Faster out of corners with or without ABS?

  • Thread starter Grippy
  • 30 comments
  • 3,596 views

Does ABS make you faster out of corners?

  • Yes, I am faster with ABS on

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • No, faster without ABS

    Votes: 3 14.3%
  • ABS 1, works for me

    Votes: 10 47.6%
  • ABS on/off varies on car/setup

    Votes: 3 14.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 14.3%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

Grippy

(Banned)
381
Australia
Australia
Got a mod for the G27 recently, stiffens up the brake nicely but not sure whether or not ABS 0 is really the way to go. What brake balance adjustments do you use? Do you tune it according to weight distribution or the balance of the car?
I am also running the latest v1.22 of GT6, if that makes any difference
 
To answer the poll question, I don't think ABS will make you faster out of a corner; that will depend on your entry speed, line through the corner & how much traction you can extract from the car.
Slow in, fast out will always have its benefits. If you enter the corner too fast, you'll be scrambling to maintain control, keep it clean and get the best exit possible.
Can ABS help you enter the corner faster? That depends on a lot of variables.
I would advise you to pick a car,
take it to your favorite track & run some back to back testing trying the different ABS levels.
You can't argue with results.
My own opinion of ABS is, the lower the setting, the more effective the braking power in a straightline but the more prone the car is to 'locking' the brakes as soon as you add steering angle & offer the car to a corner.
If I ever use ABS it's always ABS1. I never use it on a race car or a road car that didn't have it as standard. If a car had it as standard equipment, I'll play with the brake bias settings until I find something that suits my preference.
I should also add that I use a DS3
with the square as my brake. If I gently roll my thumb onto the brake button, I can feel an ABS effect coming through the DS3.
As for the various steering wheel/pedal combinations available, there's plenty of mods out there for acquiring a realistic brake feeling from springs & squash balls to padding of different sorts.
Long post but I hope it helps.
 
I like to tune the brake balance so that I get the wheels to lock at about 3/4 of the pedal input. It gives good response, while still leaving enough room to dab the brakes for weight transfer without getting too much effect. The final 1/4 beyond the lock point also gives some room to use additional braking force when you have more grip, for instance when braking uphill, or from high speed in a car with a lot of downforce.

I adjust the front / rear balance so that the front locks up slightly before the rear, to get as much braking force as possible but without spinning out. Another benefit of a good brake balance is that the grip of the front and the rear is reduced by about the same amount. Too much front bias can make the car difficult to turn, and too much rear bias can make the car difficult to control.

As for ABS off or on, it depends on what you're after. I think ABS off gives me better car control, as it lets me know where the grip limit is. But ABS on usually gives shorter braking distance, as you can instantly hit the grip limit and won't have to worry about the wheels locking up.

ABS off also looks more spectacular in a race, as you get those puffs of smoke when locking up :)

Edit: As for corner exit, I don't think ABS matters. It can have a big impact on corner entry though.
 
To answer the poll question, I don't think ABS will make you faster out of a corner; that will depend on your entry speed, line through the corner & how much traction you can extract from the car.
Slow in, fast out will always have its benefits. If you enter the corner too fast, you'll be scrambling to maintain control, keep it clean and get the best exit possible.
Can ABS help you enter the corner faster? That depends on a lot of variables.
I would advise you to pick a car,
take it to your favorite track & run some back to back testing trying the different ABS levels.
You can't argue with results.
My own opinion of ABS is, the lower the setting, the more effective the braking power in a straightline but the more prone the car is to 'locking' the brakes as soon as you add steering angle & offer the car to a corner.
If I ever use ABS it's always ABS1. I never use it on a race car or a road car that didn't have it as standard. If a car had it as standard equipment, I'll play with the brake bias settings until I find something that suits my preference.
I should also add that I use a DS3
with the square as my brake. If I gently roll my thumb onto the brake button, I can feel an ABS effect coming through the DS3.
As for the various steering wheel/pedal combinations available, there's plenty of mods out there for acquiring a realistic brake feeling from springs & squash balls to padding of different sorts.
Long post but I hope it helps.
Good write up, I actually appreciate the long post.
Yes I do notice braking strength might be a tad less with more ABS. I've been trying this trick for a while without ABS or ABS1 and a low rear decel plus brake bias towards the rear I find if I can brake real hard, sometimes to the point of near or lockup of the rear wheels I can sort of 'initiate' a slight 10 degree drift to give me better turn in, this works especially well with stable FR cars that otherwise understeer into most corners. So that might be my only alternative to ABS, since I haven't found the right brake balance settings for trail braking. I will continue to practice as long as GT6 servers are up.
Some people I see using anywhere from 3-4 ABS for 4WD cars like skylines and subarus and it does stop easy lockup if you haven't the time to perfect your brake balance.
 
