FFB Reversed?

[LeMansAid]

Got an odd little one here. It seems that I may have partially reversed force feedback using my ECCI 7000.

Have tested in several games. In all of them so far, when stationary, turning resistance is negligible, but resistance increases as speed is gained. The opposite of how it was, and the opposite of how it should be. So, not reversed force, but reversed level of force.

I'm thinking I might need to re-install drivers as the first thing to check off the list, but does anyone have further insight or ideas?

 

[vasiliflame]

Got an odd little one here. It seems that I may have partially reversed force feedback using my ECCI 7000.

Have tested in several games. In all of them so far, when stationary, turning resistance is negligible, but resistance increases as speed is gained. The opposite of how it was, and the opposite of how it should be. So, not reversed force, but reversed level of force.

I'm thinking I might need to re-install drivers as the first thing to check off the list, but does anyone have further insight or ideas?

Do it use a Logitech board? I know in rfactor I had to swapp the force feedback

 

[LeMansAid]

It uses generic Immersion TouchSense drivers. Thing is, it was perfectly fine with Assetto Corsa etc., etc., but suddenly changed. I don't know if I hit a tab/checked a box or something by accident, but I can't really see much to un-hit. Seems like it's probably global though, rather than specific to one game/sim.

 

[Blkout]

Probably very few people here with an ECCI 7000, I'd say reinstall the drivers first.

 

[kikie]

I remember that I had reversed FFB with my G27 in rFactor. I had to change the steering wheel settings ingame to correct it. It's been more than 3 years, I believe even 4 - 5 years that I played rFactor but as far as I remember, you have to reverse the FFB settings ingame (I believe a negative value). Not sure though.

 

[LeMansAid]

Update: Re-installed the drivers to no avail. I have been communicating with ECCI directly and am blown away with how quick and detailed the responses have been from them. Based even on this little experience with them I can highly recommend them as a company. Please support whenever possible.

It seems that I might have some cross contamination with some DS3 drivers I was mucking around with (Motioninjoy and BetterDS3). Unfortunately after uninstalling and trying to remove all components of the two the problem remains. I am however concerned that there may be remnants still hiding somewhere. I'm really not all that much chop with my pc knowledge, any advice?

 

[turdhat]

Try using a system restore point from before you started driver swapping. I am speaking of the bulit in system restore in windows that keeps all your files but will roll back driver changes. Do not use the recommended restore point. Make sure you get some dates to choose from so you can have more places to roll it back. You may have to google system restore and your version of windows as it can vary in how you get to it.

 

[vasiliflame]

Update: Re-installed the drivers to no avail. I have been communicating with ECCI directly and am blown away with how quick and detailed the responses have been from them. Based even on this little experience with them I can highly recommend them as a company. Please support whenever possible.

It seems that I might have some cross contamination with some DS3 drivers I was mucking around with (Motioninjoy and BetterDS3). Unfortunately after uninstalling and trying to remove all components of the two the problem remains. I am however concerned that there may be remnants still hiding somewhere. I'm really not all that much chop with my pc knowledge, any advice?

Had the same issue used motion joy and it totally stuffed my pcs drivers I backed up all my data and did a re-install of windows and everything was a ok , I avoid it at all cost now .. That was when I used a dfgt

 

[LeMansAid]

Had the same issue used motion joy and it totally stuffed my pcs drivers I backed up all my data and did a re-install of windows and everything was a ok , I avoid it at all cost now .. That was when I used a dfgt

The frustrating thing is that motioninjoy was only ever going to be a means to an end, and not staying on the computer anyway. I've managed to clear things enough that the calibration works normally (it wasn't), but ffb is still suspect. Will have to go bigger I suppose.

Thanks for yours and @turdhat's feedback.

 

[LeMansAid]

Sadly, this is still a thing. After quite a while of not having my rig set up I recently started gearing up to get it all happening again. First thing I did was do a full system reinstall, but much to my bewilderment, the problem persists.

It's doing my head in to the point where I feel like I need to ask a really stupid question to get my bearings. Should ffb resistance be very strong when a car is stationary? That's how I understand it, but when I sway side to side in a car gradually slowing down to a stop I feel the ffb strength gradually decrease and become very light when stationary.

At this stage I'm testing on a DFGT which tells me that it was likely never anything to do with the ECCI wheel. Is there any chance that the bug that I had (suspected to be from motioninjoy) could have snuck across when I copied Steam games from my old drive (set up as usb with enclosure)? The games were the only thing copied over.

Edit - Although only ever having seen a DFGT, Device Manager on my system shows 11 x HID device listings. Is that strange?

 

[Blkout]

OK, lets start over.

Assuming Windows is installed correctly, DX is updated, all PC and wheel drivers properly installed, wheel is connected to USB 2.0 port and recognized by Windows properly. What game specifically are you having issues with and what are your in game settings? Does the ECCI have its own control panel and what are those settings?

Lets focus on one game at a time, I have most of all of the current PC racing games.

 

[LeMansAid]

- Using mainly Assetto Corsa to test, but also tested with Dirt 3, Next Car Game: Wreckfest, Grid Autosport, R3E, with the same results.

- I'm not using the ECCI at the moment. Using a DFGT to instead, but getting the same results as I was with the ECCI.

- Assetto ffb and steering settings I think are back to default - Gain- 100%, Filter- 0%, Damping- 0%, Minimum Force- 0%, Kerb- 100%, Road- 80%, Slip- 20%, Gamma- 1.00, Filter-0.00, Speed Sensitivity- 0.00.

- DFGT settings are default I think, except for changing 200 degrees to 900 - FFB enabled, Overall Effects Strength- 100%, Spring Effect Strength- 100%, Damper Effect Strength- 100%. Centering Spring disabled. Realism setting is on PRO.

