F2007 Physics and Realism

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mu22stang

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mu22stang
I cannot seem to find a coherent and articulate argument for or against the realism of the F2007 on gt5p. The quote from Kazunori Yamauchi with IGN states his opinion on the subject, "the most precise simulation of an F1 car in existence." I am not so sure...

Here's what I know:

Using a G25 and running Pro Physics w/ All Aids including ABS OFF

Positives

1) Rendering - Eh, I would say they're about 95% there with this racecar.
2) Engine sound is a bit scratchy and raspy, but overall pretty good. Not sure how exact it is, but GT is not "known" for its great engine sounds.
3) I feel acceleration up to about 150-160mph is pretty realistic.
4) High speed cornering/G capabilities seem within the bounds of F1.
5) Low speed cornering is difficult due to low grip. This of course is very true of F1 due to their low weight and available grip without speed for aero downforce.

Negatives

1) "Drafting Effect", as with the rest of the game, is embellished.
2) Lack of Aerodynamic effects on high speed acceleration is not accounted for as accurately as I would imagine, but just like drafting, a gamewide epidemic.

In Question

1) Available acceleration grip - The car seems to be pretty hard to spin out by virtue of oversteer, even when dipping deep in the throttle on corner exits. This seems to be my biggest concern and I'm at odds with this. I know grip is compromised once again at low speeds because the aero can't provide the necessary artificial weight for friction, but if the tires can permit +/- 3.5g, their low speed grip may be sufficient enough to inhibit excessive tire spin under hard acceleration.
 
The thing that annoys me about the F2007 is it seems really 'bouncy'... I understand it'd jolt around, but it seems too smooth
 
I think other than the things you've already noted PD has done a pretty good job with the car. Biggest problem I see is like you said the way over the top draft effect. Secondly its way too disconnected,cant seem to feel all 4 corners. On the positive its a little less forgiving than GT4s Formula car, which was simply on brake or matted. Which come to think of it thats the way real F1 cars of that time were with all the TC they used to have. If it were any more realistic few of us I doubt would be able to complete a competitive lap.
 
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The quote from Kazunori Yamauchi with IGN states his opinion on the subject, "the most precise simulation of an F1 car in existence." I am not so sure...
Click to expand...
I don't think F1 teams use this ''precise simulation'' for their development programs ;)

Draw from that what you will.
 
mu22stang
I cannot seem to find a coherent and articulate argument for or against the realism of the F2007 on gt5p. The quote from Kazunori Yamauchi with IGN states his opinion on the subject, "the most precise simulation of an F1 car in existence." I am not so sure...

Here's what I know:

Using a G25 and running Pro Physics w/ All Aids including ABS OFF

Positives

1) Rendering - Eh, I would say they're about 95% there with this racecar.
2) Engine sound is a bit scratchy and raspy, but overall pretty good. Not sure how exact it is, but GT is not "known" for its great engine sounds.
3) I feel acceleration up to about 150-160mph is pretty realistic.
4) High speed cornering/G capabilities seem within the bounds of F1.
5) Low speed cornering is difficult due to low grip. This of course is very true of F1 due to their low weight and available grip without speed for aero downforce.

Negatives

1) "Drafting Effect", as with the rest of the game, is embellished.
2) Lack of Aerodynamic effects on high speed acceleration is not accounted for as accurately as I would imagine, but just like drafting, a gamewide epidemic.

In Question

1) Available acceleration grip - The car seems to be pretty hard to spin out by virtue of oversteer, even when dipping deep in the throttle on corner exits. This seems to be my biggest concern and I'm at odds with this. I know grip is compromised once again at low speeds because the aero can't provide the necessary artificial weight for friction, but if the tires can permit +/- 3.5g, their low speed grip may be sufficient enough to inhibit excessive tire spin under hard acceleration.
Click to expand...

Great. what tires are you using?
N1 are the ones for in game to be realistic and compared to Real F1..
Can you post some times on this thread on how FUJI F1 did in real life last week, and how few players from GT5P with N1 tires did? It was in the other post, but it will be good you post these times here to confirm it or not on how the F2007 is compared to real life at fuji.

