F1 cars in GT4

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I thought that these cars were one of the best things about the game what let them down was the Ai could not drive them fast. Great in a two player race with your mates. i hope they bring them back with a few more aditions maybe about 10 cars that would be cool, from different era's of racing.
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i no but that only lets you drive the current cars. a game like gran turismo allows players to drive older f1 cars and gts handling suits them very well.
 
First off, this thread belongs in the Rumor & Speculation forum, and second, this has been talked about there already.

The fact is, Kazunori Yamauchi said in a presonal interview with someone at PE that the F1 cars of GT3 were out, but the "F1-style" of cars was in. What does this mean exactly? We have to wait and see for ourselves when GT4 comes out.
 
I think it should be assumed that by "F1-Style", Kazunori meant non-licensed F1 knockoffs, the template for which was set in GT3. Licensing difficulties yet again. It's implicit in their design that they're meant to be F1, but they're really not, though I've heard them variously referred to as Indy and CART by people who can't readily tell the difference. In a previous interview, he'd basically said the GT3 F1s would be back, which about sums it up.
 
It's just not that hard, James1985.
 
My question here is: Which F1-cars will return? Remember, the PAL GT3 had Polyphony 001 and 002, the 001 being completely unique to PAL. Also, all GT4 versions must be compatible with each other, meaning that there cannot be much uniqueness in each version. Every version must have exactly the same cars, however, they don't need to be unlockable. Getting cars available on other versions could be solved through internet trading - which is where these F1 cars come in. Will it possible to purschase a fifteen-million cr. F1 over the internet, despite it not being available on one selfs version?
 
I think it's generally accepted that the six NTSC F1s, as opposed to the two PAL F1s, came about as a result of increased development delays leading up to the North American release, versus those for other regions. Since the F1s weren't actually licensed per se, PD had carte blanche to just throw in as many as they wanted, and that's probably what they did, given the extra time they had to do it in.

As for GT4, if it really does include extensive online gaming capabilities (and reports have it that Kazunori is currently a little disappointed in the PS2s network capabilities), then it stands to reason all discs in all regions will need to include data for all cars. I suspect we'll be seeing more and different F1s in GT4, since they likely will have the same freedom of development as they did in GT3, only with more foresight and experience, and with proper timeframes for design.

I find it interesting to note that if trading and downloading of cars becomes possible online, as has been rumoured to be forthcoming, then there has to be some way for your game system to access this new car data. Where do they intend for us to store this not-included-on-the-game-disc material? Did I hear something about a PS2 hard drive?
 
The online aspect from what I read seems very limited, I doubt if there will online trading available. :(
 
Originally posted by Atomic Wedgie
Did I hear something about a PS2 hard drive?
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Yes, it's a 40GB HD that is already available in Japan. It is set to reach North America in November. If is a must have for the new online FF game, and will be an option for GT4. There is a rumor of downloadable F1 cars, (some old Ferraris), so far, but no word on any new tracks or such.
 
Originally posted by Freddie
Remember, the PAL GT3 had Polyphony 001 and 002, the 001 being completely unique to PAL.
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That's kind of true, whilst still being kind of not.

The P001 AND P002 were completely unique to PAL - insofar as their body shapes were not represented in NTSC versions. However the cars used the same chassis (and settings, in case anyone wondered) as the F094/S and F688/S respectively.

The only difference, in fact, between the PAL and NTSC variants of the two cars were the nosecones - the P001 was a 1994 Williams (as was the F094/S, obviously) but with a 1995 McLaren-Peugeot nosecone. Not sure exactly what the nose on the P002 was off, but it didn't have those freaky massive sidebars the F688/S does.


Edit - pictures! :D

P001
poly001.jpg


F094/S
165.jpg


P002
poly002.jpg


F688/S
168.jpg


NTSC F1 images courtesy of http://www.gt3times.com/info/cars/.
 
That's actually first time I've seen a comparison between the Polyphonies and the F's, I've read plenty of them, but this is the first time I've actually seen them. Well then, the Polyphonies are halfway unique for PAL.;)
 
ok well i have a question then
what is the difference between the f-1 series of cars and the cart series of cars as far as HP and stuff especially comparing the cars with the ones in GT3
 
CARTs have less power, much more weight and less acheivable maximum downforce than F1s. Modern F1 cars have "roughly" 800hp - the Williams have 850, I believe - from a NA 3.5 V10 and a kerb weight of 540kg, including driver.
 
