Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
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I had the same problems with my stock CSR-E along with a few others - not sure what causes this. Doesn't happen with CSWs. Some guys have said if they drag their hand on the wheel lightly during calibration it helps alleviate this issue. It's also been reported that just restarting the wheel a couple times until it works right can work as well. (That's what I used to do) I think @Blue028 had this issue - IIRC he figured something out maybe? This tag should bring him by.
 
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That's exactly what I have been doing to work around (multiple restarts). Also sometimes on connecting to the pc it doesn't kick but the pc makes the USB connected noise, when this happens the wheel doesn't work. Sometimes it takes a few attempts but it always works properly in the end :)
 
Not sure about the connection problem, maybe try different USB ports on your pc? I don't think I've had that problem before, as for the wheel feeling weak is it just around center or weaker overall?
 
Oh, must have been another guy, sorry. For my stock CSR-E when this happened, the feedback was just weaker all around, as if the voltage to the motors had been turned down. I remember someone commenting that dragging a hand on the wheel rim during calibration solved it for him, so I'd guess it's something to do with the initial startup calibration.
 
I vaguely recall reading something about it a while back Eric, tried dragging my hand, but it doesn't feel right then. I have checked connections, cables and ports. Even checked on another PC. I am going to check the PCB for dry joints and loose connections later.
 
Dunno, but if it's disconnected and you have your temp sensor still Gareth, try plugging it in but just leave it hanging without attaching it to anything? Maybe it's looking for that reading and not seeing it, causing a glitch.
 
Thanks guys. temp sensor is disconnected, will plug it back in as you suggest Eric. Typically, it has worked perfectly everytime today!
 
Hello again, I just wanted to make a post the recognize two members here who have been a huge help to me over the past several months.

Blue028 has been an incredible help since I got my first CSRE wheel a few months back (used of course). Not only has he continued to help me with all kinds of troubleshooting questions (which I bother him with quite often :) ), but he also sold me a whole bunch of important parts for my elite base. He gave me an excellent deal, so even with shipping from AU to USA the cost was excellent. The package arrived today after a long run through sea mail and everything was packaged perfectly and in even better condition than I expected. He even threw in another part I needed for free after we had made the deal. As great as it is to have these parts, it is even better to have someone to go to when I cannot figure something out on my own. Blue is definitely worthy of recognition for his contributions to this thread and the help he has provided to the community.
Thanks again Blue!

The other member I would like to mention is ekretz, who not only is the catalyst for this entire thread, but the provider of much (probably most) of the little known csre/csw information available anywhere. Not only information about these bases which cannot be found elsewhere, but also all the information and resources pertaining to his famous modifications. As of recently I have been seeking assistance from ekretz myself and he has been extremely helpful. He is also helping me out with a couple random bits I need for my csw and csre, which I greatly appreciate. Thank you very much ekretz :)

Both ekretz and Blue028 are, in my opinion, invaluable members of the fanatec and SIM racing community. All you have to do is read through this thread to know for yourself.

Anyways I just really wanted to mention this in the thread, especially after receiving help from ekretz recently and receiving the parts I received from Blue today. Thanks a lot guys, keep driving!
 
:embarrassed: Thank you for the kind words, I like to help and to be honest most of what I can help with is things I have learned either from participating in this thread or from getting help from eKretz myself. It's great to be a part of this little community of sim enthusiasts and seeing in general people helping each other out, it's all in the name of having some fun at the end of the day :cheers:
 
Figured I'd post this here in case it was of use to anyone as someone requested it to help with their wheel project. Feel free to copy/save it for later or repost wherever you like. Harness plug pinout is viewing the end of the plug while it's unplugged.

 
Hey guys, I thought I would post here with a weird issue I am having with my Xbox One Uni Hub and CSW V1. For some reason, the buttons on the button box do not match up properly with the buttons on the built in hub when testing inputs within the driver. The button boxes should be duplicates of the buttons on the built in panel but for some reason they are not. I have included a YouTube video I uploaded to show the "issue". I have tried driver 226 with firmware v115 and now am using driver 231 and firmware 141 with the same results. I thought I would post this here before creating a new thread in case anyone else has experienced this behavior with the UHX. Aside from the duplicate inputs not properly matching up properly the hub seems to work well with the CSW V1. My hope is that this is a driver/firmware related issue, and not an issue with the hub itself.

