FIA Certification for Fantasy Tracks

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by JTB10000, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. JTB10000

    JTB10000

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    As I don't know much about what goes into officially certifying a track, I'm curious about what you guys think of the GT fanasy tracks with the specifications in mind if you're familiar with them. I saw a discussion about this that I'm not sure was its own thread or a conversation in a general thread; thought it would be an interesting topic if not the former. So like:

    • Which, if any, would practically be FIA ready as they are/were

    • Which would never receive certification no matter how many changes are made

    • What changes would need to be made in order to certify them, etc.

    I'm specifically curious about the Dragon Trails and if their ridiculously high rumble strips and the chicane of death on Seaside would be allowed.
     
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  2. Canucks_9419

    Canucks_9419

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    IMO, only Apricot Hill, Grand Valley, and perhaps High Speed/Autumn Rings would be closest to certifiable compared to the current batch of tracks.

    As per Seaside plenty of tight bus stops exist real world (mind you with run off areas :lol:), Nurb GP, and even parts of Green Hell have pretty treacherous curbs as well.
     
  3. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Sausage curbs exist on plenty of tracks and would not be an issue, nor would the chicane on Seaside (as the regs are fine with minimal run off when the barrier is parallel to the direction of travel (keep in mind the biggest issue here is driving standards - not the track layout). The big no-no on Seaside is the hairpin direction before/after the chicane (depending on the direction of travel), as that doesn't have close to enough run-off for a head-on barrier that is approached at very high speed.
     
  4. Granadier

    Granadier

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    I don’t think the Chicane of Death would ever pass certification because of its lack of run off and incredibly dangerous wall clearances on the optimum line.

    Watkins Glen here in NY has a similar bus stop chicane, but it includes huge run off areas.
    upload_2020-2-17_9-47-30.jpeg
     
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  5. VFOURMAX1

    VFOURMAX1

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    I would tend to disagree on the chicane as meeting safety standards as the wall jutting out on the left on the entrance and the right hand side on the exit of the chicane could very well be hit head on if there was a mistake or contact from a following vehicle at the wrong point of the leading vehicles turn in.
     
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  6. Satomiblood

    Satomiblood

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    What are everyone's thoughts on Lago Maggiore?
     
  7. Lilium

    Lilium

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    I think Maggiore would pass.
    Its also my fav fantasy track here in GTS. it flows well, even in reverse. Has lots of run off. i don't see why not.
     
  8. VulcanSpirit

    VulcanSpirit

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    Would have thought that the death chicane wouldn't be much different to the Piscine complex at Monaco, to be honest.

    For me, Lago Maggiore and Dragon Trail Gardens already look and feel like ideal FIA-ready circuits. Kyoto Yamagiwa could also work if there were larger run-off areas/gravel traps put in throughout.
     
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  9. VFOURMAX1

    VFOURMAX1

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    One of the big advantages of a fantasy circuit is the ability to change the layout and coding of the circuit to fit whatever criteria was needed. Need more runoff, well draw the walls further back off the course and put gravel traps in front of them.

    There really is no reason to run any fantasy circuit under the FIA championship banner that would not meet real world specs. Change what does not meet the specs.
     
  10. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    At Monaco, that "COD" had a runoff area built. Same would have to be done at DTS. The wall would be removed.

    Lago has the sand trap at the hairpin. I think T1 would need to be revised, in case a car runs straight ahead.
     
  11. Satomiblood

    Satomiblood

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    I actually wouldn't be averse to seeing older fantasy tracks as they originally appeared along with alternate, FIA certified versions of those old layouts.
     
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  12. watto79

    watto79

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    What get's approved in the real world is often difficult to predict. Monaco as an example arguably exists because of historical reasons, but Azerbaijan has some questionable corners.

    b63a0cc3-90c4-4af1-85fe-77e61450f8bc.jpg

    It seems like they make exceptions for street circuits over purpose built race tracks, where we end up with featureless expanses of tarmac such as Yas Marina and Circuit Paul Ricard.

    DgToh1_W0Acmouy.jpg

    Anyway, it would be amazing if Lago Maggiore were to exist in real life. That seems the most life like fictional track in GTSport.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  13. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    DTG has a similar flow to Sydney Motorsport Park. It's ready to be built as is.
     
  14. pedrocor

    pedrocor

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    Well... very tricky anwser...

