Favorite Engines/Transmissions

[YSSMAN]

Er... It's a SBC. GM could put it in whatever the thing would fit in (which is basically everything bigger than the Cruze), they adapted the last generation Vortec 5300 into the LS3 for use in FWD cars (changed the heads and changed the block material, basically), and the current generation Vortec 5300 already comes in some models with an aluminum block.

All of that, plus the modified versions they put in the Chevrolet Colorado and Hummer H3 which, as I recall, were available with a six-speed manual gearbox (I may need to double-check that).

As such an affordable platform, one that produces a pretty reasonable amount of power at all parts of the powerband, I'd really be interested to see how it would perform when placed in a fourth-generation Camaro or some other kind of sports coupe. I'm entirely convinced that, if I were to build a RestoMod Chevrolet of some kind, the LY5 would be the engine I'd want to go for.

 

[savage388]

All of that, plus the modified versions they put in the Chevrolet Colorado and Hummer H3 which, as I recall, were available with a six-speed manual gearbox (I may need to double-check that).

As such an affordable platform, one that produces a pretty reasonable amount of power at all parts of the powerband, I'd really be interested to see how it would perform when placed in a fourth-generation Camaro or some other kind of sports coupe. I'm entirely convinced that, if I were to build a RestoMod Chevrolet of some kind, the LY5 would be the engine I'd want to go for.

For the money you would spend for a nice ly5 you could go for an ls1 or ls2 which both make more power and have great aftermarket support.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm not up to date on the current crate engine situation, but power isn't the point. The choice of the LY5 is the nearly-flat power band, and reliability that is pretty much unquestionable (not that it is really a problem with any of the small-blocks to begin with). The aftermarket for the LY5 exists, admittedly it is smaller than that of the LS-series, but given that they share similar roots, things could be adapted, and have been for the pickup truck and SUV line.

 

[savage388]

I'm not up to date on the current crate engine situation, but power isn't the point. The choice of the LY5 is the nearly-flat power band, and reliability that is pretty much unquestionable (not that it is really a problem with any of the small-blocks to begin with). The aftermarket for the LY5 exists, admittedly it is smaller than that of the LS-series, but given that they share similar roots, things could be adapted, and have been for the pickup truck and SUV line.

The flat powerband comes with most of the new chevy small blocks, plus the ls engines have a good bit of cubic inches on the 5.3 obviously. As for roots all current chevy v8's have a connection somehow to the ls1. Admittedly, im biased toward the ls1 because of the horsepower per dollar and it's indestructibility. The 5.3 would be good for space limited applications though, like stuffing a v8 into a vega

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Aren't all the LS engines, regardless of capacity, basically the same size externally?

 

[Slash]

IIRC, the factory claim wasn't even 400hp. Even with crappy heads, I'm pretty sure the BOSS 429 made more than that. Obviously not as much as some people would like to believe (we're talking 60's manufacturing here), but it's generally accepted that the engines made more than they were rated for.

EDIT: And as said before, the 429's were hugely under-carbureted and had extremely restrictive heads. You could gain hundreds of horsepower by simply opening up the Venturi with a Holley Dominator and changing out the heads.

Ford rated the 429's at 375hp to reduce insurance costs, when actual output was estimated at around 500, or so people say. Doing what you said here will grab another couple hundred, and a few more basic mods will have you pushing the 600hp range, EASY.

 

[Tornado]

Aren't all the LS engines, regardless of capacity, basically the same size externally?

More or less, except for the forced induction ones.


I think the LS7 might be a bit smaller, though.

 

[Slash]

Under 2k? 750hp?

From a small-block Ford? Not really, no. Maybe if you don't mind blowing it up every 3rd run. A Teksid block 4.6 can come close to that though (Cobra rotating assembly, '96-8 Cobra intake with shortened runners, add boost, done) very easily.

And still idle perfectly because the heads don't suck and so it doesn't need a madness cam.


