Fastest Sport Compact?

[JCE]

I don't know what Focus ST you guys are talking about, but the Focus ST in America only has 152hp. - Famine, The Cobalt has 200LB-FT, not 155

Unfortunatly the "American" spec of the Focus ST is STUPID AND HIDEOUS when compaired to the UK version. I like the new ST, but I doubt it'll be quicker than the old RS...I hope I'm wrong. I really wish Ford would just be at least 1 model year behind Europe on the Focus--but alas they won't do it.

But I don't know what everyone says the Ion/Cobalt aren't up to par with the SRT-4, like I said it comes down to the driver on which one is faster.

The reason is it's straightline speed is rediculously fast for an econobox. I'd put my money on the Cobalt SS over the SRT4 around a track--just not at a redlight.

 

[VIPFREAK]

Focus RS

 

[Joey D]

The reason is it's straightline speed is rediculously fast for an econobox. I'd put my money on the Cobalt SS over the SRT4 around a track--just not at a redlight.

I still say its the driver...if they are evenly matched drivers though I think the SRT-4 might pull it out in the end, but only by a few ticks.

 

[amp88]

Don't forget the Seat Leon.

225bhp and 206ft lbs of torque.

 

[kragbees]

Here are some specs as well :

2005 Audi A3 2.0 T :

Power : 200 HP
Torque : 206 lb.-ft.
Weight : 2800 lb

2005 Golf V GTI : Exactly same engine specs, not sure on weight, but apparently it does weigh more than the A3.

2006 Civic Si :

Power : 197 HP
Torque : 139 lb.-ft.
Weight : 2880 lb

The Chevy Cobalt SS weighs 2970 lb

According to roadandtrack.com, the Civic is better than the Cobalt and Cooper S because of handling and fit and finish. But I guess that (fit and finish) does not count here ...

 

[Disturbed07]

Here are some specs as well :

2005 Audi A3 2.0 T :

Power : 200 HP
Torque : 206 lb.-ft.
Weight : 2800 lb

2005 Golf V GTI : Exactly same engine specs, not sure on weight, but apparently it does weigh more than the A3.

2006 Civic Si :

Power : 197 HP
Torque : 139 lb.-ft.
Weight : 2880 lb

The Chevy Cobalt SS weighs 2970 lb

According to roadandtrack.com, the Civic is better than the Cobalt and Cooper S because of handling and fit and finish. But I guess that (fit and finish) does not count here ...

That's strange, because R&T claimed the Cobalt the winner against an RSX, even with it's claimed "fit and finish"
either way, your right, fit and finish do not matter here
thanks for the specs

 

[Disturbed07]

should a Mini be included with all these 200_HP monsters, in comparison? that sounds a little sadistic, though maybe it can handle on a road course, enough to make the beating gentler?

 

[kragbees]

should a Mini be included with all these 200_HP monsters, in comparison? that sounds a little sadistic, though maybe it can handle on a road course, enough to make the beating gentler?

I agree ... only 170hp, but it's very light as far as I know ... quite obvious hey

0-60 in approx. 7.5 secs is not bad ...

 

[Famine]

should a Mini be included with all these 200_HP monsters, in comparison? that sounds a little sadistic, though maybe it can handle on a road course, enough to make the beating gentler?

MINI not Mini.

Mini Cooper S:

1.3 litre, 63hp


MINI Cooper S Works:

1.6 litre supercharged, 210hp (and 181lbft), 0-62mph in 6.4s - and 300lb lighter than the Cobalt.

 

[kragbees]

MINI not Mini.

Mini Cooper S:

1.3 litre, 63hp


MINI Cooper S Works:

1.6 litre supercharged, 210hp (and 181lbft), 0-62mph in 6.4s - and 300lb lighter than the Cobalt.

And AUDI ... not Audi

The S Works, does that count as a car here, does it come out like this or is it aftermarket changes to make it a "Works" ?

 

[Famine]

Seriously - the BMW branding has "MINI" in all upper case.

The Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works is a factory car.

 

[kragbees]

Seriously - the BMW branding has "MINI" in all upper case.

The Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works is a factory car.

So a MINI is not so Mini after all ... with those power figures ... well ... if it's a factory car, it should almost win this comp. already I'd say.

I'm sure it handles like a go-kart as well.

 

[niky]

It doesn't really win it yet. 6.5 is respectable for an FF, but it's matched by quite a few of them. It's still not a match for the Americans at the drag strip, and while it may have more in the way of, say, steering feel than many, that doesn't always equate to world-beating lap times.

But yes, of all "tuner" cars, the S Works can be considered a stock MINI, as BMW will honor it with a full warranty, not something many other manufacturers do, even for "in-house" tuners.

 

[kragbees]

It doesn't really win it yet. 6.5 is respectable for an FF, but it's matched by quite a few of them. It's still not a match for the Americans at the drag strip, and while it may have more in the way of, say, steering feel than many, that doesn't always equate to world-beating lap times.