Good write up, I actually appreciate the long post.
Yes I do notice braking strength might be a tad less with more ABS. I've been trying this trick for a while without ABS or ABS1 and a low rear decel plus brake bias towards the rear I find if I can brake real hard, sometimes to the point of near or lockup of the rear wheels I can sort of 'initiate' a slight 10 degree drift to give me better turn in, this works especially well with stable FR cars that otherwise understeer into most corners. So that might be my only alternative to ABS, since I haven't found the right brake balance settings for trail braking. I will continue to practice as long as GT6 servers are up.
Some people I see using anywhere from 3-4 ABS for 4WD cars like skylines and subarus and it does stop easy lockup if you haven't the time to perfect your brake balance.
I notice you mention the GT6 servers. I should add that due to circumstances beyond my control, I never play online so all of my previous post is from offline experience.
 
It's possible to get fast laps with out using ABS. You will want to use a brake ballance that is not too much to the rear. You can use high values, it just means that you use half (or less) of the pedals travel most of the time. You can use high pedal pressure for a very short moment without locking the brakes at the start of a braking area which will allow you to shorten your braking distance. This is most effective in a high power car at the end of a long straight.

It certainly takes some learning time to get good at driving without ABS and to get very fast without ABS takes a high level of skill.
 
That's good mod, I don't have any plans to upgrade yet but maybe a friend could use it. Thanks.
Don't try or you're forced to buy.
I like to drive without ABS and this mod with small tweaking gives you same brake feeling as real brake pedal, just new world for sim driving.
 
I agree wit @Pete05 ABS at exit is meaningless. It helps you keep from lock skidding under breaking but in general you will have a longer braking zone with ABS than with out if you are good at break control. If you just mash the button/pedal and wait for the car to slow down, ABS on will have better control and shorter distances than ABS off.
Now traction control can help the higher powered cars like LMP's, vipers, vetts, ferrari, etc etc etc at exit but some good gearing, suspension and throttle control will beat TCS use any day of the week.
I use break control and ABS1, I slam the breaks and when I hear the chipping of the tires and back off till it stops, works extremely well for me. But I can't trail break to save my life the car always rolls over it's self and spins so maybe it's time to move on. (Not likely with my limited play time, i'd rather enjoy myself than be frustrated for the little time i get)
 
I agree wit @Pete05 in general you will have a longer braking zone with ABS than with out if you are good at break control.

I think GT6 models ABS a bit differently from real life, would you say with allot of practice, ABS off could actually be faster? Is it worth sinking the hours in? I have seen very few drivers in seasonal events get a top-ten replay without the ABS so from my understanding cornering is generally slower without ABS. I still haven't figured out for sure but I do intend to learn trail braking best I can in this game, came pretty close yesterday in an MR type.
 
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I think GT6 models ABS a bit differently from real life, would you say with allot of practice, ABS off could actually be faster? Is it worth sinking the hours in? I have seen very few drivers in seasonal events get a top-ten replay without the ABS so from my understanding cornering is generally slower without ABS. I still haven't figured out for sure but I do intend to learn trail braking best I can in this game, came pretty close yesterday in an MR type.
It does, but it still acts fairly simlar. Smash the brakes in your car till you feel the ABS kick in and than back off till it shuts off and you will feel your car slow down much faster. I've been nearly rear ended on several occasions in the snow due to doing that, the other drivers eye's were as big as dinner plates, white knuckles and I could tell they were standing on the brakes and praying they were going to stop in time. I shouldn't laugh but that amuses me in a twisted way. I just left off brakes and give a touch of gas and move far enough forward to not get hit.

