Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
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eKretz
You should do the free friction-reducing mods discussed earlier in the thread - between those and getting your belt tensions just right you will net a very big difference in terms of feel at least (though it probably won't help your lap times a whole lot, lol).

Could the aluminum be pieces of the heat sink fins maybe? Can't think of what else it might be.
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I'll look for those friction-reducing ideas.

Thought maybe those who have torn into these units might recognize the shape and size of those fragments. I haven't yet so I don't know what the heat sink looks like when removed.
 
I don't recognize them at all, but the only thin aluminum in the wheel is the heat sink. The stock heat "sink" is actually 10 separate sheets of thin aluminum.
 
eKretz
Post some pictures of those stock motors you pulled apart. I would like to see the one you're describing.
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I seem to have misplaced the motors but compared to the pictures of yours one of mine had the commutator flared out at the winding end but not evenly, the motor still worked though.
 
I wonder if the soldered on internal ring was still attached or did it break loose like the one I showed photos of? It could have been due to an impact with the ring if it fell off.

I have a nice little pile of failed motors here that I am thinking of cutting open and grouping according to failure mode (with photos). Anybody want to see that?

I've noticed there are 2 distinct failure modes - one is an internal short of some variety (possibly between windings as their max temperature is surely exceeded, destroying the insulation) and the other is possibly extreme glazing of the brush/comm interface as the motors weaken and draw considerably less stall amperage.
 
It was broken as I was a bit rough with opening them but the wear pattern was very distinct compared to the other motor and the picture you posted, it had a wavy blur compared to the straight line pattern yours showed, also both of mine had started to turn blue from heat stress as yours did.

I was surprised at how poorly the heat sinks were attached, there was what looked to be a 1mm thick stainless steel (poor thermal conductivity) ring between the motor and heatsink fins and there was no thermal paste, it seemed like a waste of effort making and installing them just to use them so inefficiently.
 
Yep, that's for sure. The steel ring is necessary to contain and redirect the magnetic flux (it's called a flux ring). It basically makes the magnets much stronger than they'd be without it and directs all the magnetic force in rather than letting it escape to the outside of the can. The lack of thermal paste is pretty inexcusable though. I can't imagine they were doing much at all that way.
 
eKretz
Yep, that's for sure. The steel ring is necessary to contain and redirect the magnetic flux (it's called a flux ring). It basically makes the magnets much stronger than they'd be without it and directs all the magnetic force in rather than letting it escape to the outside of the can. The lack of thermal paste is pretty inexcusable though. I can't imagine they were doing much at all that way.
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See I learn something new all the time from you. I thought it was there as a spacer to make the heat sinks that where available off the shelf fit. Didn't know it needs to be there for the motors run efficient.
 
Sorry guys it's a bit off topic for this thread but here goes. I have the CSW and have started to notice that when turning to the left I get this clicking type sound (hard to explain) I have read and seen a video of people with similar issues and they are mostly all saying that its the little bolts inside the wheel rim and the ones in the base. I have checked and they seem to wobble about so this would explain my problem is the same as theirs.

Does anybody know what size allen key I need for this, unbelievably the ones I have none of them fit.
 
Special 1
Sorry guys it's a bit off topic for this thread but here goes. I have the CSW and have started to notice that when turning to the left I get this clicking type sound (hard to explain) I have read and seen a video of people with similar issues and they are mostly all saying that its the little bolts inside the wheel rim and the ones in the base. I have checked and they seem to wobble about so this would explain my problem is the same as theirs.

Does anybody know what size allen key I need for this, unbelievably the ones I have none of them fit.
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The allen is 3mm. The five hex screws inside the base's wheel mount were loose on mine when it was new.

I remember having a mysterious clicking sound when turning the wheel with power off that I couldn't identify. But after getting it back from a motor replacement the clicking is gone. That would seem to indicate the sound was from failing motors but I didn't think so at the time. I'm assuming its just a coincidence but no idea why its gone now.
 
Special 1
Sorry guys it's a bit off topic for this thread but here goes. I have the CSW and have started to notice that when turning to the left I get this clicking type sound (hard to explain) I have read and seen a video of people with similar issues and they are mostly all saying that its the little bolts inside the wheel rim and the ones in the base. I have checked and they seem to wobble about so this would explain my problem is the same as theirs.