But yes, of all "tuner" cars, the S Works can be considered a stock MINI, as BMW will honor it with a full warranty, not something many other manufacturers do, even for "in-house" tuners.

Granted it's a bit slower than the Americans in a straight line ... but then again the Alfa 147 GTA will kill them in a straight line (6.0 sec) ... but round a corner the 147 GTA will lose out alot against the Mini, saw it on Topgear, and the Alfa spins more than it does anything else if pushed hard around a bend.

So is this comparison about lap times or about drag times ... ? I say any car can go fast in a straight line ... does not mean anything to me. What matters is performance around a track ... I'm willing to take a bet that the Mini Coopers S John Works waa waa will win almost any FWD car mentioned here ... and the Ford Focus RS is a blinding car around a track as well.

I would say it's between those 2 ...

 

[niky]

I'd pick the RS... slightly heavier, but with a quaiffe LSD, should be faster around the turns.

Quoted 0-60 is around 6.3 seconds, a few tenths faster than the Cooper.

 

[kragbees]

I'd pick the RS... slightly heavier, but with a quaiffe LSD, should be faster around the turns.

Quoted 0-60 is around 6.3 seconds, a few tenths faster than the Cooper.

I agree ... should be a fantastic car to drive ! Also looks much better than the Cooper to me ... Mini just to "different" for my liking, with the dials in the middle of the console etc. ...

 

[Disturbed07]

It doesn't really win it yet. 6.5 is respectable for an FF, but it's matched by quite a few of them. It's still not a match for the Americans at the drag strip, and while it may have more in the way of, say, steering feel than many, that doesn't always equate to world-beating lap times.

But yes, of all "tuner" cars, the S Works can be considered a stock MINI, as BMW will honor it with a full warranty, not something many other manufacturers do, even for "in-house" tuners.

there is a problem with this, I would've mentioned the car, but I believe it should count as modified, even though they give it a full warrenty.
Why? because you can buy a brand new SRT-4, and choose between stage 1,2,3 kits, adding up to a crapload (over 300) HP, all with the full, factory warrenty, there's also upgrades like this becoming (and some already) for the Cobalt. Any thoughts?
I know it would make the MINI more competitive, but seeing as two prime competitors could probabley push everything else out with the same option, is that fair?

 

[Famine]

But it's not modified from factory spec. It's supplied as a "John Cooper Works" level of trim, not as a car with extra options ticked. They have made "x" John Cooper Works cars for sale, whereas the SRT-4 is supplied as an SRT-4 and then has a series of upgrades attached with no upper limit on cars with these options.

 

[Disturbed07]

But it's not modified from factory spec. It's supplied as a "John Cooper Works" level of trim, not as a car with extra options ticked. They have made "x" John Cooper Works cars for sale, whereas the SRT-4 is supplied as an SRT-4 and then has a series of upgrades attached with no upper limit on cars with these options.

Good point

Hopefully I'll have time this weekend,(yes on Christmas) to look around for something on these cars... it'll be nice to see some numbers, even if they won't be all telling, I'm considering E-Mailing C&D, and R&T about maybe doing something like it

 

[YSSMAN]

Here are some performance figures from some Euro-market vehciles from the Septermber '05 issue of CAR Magazine:

Alfa Romeo 147 GTA;
0-62 MPH in 6.2 seconds
Top speed of 153 mph

Mini Cooper S-Works:
0-62 MPH in 6.6 seconds
Top Speed of 144 mph

Vauxhaull Astra VXR:
0-62 MPH in 6.2 seconds
Top speed of 152 MPH

Volkswagen Golf GTI:
0-62 MPH in 7.2 seconds (manual model may be slower without DSG option, Car and Driver managed to get a 6 flat in their preview car, see below)
Top speed of 146 MPH

From Car and Driver:

Audi A3:
0-60 in 6.5 seconds
Top speed of 128 (govenor limited)

Acura RSX Type-S:*
0-60 in 6.4 seconds
Top speed of 142 MPH

Chevrolet Cobalt SS S/C:*
0-60 in 6.1 seconds
Top speed of 141 MPH

Dodge SRT-4 ACR:*
0-60 in 5.6 seconds
Top speed of 150 MPH

Saturn Ion Redline:*
0-60 in 6.0 seconds
Top speed of 145 MPH

Subaru Impreza WRX:*
0-60 in 6.0
Top speed of 143 MPH

* In a Car and Driver comparison with an Autocross test, the Dodge finished in first, followed by the Saturn, Chevy, Subaru, and Acura.

VW GTI DSG:
0-60 in 6.0 seconds
Top speed of 141 MPH

VW GLI:
0-60 in 7.1 seconds
Top speed of 129 MPH (govenor limited)

Motor Trend had a test of the 2006 Civic Si (I dont have it with me):
0-60 of a high 6 (6.8 if I remember correctly)
Top speed less than 140 MPH


Of all the sport compacts, the VW twins remain to be my favorites, with the Vauxhaull comming in a close second, followed by the Alfa Romeo. If I were to spend my money, I would probably look at the GTI or maybe the Cobalt SS, as the Honda and Acura along with the Subaru are of no interest to me.