*The following statement is MY OPINION don't like it, deal with it.*
As for why top drivers use ABS, it provides consistancy, the tire model is odd in the game (no flaming that's my opinion) so you can lock the tires really fast in the game with the harder compounds they force us on for the TT's, so with ABS hitting the brakes too hard won't cause you to insta-spin/slide. To my knowledge real racing teams don't use ABS, the added weight is not worth it, as any good driver is going to know how hard they smash the pedal and not lock up and if they do they back off pretty fast.

As for trail braking, a good tune and ABS with practice can do it but you need tons of brake control to do it, left footing helps alot as well to control weight shift.
 
Got a mod for the G27 recently, stiffens up the brake nicely but not sure whether or not ABS 0 is really the way to go. What brake balance adjustments do you use? Do you tune it according to weight distribution or the balance of the car?
I am also running the latest v1.22 of GT6, if that makes any difference


Ah, the ABS :) It's simple brake assist, and if this is your first time trying ABS 0, I would highly recommended give these threads a read ( they are from GT5 ).
But, before that, a quote from Amar212, a great write about ABS in GT5 that also applies in GT6 ( there's a little difference in how brake balance implemented in GT6 - which makes it easier to drive ABS 0 than in GT5 )

Here is my guide for the non-ABS, made for the wheel users few months ago.

NON-ABS BRAKING part #1
GENERAL ADVICES

- Different tyre-compounds call for the slightly different Brake Balance. You will notice how there is a difference in values if you experiment with the Comfort and Sport compound. However, it goes into category of the fine-tuning so results through experimenting will come with the time

- *ABS* in GT5 is not representation of the real-life ABS, it just uses that "name". ABS in GT5 is some kind of permanent braking assist *override* that not only prevents wheel-lock, but also have some invisible traction-control that nullify the suspension-modelling and equalises unique characteristics of the vehicles resulting with ability to turn while braking and never loose grip

- when ABS is OFF many cars will just go to snap-oversteer once the brakes are applied in full. You must never brake with full-constant power - you would never brake like that in the real-life too. In order to get maximum for your braking, you have to learn to brake is *sequences* - press/release/press/release/press/release/etc.

- you have to reconsider everything you know about braking-points and configurations for every track. With ABS off, suspension modelling becomes "free" and suddenly all elevations (lateral and longitudinal) of the surface becomes major factor in the driving. The sensation is vastly different than with ABS ON, so be prepared to revise everything you've learned to that point.

- all FR/MR/RR cars - being road or racing - have to be set with front bias noticeably stronger than rear. Through my testing I still haven't found any single FR/MR/RR car that calls for BB of the rear-brakes stronger than 2. To be honest, majority needs only 1. The key is to find proper front-strength with rear-one adjusted to point where rear brakes does not lock the rear-axle. You will know the point where rear-axle is not compromised once the car does not launch itself into snap-oversteer when braking. Once you set the rear-strength and bypass axle-lockup, you may fell that car is not stopping properly as it should. From that point, you have to force the front strength of braking until you find desired power.

On the above note, one of my last tests gave me 6/1 bias for the Ford Mark IV Race Car '67 where I needed 6/1 for proper balance of the stopping power.

NON ABS BRAKING Part #2
HOW TO MAKE NON-ABS BRAKING ACTUALLY WORK IN PRAXIS

This one have few steps.

Step A > The Mighty Sponge Ball™

Brake-pedals on all of the middle-prices wheels - Logitech DFP, DFGT, etc.. - are too loose and too soft to produce a usable sensitivity of travel in order to cope with the non-ABS braking. However, for there is a solution for that problem: The Mighty Sponge Ball™

1018a.jpg


Solution is simple: just insert the sponge under the brake and you're ready to go. Sponge will allow you to dose the actual brake-power more subtly and to actually have control of the brake-travel.

Of course, any hard-sponged material will do even better than simple sponge ball, especially high-density sponges, like neoprene for example. Once you've settled the step A) it is time for step B.

