Felipe Massa Sues the FIA Over 2008 World ChampionshipFormula 1 

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www.reuters.com

Exclusive: , Motor racing-Massa's lawyers seek compensation for lost 2008 F1 title

Lawyers for former Ferrari driver Felipe Massa have started legal action against Formula One bosses and the governing FIA seeking substantial damages resulting from an alleged 'conspiracy' that denied him the 2008 championship.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Key points here: Massa's legal team alleges the FIA knew Nelson Piquet's crash was deliberate well before Piquet revealed it in 2009 but did nothing about it, citing comments from Bernie Ecclestone.

This, they say, cost Massa points not only in the Singapore Grand Prix itself but in all subsequent rounds where Renault was allowed to continue competing when it shouldn't have been, therefore he should be the world champion.

15 years...
 
I can only assume Massa has been influenced by some shady wrong 'uns.

This won't change the title. It also wasn't Piquet's fault that Massa drove off with his fuel line still attached.
 
Liquid
I can only assume Massa has been influenced by some shady wrong 'uns.

This won't change the title. It also wasn't Piquet's fault that Massa drove off with his fuel line still attached.
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Nor will it change his appaling performance at Silverstone that year.
 
At best, the only thing he can hope for is possibly some sort of financial compensation on the FIA and F1 because of that (Because Bernie's inability to shut the hell up), otherwise reversing the results ain't happening. It is far beyond whatever stature of limitations they imposed and is simply foolish. And if F1 doesn't look like its already in a not-ideal spot now between the cost cap breach of the team that's currently dominating (As well as another supposed cost cap breach this year, which is makign the Cost cap look like abit of a joke), taking one of Hamiliton's championships away 15 whole years after the fact (Championship #1 ontop of that) is gonna make the 2021 fallout look tame in comparison. Hell, even IMSA didn't take MSR's Rolex 24 win away, just the points gained (because that would look bad after all the pictures and celebratory media already done afterward, just to give the trophy to someone else a whole two months after the fact).

Foolish and deluded. You lost, Massa. Just accept it.
 
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F1twt is gonna go feral about AD21 again because of this aren't they?
 
TumeK5
You can't really blame him though. I bet it still bites Hamilton as well that Masi did Verstappen a tiny favor.
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I understand the feeling of being wronged, but to feel like you can get THAT reversed just for you is beyond selfish as it doesn't take into account the others. Hamilton sure as hell didn't know this was going on and neither did the cars behind Alonso that unintentionally benefitted. As much as Hamilton felt wronged about 2021, even he's not going to THESE extreme lengths to right it and arguably if anything, he's still in a position where championship #8 could still happen (whenever Mercedes remembers how to build a competitive car again). Again, its been 15 Years. This case shouldn't even be about the championship, it should be about the F1 and FIA's awful operation in regards to this situation (And only god knows how many others that we don't know about). Just feels to me Massa's been swayed by some typical Lawyer who boosted his Charisma stats and just like with the one that tried to convince the family of that Sprint car driver to get money out of Tony Stewart, is only doing it to play off the emotion for a massive payday.

TumeK5
He should sue Great Britain for existing on the sea.
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And while he's at, go after Mother Nature as well. How dare she act like this at such a crucial point with the South American weather.
 
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Lest we forget, 2008 was also the year in which Massa won a race when the FIA penalised the race-winner and then wrote a new rule after the race to justify it and refused any appeal because the penalty given could not be appealed.
 
Since a Renault driver did not win the championship, there is absolutely no way that they can give Massa the championship.
 
Famine
wrote a new rule
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Which one did they invent? I thought the stewards failed to penalise Hamilton during the race but applied the existing "gaining an advantage" rule afterwards and just refused to hear any objections to it.
 
Liquid
Which one did they invent? I thought the stewards failed to penalise Hamilton during the race but applied the existing "gaining an advantage" rule afterwards and just refused to hear any objections to it.
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Well Yes But Actually No GIF by walter_


But then also sort-of, yes... maybe.

They opted for a very specific interpretation of the existing rule regarding leaving the track and gaining an advantage, wherein they determined that Hamilton had done that - and he had indeed - but elected to totally ignore the fact he had immediately given the place back. Like, not even hesitated in doing it, and was barely even a car's length ahead anyway:



McLaren would also later add that Raikkonen had crowded him off track and Hamilton elected (with the rain starting again) to take the safe path through the corner (he absolutely could have braked, of course) before ceding any advantage, and was then being clocked as slower than Raikkonen as they crossed the line with Raikkonen ahead but - as you'll see from the video above, the McLaren was simply significantly faster with the circuit becoming colder and wetter (Raikkonen would crash out of the race that same lap, Hamilton somehow drove to the finish on the slicks while being caught by all the cars on Inters, including Coulthard who unlapped himself from 15s back) and that Charlie Whiting had said he had done enough by ceding the position.

After giving the 25-second penalty post-race, given in lieu of a drive-through penalty which could not be served in the race (a penalty which cannot be challenged, but they let the appeal get as far as the Court of Appeal anyway), the FIA rewrote the rules (a week later, but before the appeal) to say that drivers who gain an advantage from cutting a corner but give the place back should wait at least one more corner before attempting to overtake again.

However that clarification is superfluous: the FIA gave Hamilton the penalty for cutting a corner and gaining an advantage, even though he'd ceded the place back immediately. It was an obvious after-the-fact justification for slapping a penalty onto the race-winner because they felt the spirit of the regulations wasn't being adhered to, but actually didn't materially affect the absolutely unique and robotic decision to punish a driver in this manner.
 
2008 title still hurts not only briatore robbed us.

At the same time watching the costly mistake Ferrari did with the fuel hose. I watched it live.