Youtube video showing the behavior within the driver:

 
seth francis
Hey guys, I thought I would post here with a weird issue I am having with my Xbox One Uni Hub and CSW V1. For some reason, the buttons on the button box do not match up properly with the buttons on the built in hub when testing inputs within the driver. The button boxes should be duplicates of the buttons on the built in panel but for some reason they are not. I have included a YouTube video I uploaded to show the "issue". I have tried driver 226 with firmware v115 and now am using driver 231 and firmware 141 with the same results. I thought I would post this here before creating a new thread in case anyone else has experienced this behavior with the UHX. Aside from the duplicate inputs not properly matching up properly the hub seems to work well with the CSW V1. My hope is that this is a driver/firmware related issue, and not an issue with the hub itself.

Youtube video showing the behavior within the driver:

Click to expand...

Pull the covers off the buttons and move them to the proper spots. The button covers are removable if I remember correctly.
 
Hey farkrakr (hilarious name btw), I know they are removable. I would like to have them work in the stock configuration though, since that is the configuration shipped out with the hub I figure it should function properly and the inputs should match. If that is not an option that perhaps jumbling up the aesthetics will be my only option, or removing the caps completely.
 
seth francis
Hey farkrakr (hilarious name btw), I know they are removable. I would like to have them work in the stock configuration though, since that is the configuration shipped out with the hub I figure it should function properly and the inputs should match. If that is not an option that perhaps jumbling up the aesthetics will be my only option, or removing the caps completely.
Click to expand...
My thinking was maybe someone at the factory just put them on randomly and maybe just needed rearranging. I didn't know that they actually had the buttons wired wrong (if that's the issue). Does your current button layout match pics of other hubs?
 
Yes, and it matches the manual and driver picture. Thats what is weird. I think it is a driver/firmware issue because I remember having a similar issue with certain drivers when using my older Porsche wheels.
 
Yes, probably firmware then. The CSW had the same issue before in a past firmware also IIRC. Seems weird that it doesn't work right out of the gate as shipped though. Better email Fanatec CS if you haven't already.
 
Hey Ekritz, thank you for the response. Believe it or not, I read through the manual and this behavior is correct. When pressing the buttons on the boxes within the driver, the second illumination is lighting over what that function does on PS3! For some reason, the button boxes, and built in panel, do not use the same button icon as each other. So in the manual, it says that Y on the button box is start, and the three line button on the built in panel is also start. It also says that RB, RT, and RSB on the button boxes, are actually square, triangle, and circle on PS3. Likewise, Y, X, and B on the built in hub also represent square, triangle, and circle. I have no idea why they didn't just make the button box icons directly duplicate the built in panel, but for some reason they designed it so the labels in their stock configuration do not properly match. I have a feeling this is the same way the non-xbox hub works as far as button placement goes, so they left it that way, and just placed the button caps where they are aesthetically pleasing lol. On the other hand, with Xbone the button placement is correct, and the button boxes match the built in panel. According to the manual, many of the button box buttons are completely separate inputs from the built in panel, therefore they should be able to be mapped separate from the built in panel. I haven't tested this yet but I will test it in iracing when I get a chance. I still want to do some more overall testing but it appears everything is working properly according to the manual, as strange as it may be.

On another note, I may need to seek some advice from you soon! I am currently talking to an isrtv member regarding the purchase of a buhler modded csw. He said the kit was one of your builds which makes me confident :) It does need some work, one pulley has a stripped set screw, and one of the 4 included buhler motors has the motor leads broken off flush at the plastic shroud. I am thinking I can fix those issues to get the setup going though. He is also including a 10 amp PSU, air pump, and all of the hoses and fittings. I am pretty excited to get one of these setups and try it out. I have heard how strong the buhler mod is but until finding this deal it was outside my budget. Basically I would be getting this setup for a good price because it needs some work and re-assembly. If there is anything you think I should look out for let me know and I will ask the seller about that detail. I think there are two different motor variations used in the buhler mods, but I don't know the difference between them. This kit comes with 4 motors model #147-0114-00.
 