Step B > The Brake Balance Adjustment ™ - The Key to Master the non-ABS Braking

In order to achieve maximum performance and feel out of the GT5 physics engine and wheel support, you have to manually tweak few options in the game and accept few issues. First, you should go to the wheel option and set the steering to Simulation (although it affects only 270-wheels, but it is no-brainer, so just do it) and turn the Power Steering to OFF.

As for accepting issues, there is one thing you have to get use to when going into the universe of the non-ABS braking: you have to manually dial the ABS to OFF for the every car prior to the race in the Race Settings menu (unfortunately, you can't do it in the Settings menu in the Garage for the car of your choice). Once done, you're ready for the most important thing: The Brake Balance Adjustment ™

By default, every car in GT5 comes with Brake Balance set to 5/5 (front/rear). With ABS OFF and the default 5/5 value, there is no way you can properly drive the car, because that default value is messing the complete balance of the suspension and produces practically undrivable car. So, you have to manually adjust the Brake Balance for the every car you wish to use with ABS OFF.

General idea about adjust the Brake Balance comes form basic presumption of weight-distribution behaviour while braking: when you brake, the central mass of the vehicle and inertia moves from the back to the front. Thus all cars in real life have bigger and stronger brakes on the front-wheels and GT5 utilises the same logic. In order to adjust the BB, you have to re-distribute the BB values towards front. But before going onto that, one explanation.

Although Gran Turismo 5 uses the name of ABS (Anti Brake-Lock System) for that particular assist, I personally do not find it as representation/simulation of the actual ABS. I think it is nothing more than basic braking-assist which *overrides* the intertia-momentum on suspension and nullify the wheel-lock. Even ABS1 is too effective in what it does, so I do not find any mean in having the option to set it up to 10 (which game allows), so basically it is *ABS* just by name. I see it as nothing else but basic brake assist tool. Now back to BB setting.

Every car BB is different, but there is some generalisation possible. FR, RR and MR cars will all benefit from the higher setting towards the front. For example, I mainly use 3/1 setting for majority of my road FR, RR and MR cars. Of course, there are exceptions like Ferrari F40 where sheer mass of the vehicle asks for higher setting in the front in order to achieve proper distribution of the weight and stop the rear-axle from going into oversteer because of the insufficient braking-power on the front wheels > so for the F40 I use 5/1 setting for example and for F430 4/1 (I also use 4/1 for SLS, LFA, M3 and similar vehicles).

**notice: after the new suspension model introduced by 2.07 "Academy" update, the rear-axle balance is always best to keep in "1". If on "2", it will lock the rear-brakes too much, thus "1" is the only proper balance.

Actual weight of the vehicle makes a lot of difference too. Ferrari 599 calls for the 5/1 setting (Sport Hard tyres) because of the weight, while stock Corvette ZR-1 C6 RM - you mentioned it in your post - calls for 6/1 balance in order to achieve stability and efficiency of braking.

For FF and 4WD cars I generally use 3/2 or 4/3 setting in order to combat understeer on the front-wheels. GT does not take pad-size into concern (check the SHIRAKAWA Akira's elaborate here), but in order to combat understeer and lockup on FF and 4WD cars I tend to *equalize* the pressure on the front-axle by minimizing the deistribution of the braking-balance from the front wheels and force the rear-axle oversteer in order to have natural entry to the apex.

PLEASE NOTICE that I use Fanatec CSP pedals and values I've described are made with that in focus. Many of my friends who use Logitech G25/27 are using slightly lower settings (where I use 4/1 they use 3/1, etc..) because the threshold of the actual brake-sets is different for every manufacturer. Experimenting is the key.

Another thing becomes important when advanced settings comes into perspective: such as having Tire Wear ON, or driving on the wet surfaces with changeable weather/track conditions. To cut it short, the RA Adjust Functions (that in-race screen you can call-in and adjust some setting on the fly in the real-time with either Manetino-wheel on your DFGT or button-combination on the other wheels) becomes very important during the advanced races, because the tire-heat and degradation can call for altering the BB, as well as the wet surfaces. However, you will come to the appropriate conclusions by yourself through experimenting during time.

