Feel fast when going fast; better sense of speed

FOV is a part of it of course, the higher and more unrealistic it is, the more of a sense of motion you get. A realistic FOV seems awfully slow at first, but after you adjust it seems "right". Motion blur can also add to the sense of speed and can be made adjustable.

The FOV in itself can't be unrealistic. It's the combination of FOV and the spectators position relative to the screen that makes it more or less realistic. With a wide FOV you need to sit closer to the screen (or have a bigger screen) and with a narrow FOV you need to sit further away (or have a smaller screen).
 
The FOV in itself can't be unrealistic. It's the combination of FOV and the spectators position relative to the screen that makes it more or less realistic. With a wide FOV you need to sit closer to the screen (or have a bigger screen) and with a narrow FOV you need to sit further away (or have a smaller screen).
"Proper" FOV is calculated using your seating position, so it's implied that unrealistic FOV is relative to your seating position.
 
"Proper" FOV is calculated using your seating position, so it's implied that unrealistic FOV is relative to your seating position.

What's proper or not depends on what kind of approach you're using:

Approach 1. The screen shows what the character see. So if the character is in a car it would show the mirrors, the instruments and the steering wheel. The screen becomes your eyes and it's independent from where your seating position is.

Approach 2. The screen shows the world at the same scale as you'd see it in real life. Instead of becoming your eyes, the screen becomes a filter between the game world and your eyes. Compared to the first approach this is more like a kind of tunnel vision.

The first approach generally gives a better view of what's going on around you (you'll see 100% even though the screen only may occupy 5% of your actual field of view). But unless you sit close to the screen or have a big screen or multi-screen setup it may also give you a feeling that the world is flatter than it actually is and that objects are further away than they actually are.

The second approach aims to show the world in real life scale so you'll get a better sense of dimensions, but unless you sit very close to the screen or have a big screen or multi-screen setup you'll have very limited peripheral vision and may find it difficult to orient yourself or to find objects around you.

Both approaches are realistic, but with different aims. The first approach aims to show what you'd see, the second approach aims to show how you'd see it.

As for the second approach, the realism depends on three factors:

1. FOV
2. Screen size(s)
3. Position of observer relative to the screen(s)

So from that approach one can't really say that it's the FOV that makes it unrealistic, it's the specific combination of the three factors. If any one of those factors are static you can still get a more realistic effect by adjusting one or both of the others.

Most of the time a balance between these two approaches is used, where the aim is to get a good enough sense of dimensions but without losing too much of the peripheral vision.
 
What's proper or not depends on what kind of approach you're using:

Approach 1. The screen shows what the character see. So if the character is in a car it would show the mirrors, the instruments and the steering wheel. The screen becomes your eyes and it's independent from where your seating position is.

Approach 2. The screen shows the world at the same scale as you'd see it in real life. Instead of becoming your eyes, the screen becomes a filter between the game world and your eyes. Compared to the first approach this is more like a kind of tunnel vision.

The first approach generally gives a better view of what's going on around you (you'll see 100% even though the screen only may occupy 5% of your actual field of view). But unless you sit close to the screen or have a big screen or multi-screen setup it may also give you a feeling that the world is flatter than it actually is and that objects are further away than they actually are.

The second approach aims to show the world in real life scale so you'll get a better sense of dimensions, but unless you sit very close to the screen or have a big screen or multi-screen setup you'll have very limited peripheral vision and may find it difficult to orient yourself or to find objects around you.

Both approaches are realistic, but with different aims. The first approach aims to show what you'd see, the second approach aims to show how you'd see it.

As for the second approach, the realism depends on three factors:

1. FOV
2. Screen size(s)
3. Position of observer relative to the screen(s)

So from that approach one can't really say that it's the FOV that makes it unrealistic, it's the specific combination of the three factors. If any one of those factors are static you can still get a more realistic effect by adjusting one or both of the others.

Most of the time a balance between these two approaches is used, where the aim is to get a good enough sense of dimensions but without losing too much of the peripheral vision.
Proper means correct. It's an unbiased, impersonal calculation of what you would see, given your particular screen size and distance from the screen. There are no "approaches", it's a mathematical calculation. What you're talking about it comprimising the proper FOV to achieve certain ends which is up to the individual playing the game. One can choose any FOV they like based on their personal likes and dislikes and what they want to get out of the experience, what they want to see on the screen etc., but there is only one "correct" FOV calculation.
 
