F1 and NASCAR

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Earlier this week Honda did hit their target at Bonneville, 400km/h (248mph) over a measured mile, and it was a race legal car;)
 
IIRC they only did so in one direction. On the second run in the opposite direction they could not match that speed.
 
Blake
F1 cars are not designed to go at that sort of speed, though. F1 cars have massive wings, and have loads of aerodynamic devices that add a huge amount of drag to the cars.

Take a NASCAR around Catalunya, and see how much slower it is than an F1 car. As everyone has been saying, they’re apples and oranges. You cannot compare them when they are designed to do completely different things.
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Well, someone asked for the top-speeds and I tried to find them. Everyone knows that they are completely different, and I myself have been saying that for quite some time. However, they are indirectly comparible as they are the two most popular sports on either side of the Atlantic.

I wouldn't count the NASCAR completely out on most circuits, as it could probably keep up with most GT-class models from either the ALMS or FIA. But obviously they aren't F1 cars...
 
Now here is something eles to ponder.The tires.In NASCAR they are on the thin side and in F1,ALMS,IRL,etc...... they are on the wide side.So would it be safe for the NASCARs to run at 200+ mph for a long time?
 
They can run at nearly 200 MPH at Daytona for 30-something laps and usually last pretty well. Smaller tracks can be hell on the Goodyears, as for the past few seasons they have had blister problems on the tires that lead to early wear or often cause a wreck after a blow-out.

The race at Pocono on Sunday was surprisingly without big tire problems like what happened last month, as speeds at that track range between 130-200 MPH all day.

I think I would feel pretty safe with sustained speeds on a Daytona or Talledega tire, as they are designed to run at or above 200 MPH all day...
 
kart racer
Next year will be interesting in NASCAR with Toyota coming in and the use of the NEW car.This just might be the time to jump over to NASCAR.
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Toyota are joining NASCAR, with a new car... I thought NASCAR was restricted to only 2 cars, Ford and Chevrolet...
 
TMM
Toyota are joining NASCAR, with a new car... I thought NASCAR was restricted to only 2 cars, Ford and Chevrolet...
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Just to clarify, "NASCAR" is not the series. It is the sanctioning body. The Busch Series, Craftsman Truck Series, and Nextel Cup Series are all part of NASCAR. I do understand that you guys are talking about the Nextel Cup Series every time you refer to NASCAR, but I just wanted to clear this up to avoid confusion.

Now to answer your question. The Nextel Cup Series is not restricted to only two cars. Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge are currently racing in that series. In fact, 2007 will not be Toyota's first year in NASCAR. They are currently racing in the Craftsman Truck Series and have been part of that series since 2004(?). So Toyota isn't "joining NASCAR" in 2007 since they have been part of NASCAR for years now. However, they are joining the Nextel Cup Series for the first time.
 
240^drift
WOW
240 mph?
i thought that the last land speed record was broke at 226 MPh?
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The Land Speed Record is 763.035mph / 1,227.99 kmh, set in 1997 by Andy Green driving ThrustSSC.

YSSMAN can you explain "wedge" to me? I'm moderately familiar with suspension, but this is a term I've never heard of outside NNC commentary.
 
To be completely honest, I know what the wedge does, but I have no idea how it does it. To be plainly simple, it is a tool that either increases the tightness of the car (read understeer) or the looseness of the car (read oversteer). Cars that are tight can often go faster in a straight line, but once they hit the corner they can drift upwards causing the driver to have to slow down further. The exact opposite happens with a loose car, which is often the cause of many accidents.

The wedge is probably the most tinkered with part of the car, as there are times where you can't fix anything on the car no matter how you fiddle with the wedge. I can think of a few races with Dale Jr. where he had to take wedge in and out all day because the car was changing with the weather, and it would have a snap oversteer problem in two of the turns.
 
The "wedge" is not actually a physical part of the car that is adjusted.

Wedge is a measure of the relative amounts of lateral weight transfer measured between the front and rear axles.

Positive wedge means that the inside rear tire is carrying a greater percentage of the total rear axle load compared to the percentage of front axle load carried by the inside front tire. Negative wedge means the opposite.

In other words, POSITIVE wedge means that the load is distributed MORE equally across the rear axle than it is in the front. NEGATIVE wedge means that the load is distributed LESS equally across the rear axle than it is in the front.

Increasing wedge tends to generate more understeer and decreasing wedge tends to generate more oversteer.

That's about as clearly as I can put it unfortunately.
 
dougiemeats
Just to clarify, "NASCAR" is not the series. It is the sanctioning body. The Busch Series, Craftsman Truck Series, and Nextel Cup Series are all part of NASCAR. I do understand that you guys are talking about the Nextel Cup Series every time you refer to NASCAR, but I just wanted to clear this up to avoid confusion.