    "FIA Grading" has 6 grades:
    Grade 1 - Can be used to race any form of racing, including Formula 1
    Grade 1T - Similar to grade 2 but can be used to F1 tests
    Grade 2 - Can be used to any form of racing with cars and formulas with a weight to power ratio equal or superior to 1kg/hp.
    Grade 3 - Can't be used by formula cars (FIA categories at least), can be used by cars weight to power ratio equal or superior to 2kg/hp.
    Grade 3E - Can be used by Formula E cars
    Grade 4 - Can be used by cars weight to power ratio equal or superior to 3kg/hp.

    So, there are many things to be considered. Things like the Chicane of Death in Dragon Trail, without run off areas, wouldn't be allowed on a Grade 1 track, for sure (even Monaco had to figure out some run off area at Piscines section) but it would be acceptable on a Grade 3E Formula E track, although, most Formula E tracks have a considerably low average and top speed, compared to a regular track.

    Generally, on a Grade 3 or Grade 4 level, many tracks would fit in, even many popular real world circuits can't do better than that, even some present on GT franchise, like:
    - Mount Panorama (Grade 3)
    - Nurburgring (24h Course combined Nordschleife + GP circuit) (Grade 3)
    - Tsukuba (Grade 3)

    Or not on GT franchise:
    - Adelaide Street Circuit (Grade 3)
    - Mantorp Park (Grade 3)
    - Oulton Park (Grade 3)
    - Phillip Island (Grade 3)
    - Sandown Raceway (Grade 3)
    - Thruxton Circuit (Grade 3)
    - Enna Pergusa (Grade 4)
    - Mondelo Park (Grade 4)
     
  15. HopAlong

    HopAlong

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    The FIA grading system seems a little all over the place so it would be hard to predict, I also think $$$ can have influence on the grade too as Portimao used to be 1T an is now grade 2. So in the FIA's eyes, Portimao isn't as safe as Baku and Mosport (grade 2) is safer than Knockhill (grade 3), I personally would much rather have a crash at Portimao or Knockhill than either of the other two.

    One thing for certain is that the reverse layouts would need to change the barriers where the gaps in the Armco are for it to be licenced, so cars could leave the track or hit the end of the wall.
     
  16. juanffy18

    juanffy18

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    In other cases, some of the classic fictional circuits like Midfield, Grand Valley, High Speed Ring, Tokyo R246, Apricot Hill, Time Trial works in the FIA certification?
     
  17. pedrocor

    pedrocor

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    In Portimão case, I believe it's a matter of a clerical error in FIA listing. It absolutely misses the most updated listings at all.
    In between as a matter of fact loose the grade 1, as the company behind ownership of the Circuit faced the need of debt restructuring some 7-8 years ago and couldn't meet some required minor modifications to keep the grading, but it was publicized in Portugal that they received the full Grade 1 in mid 2017.

    The reverse tracks... in real world is almost impossible to workout a reverse track, it must be a very smart track design to make possible to have barriers and run off areas that workout both ways
     
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  18. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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  19. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

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    I don't know about that idea.
    Problem with the older fictional circuits is that as they were originally, they were tracks made with only 6 cars in mind (As can be seen with some of the pit lanes). Having them in their original state now in a game that holds way more then 6 cars (Offline and Online) with both there size and how much bigger cars are now, the raceability would not be quite good. At best, just modernizing them the way Apricot Hill, Mid-Field and High Speed Ring were is the best way of having them as they were both current but still are that circuit many remember them as. As they are, those three just based on their more modern design would be quite easily FIA approved (Although HSR might be abit questionable seeing as their aren't alot of approved tracks with a bridge over a body of water)
     
  20. Satomiblood

    Satomiblood

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    The older fantasy circuits have also featured larger car grids in later GT titles. I’ll have to look up some YouTube videos of GT5/GT6 lobby races at Trial Mountain and Deep Forest to see whether or not these problems are grossly exaggerated. Because honestly, from my experience, I can’t see how they wouldn’t work for online racing now (FIA certified or not).
     
  21. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

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    I know right off, Deep forest for example was narrow pretty much everywhere that wasn't the front straight, the back straight or turn one so two cars barely worked. Same for Trail Mountain (Which was as far as I can remember a upscaled PS2 track). While these two for instance did hold more cars in their last appearance in GT6, racing was again limited to those certain sections. By that time, High Speed Ring and Apricot Hill and Mid-Field Raceway were the only truly modernized fictional circuits from the PS1 games that were actually designed to hold more then 6 cars.
     
  22. Phaceless_Ph

    Phaceless_Ph

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    Watkins Glen is actually an FIA Grade 2 circuit, which means it can host anything other than F1.
     
  23. Satomiblood

    Satomiblood

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    I know @MIE1992 proposed run-off areas as one solution for the originals. I do agree with you about Apricot Hill. I actually think that track would be perfect for Gr.4.