Small notice is how settings adjusted through RAMenu menu does not *stay* on the car through the venues if you quit the race before the end. So if you changed the settings during your Free Time run in online-lounge fro example, you will not have them applied once the race starts > values are set to those in main car-Settings menu. So if you come to the better solution through RAMenu during the Free race, you will have to alter them again through RAMenu once the race starts if you didn't changed them in the Settings menu.

Of course, GT5 now offers option to save multiple Settings (A/B/C, in the Settings menu), so you can manually set the ABS OFF setting for every car in one of the "Sheets" - under the B for example - in order to use it when you like. Notice how another issue is that you have to first set the desired Setting Sheet (B for example), than go to Race Options and set ABS to OFF, and than come back to settings and apply the proper BB settings. That is because once you set the ABS to OFF in the Race Option settings (where "A Settings Sheet" is always default one), it stays like that for the particular car everywhere you go with it (including online). If you opt for ABS OFF in the default "A Settings Sheet" so you will have to manually re-set it to 1 every time you want to race the car with the ABS ON. A bit confusing, but once you get used to it, it becomes just another Gran Turismo Player Masochistic Routine™.


NON-ABS BRAKING part #3
Step C >
Every Car Becomes Unique Without ABS™

I know that all above probably sounds complicating, but in fact it is not. Once you install the The Mighty Sponge Ball™ (for users of wheels that needs one) and get used to the logic of the Brake Balance settings, the new world opens. Once you disengage the braking-assist (one we call the ABS for reasons of commodity and easier perception for the casual players) you will finally get the proper feeling of the unique physics of the every car.

Disengaging the brake-assist and diving into the world of proper Brake Balance settings will enhance the unique "characteristics sensation" for every vehicle and make it even more *recognisable*. Once you begin to utilise the correct BB settings, you will be able to actually feel the pavement-ripping torque of the F40, the feel of the Aventador's mass decelerating while eating the front tires or difference between the braking-characteristics of all GT500 cars which pretty much handles inside the same handicap while ABS is turned on.

Take your time and test on the low-powered cars for start, preferably on Tsukuba and than moving to the Trial Mountain. Mazdas MX-5/RX-7 are great for FR cars basics, and once you master them you can move to the MR class with the F430 as the best car for that task. Of course, test all of them with their default tires in order to develop the feel for the actual tire-threshold and BB values you need to apply.

Good luck and I hope you'll have the great time once you indulge yourself into this beautiful universe.

And the OP for a no ABS guide thread :

So you want to Drive without ABS...

Taking the step to driving without ABS is a big one, the new characteristics unlocked from each car mean that driving in GT5 takes on a whole new dimension.

Starting Out

Input Devices:
Controller- difficult and I wouldn't advise it. That's not to say that it's not possible/fun. Recommended to set the brake and gas to either the right stick or to L2/R2.
DFGT (what I use)/G25/G27- Relatively mushy brake pedal, but the force feedback makes up for it in terms of feeling the brakes. Never had a real issue with the mushiness though.
Higher end (Clubsports etc.)- Should be great, never tried anything like this myself.

At the end of the day, no pedal is going to replicate the feedback you get from a real life brake.

Car choice and track choice are important to starting out. Choose a low powered car that you're comfortable with and is, most importantly, stable.

I'd recommend something like the Premium Honda Civic Type-R (EK) completely stock. It doesn't take too much to lock the wheels, however when it does it's neutral and doesn't spit you off into the nearest barrier. This way you can get used to dealing with front wheel lock up and learn how the car reacts. I'd certainly recommend front wheel drive cars to start with. RWD cars tend to react very differently to braking.

Track choice is also rather important, although it may not seem it. You'll want to choose something that has nice, simple corners that don't require some deft brake work: avoid Daytona, Suzuka and Tsukuba as turn 1 at those tracks are a nightmare to the inexperienced no ABSer. I'd recommend something like Monza to get used to high-speed braking and something like Nurburgring GP/D for more complexity and a bit more trailbraking.