Besides it is not that PRECISES. Even KAZ himself said that GT5 is far off real cars, and it only offers about HALF the simulation as real cars can. So By the time we will get GT7 I think thats when this game will be true to life.
 
I can see this topic going off on many tangents...

In my opinion I don't want the GT series to become a Simulator. I prefer it still as a game, where I can pick up the 6-axis, turn it on and race without worrying too much about set-up etc.

Simulators have their place, but can you always really be bothered to spend over an hour practicing, then an hour qualifying and then doing a 2 hour race with pitstop strategies, flags, damage to tyres, engines, gearboxes, suspension etc...?

Games and Sims both have their place.

Most F1 teams use simulators for their development. These will be and ARE the best examples of real life F1 simulators in the world. And they are constantly being updated. It's only just scratching the surface at the moment...
 
both physics and engine sound are unreal.
 
RPM_crx
I can see this topic going off on many tangents...

In my opinion I don't want the GT series to become a Simulator. I prefer it still as a game, where I can pick up the 6-axis, turn it on and race without worrying too much about set-up etc.
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This is a simulator, and besides, even if it becomes a FULL simulator you will still have you're standard physics. So do not complain. And if in the Future GT5 will only have PRO physics, then play need for speed or other arcade games... I think it's not good to say that people do not want this game to be a simulator since GT has so many hard core fans.
That is why there is PRO and STD physics modes, and I am sticking with PRO since I am a hardcore sim racer.
 
well I've never driven an F1 irl, but I do know that it it feels terribly fake compared to PC simulators...

not to speak of the horror of driving it with a 900 deg steering wheel....
 
Feels, but somehow GT5P version has pretty darn close times to real life.. Maybe it's better? who knows... Burnout feels lot better to me then GT5, does that make it a sim?
 
Have you played R-factor, GTR2...or any other PC sims Nox?

I respect your opinion, but to me GT is very far away from being a ''simulator''.
 
the thing feels like it has traction control on when it's turned off...

anyway, Im not bothered driving it untill gt5 comes with an option to adjust steering rotation....
 
I think steering is off and not.. because sure its 900degrees, but if you only use 360, it seems these 360 degrees seem to be true to real F1 turn angle... after the 360degree is just extra turn radius and unrealistic.
Well F1 car is basically best handling car in the world, as well very well balanced. So maybe thats why it feels like it has Controls on?
Well someone give me 10000000 billion dollars so i can test drive real F1 :)
 
Do you think your own driving skills are worthey of the drive in a modern F1 car?

;)
 
I know it can't be easy. I remember a Top Gear episode in which Richard Hammond test drove I believe a Renault F1. He had enough trouble with some of the other Formula cars, let alone the F1!
 


A shortened version of the above mentioned clip. The full clip shows Hammond struggling just to pull away without stalling for the first 3 or 4 attempts before the engine has to be heated up again.



From later on in the same episode, an interview with Lewis Hamilton - who himself says it's very difficult to drive a F1 car.
 
This was from another thread.... If they didnt get the driving experience right they atleast got the rest right... because this looks pretty darn good.. :)

 
In my view, the f2007 seems unrealistic. Now i haven't driven it in quite a while so maybe its physics have changed some what, but i found that it had far too much grip, was too easy to drive & felt like it was floating on the track. Ive pretty much grown up playing F1 games, starting with GP2 all the through to rfactor & its mods and most of those pc games (at least f1 challenge & rfactor in particular) seem & feel real to me. Yet when i drive the f2007 it just feels totally different & wrong.

Oh and wasn't the above video found to be sped up & slowed down so it matched the real life footage. I'm sure I've read that somewhere.
 
