F1 2010 Physics

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I did a 40% race at Spa & came away with the impression that the FFB was lighter than I remembered. But I wouldn't swear to that - need to try a few other tracks. The problem is, after a few more laps it becomes hard to be sure whether you are accurately registering real differences or it's just imaginary...
 
Hi guys,

Been playing f12010 on the PC for a while now and have worked out why we spin out at certain corners.

The reason is because we turn into slow corners to early and end up cutting the kerb SO that one of your rear tyres is on the kerb. When you get on the throttle, the rear end spins out simply because only ONE tyre is providing traction and the other (on the kerb) is a pivot and so the side of the car that is NOT on the kerb is going forward as the other isn't (you get better traction on tarmac than on the kerb).

SO, solution to this? You have to more precise with slow cornering. You can't afford to let your rear tyres get on the kerb. Ensure that you attack corners by making sure the FRONT of the car is facing the apex and only your front wheels touch (or go over the kerb).

I don't believe it is a fault of that game...even though it does feel like it when we keep on spinning out lap after lap.

Thank you.
 
I know Peter, I was gutted too when I saw these onboard laps and looked at the lap times. The difference between us and those guys is that I imagine that you and I apply our knowledge of real life racing to our driving which gets you so far, but the 'aliens' among us aren't bound by these rules and instead drive by their own rules, exploiting the game's physics to the maximum rather than driving fast as you imagine it would be done in the real world. Even still, it all just comes down to a matter of talent, as all the same aces from F1:CE - Alonzo, Pollero and Digiprost amongst others - are the same guys dominating the time trial leaderboards in F1 2010.

I'm considerably closer to them in F1 2010 for some reason though. Generally speaking i'm within a second of the best lap time at most tracks. Bizarrely last I checked I still had the fastest non assisted dry lap at Spa on the PS3 leaderboards, still only good enough for 13th or so overall. Personally I put this down to the fact that F1 2010's handling feels so much more natural to me, whereas F1:CE felt more like I was adapting to its particular set of demands. Has to be said that Supercar Challenge, F1:CE and GT5P all felt like that to me. With F1 2010 I noticed that I was up to speed almost immediately. The fact that i'm a massive Formula One fan has to have helped!

One thing I would suggest Peter if you're not enjoying the sometimes exaggerated grip in F1 2010 is to race with the bottom three teams. Their grip levels seem more in tune with what the top teams would be like in real life, whereas the McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull are all just completely off the chart.

Im desperately trying to beat your Spa non assited lap, the last corner is a killer, been ahead of you a few times but i always bottle it.
 
I personally am not a huge fan of the physics in F1 2010. I actually find it easier to drive the BF1 in Live for Speed than the F1 cars in 2010 because the game gives you barely any feedback through the wheel compared to other racing sims. Its also damn near impossible to see a slide coming and save a slide without simply using trial and error to learn when and how you can apply the throttle in given corners.

Also the damn cockpit view gave me severe headaches due to high frequency shaking/buffeting. I didn't realise that was the cause immediately until I went back to other sim racers and noticed the cockpit cam doesn't shake as violently as F1 2010, hence why no other game gave me headaches. Luckily, I bought the game for PC and a quick edit of the "cameras.xml" file completely eliminates the buffeting camera in cockpit cam.

The cars also have some serious traction control and stability control. So often you just put your foot flat to the floor and either the engine adjusts to not spin the wheels, or you spin the wheels but at no great loss of control or speed.

But still, its a fun game. I'm enjoying my first season with Lotus and about to start my 2nd season with Ferrari. The graphics on the PC version are pretty damn awesome too. Quite possibly the visually best racing game (Shift was good too, probably has the best car interiors of any game I've seen).
 
You should definitely check out some of the PC mods at NoGrip and RaceDepartment. Particularly the graphics/shader, camera, penalty, and tyre wear mods, which for me takes it from about a 7.5/8 out of 10 sort of game to about a 9. You can also tweak grip to any percentage of original levels using a GUI utility here to make it as grippy or slidey as you want.
 