Beginner's guide to no ABS brake balance settings:

What you have to realise when beginning driving with no ABS is that no car has the same braking characteristic. Some will be supremely stable (generally speaking FFs), some will react violently to trail braking (generally 4WDs and MRs) and some will have very little threshold before the tyres lock (Camaro SS '10 etc.).

First things first, brake balance is your friend. The GT5 standard 5:5 brake balance will send you into a spin the first time you touch the brakes. Because of this, you have to adjust the brake balance to suit each vehicle's individual characteristics, both through the overall braking power (how high your values are) and the ratio of front to rear bias. Generally speaking a bias at which the front locks before the rear is desirable, as in the case of lock up, you'll plow into the corner, rather than going in taillights first.

Technically having a brake bias where you can lock the brakes at any speed is best because you can reach the threshold at any speed, however I've found it to be faster and certainly more consistent to set so you can hold 100% for a few seconds (i.e. you'll lock up below 100mph). This is also a lot more realistic and a lot more fun.

Here's my method for getting a reasonable setting:

Road Cars:

Starting balance: 4:2

From there, if you find you are locking up the front too easily, move each value down 1, to 3:1. If you still find you're locking the front too easily, try 2:1 or 2:0. Beyond that you are losing too much braking force at high speed. It's also good to note that a brake value of 0, does not mean no braking on those wheels, it is just the minimum value.

In some cars, for example a lot of 4WD cars, you'll find that the rear slides out under trailbraking. This is why I always use a starting value of 5:2 for 4WDs. If you find you're locking too easily, try 4:1.

For MR cars, they are always a bit unstable and even with a good BB setting they'll generally still get loose when trailbraking. However start from 4:2 and tailor from there. With MRs, I generally find 4:2 or 4:1 to be best.

Racing Cars

Starting Balance: 6:3 (for older cars I'd start with 4-2, for example I use 4:1 on my Ford GT MkIV)

Because racing cars have higher grip tyres and downforce, they can withstand more braking force. That's not to say, however, that some racing cars won't lock easily. For example, the Autobacs Garaiya lock it's front tyres rather easily, so for that car I use a balance of 4:2.

Apply the same rules as for road cars to tailor your BB. Locking the rear? Try 6:2 or 5:2. Locking the front too easily? Try 4:2 or 5:2.

Important notes on BB setting:




    • These are just my tips, some people like to use higher balances, some people like lower ones. Find what suits you.
    • Each track may require a different balance. A track with lots of high speed braking zones (La Sarthe, Monza etc.) might be better if you raise your BB a bit. A track like Laguna Seca where trailbraking is very important and the heavy braking zones are bumpy (T2 & Corkscrew), might be better suited with a slightly lower bias.
    • Locking the inside wheel isn't necessarily a BB issue. It can also be down to a bad diff setting. The Deceleration value can be tailored to lock the inside or outside wheel first, try to get a happy medium.
    • Adjust your BB to suit the situation you're using it in. For example, in a one off hot lap, running higher brake balances is preferable to gain that higher braking force (especially at high speed). However in a race where tyre wear is a factor, you may want to lower your BB slightly to minimise lock up.
    • You'll also want to change you BB to suit the state of both the weather and the state of your tyres. If it's wet, you'll lock up a lot faster (I mean a lot, it's very easy to underestimate) so keep the same ration of F:R, but lower the values (using 6:3? Go to 4:2 or even 2:1 etc.). If your front tyres are getting worn too fast, flick the rear value up slightly, or take 1 click off your front one. If your rears are wearing, put a bit more front on. You'll also want to change your bias even if they're wearing evenly, however, keep the same ratio.
General Tips for Braking with no ABS