:lol: picky,picky,picky....For this oldtimer it will always be Winston Cup.:)
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I'm not really being picky, I usually refer to Winston/Nextel Cup simply as NASCAR too. But I saw "Toyota joining NASCAR in 2007" and I had to point out that the statement is technically wrong. ;)
 
Sorry to add to the 'Why is NASCAR so popular in America' thing, but another reason is that you can see the whole circuit from where your sitting on most tracks.

The rules for a car/truck to be in NASCAR is that is has to be built in the United States.
 
FireEmblem62
Sorry to add to the 'Why is NASCAR so popular in America' thing, but another reason is that you can see the whole circuit from where your sitting on most tracks.

The rules for a car/truck to be in NASCAR is that is has to be built in the United States.
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That must be in terms of literally because Toyota has been in the Craftsmen Truck Series since 1979.
 
Duke
The "wedge" is not actually a physical part of the car that is adjusted.
...

That's about as clearly as I can put it unfortunately.
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+1! You did it a lot better than I ever could!

@ FireEmblem62: Yes, that is true that you can't see the entire track at most places, but it isn't a huge deal. The new thing has been for NASCAR to have these gigantic TV screens placed around the track so you can watch the network feed as the race happens. It actually works out pretty well, and from what I understand, they have impoved it much more than the last time I was at a race (about three years ago).

@ "McLaren*: The Craftsman Truck series hasn't been around that long. Although it dates back to 1993, the actual series started back in 1996.

...There was a hubbub a while back when rumors started floating around that Nissan wanted to get into Craftsman truck racing with their Titan. Nothing ever came of it, but being the trucks are built in Tenessee (or is it further south?), they could compete.

It would also allow companies like Hyundai, Honda, MG, BMW and Mercedes to compete as well.
 
YSSMAN
@ FireEmblem62: Yes, that is true that you can't see the entire track at most places, but it isn't a huge deal. The new thing has been for NASCAR to have these gigantic TV screens placed around the track so you can watch the network feed as the race happens. It actually works out pretty well, and from what I understand, they have impoved it much more than the last time I was at a race (about three years ago).
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I think he was trying to say that you can see the whole track in most places. ;)
 
^ Ooops, good catch. I suppose it does depend on the track, but most that I have been to (Daytona, Michigan, Chicago) require the big TV sets.

...Tracks like Richmond, Bristol, New Hampshire, etc. are pretty good for seeing the majority of the track.

When we usually go to Michigan, we like to sit in the main grandstand, and you can get a good view of turn four, the tri-oval, and turn one.
 
Yeah, you can see most of it, I go to New Hampshire every year for the July race, we sit just out of turn four, and the only part we can't see on the track is turn 2, just because the garages and everything is in the way.

Cheers,
Matt.

PS-The big moniter setup is terrible at NH, they have the one giant one at the S/F, and we can't see that one, but otherwise, they have none.
 
Been to Daytona twice and yes you can see the whole track but the cars are small.(I taped the race just to catch what I missed).Havealso been to Indy and that is a track that you cannot see the whole track.
 
Indy is pretty bad from what I understand. I almost went to the US Grand Prix this year, but decided against it...
 
240^drift
why do so many people like nascar?
seriously, i would rather watch ants walk across my driveway than watch nascar.
WOOPDIE DOOOO watching cars go around in circles for hours, so cool!
sike!

the F1 side:
F1 i think is the coolest motorsport on earth.
Taking corners at ear spliting speeds and pulling some fierce G's...
just seems a bit more interesting.
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O how I disagree with every word you just said. Heres my version.
Why do so many people like F1? The cars have no clutch, they have TCS, they have ridiculous amounts of downforce. All this makes it just that much easier to drive. Another problem I have with F1, Schumacher!!:crazy: He wins pretty much every race. Its always him. Why do you watch a race that you already know who the winner will be? Why did I not watch the US Grand Prix this year? Because I already knew who would win the d.am thing.

Nextel Cup:
Its bare bones racing. Power steering is the only convience the cars have. They are powered by good old carb V8s.
Oval tracks are much better than boring road courses. Drivers can pass at any moment on an oval. Road courses have limited passing opportinity. Also you can put more seats on ovals so more people can come to watch.
There is much more action in Nextel Cup. Leaders change all the time. Drivers can draft off each other to make passes.
 
YSSMAN
From what I understand, the qualifying speed record at Indy was set by Casey Mears two years ago in his Target Dodge Challenger at about 187 MPH. The record set by an IRL car was 236 MPH at Indy, but I'm not sure what F1 does given that they run the infield and not the full loop.
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If you mean top speed, today they easily hit 200mph at the Brickyard
 
=V8 Power=
O how I disagree with every word you just said. Heres my version.
Why do so many people like F1? The cars have no clutch, they have TCS, they have ridiculous amounts of downforce. All this makes it just that much easier to drive. Another problem I have with F1, Schumacher!!:crazy: He wins pretty much every race. Its always him. Why do you watch a race that you already know who the winner will be? Why did I not watch the US Grand Prix this year? Because I already knew who would win the d.am thing.