Typo there, meant to say 8K-10K, lol. Crate engines for that much can get you up to about 650hp range, so a few more mods and your looking at that. We had one back in the day, and yeah, you guessed it, it blew up.


Bad on gas? Not always. I'd bet a relatively small headed 351W could knock down 20-25mpg on the highway depending on gearing in a car while still doing 12s all day every day.

Gots me 302 HO heads on it now, but it's running really rich. Been leaning it out a bit to get it back up there though.

Erm. 500+ for the Boss 429, sure. Short of that? Pig.

Oh for sure, but if your looking for power, 429 is the way to go.


A stock 460 is also a complete pig. Even in their best days the factory heads were terrible. Lots of torque, sure, but that's a function of displacement.

Factory heads where terribly, but with a couple hundred dollar set, your looking at an easy 150 horse increase, same with *most other Ford engines.


I'm not up to date on my movie car knockoffs, is that a proper 427 (FE) or a punched out small block?
Proper 427 FE, they make them in kit cars, I had the pleasure of seeing one in the showroom and the sticker on the window had it rated as such. From what I've seen on the internet 825-830 is what they are rated at. How true it is? Not sure.
The FE was easily the best of the bunch at, well, everything. Lighter than the 385, more power than the Windsors thought of (as well as the Clevelands for that matter).
So true, no arguing with that. Shame they aren't built anymore.

Not to mention they still grow on trees even today and the worst heads are still pretty damn good.

And then there's the sound. The FE sounds like it's going to kill something, probably you.

Haha, you gotta love that old Ford rumble!



Manual C6? Ahahahahhahahahaha. No such thing. The C6 is an automatic transmission no matter how you slice it... Putting a manual valvebody in it != making it a manual transmission.

They do make manual C6's, unless I'm thinking of a C4...
Also, transmissions are not rated for a given horsepower figure, they're rated for a torque figure.

While this is true, there is some degree in which they can hold horsepower, being 600 at this. Torque ratings for the C6 is what I'm not sure of, maybe I've got my figures backwards.

Pretty much a computer controlled C6 with different gear ratios, you mean.
Add in overdrive and different ratios and it's ideally a C6.
The C6's 1st-3rd ratios can be used in the E4OD/4R100 but no E4OD came with them.
Yup.


If you couldn't tell, I legitimately bleed Ford blue.

Great color to be bleeding! Haha.

Edit: @Vega stuff: For a bit we had a '76 we got for free. Cleaned the contacts on the fuel pump, cleaned the carb, cleaned the plugs, switched the alternator belt and from there on it'd fire on the first turn after having sat for 6 years. Had no balls at all, but that's an automatic Vega for you.

.

 

[Camaroyenko]

Ford rated the 429's at 375hp to reduce insurance costs, when actual output was estimated at around 500, or so people say. Doing what you said here will grab another couple hundred, and a few more basic mods will have you pushing the 600hp range, EASY.

Gotta love it when car companies do that 👍

 

[Slash]

Gotta love it when car companies do that 👍

Right? Haha

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Ford rated the 429's at 375hp to reduce insurance costs, when actual output was estimated at around 500, or so people say. Doing what you said here will grab another couple hundred, and a few more basic mods will have you pushing the 600hp range, EASY.

In factory trim? You are insane. They did 0-60 in 7 seconds and the quarter mile around 15 seconds flat. Try 250bhp or so. Change the carb, balance/blue print the motor, change the headers, and change the cam, and you are making some significant progress though.

I remember an article in MM&FF where they dynoed a stock Boss, and it put down something like 225hp to the wheels.

edit:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/5216_8_mustang_musclecars_dynojet/viewall.html

Ok I see that particular boss bad a fuel issue, but I still don't see it making more than 300whp in stock form.

 

[Joey D]

Engines

• Chevy's 502 Ram Jet, I've just always thought it looked and sounded awesome.
• BMW's N54 engine, mmmmmmm....direct injection and two turbos.
• Ford's anything EcoBoost'ed, it's a cool name and a cool concept.
• Ford's 5.0L Coyote, it allows people to again cruise around in the five-o with the rag top up so their hair doesn't blow.
• Volvo's B5254T2-R I5, it's five cylinder (which is cool) and powers one of the coolest cars out there...the S60 and V70 R versions.