    • First off and very importantly; don't be afraid of locking up, it's not that big a deal. Simply ease back up on the pedal until your tyres regain grip. Don't jump off the pedal, especially if your turning, as that unsettles the car and will send an already unstable car, over the edge.
    • Listen and (if you're using a wheel) Feel. Due to the distinct lack of feedback that your pedal/stick/button gives you, you need to learn to listen to when the tyres are close to locking and, more importantly, feel it in the force feedback. You'll know when you feel it, it's a lightening of the wheel.
    • Understand threshold braking: The faster you are going the more force the brakes can apply to the tyres, as your speed decreases, so does the brake threshold (the exact point at which the tyre loses grip and locks). This means that in order to brake without ABS you need to tailor your brake pressure according to the speed at which you're entering the corner. For a fast corner, you may need to apply 100% pressure for a split second before slowly easing the pedal out, keeping it in line with the brake threshold for maximum braking efficiency. This is tricky to do and will take some practise. You can always hold a steady lowish pressure, however you will not be braking as effectively.
    • Trail Braking: turning uses up some of the available grip of your tyres, this means that in order to trail brake into a corner, you can't use all the available grip of the tyres by threshold braking. Instead you have to adjust your braking to the amount of steering angle you are using. More steering angle=less brake pressure. Simples.
    • When using no ABS you need to be aware of the track surface, if there's a bump in the braking zone (Corkscrew, Tokyo Reverse T1) you need to modulate the brake pedal to avoid lock up (ease up).
    • Some cars just don't work well without ABS, some do. Car choice is a key part of enjoying no ABS driving.
    • Smoking the inside wheel every now and then doesn't really matter, we all do it, however in a race where tyre wear is a factor, you may want to be a little more cautious.
    • Use it to your advantage. Some cars, especially 4WD ones, you can slide the car slightly by braking and turning hard. I find that if used correctly and appropriately, this can help you immensely on twisty tracks.
    • Don't be afraid to race people using ABS, challenge yourself.

      But why would I want to make myself slower?...

      Simply put, you won't. If you spend enough time practising and develop a feel for the brakes you'll be putting in times on a par with your ABS times. The fact is that if you get a perfect lap without ABS, it will be as good as one with, however you have more things to go wrong and therefore might not be as consistent.

      It will take time to get used to no ABS, it isn't going to happen overnight. So don't expect to be able to match your ABS times straight away, it may well take a good 10 hours of practise to get anywhere close.

      You need to practise. You need to get to know what brake balances work for you, how much you can brake while turning and the way the car reacts to braking in general.
      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      And most important of all: Have Fun
      It's not for some people and don't try and force it if you don't enjoy it. However, don't disregard turning ABS off without giving it a proper go first. 👍

I searched but couldn't find anything similar, however, apologies if it's already been done.

Anyway, I hope this is helpful and if anyone has any suggestions of what to add, please tell me and I'll do so.


And the threads that should give immense information and tips on driving without ABS :

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/abs-0-community-where-are-you.264980/

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/guide-so-you-want-to-drive-without-abs-please-read-op.267564/

Also, my GT5 no ABS video thread that shows how one drive without any assist :

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...86gt-turbo-600-hp-madrid-comfort-soft.265497/

Regarding GT5 vs GT6 brake balance :

The main difference is in GT5 the BB you set is what applied to the car, so if you use 5/5 BB, that's what you are using. GT6 has slight difference, even on 5/5 BB, each car now has built in bias that varies from car to car. so at 5/5 BB, the front wheel usually still have more brake force ( front bias ) and will lock up earlier, this allows GT6 cars to run higher rear BB without ABS ( a necessity to make the most of the braking force/rotation ) Back in GT5, if you use 5/5, both axle would lock up almost a the same time, so a front bias value is needed, like 7/3 or 3/1.

Right now in GT6, I often run higher rear BB than front, like 6/8, 5/8/, 7/10.

Another key difference is in GT5, brake strength was too much, lock up are easier to have. GT6 standard brakes is much weaker which allows easier braking modulation, to get GT5 brakes level in GT6, a racing brakes kit is needed.
 
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ABS 0 doesn't give you any extra braking force, it just increases the chance of a lock up on entry. Aside from role playing (ie. real racing drivers don't use ABS so neither will I) there is no advantage or practical gain to be found, GT6's ABS system is pretty much perfect in its operation
 
ABS 0 doesn't give you any extra braking force, it just increases the chance of a lock up on entry. Aside from role playing (ie. real racing drivers don't use ABS so neither will I) there is no advantage or practical gain to be found, GT6's ABS system is pretty much perfect in its operation

Except that you have more direct control of your car with ABS off. It might not make you faster, but there's a lot more to it than just role-play.
 