Proper means correct. It's an unbiased, impersonal calculation of what you would see, given your particular screen size and distance from the screen. There are no "approaches", it's a mathematical calculation. What you're talking about it comprimising the proper FOV to achieve certain ends which is up to the individual playing the game. One can choose any FOV they like based on their personal likes and dislikes and what they want to get out of the experience, what they want to see on the screen etc., but there is only one "correct" FOV calculation.

There is what and there is how. What you're talking about is how. To a get a 100% correct how that's also functional to play with you need to have a big screen and sit close to it, or use a multi-screen setup, because otherwise it's like watching the world through a tube. Computer games can usually have a more correct how than video games, because you usually sit closer to the computer screen than to the TV, so you don't miss out as much on the peripheral vision.

138699199-boy-looking-through-tube-gettyimages.jpg
 
There is what and there is how. What you're talking about is how. To a get a 100% correct how that's also functional to play with you need to have a big screen and sit close to it, or use a multi-screen setup, because otherwise it's like watching the world through a tube. Computer games can usually have a more correct how than video games, because you usually sit closer to the computer screen than to the TV, so you don't miss out as much on the peripheral vision.

138699199-boy-looking-through-tube-gettyimages.jpg
There is one correct calculation for every setup period. Everything else is an adjustment for personal preference.
 
Everything is down to personal preference. It's only "correct" or "proper" if what you want is an FOV that's 1:1 with what you see around you.
Now you've got it. By definition, a mathematically correct FOV is 1:1 with what you would see looking through your monitor as if it was a window to the real world. It only really works well if your monitor around 1m or less away from you, and the larger the better. Everything other than the mathematically correct FOV is personal preference and a comprimise between visibility, sense of speed, immersion, accuracy etc.
 
Now you've got it. By definition, a mathematically correct FOV is 1:1 with what you would see looking through your monitor as if it was a window to the real world. It only really works well if your monitor around 1m or less away from you, and the larger the better. Everything other than the mathematically correct FOV is personal preference and a comprimise between visibility, sense of speed, immersion, accuracy etc.

I've always said that.

By definition 1:1 is just as mathematically correct or incorrect as 1:1.1 or 1:1.5 or 1:2 or 1:1000, it depends on what goal you have. A scale model isn't mathematically incorrect just because the scale is not 1:1. It's only incorrect given that 1:1 is the target you aim for.

As for sensation of speed, peripheral vision is more important than an FOV of 1:1. Next time you're in a bus, compare the sensation of speed you get when you sit in the front to what you get when you sit in the back (facing forward and ignoring side windows). In both cases the FOV is equivalent to 1:1 but the sensation of speed is greater when you sit in the front because you have a wider field of view so you see the world "flying by" on your sides. When you sit in the back you can only see what's directly in front of the bus and it will appear as if the bus travels much slower.

Of course, if you can achieve an FOV of 1:1 or close to 1:1 AND have peripheral vision that's always going to be the best option. But sacrificing peripheral vision to obtain an FOV at or close to 1:1 is not going to improve the sensation of speed. You'll get a better sense of distance and dimensions, but that's really all.
 
As for sensation of speed, peripheral vision is more important than an FOV of 1:1.
If your only priority or your top priority is sense of speed, yes. Some of us have different priorities, which is why we try to make our FOV as accurate as possible and set up our systems to achieve that goal. Once I made the move to a much more accurate FOV for example, I didn't give a hoot about sense of speed as the more realistic look and my own increased driving accuracy was quite intoxicating.

Of course, if you can achieve an FOV of 1:1 or close to 1:1 AND have peripheral vision that's always going to be the best option. But sacrificing peripheral vision to obtain an FOV at or close to 1:1 is not going to improve the sensation of speed. You'll get a better sense of distance and dimensions, but that's really all.
And this is where optional motion blur would help as I stated earlier. You can have both an accurate FOV and a good sense of speed with motion blur, if that's what you desire. Two other things that help with this are a virtual mirror in cockpit view and a minimap proximity indicator, which GT5 had and was dropped for GT6, Offering motion blur, proximity indicator and the minimap as options gives you the best of all worlds. You can still choose an innaccurate, high FOV to see all the mirrors and get high sense of speed if you want, or a more accurate FOV along with motion blur, minimap and proximity indicator to retain a sense of speed but keep cars and actions on the screen looking the same way they would look in real life. Or any combination of the above.
 