Transmissions
Errrr there hasn't really been many transmissions I've feel in love with but I'm guessing the one I've rather enjoyed again and again is the DSG from VW.

 

[Slash]

In factory trim? You are insane. They did 0-60 in 7 seconds and the quarter mile around 15 seconds flat. Try 250bhp or so. Change the carb, balance/blue print the motor, change the headers, and change the cam, and you are making some significant progress though.

I remember an article in MM&FF where they dynoed a stock Boss, and it put down something like 225hp to the wheels.

edit:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/5216_8_mustang_musclecars_dynojet/viewall.html

Ok I see that particular boss bad a fuel issue, but I still don't see it making more than 300whp in stock form.

Hard to believe since the 69 351 was doing 300.... Ford wouldn't build a big bad NASCAR engine if it had less power than it's SB pony car counterpart. Don't forget, power was rated in SAE Gross and changed to NET in '71. What this did was change power from being rated at the flywheel with no A/C etc, to A/C and powerloss to the wheels.

 

[savage388]

Aren't all the LS engines, regardless of capacity, basically the same size externally?

More or less, except for the forced induction ones.

I think the LS7 might be a bit smaller, though.

Yes all the ls engines are the same size externally because they are based on the same block really. If anything I'd think the ls7 would be larger because it has very different heads that flow absolutely amazing.

 

[RVDNuT374]

Engines:

GM Big Block
GM 250 inline six- the only motor you can blow up and it'll still start the next day
GM Small Block
Ford Windsor Small Block
Ford 460
Ford Cleveland Small Block


Transmissions:

Ford C6
GM TH350/400
GM Powerglide
Chrysler TorqueFlite
GM 4L60E/4L80E

 

[Zenith]

Ford rated the 429's at 375hp to reduce insurance costs, when actual output was estimated at around 500, or so people say. Doing what you said here will grab another couple hundred, and a few more basic mods will have you pushing the 600hp range, EASY.

Yeah, underrated power figures are an old story that's been inflated as years have gone by. There's no way it was making 500hp in 1969.

In factory trim? You are insane. They did 0-60 in 7 seconds and the quarter mile around 15 seconds flat. Try 250bhp or so. Change the carb, balance/blue print the motor, change the headers, and change the cam, and you are making some significant progress though.

I remember an article in MM&FF where they dynoed a stock Boss, and it put down something like 225hp to the wheels.

edit:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/5216_8_mustang_musclecars_dynojet/viewall.html

Ok I see that particular boss bad a fuel issue, but I still don't see it making more than 300whp in stock form.

I find this hard to believe, seeing that my stock 289 put out about 200bhp on its dyno run with no mods except a tune-up.

 

[MHPALA]

Engines:
LT1
LT5 (ZR1)
LS engines
S20
RB26dett
VR38
VQ37
SR20
AMC I6 4.0
many more

Transmission:
4L60E
4L80E
Good ole BW T56
GETRAG skyline gearbox
GR6
Many more

 

[YSSMAN]

I think the LS7 might be a bit smaller, though.

I thought the dry sump system added a bit of size and weight to it compared to the then-comparative LS2, and later LS3. But, I'm not totally sure on that.

 

[RedTransAm]

Yes all the ls engines are the same size externally because they are based on the same block really. If anything I'd think the ls7 would be larger because it has very different heads that flow absolutely amazing.

Externally, an LS7 block is no different than any other LS based engine. Internally, it's another story.

And MHPALA, I can't believe I forgot about the LT5, what an awesome powerplant that was.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Hard to believe since the 69 351 was doing 300.... Ford wouldn't build a big bad NASCAR engine if it had less power than it's SB pony car counterpart. Don't forget, power was rated in SAE Gross and changed to NET in '71. What this did was change power from being rated at the flywheel with no A/C etc, to A/C and powerloss to the wheels.