Yeah I've looked at some of the mods but none of them really appealled all that much. I got rid of the blur and HDR effect by deleting all the post processing files that relate to them which I think looks just as good as the mods people have made.

When you start screwing around with grip it does affect the balance of the game a bit... I prefer just to play the game as it comes instead of screwing around with mods and config files. Destroys the immersion otherwise.

I just deleted those HDR/blur and head buffeting files to make the game look nicer and stop my headaches ;)
 
I am going to bring this thread back to live. I recently dusted off my F1 2010 to see if my first impressions of the game (which were good initially, but after watching downloaded f1 races, went to bad) had changed through the course of time. I agree with the OP that physics in the game is dissapointing. I play with a ds3 and sometimes you spin out whitout the sligthest sign of it even coming, but on other corners it sticks like glue. I drive on expert, that is without any assist and manual gear shifts. The gear shifts done in the game are also to slow to be realistic, but that is another case.

It is in low speeds the games physics is worst. It produce to little grip. You can see this by standing still and accelerating hard while turning (so the car starts going round on one spot) and the realising the throttle and turning the wheel the other way. The car will keep sliding in the direction you first turned the wheel. If it where any realism in the game the car would stop turning when you realised the throttle.

Perhaps there is some combinations of setup and assist that makes the cars behavoir more realistic and gives you a chance to counter some of the spin - offs?
 
F1 2010 has the best driving physics of perhaps any F1 game in history. the old Grand Prix games might be its closest competition, though I never played any of those.

I have been playing this game a whole lot, and I love the physics engine, as opposed to F1:CE's which I really hated, and struggled with in our online championship. As Shaggy said, its far closer to real life when it comes to getting a fast lap. But it does have it's problems. A major one is that the cars lack mechanical grip. Braking distances are considerably longer than in real life, there is a lot less traction than in real life, and the cars understeer at low speed more than they should be. Braking on the grass doesn't affect the cars in the way it really should, in real life you will spin, but here you will do little more than lock that wheel. Rumble strips will more often than not spin you if you attack them full on, eg. at Monza. Gravel traps are made of duct tape, a single touch sucks you back and/or will just spin you like nothing.
 
There isnt a racing game out there which is better then F1 2010, Period. The graphics, Physics, Damage Modelling tracks etc etc..Absolutely stunning
 
There isnt a racing game out there which is better then F1 2010, Period. The graphics, Physics, Damage Modelling tracks etc etc..Absolutely stunning

I agree with everything except Physics and damage modeling... even GRID had best damage modeling and the Physics where very dodgy, hell even Targa admited in the codemasters forums that the driving Physics needed improvement wich he said they did with F1 2011
 
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There isnt a racing game out there which is better then F1 2010, Period. The graphics, Physics, Damage Modelling tracks etc etc..Absolutely stunning

You are entitled to have a personal opinion, but i disagree with you. The graphics are great, the tracks is modeled down to the smallest little detail, but at it its best, GT5 is more beautiful than any other game I've played. F1 2010 physics are great too, but cars seems to lack mechanical grip which is crutial at low speeds, and thus making driving extremely frustrating at times. Also, GT 5 has a FANTASTIC damage model. Absolutly brilliant! 👎 jk, but Shift 2 seems to have a better damage model than F1 2010. We'll see when F1 2011 comes out, how big the improvments will be.
 
Graphics are great, sounds are great, tracks are great.

Physics... leave a LOT to be desired, a big massive chunk of things to be desired. The cars don't abide the laws of physics very well.

The game is great but also very buggy, i just had a blast after not playing it since January, only to find some crazy bug when i pitstop causing my car to drive 40mph and sound like its gonna blow up before i get to the pit line, and then driving at 40mph out of the pit all thew way to the end of the white line, way past the pit exit, 30 second pitstops, nice.
 
If there is fake AI, there is no reason to suspect scripted physics. IMO the cars have an unpredictable feel to them, youll get confident over some curbs, then the next corner just makes you spin for no reason.
Pit stop problems still occur, AI dont seem to simulate fuel and you cant learn from setups because they use an offset system from a pre-programmed base setup which is different for every race. For me, the game is unplayable. I dont care how good it looks if i cant have a decent race.

