Fight for $15. (Fast food protest)

$15 minimum wage, emergency leave become law as Ontario passes labour reform legislation

That's rather unfortunate for my fellow Canadians across the country.

It certainly is, it'll be a lot harder for the average teenager to get a part time job or even anyone in retail. I think we'll see a lot of small businesses and maybe some small chain stores go under. You simply cannot just willy-nilly pay everyone $3.40 more the next day. Quick math says Walmart at one store given 25 employees working in a store probably 5 are above minimum so 20 people x $3.40 x 8 hours = $544 per day. Multiply that by 365 less 8 stat holidays = $194,208 more that the store has to bring in to break even. Of course boo hoo Walmart is a multple billion dollar business with questionable business practices so who cares about them? Well consider Habitat for Humanity Re-Stores, now you're eating into the capabilities of a non-profit charity to raise money to build homes for these low income families. Plus the more you raise the minimum the less you make our dollar worth because it's now more ubiquitous.
 
That's why the law is phased in over an extra year and minimum wage is lower for high school students.

Min wage in Ontario went from $8 in 2007 to $10.25 in 2010. $11.60 in 2017 to $14 in 2018 then $15 in 2019 is a bigger change but it's not like there's never been big increases before. Alberta's gone from $12.20 to $13.60 then is going to $15 next year as well.

For Americans $15 CAD is about $11.80 in USD right now.
 
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That's why the law is phased in over an extra year and minimum wage is lower for high school students.

Min wage in Ontario went from $8 in 2007 to $10.25 in 2010. $11.60 in 2017 to $14 in 2018 then $15 in 2019 is a bigger change but it's not like there's never been big increases before. Alberta's gone from $12.20 to $13.60 then is going to $15 next year as well.

For Americans $15 CAD is about $11.80 in USD right now.
Wages are going up 20% overnight. The extra year only adds another 7% to the total.
 
Full automation is coming regardless if minimum wage is $15 or $0. Humans are unreliable, inefficient screw-ups.

The question is how do we survive the inevitable?
 
Full automation is coming regardless if minimum wage is $15 or $0. Humans are unreliable, inefficient screw-ups.

The question is how do we survive the inevitable?
Machines are not totally 100% reliable. Until we have robots that can fix robots they'll need humans to fix the automatons.
 
Why should they be getting paid $15 when they can't even make my #9 with a medium fries without screwing it up? /sarcasm

Our Military gets paid roughly the same as what they want, yet they do a job that actually takes qualities to learn and be successful at.
 
They're a lot more reliable and accurate than the idiot customers who'll use them...
Hopefully the are a few non idiot engineers around to tell the repair technicians what to do.
 
What I don't get about minimum wage is why does it need to be $15 an hour across the board? If minimum wage is going to exist wouldn't it make more sense to do it according to the cost of living in an area? Where I used to live in Michigan, $15 an hour would allow someone to buy a small house and keep up on the mortgage, in SLC $15 an hour would allow you to get a small apartment in a bad area of town, and say in LA $15 an hour would let you live in a box on the corner.

Why should they be getting paid $15 when they can't even make my #9 with a medium fries without screwing it up? /sarcasm

Our Military gets paid roughly the same as what they want, yet they do a job that actually takes qualities to learn and be successful at.

Except those in the military get their housing paid for, food if they're stationed somewhere, completely covered health and dental, 30 paid days off, free travel on military aircrafts, a retirement plan, and a ton of other really nice perks. So even if they're only getting $15 an hour, their perks probably double or triple that. Not to mention you get a ton of money towards schooling and the added benefit of being considered over those without military service in many jobs.

Source
 
When minimum wage becomes a national or all state thing all you end up doing is pushing the unskilled workers out of the cities to cheaper likely rural places where they can afford to live comfortably, well atleast the ones smart enough to know better.
 
They're a lot more reliable and accurate than the idiot customers who'll use them...

I gravitate towards self-serve machines whenever they're available because lines are shorter and because I can cash myself out quicker than most cashiers... I also don't have be asked if I want to partake in any special offers!
 
The question is how do we survive the inevitable?

Adapt.

Cars were originally 100% hand made
From placing sheet metal on to a stamping press and taking the pressed metal off and placing it down the line, painting, installing the windows, ect.
To humans being removed from painting, the sheet metal line and window install.

I gravitate towards self-serve machines whenever they're available because lines are shorter and because I can cash myself out quicker than most cashiers... I also don't have be asked if I want to partake in any special offers!