Ford wouldn't build a Nascar engine with less power than a SB, you are right. To bad the street, factory stock 429 had a carb that couldn't hope to flow enough air, a cam that barely tickled the heads, and an exhaust manifold that might has well not have been hollowed out. The 429 was a dog from the factory. I bet the 351 and 302 Boss models would both walk the 429 in just about any performance test. The myth of the 'fabled 429' is so pathetic. The only big block approaching 500hp in factory tune was probably the LS6 454.

Are you implying that car engines are now rated factoring power loss to the wheels? I sincerely hope not...

 

[savage388]

Ford wouldn't build a Nascar engine with less power than a SB, you are right. To bad the street, factory stock 429 had a carb that couldn't hope to flow enough air, a cam that barely tickled the heads, and an exhaust manifold that might has well not have been hollowed out. The 429 was a dog from the factory. I bet the 351 and 302 Boss models would both walk the 429 in just about any performance test. The myth of the 'fabled 429' is so pathetic. The only big block approaching 500hp in factory tune was probably the LS6 454.

Are you implying that car engines are now rated factoring power loss to the wheels? I sincerely hope not...

Cough 426 hemi cough yea I think the street hemi was fairly underrated. As well as the all aluminum 427 zl1.

 

[MatskiMonk]

BMW M30B28 & M30B35, 2.8l & 3.5l inline 6 from the days when engines were a bit simpler... can't say I've a particular favourite 'box to go with it, the 5 spd manual was quicker, my the 4 spd auto delivered torque in such a lazy fashion that, relaxed tail out action was simplicity itself

Also, an engine I hate.. Toyota 5E-FE 1.5l as found in the old Toyota Paseo.

 

[Azure Flare]

Engines:

VR38DETT
LS7
M 159
K20
Coyote (Ford 5.0)
Oh wait, thats more than 3

While I can't find any specific transmissions, I will say that a 6-speed manual is always good way to go. And here in America, they are also good theft protection:tup: I used to not like dual-clutch gearboxes, but I am a convert, I think are awesome. Maybe its my racing driver self, but I loooove sequential shift transmissions, in my mind they are the best because race car.

 

[Slash]

Ford wouldn't build a Nascar engine with less power than a SB, you are right. To bad the street, factory stock 429 had a carb that couldn't hope to flow enough air, a cam that barely tickled the heads, and an exhaust manifold that might has well not have been hollowed out. The 429 was a dog from the factory. I bet the 351 and 302 Boss models would both walk the 429 in just about any performance test. The myth of the 'fabled 429' is so pathetic. The only big block approaching 500hp in factory tune was probably the LS6 454.

Are you implying that car engines are now rated factoring power loss to the wheels? I sincerely hope not...

They were rated at the flywheel and nothing else and then factored in everything else possible when they switched ratings. Thats why a 250hp rated engine would drop to like 170.


"Ford intentionally underrated the Boss 429 for advantages both in racing as well as insurability at 375 hp (280 kW) and 450 ft·lbf (610 N•m) of torque. Several dynos showed it to be more around 500-525 horsepower, at very high rpm however"


http://www.netcarshow.com/ford/1969-mustang_boss_429/


Now I personally have never worked on a 429 (I've only worked on the SBF's), however I'm going by what the majority of the local shops, my shop teacher, and my father have told me, and most websites generally agree that the horsepower was anywhere between 375-500, I've seen a ton of different figures, but generally around 400hp... A lot of places give them less credit though. All replies I got when I asked ranged from 450-500 horse. My shop teacher has owned a 429 engine and dyno'd it in our shop, and he said his figures were in the 475hp range.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Typo there, meant to say 8K-10K, lol. Crate engines for that much can get you up to about 650hp range, so a few more mods and your looking at that. We had one back in the day, and yeah, you guessed it, it blew up.

I don't like crate engines. Built not bought and all that.

Gots me 302 HO heads on it now, but it's running really rich. Been leaning it out a bit to get it back up there though.