Seth, how's that go again? RTFM! LOL.

As far as the Bühler'ed CSW there's not a whole lot to go wrong other than the PCB. The motors have proven pretty much bulletproof. Haven't had a single failure so far. The older motors are a little bit less powerful and use a bit more amperage, but otherwise they are close to identical in terms of performance. You might want to ask how the belts are - they can wear out if somebody was running the wheel for a long time with much slippage. It sounds like you should be able to get it going again without much trouble at all. The broken off motor leads should be pretty easy to fix - I'd just use a die grinder or Dremel to grind back some of the plastic and resolder the wires to the remnants of the original tabs.
 
Lol, I know I was confused when I was reading through the manual.

As for the buhler cse deal, I am currently waiting to hear back from the seller. I do have a spare set of belts thanks to blue, and the buhler csw deal comes with a spare elite base (minus pcb and motors) for parts, I think that has belts with it. I think I can fix the motor lead issue the way you suggested, but I'm wondering if I should look into the newer motors. Since I'll already have all of the other components needed for the mod at a good price it might be worth having motors that draw less amperage. I am a bit obsessed with cooling, and if it will make a noticeable difference in amp draw and therefore heat maybe it is worth upgrading. Is it a fairly significant difference in heat at the PCB and motor from what you've noticed between the old and new motors? On my stock elite and CSW pcb I run a 12v brushless horizontal amplifier fan that blows across the heat sink. It is loud and moves a lot of air! I check the temp at the heat sink mounting screw every now and then and typically read around 100*f, which doesn't even feel hot to the touch. I haven't measured the temp without the fan but both PCBs seem to get quite hot behind the heat sink without additional cooling. It is most likely safe, as it never burned my fingers or anything, but I just like to keep things as cool as possible. I was also playing around with replacing the thermal paste with some arctic silver 5 or another thermal paste but I'm not sure what would be best to use for this application?
 
Actually, the deal comes with the csw, which has the buhler mod, the elite is just a base with no PCB or motors. Basically there is 4 old style buhler motors, slip ring (not installed), CSW base with buhler mod installed but side panels and back panel removed to repair a broken lead on one of the motors, everything to run the buhler mod (lines, PSU, pump etc), a spare elite base with no PCB/motors, elite rim PCB with hub harnesses, stock motor block, and stock PSU. I am still waiting to hear back about what exactly is included as far as hardware and what not goes. The side and back panels are removed as well as some other bits on each base but I believe all is included. I think he is asking a good price ($350), I just want to make sure everything I need is there to get the wheel going, and that the motors and CSW PCB are still solid. The seller is a guy named "angry dingo" on ISRTV.

Edit: I am also a little worried that I will buy/fix everything, and find that the wheel is not that much more powerful. The reliability will be nice but I would really like some more torque, especially with my uni hub and 320mm rim. I know it is possible to get serious power out of the buhler mod with higher voltages, but I'm not sure how much of an improvement I will feel with a 24V 10A PSU. I actually like the torque and power of the elite with the stock or Formula rim, and when running in skeleton with added cooling I don't get any power loss that I notice (I don't run for long stints, usually a half hour at most fallowed by a five to ten minute brake or so). I would be happy to get a feeling with the heavy hub and 320mm rim that is similar, or slightly stronger, than the elite with the stock/Formula rim at 100% ffb. I play a lot of GT6, so I like strong FFB :) It is just so hard to know what to expect with no hands on experience ya know, plus I'm a worry wort :/
 