I use them all the time when I can.
I prefer to bag the way I want rather than, separate bag for meat, spereate bag for fruits/vegeatables I put as much as I can in one bag greens and meat are both covered in plastic, no risk of cross contamination
Less bags means less crap in landfill.
And I can do the work faster.
Plus no chit chat.
I dont need to be asked How are you do today.

Treat going to the store like a pitstop, you want to be in and out as fast as possible.
 
I also don't have be asked if I want to partake in any special offers!

I’ve had the opposite experience. Seems like every self-serve kiosk I’ve used has about 3-4 screens asking if I’m a part of a rewards program or some other crap.
 
I’ve had the opposite experience. Seems like every self-serve kiosk I’ve used has about 3-4 screens asking if I’m a part of a rewards program or some other crap.

"0 bags used, skip, skip, credit".

Whew. :lol:
 
I gravitate towards self-serve machines whenever they're available because lines are shorter and because I can cash myself out quicker than most cashiers... I also don't have be asked if I want to partake in any special offers!

I should clarify, there are going to be some people, like you and I and the majority of us on this forum, who have absolutely no problem in using self-service machines. However, we are vastly outnumbered by those who struggle with this apparently simple premise. There's a brilliant quote from Douglas Adams in the HHGTTG books (I have a little cardboard plaque on my desk(:

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools
 
I should clarify, there are going to be some people, like you and I and the majority of us on this forum, who have absolutely no problem in using self-service machines. However, we are vastly outnumbered by those who struggle with this apparently simple premise. There's a brilliant quote from Douglas Adams in the HHGTTG books (I have a little cardboard plaque on my desk(:

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools
So we're fools for preferring human interaction sometimes? Personally I do not struggle with self serve machines and I do use them once in a while. But my preference is for human interaction.
 
"0 bags used, skip, skip, credit".

Whew. :lol:

More like.

Welcome>Start>No I’m not a member>No I don’t want to be a member>scan items and hope I can get things in the bag fast enough before triggering the baggage sensor>press finish button>select payment>press credit>confirm.

So we're fools for preferring human interaction sometimes? Personally I do not struggle with self serve machines and I do use them once in a while. But my preference is for human interaction.

That and it kind of feels like I’m paying the store for the privilege of working there. :lol:

I’ll use self checkouts if I only have a couple things and the normal lines are long. But otherwise I would rather make the store work for my money.
 
I hate self-checkout. If I have one or two things at Home Depot it's fine, but at the grocery store, I'd rather someone just scan and bag everything for me. Plus, one of those weird Utah laws says that you can't buy beer at a self-checkout so that sort of limits me on grocery day.
 
I prefer to bag the way I want rather than, separate bag for meat, spereate bag for fruits/vegeatables I put as much as I can in one bag greens and meat are both
Those plastic wrapped meats do leak blood. That's why they tell you don't store raw meat above vegetables.
Trust me...

And I do prefer self checkout.
Feels faster.
 
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Self checkout at Wegman's is easy.

Scan Item -> Bag/Skip Bagging (repeat for all items) -> Scan Coupons (y/n) -> Finish & Pay
 
Everybody wants what they can't have, and human nature is to want. People also commonly can't stand to see somebody have something they want, but can't have. How hard the person may have worked for whatever the desired thing is, is typically irrelevant to them.
Until that changes, no minimum wage will satisfy them.


If we want to all be rich, it's as simple as lowering the population. I'd be hard to convince that anything else can make the poor truly more wealthy.
Of course, ironically, it is the lower income classes that typically contribute the most to overpopulation.
 
Those plastic wrapped meats do leak blood. That's why they tell you don't store raw meat above vegetables.
Trust me...

And I do prefer self checkout.
Feels faster.

But your fruits and veggies are also in those plastic bags.
 
So we're fools for preferring human interaction sometimes? Personally I do not struggle with self serve machines and I do use them once in a while. But my preference is for human interaction.

I think this quote is being misinterpreted, and my original point has been lost; it means that no matter how simple you make something to use, somebody will still find it difficult to use.

It's not talking about personal preferences about mechanical or human interaction, but instead - and this is what my first point was about - self-service machines are more reliable than some of the people using them and some of the people they replace.
 
To begin, on a related note Amazon recently announced that they will increase the pay for the staff in their Seattle warehouses. It's not fast food but it is "low pay, bottom rung" perceived jobs and does relate to the end of my little ramble.