You do realize how terrible 302 "H.O" heads are right?

When I said small-headed, I was thinking AFR 185s... Which have plenty of flow but won't wind up weak down low.

Oh for sure, but if your looking for power, 429 is the way to go.

You mean, aside from it being a monstrously heavy pig and being classed as a big-block. And having the same problem as the small-blocks... Which is that since everything has to be replaced, you buy parts and make them into an engine, not buy an engine and add parts.

Factory heads where terribly, but with a couple hundred dollar set, your looking at an easy 150 horse increase, same with *most other Ford engines.

It'll take more than a head swap... You're also looking at a different intake, different carb (or an EFI setup, pick your poison), headers, and so on.

Show me a 460 that gains 150hp from heads only, with everything else just bolted back up and retuned so it doesn't hate itself. You won't.

So true, no arguing with that. Shame they aren't built anymore.

Emissions killed them. Oh well.

Haha, you gotta love that old Ford rumble!

Not "old Ford rumble". FEs are, well, different.

They do make manual C6's, unless I'm thinking of a C4...

No, they make manual valvebody C4s and C6s. That does not make it a manual transmission, it makes it an automatic that requires manual gear selection.

While this is true, there is some degree in which they can hold horsepower, being 600 at this. Torque ratings for the C6 is what I'm not sure of, maybe I've got my figures backwards.

Provided you can make a converter that holds up to it, there's no reason a trans capable of holding, say, 400 ft-lb can't hold up to 800hp... At a little over 10,000rpm. (exaggerated example)

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

They were rated at the flywheel and nothing else and then factored in everything else possible when they switched ratings. Thats why a 250hp rated engine would drop to like 170.


"Ford intentionally underrated the Boss 429 for advantages both in racing as well as insurability at 375 hp (280 kW) and 450 ft·lbf (610 N•m) of torque. Several dynos showed it to be more around 500-525 horsepower, at very high rpm however"


http://www.netcarshow.com/ford/1969-mustang_boss_429/


Now I personally have never worked on a 429 (I've only worked on the SBF's), however I'm going by what the majority of the local shops, my shop teacher, and my father have told me, and most websites generally agree that the horsepower was anywhere between 375-500, I've seen a ton of different figures, but generally around 400hp... A lot of places give them less credit though. All replies I got when I asked ranged from 450-500 horse. My shop teacher has owned a 429 engine and dyno'd it in our shop, and he said his figures were in the 475hp range.

Well you can believe in the myth all you want, it isn't going to make it true. A 3,800lbs car with 475whp is simply not going to run a 14.08 second quarter mile. And that is the BEST I've seen for the big boss, most contemporary performance tests were in the 15 second range. For the record, that is slower than a similar weight 03/04 Mach 1 with a paltry 275-290whp, and much, much slower than a similar weight and similar *claimed* power Shelby GT500. It is more in line with a similar weight and probably similar power (280-300whp stock) Dodge Charger/Magnum R/T.

By the way 'shop teachers' are the most effective medium for automotive-related myth. Do not believe a word they say.

 

[savage388]

By the way 'shop teachers' are the most effective medium for automotive-related myth. Do not believe a word they say.

👍 My shop teacher is also a ford guy so he's always talking stuff about ford. Once he said the 5.4 Sohc was a Maserati engine. *facepalm*

 

[CyborgGT]

Chevy LS (probably the 2 if I had to choose just one)

2JZ (I've always felt the straight-six is the definitive performance layout, no idea why. I've always been drawn to this one in particular)

F22A & H22A (as much as I used to make fun of Hondas and "VTEC-y0", these things are way too much fun. The F was just a well-designed, cool lil single cammer I'd love to revisit and build up one day)

 

[sumbrownkid]

The VQ35 that powered my mom's 2002 Nissan Pathfinder.

First engine I was really impressed by its reliability and power delivery.

 

[rb26x]

The VQ35 that powered my mom's 2002 Nissan Pathfinder.

First engine I was really impressed by its reliability and power delivery.

Same that's in the 350Z and G35