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At 24V a Bühler motored wheel will still be FAR stronger than the stock CSW V1 and CSR-E. It's actually even stronger than the CSW V2. Check the first post for the actual numbers. The new motors run a bit cooler but the #1 benefit really is that they are brand new - so no commutator/brush wear - also the motor shafts are larger in diameter, so belt tension won't flex the shafts as much. I think that wheel was Jerome's old wheel IIRC. The only thing that will probably give you pause about changing to the newer motors is that the move would require some new parts. The old style motors are not interchangeable with the new because they have different hole mounting locations and different pilot snout diameters (the parts of the motors that register in the larger motor mount holes), as well as the air inlet hole is in a little different location. So probably better to stick with the old motors unless you want to sell the old setup to fund the new. I'm still running the old style motors in my wheel from 2 years ago, so it's not like they're in any way deficient.
 
You can't really make a direct comparison like that because the CSW doesn't limit current to the motors like the T500 does, and on top of that, who knows if the gear ratios are anywhere near the same. All that being said, the T500's Bühler motor - IF it were not current limited - would be about the same strength as 2 of the Bühler motors used for this mod. But since the motor in the T500 IS current limited to nowhere near full amperage draw it doesn't really compute like that, and the stock T500 has about the same peak torque as the stock CSW.
 
eKretz
You can't really make a direct comparison like that because the CSW doesn't limit current to the motors like the T500 does, and on top of that, who knows if the gear ratios are anywhere near the same. All that being said, the T500's Bühler motor - IF it were not current limited - would be about the same strength as 2 of the Bühler motors used for this mod. But since the motor in the T500 IS current limited to nowhere near full amperage draw it doesn't really compute like that, and the stock T500 has about the same peak torque as the stock CSW.
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Ahh, so is that why the csw mod is even possible? Because if provided with more current, and given a motor to use that extra power, the PCB will allow it to pass through. As opposed to the T500, which has a PCB that will only allow a specified limit of amperage?

Also, what is the "thermistor" mod, I may be spelling that wrong? I read about it earlier in this thread. I saw that the thermistor mod can be used with the CSW, but I'm not sure what that is. I tried looking through the thread further to find more info but this is a long thread and I couldn't find a description lol.
 
Yes, it makes things pretty easy with the CSW I guess. I don't actually have a T500 so I don't know exactly what they are doing to limit current - I just know that the power supply for the wheel doesn't supply anywhere near the full stall current for that motor.

It may be that they are using lower current to limit motor heat, then running a limit on the PWM applied to the motor so it never tries to draw maximum stall current. That would be my guess anyway. That would basically make the 0 - 100% torque demand use something more like 0 - 50% of the motors full stall current and torque - but since the motor is so much stronger than the CSW's stock motors it's still about the same torque.

That might explain the reason that the acceleration curve for the T500's wheel rotation on the Wheelcheck test is a bit more curved than the CSW's too, as the motor is a little starved for power so it doesn't accelerate quite as quickly.

The thermistor "mod" basically just fools the wheel into thinking the temp is at a certain threshold so the fans speed up. I don't really use it anymore as I prefer to just run the fans directly at full speed.
 
I have a T500, you aren't missing anything not having one lol. I find it very rough and notchy. I was wondering myself how they limit the current (aside from just the power supply). I've heard that starving a motor of amperage will also put strain on the motor or controller. I don't know how factual this is, but I know certain R/C systems, such as castle brushless systems, require not only a minimum voltage but also a minimum discharge rate on the battery. If using a battery with a lower discharge rate, the speed controller will be damaged due to a lack of current. If this theory is true (and brushed as well as brushless systems are effected) than Tmaster must have designed something in the circuitry to prevent the motor from ever requesting more than the psu can supply. I have no idea what though. I do have one I don't mind tearing into if you ever need any tests or reverse engineering performed :).

The thermistor mod sounds pretty cool, however I also like the idea of running the stock fans externally, that is what I was doing with my elite motor, using an old Porsche wheel psu. I would like to get a variable fan controller of some sort though that I could use to run both base fans in the csw as well as my additional PCB fan. I just have to see if they make ones that goes up to roughly 30 volts or so.

BTW, I got a package in the mail today, thank you very much for that :)
 

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