub all you want...! As long as there are consequences to YOU for heavy contact and not just your opponent, you ARE racing! As has been said... watch almost ANY racing, and you'll see contact. What makes the game unrealistic, what returns it to arcade, is when you can bang and barge, but you are magically invulnerable.

Personally, though, I wish that online had full damage without ANY option to turn it off. Some kind of consistency would level the playing field, and promote good behavior across the board, and the example for IRL driving (let us not kid ourselves that there isn't at least a SMALL correlation between online behavior and IRL behavior!) would drive home the point that, while rubbing happens, it is NEVER without consequences.

As to the duping and birthday glitches, I simply feel that this reflects the video game buying demographic. If they are bought primarily by children (<18), you can expect childish behavior. What astounds me is that, for the life of me, I can't think of another game where you CAN treat it as basically a toolbox full of toys, and you play the game EXACTLY the way you want to. There are rules in just about everything I've ever played! No-one starts a RPG and demands to be the ultimate goal of the game at the start. Except here, for some odd reason...

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

duping cars was unintentional collateral damage where as rubbing bumpers is part of the game and you were supposed to face consequences in the form of mechanical damage and penalties, neither of which exist offline.

 

[Ya Pops]

Just enable full damage, and rub all you want...! As long as there are consequences to YOU for heavy contact and not just your opponent, you ARE racing! As has been said... watch almost ANY racing, and you'll see contact. What makes the game unrealistic, what returns it to arcade, is when you can bang and barge, but you are magically invulnerable.

Personally, though, I wish that online had full damage without ANY option to turn it off. Some kind of consistency would level the playing field, and promote good behavior across the board, and the example for IRL driving (let us not kid ourselves that there isn't at least a SMALL correlation between online behavior and IRL behavior!) would drive home the point that, while rubbing happens, it is NEVER without consequences.

As to the duping and birthday glitches, I simply feel that this reflects the video game buying demographic. If they are bought primarily by children (<18), you can expect childish behavior. What astounds me is that, for the life of me, I can't think of another game where you CAN treat it as basically a toolbox full of toys, and you play the game EXACTLY the way you want to. There are rules in just about everything I've ever played! No-one starts a RPG and demands to be the ultimate goal of the game at the start. Except here, for some odd reason...

It's not an RPG, it's a racing game and a lot of people (who payed their money just like you) want to play with whatever cars they like.
It's got nothing to do with being childish.

 

[HurlingDervish]

Ethics only works if more than one conscious being is involved directly or indirectly in a situation. There can be nothing unethical about dirty racing against AI, unless, of course it was sentient and was kind of a bitch from time to time. Duping cars also has nothing to do with ethics because nobody but you is being affected by it.

 

[gold_ultima]

I don't get people....I don't care about duping. I don't do it myself, because I'm honestly too lazy to bother. I have all the cars I want anyways. I don't care about hitting AI drivers. You're not hitting me. I don't even mind some bumping during online so long as it's not on purpose and you aren't trying to pit me. Don't crap on people for what they do in the privacy of their own home.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Hello, I just have an ethical question to ask people here. How come people get pissed off when someone says they race dirty against AI, yet just about nobody has any qualms about duping cars?

I don't mind it when people say they race "dirty" against the Ai, as it is their game, and they can do what they want with it. What I mind is when these cheaters act like they're great drivers or something, and then they take their attitude online. It's these idiots who were bumping me off-course Saturday night when I was online trying to run a good race. They seem to have no regard for the passion of motorsports, they have no idea what skill really is. Bumping people (or Ai) off track arguably takes some skill, but it doesn't take nearly as much skill as driving clean...

Duping cars? While personally I don't agree with duping, it's the gamer's choice. It's their game, they can do what they want with it. :shrugs:

 

[sesselpupser]

Threads like this just come across as cheaters/exploiters trying to justify what they do by comparing it to 'frowned upon' but legitimate play.

Point is, exploiting means earning loads of money/cars without stepping foot inside a car to race.