In Brixton, London there is a strike occurring today with staff of some similar companies and McDonald's is one of them. They're looking for £10/hour which is US$12.97, C$16.71, AUS$18.35 and €11.29 for international members who read this. I'm just going to paste what I wrote on Twitter. As an ex-McDonald's employee I had a few thoughts on this:

As someone who used to work in McDonald's for four years, I was, on the whole, treated fairly well. There were some things I didn't agree with but I am led to believe that that was down to the franchising practice rather than the parent company.

The grievances I did have were down to decisions made by either the owner of my franchise or the store manager of the outlet I worked in. e.g. We did not get paid more on Sunday and instead received more holiday days, which they were always reluctant to allow us to take. Again, I was led to believe that this was a local decision made by a franchiser who technically does not work for McDonald's, he just pays them a percentage for licence. I technically worked for S & V E Williams Ltd.; Mr S Williams was an accountant by trade who simply bought into the McDonald's business model. But I could be wrong, all of those decisions like holidays, Sunday pay and basic pay could indeed have been made by HQ.

I happened to work in a small, well-oiled tidy outlet. When people ask me what my "best job I've had" is, they're surprised when I say that my favourite is still Maccy D's. However, I appreciate some outlets are run like 🤬 and the staff are treated like 🤬. One thing has struck me reading about the strike. Workers in Brixton want £10 an hour. Fine, they're entitled to pursue that. I worked in Flintshire though; I just remember a manager saying how great £7 odd/hour was (US$9.08, C$11.70, AUS$12.85, €7.91), this was just under 10 years ago, and someone pointed out to her that "the cleaners in London ones get paid your shift manager's wage". When talking about minimum wages, there is always a huge disparage in purchasing power across the country. £10/hour in North Wales is eyewateringly astronomical.

For what it's worth, at the time a manager was making £7 something an hour in my particular outlet, I was making £4.25 (US$5.51, C$7.10, AUS$7.80, €4.80)

My only fear is that like the recent Amazon wage win, this is simply the first straw on the camel's back. They'll cave in and pay the staff more but then cut back on staff numbers and increase automated workers like the touchscreen ordering tills.

---

Like I've said in one of the threads about the future of humanity, we are at the awkward valley on the line graph where low-paid jobs are increasingly becoming automated but life is not yet comfortable or seamless enough for everything to be done by robots or automatons. You still need a job and starting at the bottom of the ladder, many people are finding that their types of job are simply ceasing to exist.
 
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I'll add to that, stating my first job was at a Wendy's, and wage aside, was easily the "best" job I've ever had.

When people compare these jobs to something like a warehouse though, I laugh, because warehouses are incredibly boring, and also can be physically exhausting in comparison.

Lastly, at least around central PA (USA), warehouses are generally one of the better paying jobs available to people without, ahem, "special skills". Generally paying 2-3x fast food wages. (And deservedly so I say)
 
Like I've said in one of the threads about the future of humanity, we are at the awkward valley on the line graph where low-paid jobs are increasingly becoming automated but life is not yet comfortable or seamless enough for everything to be done by robots or automatons. You still need a job and starting at the bottom of the ladder, many people are finding that their types of job are simply ceasing to exist.

The higher we raise minimum wage, the harder it is for unexperienced or unskilled workers to compete. Ironically people end up having to drop to unpaid internships to get experience because they can't simply charge less for their time.
 
The higher we raise minimum wage, the harder it is for unexperienced or unskilled workers to compete.

Shower thought: wouldn't increasing the minimum wage at least remove (some) burden of public assistance?

Either way, inflation occurs...but which is preferable or palatable? I know those of us where with a libertarian bent prefer to take burdens and costs off the shoulders of the (big) government they despise in this case.
 
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Shower thought: wouldn't increasing the minimum wage at least remove (some) burden of public assistance?

I don't know. There's so much that you have to control for to figure that out. Does increasing the minimum wage actually raise net pay? Or do people just get laid off or have hours reduced? If it raises net pay (which I doubt), does it raise it enough to get people over the threshold of public assistance?

If you raise minimum wage and people end up using unpaid internships to get experience instead of low-paying jobs, no, it doesn't reduce public assistance.
 
At least in the U.S., unemployment tax is pretty darn low.
I might have paid 40 bucks in UI last year?

Maybe we should be more concerned with the robbery that is Social Security?

SS takes somewhere well over 20 times as much of my money, and I'll be lucky to get half of it back, ever.
 
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