I appreciate the response, and would love to get this sorted out. As a test case - in a stationary Lotus 98T I get a very light wheel, but heavy when still stationary but brakes are pushed. It's just feels way off.

Thanks again.

 

[Blkout]

- Using mainly Assetto Corsa to test, but also tested with Dirt 3, Next Car Game: Wreckfest, Grid Autosport, R3E, with the same results.

- I'm not using the ECCI at the moment. Using a DFGT to instead, but getting the same results as I was with the ECCI.

- Assetto ffb and steering settings I think are back to default - Gain- 100%, Filter- 0%, Damping- 0%, Minimum Force- 0%, Kerb- 100%, Road- 80%, Slip- 20%, Gamma- 1.00, Filter-0.00, Speed Sensitivity- 0.00.

- DFGT settings are default I think, except for changing 200 degrees to 900 - FFB enabled, Overall Effects Strength- 100%, Spring Effect Strength- 100%, Damper Effect Strength- 100%. Centering Spring disabled. Realism setting is on PRO.

I appreciate the response, and would love to get this sorted out. As a test case - in a stationary Lotus 98T I get a very light wheel, but heavy when still stationary but brakes are pushed. It's just feels way off.

Thanks again.

I don't have a DFGT but I can't imagine it being much different than most other wheels on the market since its just a precursor to the G25. Maybe someone else with a DFGT can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong here but I did have a G27 for a little while and I recall the Logitech G27 control panel could screw up in game settings if you created a specific game profile instead of using the global but I'm not sure if that's applicable to the DFGT.

That being said, your AC settings look fine although you might drop the kerb and road settings to 0% until you get the FFB dialed in and then start raising those until you find a setting you like. Every wheel is different and every user preference is different but I use 60/30/30 with the Fanatec CSW v2. Anyway, all your other AC settings look fine.

Since AC doesn't have a default DFGT profile, did you go through the custom wheel setup wizard and then save the profile when you were done? I've found AC doesn't often work correctly without using a profile even if its one you created yourself, so you will need to make sure you name your custom profile when you're done.

I just got finished running a hot lap with the 98T and I can say that what you're saying doesn't sound right based on what I felt just now. The FFB in the 98T was pretty consistent the whole time, its not as heavy as the BMW Z4 GT3 but I wouldn't call it light either and it wasn't any heavier during braking.

Have you changed any of the vehicle settings in AC for the 98T?

 

[LeMansAid]

- I had done the custom wheel set up, and saved. Yes.

- Settings for 98T are at default.

To be clear, the problems are most obvious when the car is stationary. Where the wheel should be heavy due to tyre friction, it is extremely light. Applying brakes makes the wheel very heavy, and feel how it should with or without brakes applied. At very low speed I still get a very light wheel, but over 30kmph the wheel is increasingly heavy. At higher speeds where the wheel should be very light, it is heavy. Also, when taking off from stationary with wheel at full lock, I get very weak centering force because of the low level ffb.

So, as per the thread title, it seems that I have reversed ffb. Not in direction, but in strength.

 

[Blkout]

There's really no reason for your FFB to be reversed in AC though. Some games that are sensitive to such FFB direction will include an option to reverse it or a slider to use negative values but AC is not one of them because its not necessary. Are you sure you're not experiencing low downforce, less FFB strength due to low resistance but at high speed where downforce is stronger the FFB strength increases?

When FFB is reversed its very noticeable, basically the wheel feels normal until you get ready to turn it even slightly to the left or right, when you do the wheel will usually pull very hard to whichever side you're turning to and will basically turn until it hits the stop if you don't stop it with your hands.

Nothing else really makes any sense if you're sure your game settings and wheel settings have been reset to default values and haven't been overridden somehow with custom settings.

 

[Blue028]

It is a shortcoming with the simulation not your wheel. No Sim on the market has perfect ffb simulation for all cercumstances (Iracing is pretty close though from my experience)

 

[Blkout]

It is a shortcoming with the simulation not your wheel. No Sim on the market has perfect ffb simulation for all cercumstances (Iracing is pretty close though from my experience)

I think AC's FFB is very good, but I also agree that iRacing has great FFB, physics however for iRacing still need improvement compared to its competition.

 

[LeMansAid]

There's really no reason for your FFB to be reversed in AC though. Some games that are sensitive to such FFB direction will include an option to reverse it or a slider to use negative values but AC is not one of them because its not necessary. Are you sure you're not experiencing low downforce, less FFB strength due to low resistance but at high speed where downforce is stronger the FFB strength increases?

AC does have a reverse ffb option, but that's not the kind of reversal I need anyway. Like I said, the problem is reversed strength rather than direction.

I wondered about downforce, but I'm getting the same deal even with the Fiat 500.

It is a shortcoming with the simulation not your wheel. No Sim on the market has perfect ffb simulation for all cercumstances (Iracing is pretty close though from my experience)

It's the change that I'm worried about most of all. There was a point where ffb suddenly became different. Thing is, it appears to be global, as other games/sims were/are giving me the same results.

 

[Blkout]

AC does have a reverse ffb option, but that's not the kind of reversal I need anyway. Like I said, the problem is reversed strength rather than direction.

I wondered about downforce, but I'm getting the same deal even with the Fiat 500.



It's the change that I'm worried about most of all. There was a point where ffb suddenly became different. Thing is, it appears to be global, as other games/sims were/are giving me the same results.

If it doesn't feel correct to you normal or inverted, then its just your perception of how the FFB should be; its not the wheel or the game. If it were just one wheel doing this then it might be something worth looking into but not likely you have two different wheels doing this.