Nextel Cup:
Its bare bones racing. Power steering is the only convience the cars have. They are powered by good old carb V8s.
Oval tracks are much better than boring road courses. Drivers can pass at any moment on an oval. Road courses have limited passing opportinity. Also you can put more seats on ovals so more people can come to watch.
There is much more action in Nextel Cup. Leaders change all the time. Drivers can draft off each other to make passes.
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Just like 240^drift, you are also missing the point. We've already established in this thread that when it comes to the different types of motorsports, it's really a matter of preference. Everyone has a different view on what makes racing exciting. Depending on the person, oval-racing can be a positive or a negative. Road courses are boring for some and exciting for others. There's too many people that point out the negatives of Formula 1 and NASCAR, even though they are two of the most successful series in the world and the U.S. respectively.
 
RACECAR
I confident that he'll do well. one thing I wonder though is how will he be classified? I'm not Quite sure Rookies in their Early Thirties exist.
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Dick Trickle was the NASCAR Winston Cup Rookie of the Year in 1989...at age 49!
 
*McLaren*
That must be in terms of literally because Toyota has been in the Craftsmen Truck Series since 1979.
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*WOOSH!* That one went right over my head. I had no idea the truck series was that old! :sly:

m.piedgros
 
YSSMAN
Did they ever offically find out what the top-speed is on an F1 car? I herd Toyota ran a test at Boneville not too long ago and only hit 230-ish MPH, dissapointing if a NASCAR stock-car can do the same thing...
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I thought it was a modified Honda (BAR). The only numbers I've seen were in KPH ... I heard very close to, 400km/h. I don't know what that is in "real" speeds but, it sounds fast.

m.piedgros
 
400 km/h = 250 mph. The Honda car went over that speed in one direction at Bonneville, but couldn't repeat it on the way back, so its average speed ended up around 246 mph, a bit short of their goal.

There is no quantifiable "top speed" on an F1 car. The power to weight ratio and bodywork cD suggest unholy speeds are possible, but the stability of the car at such speeds would be suspect.
 
When Rusty ran the Intrepid at 240 at Talledega he said it was quite scary, but given a flat piece of ground and an open space, it would be interesting to see what the car could achieve flat-out. I'm certain however that a DEI-powered Monte Carlo or Roush-Powered Fusion could probably outdo the Penske-Powered Charger in the speed department given their overall lack of success on the superspeedways, so 250 doesn't seem completely out of the question.

Something to think about: How much fuel do you think the 348ci V8 is burning at 240+ MPH? If they can do nearly 70 miles on a 14 gallon tank at 200 MPH, we must be talking about 3 MPG or less at 240 +...
 
=V8 Power=
If you mean top speed, today they easily hit 200mph at the Brickyard
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Somewhere in the range of 210 - 220 mph in F1 cars with their current V8 engines.
=V8 Power=
O how I disagree with every word you just said. Heres my version.
Why do so many people like F1? The cars have no clutch, they have TCS, they have ridiculous amounts of downforce. All this makes it just that much easier to drive. Another problem I have with F1, Schumacher!! He wins pretty much every race. Its always him. Why do you watch a race that you already know who the winner will be? Why did I not watch the US Grand Prix this year? Because I already knew who would win the d.am thing.

Nextel Cup:
Its bare bones racing. Power steering is the only convience the cars have. They are powered by good old carb V8s.
Oval tracks are much better than boring road courses. Drivers can pass at any moment on an oval. Road courses have limited passing opportinity. Also you can put more seats on ovals so more people can come to watch.
There is much more action in Nextel Cup. Leaders change all the time. Drivers can draft off each other to make passes.
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You haven´t really watched F1 for quite a while, have you? And before stating that an F1 is easy to drive, I suggest you drive one...

I can´t say that I regularly watch any Nextel races - especially not live, since I live in Sweden - but I happen to watch it sometimes, and I´m not that impressed by the sport as is, allthough I am impressed by the drivers (it does take a huge amount of skill to get through a race), and their race engineers/strategists. The few races held on roadcourses are IMO the most exciting to watch, and I don´t think the Nextel series would be hurt from more of those. The greatest downside though, has to be the length of the races! I mean, come on, 300 laps or so??? Half would be plenty enough! Especially when all you sit and wait for are incidents or pitstops, to see who has their strategy worked out the best. Overall, Nextel cup is pretty entertaining, and it´s great easy-tv when you´re hung over!
 

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