Originally posted by Famine
CARTs have less power, much more weight and less acheivable maximum downforce than F1s. Modern F1 cars have "roughly" 800hp - the Williams have 850, I believe - from a NA 3.5 V10 and a kerb weight of 540kg, including driver.
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Actually, you should add Champ Cars don't handle nearly as well, have less powerful brakes, and tires are nowhere near as grippy as F1 tires. As for the horespower figures of a modern F1 car, the power for the top teams (Ferrari and BMW anyway) is closer to 900 hp, and Mercedes trailing slightly behind. The engines nowadays are a 3.0L V10 configuration (I know the cars in GT3 were 3.5L V10's, but the regulations have changed since then in Formula One) As far as the weight, they are actually not allowed to weigh less than 600 kg, I'm not quite sure why in GT3 they weigh 540, because even if that is the weight of the cars without fluids, it just doesn't seem right they would weight them in the method :confused: In real life anyway, the car has to weigh at least 600 kg with all fluids (except fuel) and driver.

The only benefit running a Champ Car style vehicle in GT4 would be that on a track like Test Course, because F1 cars produce huge amounts of downforce, FAR more than a Champ Car can, so in turn they produce much more drag than that of a their American counterparts. So around a track like Test Course, you would achieve higher top speeds than in an F1 car, but other than that, the F1 car would be much faster around any track than a Champ Car, prime example is the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve. Pole position in 2002 for CART was a 1:18.959, for F1, it was a 1:12.836

Hope I helped ;)
 
I always forget if the kerb weight is right WITH me, or right WITHOUT me (I'm roughly 60kg)... Nuts :D...

I thought they were still 3.5 V10 (and I didn't actually know the GT1 ones were :D Although I'd assume the P002 and the F/6s would be 1.5 litre turbos?).

The comparison I always see is that in terms of technology on the cars, F1 cars are jet fighters and CARTs are tractors. They still have a proper manual gearbox in CART, don't they?
 
As for the 3.5L V10's, they were used up until 1997 I do believe, and were switched to 3.0L units for the 1998 season along with the introduction of the narrower track cars (1.5m down from 2m) and grooved racing tires, this was all in an attempt by the FIA to reduce the speeds of the cars, which really didn't work too well in the long run :lol:

As for the cars with the 1.5L turbos, again, that was a different era, lol. Back in the 80's, teams could either use a turbocharged 1.5L engine (I4 or V6) or a naturally aspirated engine of 3.5L displacement (V8, V10, or V12). So that is why some cars in GT3 were 1.5L, and some were 3.5L. Well... actually the F090/S and F094/S/H had no choice, because as of 1990, the FIA banned turbocharging, the reason Honda left Formula One actually, until they came back all out in 2000.

As for the comparison, yes, you're pretty much correct :lol: CART still uses a "manual" gearbox, in that it is a sequential shifter (pull towards you to shift up, push away to shift down) whereas in F1 they are now fully automatic (banned next year) and they have paddles on the steering wheel to shift (left to shift down, right to shift up), and a fully automatic clutch. As of next year, the drivers will have to engage the shifting themselves (using the paddles) and will no longer be able to have the ECU do it for them (Ferrari's system anyway can shift a gear in LESS than 5 one-thousandths of second :eek: ), however the clutch will still be automatic as always, it's just they will have to have a third mini-paddle on the wheel for it at the start of races, as launch control is to be banned as well. However, I'm not so certain these devices will still be banned, as the FIA came to some agreement that if the engine manufacturers (Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Renault, Toyota, Ford) can supply customer engines at an "affordable price" of $10 million per season, these devices will not be banned, however I'm not sure how that is playing out anymore.

Again, I hope I helped ;)
 
Originally posted by Majarvis
As for the 3.5L V10's, they were used up until 1997 I do believe, and were switched to 3.0L units for the 1998 season along with the introduction of the narrower track cars (1.5m down from 2m) and grooved racing tires, this was all in an attempt by the FIA to reduce the speeds of the cars, which really didn't work too well in the long run :lol:
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No, people always say "But they're slowing the cars down, they're not as quick as they used to be"... And that's why Kimi Raikonnen set the fastest ever lap of Monaco this year. And Montoya set the record for the fastest ever F1 lap of anything (highest average speed) last year...