Except that you have more direct control of your car with ABS off. It might not make you faster, but there's a lot more to it than just role-play.

There's also a difference when a car is tuned with ABS 1 and ABS 0 :) Some little stuff that might not get picked up on car driven with ABS 1 might be felt easily when no ABS is used :) ( usually when braking/corner entry and mid corner ) I rarely drive ABS 1 tune, because they always needs something to change to make it comfortable for me ( usually BB, damper/ARB and LSD )

The first reason I used ABS 0 was when GT5 first released, I took my 1st drive, I realized that ABS was not really simulating ABS at all, it merely applies brake assist that prevents lock up. I used ABS 1 for about a few laps, then tried without and stuck with ABS 0 until today, which is since 2010 ( about 5 years ) and never looked back. Some of my PSN friends also followed, some don't, it's a preference, just like when using TCS or SRF or any other assist.

As an assist, ABS in GT5/6 is fine, but it's still far away from real life ABS it tries to simulate, it's just too perfect in the way it operates. It should at least perform like GT5/6 TCS system.
 
What is the point of more direct control if it doesn't bring better results?
from a competition aspect. None.
Enjoyment, lots if that's what you like to do, play with the car and have fun it, tricks, etc or have the feeling of driving a car differently than real life.
We each want something different from the game. Some want to go as fast as they can, some want to have a near simulation experience, some want to do things in the game they can't in real life like flat spins jumps etc etc etc.
 
If you enjoy it then by all means keep on doing it, if not then you're not losing anything. For me it doesn't feel any closer to real life, I've owned plenty of cars without ABS and turning it off in game didn't feel any closer to this apart from the increased threat of lock ups. I wouldn't mind if there was anything to gain (ie. you can use 100% of the braking force at ABS0 but only 90% at ABS1) but it just isn't programmed that way, there is no penalty for using ABS1
 
ABS prevents lot of suspension movement, even when brake is not applied. Cars feel much more alive when driving noABS, suspension works way differently then.
 
ABS prevents lot of suspension movement, even when brake is not applied. Cars feel much more alive when driving noABS, suspension works way differently then.
Now that, is an Interesting theory you have there.
 
Now that, is an Interesting theory you have there.
Do you want a car to test it? Last clear signs got from AW11 MR2 SC "replica", just finished "replica" of Ford Escort mk2 done on Izusu Bellett body is probably also good for showing it, due high gravel/snow suspension.
 
Do you want a car to test it? Last clear signs got from AW11 MR2 SC "replica", just finished "replica" of Ford Escort mk2 done on Izusu Bellett body is probably also good for showing it, due high gravel/snow suspension.
Firstly I am not the best hotlap driver, and being two weeks away from my console, I wont be able to try it out anyway but I will check back for results in your thread as it is something I am also curious about :D
 
Me personally, I'm faster with ABS on. But that's probably more the fault of my crappy pedal set then anything.
 
Firstly I am not the best hotlap driver, and being two weeks away from my console, I wont be able to try it out anyway but I will check back for results in your thread as it is something I am also curious about :D
You don't need to be fast hotlap driver, enough if you can manage i.e. "stable" lap around Nordschleife.
 
You don't need to be fast hotlap driver, enough if you can manage i.e. "stable" lap around Nordschleife.
The Nordschleife is probably one of the hardest tracks, my times change about 10 secs every lap. I much prefer bathurst, I can manage 3 laps inside 1second. If that is good enough, then send a tune or two I will be sure to try them when I make the time.
 
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The Nordschleife is probably one of the hardest tracks, my times change about 10 secs every lap. I much prefer bathurst, I can manage 3 laps inside 1second. If that is good enough, then send a tune or two I will be sure to try them when I make the time.
Like said "i.e.", Bathurst works fine, top of hill unsettle suspension just fine.
 
guess so, I don't know many people that get very close laps around the green hell. Too many corners to nail with all aids off. lolz
 
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