If your only priority or your top priority is sense of speed, yes. Some of us have different priorities, which is why we try to make our FOV as accurate as possible and set up our systems to achieve that goal. Once I made the move to a much more accurate FOV for example, I didn't give a hoot about sense of speed as the more realistic look and my own increased driving accuracy was quite intoxicating.


And this is where optional motion blur would help as I stated earlier. You can have both an accurate FOV and a good sense of speed with motion blur, if that's what you desire. Two other things that help with this are a virtual mirror in cockpit view and a minimap proximity indicator, which GT5 had and was dropped for GT6, Offering motion blur, proximity indicator and the minimap as options gives you the best of all worlds. You can still choose an innaccurate, high FOV to see all the mirrors and get high sense of speed if you want, or a more accurate FOV along with motion blur, minimap and proximity indicator to retain a sense of speed but keep cars and actions on the screen looking the same way they would look in real life. Or any combination of the above.

The topic is about sense of speed and how to achieve it. So yes, if you have that priority a wide FOV is better than a narrow FOV.

Motion blur requires a wide FOV to have any noticeable effect, so if you can't get a wide enough FOV then motion blur would not make a big difference.

What's accurate or not depends on what you aim for.
 
Well I always complained about the FOV and sense of speed in GT because the FOV is simply too narrow. It cuts off too many visibility at the edges. GT uses different FOV's in each camera View from Wider to narrow it's like Cockpit, Roof/hood, bumper cam, Chasecam. The chasecam has such an extrem narrow Fov that it kills the sense of speed completely because it feels zoomed it. When you be on a track and focus on an object far away and switch the views you will noticed in chasecam things suddenly come waaaay closer. And as bigger the TV and as closer you sit to it as slower it feels.
Going at top speeds in GT feels slow. You still will be able to see every crack in the asphalt, every little piece of grass aswell as the flowers, going down LeMans over 300km/h looking left and right you can even make out every Leaf on the bushes and trees you passing aswell as none stop repeating asphalt or grass textures or screws in the barriers. When I drive on the Autobahn on the left lane near the plants which are usually there seperating the two directions on the autobahn my eyes can't focus nothing , everything flys by blured. So motion blur is one thing which is missing. The other thing is the narrow FOV my eyes in reallife still notice things flying by when they actually pass me on my driver level you can actually test it with your own hand. See how long you will be able to see it even if you put it on your ear level. Those things you would still see already start to disappear in GT before you actually pass them and make things only appear to coming at you but not actually pass you because they are already out of your perspection when they actually fly by.

But the only right and best thing to say about all this is. OPTIONS! To each their own. Everybody has their own preferences and also own setup.
If PD gives us simple options as in every PC Sim. FOV adjustment aswell as motion blur strenght we'd be all happy. :)
People who like no motion blur simply wont enable it. Others who like it enable it. People who want a narrow FOV set it as narrow as they love to And people who want it wide, widen it until it feels nice.
Can't be better than this
 
The camera is waaay too stiff in gt, agreed. I always wanted something like in Blur

the camera should shake to not only make it feel faster but more exciting and realistic, especially when crashing or driving off road.
 
Well I always complained about the FOV and sense of speed in GT because the FOV is simply too narrow. It cuts off too many visibility at the edges. GT uses different FOV's in each camera View from Wider to narrow it's like Cockpit, Roof/hood, bumper cam, Chasecam. The chasecam has such an extrem narrow Fov that it kills the sense of speed completely because it feels zoomed it. When you be on a track and focus on an object far away and switch the views you will noticed in chasecam things suddenly come waaaay closer. And as bigger the TV and as closer you sit to it as slower it feels.
Going at top speeds in GT feels slow. You still will be able to see every crack in the asphalt, every little piece of grass aswell as the flowers, going down LeMans over 300km/h looking left and right you can even make out every Leaf on the bushes and trees you passing aswell as none stop repeating asphalt or grass textures or screws in the barriers. When I drive on the Autobahn on the left lane near the plants which are usually there seperating the two directions on the autobahn my eyes can't focus nothing , everything flys by blured. So motion blur is one thing which is missing. The other thing is the narrow FOV my eyes in reallife still notice things flying by when they actually pass me on my driver level you can actually test it with your own hand. See how long you will be able to see it even if you put it on your ear level. Those things you would still see already start to disappear in GT before you actually pass them and make things only appear to coming at you but not actually pass you because they are already out of your perspection when they actually fly by.