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I think they put f2007 in the game for advertisement so it doesnt seem real in every aspect
 
[supersonic-88];3190565
Oh and wasn't the above video found to be sped up & slowed down so it matched the real life footage. I'm sure I've read that somewhere.
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Yeah, I've read that also, although apparently it didn't have to be changed much ( a few % each way every now and then )

In the spirit of PD, looks nice though :)
 
letdown427
Yeah, I've read that also, although apparently it didn't have to be changed much ( a few % each way every now and then )

In the spirit of PD, looks nice though :)
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It does look very nice & i love how they made the fingers move to tap the gear paddles 👍

What i can't work out though, is the laps i can set as well as that video, which as you say, only needed small adjustments to match the real life footage, are very close to real life lap times yet when i drive the car it just doesn't feel right, seems overly fast & way too much grip, yet the times are roughly correct :confused:
 
when you guys say there is too much grip are you refering to all the time or at certain speeds? the only time i see real F1 cars spin is at low speeds around corners. when the aero is working they are glued to the ground so there will be tons of grip. with N1 tires and stock downforce it seems to me to be pretty good. ther is a few areas of some tracks that seem to make it feel like it has too much grip though. the sound good enough for me but wouldn't mind if they tweak it for the better.
 
I dont know, like i said just coming from years of pc sim games, where it just feels right, then you go & drive the f2007 on GT5P, there's a big difference. Maybe I'm using the wrong tires on it & making it 'too grippy'. Ill have a go tomorrow with N1 tires and see what its like.
 
bicycleshorts
who himself says it's very difficult to drive a F1 car.
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I'm sure he'd change his mind if he no longer had to worry about tyre damage, cold brakes, G-forces and such. ;) That said, I still have to say the F2007 isn't perfect, but I don't think it's absolutely terrible.
 
[supersonic-88];3190565
Oh and wasn't the above video found to be sped up & slowed down so it matched the real life footage. I'm sure I've read that somewhere.
Click to expand...

yeah I suspected that as well... but as my post stated if they didnt get the physics right... they did get the rest right (background, road, etc.) Because the similarities are very evident here.... :)
 
Jackington
I'm sure he'd change his mind if he no longer had to worry about tyre damage, cold brakes, G-forces and such. ;) That said, I still have to say the F2007 isn't perfect, but I don't think it's absolutely terrible.
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I agree, and when KY says that GT5P is about 50% reality, he is taking those into effect and not just physics. Being fearless is key in making good laptimes and the lack of these realistic features makes it possible to explore the utmost limits of the car every turn, every lap.

But, after watching the recorded Japanese GP at Fuji, I think it's clear the cars aren't making similar laps despite similar times. IMO the lowered power rating, ~687hp, has a lot to do with that. I think a slightly underpowered virtual F1 car with massively (probably embellished) grippy tires may be able to perform lap times comprabable to a 900-1000hp real F1 with realistic grip. Comparing my replay of a 1:18.xxxx on N1 with Hamilton's onboard pole run, I carry much more speed in the turns and appear to have far less acceleration than the McL (Not to mention that the posted record as of last night was 1:14.xxxx). If the F1s on GT5P had more power and higher drag effect from the aero, I think this thing would work itself out. The higher power would require a more careful throttle modulation and may cause the lap times to only slightly change, but the driving skill would increase, reflecting the focus and skill necessary to drive F1s in reality.

On a side note, I think the steering ratio of the G25 is fine for the F1.
 
I think anyone who want to comment on the physics of the F2007 should try to get below 100th rank on time trial of, let say, Suzuka.

I'm also at first thought the physic was unrealistic. Because I didn't push to the limit and was driving much slower than the top guy. I didn't like it too much and didn't bother trying. Then one day I decided to give it one week, not using any other car except F2007 and try to break 100th rank. (I did it in 4 days, btw.)

I've never driven one irl and also never play any sims, but I think it's pretty close to the real thing judging from the replay of the top guy in time trial, how I had to drive it to be faster and compare it to what I see the F1 drivers do in their car on TV.

On TV, the F1 is VERY stable, atleast for a team like Ferrari. The best way, I think, is to compare it to the qualifying lap. Less variables. Look at how the driver control their car. It is the best handling in the world.

From my experience in the game, I think the hard part is driving at the limit consistently every lap getting within .5 sec of your best. I think it's one of the most demanding car to drive in the game. Try driving any car at the limit for a given period of time and compare which is the most tiring. For me, it has to be the F2007. And this is even without the G-Force.
 
RPM_crx
Do you think your own driving skills are worthey of the drive in a modern F1 car?

;)
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Of course I am.
Just look!
 
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