Ferrari supply customer engines to Sauber, don't they? So they're going to get around this rule nicely. Again! Banning TCS would mess Renault up good and proper too - they gain like 2 rows at the start of each race - Alonso lept out of the blocks off pole like a bloody rocket (literally) at Hungary...
 
Exactly, look at the fact that in 2001 they reduced the wing size, and then teams produced more downforce than before :lol:

Yes, Ferrari does, so they're fine, but the other teams (except Ford) are in big trouble if they can't. As far as TC, that's safe, that won't be banned, so Renault is in the good.
 
majarvis you are mostly right after the tradgic 1994 season the engines were lowared to 3.0l for 1995 the 3.5l rule was introduced in 1988 the last year of the turbos. the na cars in 1988 were alowed to be lighter then the 1.5l turbos so a closer season would happen but turbos at that point were still leagues ahead of the 3.5l na engines.
 
renault built the first turbo engine with a bit of a loop hole in the rules in 1966 when the 3.0 l came back it still alowed for a 1.5l supercharged engine but no one took it serousely untill renault came in 1977
 
One other minor difference, though worth mentioning, is that F1s no longer wear full-on slicks. They actually have treads now, thus breaking (insofar as I know) a lifelong tradition in the sport.
 
Originally posted by Atomic Wedgie
One other minor difference, though worth mentioning, is that F1s no longer wear full-on slicks. They actually have treads now, thus breaking (insofar as I know) a lifelong tradition in the sport.
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Well... not quite treads, they're grooves, quite a difference. It's been like that since 1998 as an attempt by the FIA to slow the speeds the cars carry through the corners, but in fact now that there has been a tire war since 2001, the cars are actually going quicker than they did with slicks pre-1998. The reason is with slicks, the rubber compound is generally harder, because there is more rubber in contact with the track, but with grooved tires, they can run the compound softer because less tire is being worn away, or so I've read on AtlasF1. As for breaking a lifelong tradition, I wouldn't go that far, because when Formula One started in 1950, and even before then when it wasn't even called Formula One, the tires always had actual treads on them, and it was only until the mid, to late 1970's that slicks found their way to Formula One.

I'd like to add that there are actually some benefits to running grooved racing-slicks. They are a little more forgiving than full slicks, in that when you are on the limit of adhesion, with slicks, the grip will just go, and you lose traction and spin out. But with grooves, they give you a little warning, like "Ok, you're getting close, I'm gonna go now, I'm gonna go, I'm going" so it's a little easier to find the limit with grooved racing-slicks, that's exactly what Cristiano da Matta said when he first tested the Toyota TF102 last year.
 
Perhaps it's possible to make rubber compounds on grooved tires softer - without having them break down at a faster rate - simply as a function of the grooves acting like ventilation channels, delaying the normal heat buildup of high-friction contact.

I would have thought grooved tires required softer compounds to make up for reduced contact, although I believe lateral (not like for a motorcycle, but rather in the sense of sideways motion) grip is increased with treads of any kind, so then we can go harder again.

For that matter, couldn't the grooves themselves act as miniature venturi tunnel-like devices, effectively sucking the car to the pavement? Probably the effect would be minor, hence negligible, but it's a thought.

Uhh... Should look into that.
 
Yes, that's what I said, grooved racing tires have a softer rubber compound than slicks do, because of the fact they have a smaller contact patch, and less rubber is worn away.

As for the tread idea, the only benefit a tread provides is in rain, or dirt. On asphalt, it actually slows you down, because even less rubber is in contact with the track, and adds no additional traction benefits.
 
Originally posted by Famine
No, people always say "But they're slowing the cars down, they're not as quick as they used to be"... And that's why Kimi Raikonnen set the fastest ever lap of Monaco this year.
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Monaco was modified this year which lead to lap time changes being much faster. But that doesnt take away the fact that F1 cars are faster than ever right now.
 
Originally posted by T13R
Monaco was modified this year which lead to lap time changes being much faster. But that doesnt take away the fact that F1 cars are faster than ever right now.
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