But the only right and best thing to say about all this is. OPTIONS! To each their own. Everybody has their own preferences and also own setup.
If PD gives us simple options as in every PC Sim. FOV adjustment aswell as motion blur strenght we'd be all happy. :)
People who like no motion blur simply wont enable it. Others who like it enable it. People who want a narrow FOV set it as narrow as they love to And people who want it wide, widen it until it feels nice.
Can't be better than this
Agreed. Motion blur, when used properly, is realistic. However, motion blur is also kind of a polarizing effect, so I think all games that use it should make it optional.
 
I think it's something with camera view from behind, it's like too stiff, I don't know how to tell. I race with bumper cam though.
 
PD had these old stubborn gray haired "gurus" in their dept that were being paid too much and prob did nothing but copy and paste sounds and effects from gt3 or from Dyson vacuum cleaners. I mean, my supercharged 700 hp 69 camaro should never sound like a Bissell Sweeper. I should look at my 3rd person view at 160mph and scream for dear life. Even GTA5 does a better job.The sound from a 700hp car should terrify my 3 pound terrier and give my 90 year old grandparent a heart attack.... but anyway prob some old farts just hanging out with no need to compete for their jobs. Good riddance!
 
If we got the same sense of speed as we got in DC, all would be well.
Watch up to 4:26
 
Please, no screen shake, our eyes, brain and neck spent millions of years on stability, don't ruin that. You can't "manually" focus on a game.
No exaggerated cage either.
And no distortion. The rest isn't as terrible when compared to this abomination. A 100 meters stretch becomes a 150 meters stretch, objects get squished and flattened like your eyes are failing. Horrible.

If you want sense of speed, ask for VR support so you can look at objects that are not in front of your movement vector. Or well, just have slower stuff driving together, then you'll see what 80km/h is, and what 200 km/h is.
 
Please, no screen shake, our eyes, brain and neck spent millions of years on stability, don't ruin that. You can't "manually" focus on a game.
No exaggerated cage either.
And no distortion. The rest isn't as terrible when compared to this abomination. A 100 meters stretch becomes a 150 meters stretch, objects get squished and flattened like your eyes are failing. Horrible.

If you want sense of speed, ask for VR support so you can look at objects that are not in front of your movement vector. Or well, just have slower stuff driving together, then you'll see what 80km/h is, and what 200 km/h is.
Personally I like a little camera shake, especially at high speed. Luckily every game I've played that has it, has it on a slider so you can adjust it to your liking.
 
The camera is waaay too stiff in gt, agreed. I always wanted something like in Blur

the camera should shake to not only make it feel faster but more exciting and realistic, especially when crashing or driving off road.


I think the last instance we saw of a loose camera view in Gran Turismo was in the BMW 1 Series Virtual Drive Demo. It sported a loose camera that allowed you to see the side of your car and was far better than the final product which had that rather poor stiff camera that we then saw in GT5 and GT6. I think this was better, at least an option for it would be nice.

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We've all noticed by now that driving at 200mph in GT6 still feels the same as driving at 70mph, apart from how the engine sounds. In Forza however, the screen shakes, you hear wind, and the camera slowly moves away from the car in exterior view. We need a serious overhaul so we feel fast when going fast.
Yeah I feel that too
 
10% motion blur and 60 fps, that should fix this. A least a little. I mean, even though the temporary AA in PC makes you sick the first few hours of playing, I think that game is great regarding sense of speed. Maybe not the Formula A, that car feels wayy to fast. XD
 
PCars (Don't start.... It's not that kinda thread :boggled:) I have to say has a very nice sense of speed for 60FPS. Mind you this is on the default settings. The only thing I adjusted was the high speed shake. I'm on the PS4 by the way.

I popped in GT4 about a month ago and the sense of speed there felt smooth and it felt right. I guess on the PS3 it was nerfed because of the graphical heaviness.

I hope PD can get this right like they did in GT4 for GT7. Especially with Kaz raving about that PS4 power. I have faith :)
 
The greatest sensation of speed I've ever felt in a video game was driving the Pagani Zonda in Assetto Corsa. A far more realistic simulator to the point where I wouldn't even call it "fun" but more like work, but once you put in the time and effort and got halfway decent at it, and you got to a straight and stepped on the gas, that acceleration was completely realistic and utterly awe inspiring.
 
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