Also has anyone been able to get a good start? I always lose/maintain positions, cant ever gain a position off the line.
 
the physics do feel a bit canned/unrealistic at points. the tires bend the wrong way when cornering under load, and the best way to avoid spinning out is to slam on the brakes :P. Try ferrari virtual academy and then f1 2010.

The atmosphere and racing was really fun in 2010. 2011 should have better physics.
 
If they can improve on the physics (i'm not expecting FVA level sim) and sort out the annoying bugs then 2011 should be great. I'm skeptical though, with 2010 they released the game and that was pretty much it, they never really solved any of the issues with it, like out the door with 2010 and straight onto 2011.

I'm playing 2010 and still seeing bugs and issues (and even new issues that didn't exist before) that were around on release, with 2011 being out in just a few months. Dirt 3 was great and was much less buggy than F1 2010 so hopefully we will see an improvement.

Physics wise F1 2010 was very half assed, they did a good job considering and the game works but for me to be inticed to spend my money on 2011 I would hope they can step the physics up a lot.

To anybody who thinks the physics are good, treat yourself to Ferrari Virtual Academy or iRacing, or perhaps even Rfactor with the Bmw Sauber 2007 car. The comparison is night and day and the level of complexity and detail in those games really shows the flaws in F1 2010.
 
Yeah the physics in 2010 were "rubbish." Although the AI was as good as it gets....As good as the old Road Rash series. Remember how lifelike bubba was swinging his club on his Harley at 120 mph. That was some serious time they must have spent, especially on Road Rash 3D. And in a time were PS1 had a small fraction of the power of the PS3 today.

Thats why ya'll need to demand more out of games. Especially in the realism department....
 
The problem with the physics is down to the rigid and simplistic tyre model. The behaviour and feel of the car is just awful as the model runs on the highest point of the tyre (it looks like the cars are floating):

tbH12.jpg


and doesn't deform to the surface which causes problems, especially with the kerbs for example.
 
I dunno. Been revisiting F12010 & while there are some nice things about the game, I'd have a hard time really praising the physics - too much of what goes on seems to be "canned" or pre-scripted.

The difficulty factors in F12010 are learning how to avoid the exaggerated low-speed under-steer, & learning how to avoid spinning out on the curbs. Other than that, it's pretty much pedal-to-the metal. In contrast, F1CE requires a huge amount of concentration & precision at all times to get the braking points & gear shifts right, otherwise you'll find yourself off the track - which SURELY is the way it must be IRL?!

The experience of both games using a controller might be significantly different. With a wheel, F1CE provides a superb sense of immersion through the bumpy, shaking wheel - something that no other game I've tried even attempts. On the other hand, the actual cornering FFB in F1CE is lacking in feel & detail. F12011 has more descriptive FFB while cornering but it's disappointingly light.

The holy grail of FFB & physics would be GT5's detail, SCC's weight transfer, & F1CE's shakes & bumps. Throw in F12011's AI & you'd really have something! 👍
 
The problem with the physics is down to the rigid and simplistic tyre model. The behaviour and feel of the car is just awful as the model runs on the highest point of the tyre (it looks like the cars are floating):

tbH12.jpg


and doesn't deform to the surface which causes problems, especially with the kerbs for example.

but F1 tires dont deform to the surface in real life either(unless in a hig speed turn)...very high tire pressures and stiff sidewalls...A tire with any kind of dramatic deformation would stand the strain that f1 cars put through it
 
but F1 tires dont deform to the surface in real life either(unless in a hig speed turn)...very high tire pressures and stiff sidewalls...A tire with any kind of dramatic deformation would stand the strain that f1 cars put through it

there's real life picture
ferrari_valencia_2008_hipreview.jpg


i can see slight difference
 
I dunno. Been revisiting F12010 & while there are some nice things about the game, I'd have a hard time really praising the physics - too much of what goes on seems to be "canned" or pre-scripted.