Does anybody know what size allen key I need for this, unbelievably the ones I have none of them fit.
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It's also probably metric mm, not english mm since it's from Germany and all.


Jerome
 
eKretz
Yep, that's for sure. The steel ring is necessary to contain and redirect the magnetic flux (it's called a flux ring). It basically makes the magnets much stronger than they'd be without it and directs all the magnetic force in rather than letting it escape to the outside of the can. The lack of thermal paste is pretty inexcusable though. I can't imagine they were doing much at all that way.
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So do you think its worth applying thermal paste between the motor can and heat sink or would that compromise the flux ring function of the heat sink tube?
 
MartyU
So do you think its worth applying thermal paste between the motor can and heat sink or would that compromise the flux ring function of the heat sink tube?
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Sure, it can't hurt. Won't affect the magnetism at all (as long as you put them back just how you found them - a little movement won't hurt but try to get the gap in the same spot just to be safe) and can only help with heat transfer
 
The clicking Marty had was probably just the brushes hanging on the corners of damaged segments on the commutator. Loose screws are a much easier fix!
 
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Thanks for the help guys, I take it you are all in agreement with Marty and that it's just a 3mm one that I need, is this correct?
 
Guys, new mod: I just found a really good item to get rid of the stock crappy coiled cable Fanatec uses down the center of the steering shaft. In industry they use things called rotary unions or slip rings that have spring-loaded contacts that conduct from one end of the rotary to the other so it can be rotated 360 degrees but still conduct continuously from one end to the other. This should eliminate a little more drag from the wires coiling and also eliminate the possibility of them rubbing/shorting/breaking due to extended use.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281282959564?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

SlipRing1.jpg~original


SlipRing2.jpg~original


Also video here if you want to see how it works:

http://www.adafruit.com/products/736
 
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Since I recently got my csw back from motor replacement I tried the fish scale force test that quickly showed how heat effects the torque generated.

Pulling the scale repeatedly against the soft stop through an arc perpendicular to the radius of the wheel (the GT) at as constant a speed as I could the load would drop noticeably from over 8 lbs to under 7 lbs in about 30 seconds and continue at a slower rate. After about a minute the cooling fans would speed up showing how rapidly the motor heat was rising. Same with a G27 from mid 5 lbs to mid 4 lbs.

My point here is to confirm the effect of heat on reduce motor torque and importance of cooling especially in a sim wheel where the motors are operating around peak stall current.
 
What disturbs me even more than the power reduction is the decrease of details in FFB with heat. I'm racing rFactor2, I think rF2 is already known for it's excellent and detailed FFB. Everytime when I start racing with my CSR-E with cold (and not defect) motors I'm like wow, these details are amazing. After 15 min racing the FFB not only loses power but feels sluggish. So there have to be more going on in the motors when hot, not only losing power.
 
Well the heat weakens all the forces, not just the stronger ones, so it's no surprise that the small detail drops off. They have a lot less to lose.
 
Still there have to be more. It's like first listening to a 256 kbps mp3 audio file which reduces to a 32kbps mp3. A 256 kbps mp3 listened with less volume still sounds like a 256kbps mp3. Same in rFactor2, if I reduce FFB-strength with cold motors there are still all the details, they are only weaker. Not when motors are hot, there are less details and it feels sluggish
 
Well I think it's the combined effects of the reduced electrical current and the reduced magnet power. Both are caused by the heat and they can be very significant losses once the motor gets very hot (and remember they are getting hot enough to turn blue!)
 
Would it not be possible to have a firmware that enables a greater reduction of the heavier forces though? Maybe a sliding scale reduction from the stronger to more subtle effects.
 
I wonder if there is a test/measurement which changes these subjective feelings into some objective results.
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Sure, do a linearity test with the Wheelcheck program when cold and then after running an hour long race. Guarantee you'll see a difference.
 
Would certainly be smart to not have the subtle stuff disappearing almost completely. Ultimately I suppose it would be like a relative compression rather than a shelf pull-down.

ps. I realise that you liked my post accidentally, but I still like you even though you don't truly like me. Hehe.
 
Uhhh, Whut? I liked your post purposely because I thought it was a good idea and something that they should do. Lacking in self confidence tonight? :D
 
Oh, for some reason it looked like I might have snuck in there as you were hitting the like button on vittorio's post. Me so crazy.

I always have plenty of humility though, it's just that it's mostly the false kind.
 

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