Put them all on the track, and it is going to be a tough race between the SRT-4 and the GTI... The SRT-4 has the go-power and a ligher weight, but the GTI would be more balanced and when equipped with the DSG, better at putting the power to the pavement in a reasonable manner.

 

[Poverty]

The gti and srt-4 have a tough race? A Focus RS would outshine them both. Ive been in one of those it was amazing. The gti is fast around a track but a honda civic type R would beat it. Howcome no ones mentioned the rsx type-r?

 

[niky]

I agree, GTi and SRT4, no contest. Note, the Cobalt SS and SRT4 were neck-in-neck in an American on-track comparo (too lazy to look up where, but it was one of the big three car mags), while the GTi trailed the Vauxhall Astra VXR (same chassis as Cobalt, somewhat more power, but handling was the big difference on track versus the GTi) by quite a bit in the EVO comparo, which put the Focus RS as the faster car in the real world compared to the new VXR (more sure-footed, better LSD).

The RSX Type R? Maybe the current Integra Type R would be the best for this. A bit lighter, a bit higher output, and with a trick LSD, too.

 

[Joey D]

Those numbers suck, show me an SRT-4 that'll per 60 in under 6 seconds and I'll give you a cookie. The Ion is drag limited to 144, how they 145 is beyond me, GM did testing and said the car was unable to go past that.

What gets me is that Car and Driver had to use the ACR version to be competitive in the autocross, what's wrong with a normal SRT-4? The Colbalt and Ion both were decent but I really think GM needs to come out with a sporty suspension package for them, also they desperatly need to put a little bit better motor mounts in the car.

 

[YSSMAN]

C/D used the ACR version of the SRT-4 because it was the new model readily available from the folks at Dodge for testing. As for new upgrades for the Cobalt SS and Ion Redline, the folks at GMPD have made some available out of the dealers, but I personally have not seen many on the cars out here, as people are more likely to buy a Mustang or a GTO than a Cobalt or Focus.

As for the use of the Ford Focus RS or Acura RSX Type R/ Honda Integra Type-R, well, they dont sell them in the United States... The last Type-R vehicle they sold here was the previous generation Integra, but we never saw any of the Civics or Accords in Type-R format.

Although the Type-Rs are supposed to be the pinnacles of FWD performance, I really dont care. The GTI is still a strong contender in most situations, and the 147 GTA remains as a strong performer... Hell, you can still get the Seat Leon R (baisicly the Golf GTI VR6) and run with some of the big kids...

I guess when it comes down to it, there is a feeling to a FWD pocket rocket, and the GTI continues to be the hot-hatch that fits that description. If anyone in here has driven the origional Rabbit GTI, they know what I am talking about.

 

[Disturbed07]

An Acura RSX Type R does not exist, Acura's are not sold in Japan (last I checked) as it's the American version of Honda, sort of. But I do know that there is no Type-R RSX, anywhere.
Also, Blazin - it's not very uncommon for cars to slightly exceed manufactures claims, wether it's because of a strong motor, or whatever the reason, And I've also seen other claims of sub-6 sec 0-60 runs in a Neon, and there's no reason with that much power they couldnt, although you'd think the Subaru could do it to, as I've seen 5.8's for them, which brings up the question, what's the Subaru doing? how come it can't compete with FF cars with the same or less power?

 

[Famine]

Weight, drivetrain losses.

250 crank horses in a 4WD car becomes ~188 wheel horses.
210 crank horses in an FWD car becomes ~179 wheel horses.

A weight difference of only 100kg (220lb) sees the FWD car with more wheel hp/tonne than the 4WD one.

 

[Disturbed07]

yet another reason I'm not a big fan of AWD, I'll take my power at the wheels,with lite drivetrain losses, and no dependability issues, please

 

[barryl85]

The Mini Cooper S can be bought from BMW with the 'works' package and its 210bhp!

What about the Seat Leon Cupra-R? 220bhp?

I know its 4WD but one of the most powerfull small cars would be the Nissan Pulsar GTi-R.

Anyone else heard rumours about Peugeot bringing back the 205 GTI? My mate read it in a magazine.

 

[niky]

Powerful, the GTi-R was, but the handling wasn't there compared to the competition at the time, and as it fizzled out in rally before ever showing up, it will forever remain an also-ran in the history of rally-road-rockets.

But the idea of buying a car that you could tune to crazy numbers (400+ hp, anyone) and drag the hell out of really appeals to me. I really ought to have jumped at the chance to buy one of those damn engines while I still had a Nissan.

 

[YSSMAN]

I personally wouldnt count most FWD vehicles as sports cars, but they have proven their worth over time as performance cars that can compare to other AWD and RWD models as well...

I wish I had some solid numbers on the old MKII-based Corrado, my all-time favorite FWD sports car... It would be interesting to see how close it is to the current gen FWD standards are these days...