Ferrari F430 Scuderia (Watch out world!)

[Drag]

yssman that is true but when GM reniged at the time they paid 1/3 what they were supposed to outright buy Fiat for so they paid fiat alot of money i belive it was around the 2 billion mark and got nothing out of the deal... seems like a waste of money thats like paying a third of the price of a game to rent it.. but what u said about GM being in trouble thats far from the case... since when has GM ever showed their hand thats why they'll always be around as the strongest automobile producer

 

[YSSMAN]

Yes, they did pay in for the $2 Billion, but I believe FIAT was demanding another $8B (or was it $12B) on top of that in order to become part of the GM family. Quite honestly, no one in Detroit wanted FIAT at the time, as this was still a company that was teetering on extinction due to poor selling products in the Alfa and FIAT lines. GM, at least in my mind, was correct in their choice for an engineering partnership, but for FIAT to actually think they were to be acquired by GM, that was a mistake.

...And while I'd agree now that GM isn't quite in the trouble that they used to be, the whole question of "used to be" pretty much was defined at that moment. They didn't have many (if any at all) that were truly competitive with the foreign-made models (this was when the Cavalier still roamed the Earth), they were teetering on slumping sales and dwindling stock prices, and generally didn't have a great direction as to what was up, and what was down.

If anything, the FIAT deal was the first moment in which Wagoner, Lutz, and many of the other board members kinda realized "Hey, maybe we aren't in as good of shape as we thought we were..." I mean, sure, they continue to be the world's largest automaker, and I'm certainly in the camp at GM that says they made the right decision to get rid of FIAT and get out of the deal. Furthermore, I think they made the right decision dumping Isuzu, Fuji, and Suzuki as well. I think I'm quite content brand wise where they are today, but more or less, its going to be about GM deciding who gets, and furthermore who builds, what and where.

There is nothing that I love more than GM, and the longer you hang around here, the more you will see it. My problem is, at least with other GM folks, is that I'm more of a realist in some circumstances, something that doesn't always occur here in Michigan. I do my best to tow the line, but when you've got stupid people still making stupid decisions in Detroit, thats a problem.

===

...And either way, even if GM did buy into FIAT, they wouldn't have gotten Ferrari. It would have been much the same situation as what we're seeing with Proton and Lotus over at VW, brands jumbling things around because they want this or that, but the good stuff stays away.

A Ferrari with a Corvette, much less the oft-rumored "hyper" Cadillac wouldn't do well for business. Its better that we let Ferrari be Ferrari, and build cars as mentioned in this thread.

 

[Tornado]

The $2 billion GM paid was to get them out of the put option Fiat decided to enforce it. Had GM not paid it, they would have had to pay considerably more to buy the brand. Like Mercedes with Chrysler: Paying for the right to not own a brand.

 

[Drag]

yssman in the two post you've made regarding mine since i've joined i feel like ur a brother of mine with ur ideals for GM, Only thing i'm saying is that GM knew they wouldn't die out even with stock going down it was a crucial time in the late 80s early 90s when gas was going up and the technology wasn't goin hand in hand. Look now though the Corvette being a sportcar is one of the most fuel effiecient cars gm has it's funny really my moms 03 gets better gas milage then my 06 miata.. that says alot i think. but i just think it would be nice if GM had their hand in other companies pockets thats a great idea to me... if anything it's putting more minds together... i mean it's not as much as GM using say ferrari engines in corvettes or vice versa when gm did own portions of those other companies all they did was adopt technology and share it as well... another thing.. the private investor company that bought chrysler mentioned the probability of them splitting the divisions of the companies and selling them off.. i would absolutely love for GM to buy mitsubishi but thats on a personal note

 

[YSSMAN]

I often feel that I'm the last guy to stand up for GM around here, so its nice to see someone else who will (probably) do the same...

The big problem with what you speak of is that even though GM would have been able to share with FIAT or Ferrari, given how long it took them to realize that Opel and Holden were engineering powerhouses, its questionable that the Italians would have been put to good use.

GM, thankfully has gotten wise on the whole deal, and managed to sell off what it didn't need, and bought up some of what it did. The recent purchase of VM Motori seems like a good idea, as they do build some quite-decent diesel engines available across the world market. Sure, it was sad to see Detroit Diesel go (my Uncle used to work for them before moving into GM product development), and the same can be said for Allison Transmission, but alas, it had to happen.

...Although I'm sure some Ferrari-designed heads on a Corvette would have been interesting. I'd guess that they'd go crazy over the fact we're still using pushrods...

As for the rumored Chrysler "break-up," I don't see it happening any time soon. Mitsubishi hasn't been a part of the fold for a while, as they broke a majority of their ties a few years back. They still share parts and platforms, but even that may end soon enough. Hyundai was floating in there for a while as well, but even they were a bit pissed-off, and left without saying goodbye.

Between Daewoo and Opel, GM doesn't have a horrible thing going when it comes to small cars. Sure, a Daewoo can only be so good, but the GM relationship certainly has made the cars quite a bit better, nearly passable for decent transportation here in the US and in many places around the world. Mitsubishi wouldn't be a good choice simply because they're in more than enough financial trouble of their own, and while pretty much losing the US market year after year, its only a matter of time before something truly drastic will need to be done.

It would have been nice to maybe see GM consider the purchase of Jaguar and Land Rover, but they wouldn't have fit in with the company... So they may, or may not, be going to Tata (yes, its a real company). But in all seriousness, I think if GM really wanted to partner with a foreign company to get better products off the ground, I'd like to see them strike a deal with Peugeot/Citroen. Their wonderfully decent cars are becoming quite attractive, and furthermore, they've got plenty of great diesel technology to be played with... This being said however, Opel wouldn't be happy.

GM is in a good spot right now. I'm looking forward to their sales figures for Q2 2007, given that Ford posted a *surprise* profit for the same period. One can only hope for the best...