The difficulty factors in F12010 are learning how to avoid the exaggerated low-speed under-steer, & learning how to avoid spinning out on the curbs. Other than that, it's pretty much pedal-to-the metal. In contrast, F1CE requires a huge amount of concentration & precision at all times to get the braking points & gear shifts right, otherwise you'll find yourself off the track - which SURELY is the way it must be IRL?!

The experience of both games using a controller might be significantly different. With a wheel, F1CE provides a superb sense of immersion through the bumpy, shaking wheel - something that no other game I've tried even attempts. On the other hand, the actual cornering FFB in F1CE is lacking in feel & detail. F12011 has more descriptive FFB while cornering but it's disappointingly light.

The holy grail of FFB & physics would be GT5's detail, SCC's weight transfer, & F1CE's shakes & bumps. Throw in F12011's AI & you'd really have something! 👍

Each to their own Peter. F1:CE required accurate throttle and brake inputs, but that's really where the realism in cornering ends. What F1 2010 does brilliantly is the actual steering inputs are so much more fluid and lifelike than F1:CE, where its steering inputs are just not scaled correctly at all. This makes the game feel like a game, and unlike a real F1 car. F1 cars are meant to be extremely responsive, capable of quick direction changes which simply isn't the feeling of F1:CE's cars. There's virtually no 'feeling' from the driving in F1:CE, it's almost all aesthetic - driving along bumps in the road may have really nice FFB, but it's superficial and doesn't really affect your driving or lap time.

Plus I think you overstate the point about F1 cars requiring such precise inputs or else you'll go off the track - this is certainly true if it's being driven on the ragged edge. F1 teams aim to create a car that gives its driver confidence and allows him to extract the most potential out of it - it's eking out the final couple of seconds where only the best drivers in the world can manage, but up to this point many drivers can do this. Hence someone like Valentino Rossi (regardless of just how talented he is) being able to get within a second of Kimi Raikkonen's lap time around Catalunya. I don't mean to trivialise the skill of an F1 driver, but I really think it's overstated just how difficult these cars are meant to be to actually drive - as if you need to be an alien just to be able to keep it on the road. Of course they would be impossible to a total novice put into the car with totally inadequate preparation, such as in Richard Hammond's case. But I believe with a little training and track time, almost anyone with the desire could get into an F1 car and at least drive it competently to get it round the track much, much more respectably than Hammond did.

I feel like i'm starting to retread old ground anyway, but my final point is that I believe F1 2010 replicates the feeling of driving an F1 car much more accurately than F1:CE, which feels a little like it was designed without any real world driver feedback, and was designed by someone's perception of how an F1 car must handle from the outside looking in i.e. a characterless rocket ship, rather than a driver friendly whippet which I think F1 car designers aspire for their cars to feel like in the hands of their drivers, as that's the way to consistently extract the most potential from them.

P.S. Apologies if this seems like a bit of a digression, but these thoughts are constantly through my head when I drive F1 2010. The game recreates these basic experiences well if you allow for the simplicity of the actual physics engine, but it's still more complex than F1:CE's anyway.
 
There are things I agree & disagree with, Shaggy.

The handling in F1CE does have a "digital" quality compared to F12010 which definitely has a more "organic" feel. But, at the same time, the driving in F1CE always seemed to me to very precisely reward you (or punish you) for your inputs in a consistent & understandable way - I could always tell when I was taking a series of corners right & when I was making little mistakes & losing a couple of 10ths. I'm not feeling that F12010 is as logical or consistent in this way.

As far as the "feeling" is concerned - F12010 is better in some ways, but the rattling FFB on F1CE is a great effect for re-creating the feeling of racing an F1 car & BOTH games are disappointing in the way they model the "weight' of cornering through the FFB.

As far as how easy it is to drive an F1 car IRL - I really have no idea, but I'm guessing the sheer speed at which things happen & the precision required to control that speed, is what makes it so challenging.

I'm wanting to really like F12010 because it would then represent my "go-to" game when not playing online, which is what F1CE did for me for a number of years.
 
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