Racing dirty, grinding, cutting corners, etc. all involve actually playing, and if it's against the AI, does anyone care? You could go as far as to say using driving aids is cheating, just because it makes it easier for you to win (or control your car, at least).

Therefore, the two are not even slightly alike.

If you feel racing dirty against an AI is unethical, then you definitely shouldn't be duplicating or birthday exploiting, quite frankly.


I will, however, disclaim this post with the following;
I understand why people would exploit, and that's fine by me, I have no problem with people playing the game how they want. It's the attitude of a lot of people that I don't get; I have seen some people try and justify it by comparing it to racing dirty (against the AI) and other such things, and I just don't understand that. If you're exploiting, just admit it and move on, accept that some others don't like it (which I also don't really understand) and then, I don't know, just remember that their opinions don't really matter anyway because they're not going to change your approach.

I must say, this whole exploiters vs. militant non-exploiters debate is the biggest nothing since... Anything. PD never intended there to be a marketplace (evident in the 1 car a day limit) so complaining that exploiters killed the marketplace is, well, strange in my opinion.

 

[Luminis]

Racing clean against the AI is probably the most challenging thing to do in GT5. Not because they are particularily fast or hard to beat. But, when you're going fast, heading for the next corner, all of a sudden you see two red lights flashing in front of you, two miles before the breaking point.
The AI has noticed the corner and is slamming the brakes in utter terror of turning at speeds that would make their poor granny in the passenger seat get sick.

I've been racing them for a while now, and that super early breaking is still catching me off guard, so I still bump them every now and then

 

[JeffKill]

It's a video game, who gives a 🤬 about ethics? Just play the damn GAME and have fun.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Racing clean against the AI is probably the most challenging thing to do in GT5. Not because they are particularily fast or hard to beat. But, when you're going fast, heading for the next corner, all of a sudden you see two red lights flashing in front of you, two miles before the breaking point.
The AI has noticed the corner and is slamming the brakes in utter terror of turning at speeds that would make their poor granny in the passenger seat get sick.

I've been racing them for a while now, and that super early breaking is still catching me off guard, so I still bump them every now and then

What I hate the most is when they suddenly swerve in front of you right before you can pass them. They love doing that at Grand Valley, and at La Sarthe.

 

[-Cheezman-]

I just did the 300km at Trial Mountain endurance race in an X1 that was most likely duplicated. I had a 25 lap lead by the 50th lap (60 total).

That pretty much sums up my opinion on ethics against AI.

 

[HONDAndy]

Racing dirty, grinding, cutting corners, etc. all involve actually playing, and if it's against the AI, does anyone care? You could go as far as to say using driving aids is cheating, just because it makes it easier for you to win (or control your car, at least).

This. The only unethical thing about racing dirty or duping etc. for me would be to lie about it afterwards- e.g. I completed it in a week ( fails to mention it was all in a duped x2010 )

 

[bullie77]

Again, I can't find the supposed relation between racing dirty vs. duplicating cars.

I do duplicate cars to share with friends and received cars I miss from them. Why? Simple, because I cannot afford to pass the 80% of my life to play the game in order to collect all the cars I'd like to have. I ask what is unethical on that? Who am I harming by doing it? Who am I hurting by using online a duplicated stock Bentley Speed 8, in a field of other LMP cars, duplicated or not? If I race it clean I can't seen where is the unethical part of it.

I, personally, feel it is more unethical to use over-exagerated tune cars, or to tune cars in a way you couldn't in real life and them use it (ex; to upgrade engine CPU in a '67 Lamborghini Miura).

The game is massively flawed in terms of the restrictions of what you can or can not do in a specific car or race. People would obviously use the game as far as they can, so in resume, if you want to put it in ethical/unethical terms, I could argue that unethical behaviour was what we get from PD/Sony in putting out a game that (in it it's gaming structure) it is clearly unfinished and unpolished.

GT5 is the best game on the series and, at the same time, the worst.