I can say not just Nelson piquet jnr crashing on purpose that made Massa lose the title but also a lot of it was self inflicted in 2008. Ferrari lost so much points that they could have avoided it going down to the wire in Brazil.

Its best Massa moves on but at the same time there should be accountability regarding Bernie eccelstone.

Its been 15 years whats the point? You cant strip the title off Hamilton.
 
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It does stand to reason that Massa would've won the championship if Piquet wasn't told to crash - despite the errors that were made by him and Ferrari. If the allegations are true, Bernie has a case to answer for. His job as the F1 boss was to ensure that fair competition could take place and he didn't (supposedly), which is negligence. And before you jump down my throat and say that Hamilton should get his 8th championship, just remember that the decision was NOT pre-meditated. It was an incorrect judgement call on Masi's part - Verstappen being the beneficiary. No fixing was involved...
 
ScottPye20
It does stand to reason that Massa would've won the championship if Piquet wasn't told to crash - despite the errors that were made by him and Ferrari.
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What ifs aren't one input / one output. There are way too many variables to say that Massa would have won the 2008 title if Piquet hadn't crashed.

What if Piquet genuinely crashed, or retired, too soon?
What if another driver crashed at roughly the same time as Piquet, bringing out the safety car anyway?
What if Massa suffered a mechanical failure later in the race if he escaped from his pit stop as normal?
What if Hamilton finished 2nd instead of 3rd?

Most importantly, there were still three (3) races left after the Singaporean Grand Prix. How many variables could have gone either way with 30pts up for grabs? (75pts in today's money)

In an 18 race season you cannot change one race as being "the point". You can point out on lost opportunities that could have been a decisive turn but most of the time it's difficult to suggest a guaranteed change of events when there is still so much left to happen.
 
Liquid
What ifs aren't one input / one output. There are way too many variables to say that Massa would have won the 2008 title if Piquet hadn't crashed.

What if Piquet genuinely crashed, or retired, too soon?
What if another driver crashed at roughly the same time as Piquet, bringing out the safety car anyway?
What if Massa suffered a mechanical failure later in the race if he escaped from his pit stop as normal?
What if Hamilton finished 2nd instead of 3rd?

Most importantly, there were still three (3) races left after the Singaporean Grand Prix. How many variables could have gone either way with 30pts up for grabs? (75pts in today's money)

In an 18 race season you cannot change one race as being "the point". You can point out on lost opportunities that could have been a decisive turn but most of the time it's difficult to suggest a guaranteed change of events when there is still so much left to happen.
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I still believe Ferrari losing in 2008 came from self infliction.

They won the constructors because they were consistent in points. Race to the wire could have been avoided if Ferrari and Massa did not do stupid mistakes. Gather up the points to win.

It was pretty stupid to believe their gut feeling that hamilton would have missed out on points in the last race.
 
I've always thought that Renault (and Alonso) should have been disqualified from the Singapore GP completely, and Alonso should not have been awarded 10 pts.

Bumping all the drivers up one spot on the scoreboard would have resulted in a net gain of 2 points for Lewis over Massa, so I can't see how Massa has a case for claiming the world title.

Lewis's case again Verstappen for the 2021 title, on the other hand...
 
The appeal isn’t to gain the title, it is for the FIA to make up for the money not earned due to not winning the title because the FIA knew about crashgate.

Personally, I think it is water under the bridge and move along.

Or will Hill appeal because Schumacher should have been disqualified from 1994 because of illigal traction control and ABS?
Should Senna and Prost swap titles due to the crashes at Suzuka?
Sports can be cruel. That what makes it hard, interesting and intriguing, at times.
 
When Schumacher was removed from the 1997 table, no one was moved up to take his position. So even if Renault were removed from the championship who is to say others would be moved up?

Also, why wait until now when two of the key figures involved are dead (Max & Charlie), and another (Bernie) can't be trusted as a reliable witness?
 
daan
Also, why wait until now when two of the key figures involved are dead (Max & Charlie), and another (Bernie) can't be trusted as a reliable witness?
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That's probably also the answer to the question :lol:
 
daan
When Schumacher was removed from the 1997 table, no one was moved up to take his position. So even if Renault were removed from the championship who is to say others would be moved up?

Also, why wait until now when two of the key figures involved are dead (Max & Charlie), and another (Bernie) can't be trusted as a reliable witness?
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Massa doesn’t protest the final standing or outcome.

Maybe Felipe went all-in on Twitter stocks and NFt’s and now needs cash…
 
I don't get it; we all won because Flavio Briatore was banned for a whateverty number of years.

Unfortunately, at the time, the pit lane blackballed the wrong Piquet.
 
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daan
When Schumacher was removed from the 1997 table, no one was moved up to take his position.
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Technically they were; Schumacher kept his racing statistics for that year but Frentzen was runner-up in 1997 and Coulthard was 3rd. Both Wikipedia (so it must be true!) and Formula One's official website both reflect this.

You could disqualify Alonso from the race and just freeze everyone else's positions like in cycling... if it was 2009 and we'd only just publicly found out. The simple fact is that Felipe Massa didn't win the 2008 championship and waiting 15 years, which included him continuing to drive in F1 for 8 years, has only hindered any sympathy he might have had.
 
I can understand wanting to get some money out of it but he also wants to be recognized as the rightful 2008 champ because of this one race, which is pretty funny.

He could’ve been a champion if he didn’t spin like 7 times at Silverstone too.
 
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Veinz
He could’ve been a champion if he didn’t spin like 7 times at Silverstone too.
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Or crash into Hamilton and Bourdais at Fuji, a race which was after Singapore and a race where Bourdais' undeserved post-race time penalty gave Massa an extra positon and point.
 
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All Massa is going to do is ruin his reputation, regardless of the outcome, what it with Brazilian drivers and ruining reputations these days? First the Piquets....
 

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