Fighting for the Truth on GTS! (an Honest and Fair Penalization System) Suggestions Please!!!

[Mirror_man]

I know that we al love those shinny new cars, those magnificent new tracks, like those coming on next update (I also do...) but...

I´m sure that many like me... that got into GTS with the intention of using it mostly for Online Racing, would prefer first that this issue of the CRAPPY Penalization System implementions on GTS would somehow be updated/corrected so to bring the real pleasure of and honest and decent way of playing this game online; a thing that through the several updates has become a daily reason for negative experience and increasing frustation!

Once this was corrected than everything would make sense... at least for those of us... like me ... that were reaching to this game for the pleasure and experience of a decent and correct way of racing online!

Very recent examples (videos) like these, are good (bad) examples of what any of you has problably lived or will live... on a regulary base, once racing online ...






So what can we do about it??

Since that the PD engineers and programmers still haven´t go to it, or simply PD thinks that it would be an aditional cost that they are now willing to spend.. (which is strange... since i´m sure they are still getting piles and piles of money with the game..). and is not interested on solving it..., maybe twith the help of the milions of GTS players we could come with good susgestions that PD could try to implement!

And I´m not even speaking about software subroutines, software logic, or Artifical Intelligence Development! Just the simple implementation of ordinary logic and procedures that may lead to people start understanding that bumping into another car in this game will not have any chance of getting away with it without being penalized! Simply that!!!

And with this idea I´m creating this thread where we all could try to come up with real good (or probably only sufficient..) ideas that PD could implement without having to make their Engineers/programmers loose their precious time (and PD´s money) thiking about them...

Some ideas may even come frrm another games with same intention (Online Racing) that we may know, or from Online Racing Groups and Organizations that have and are stablishing internal rules for their tournaments!


So...Maybe PD will look at this Forum, and who knows read this thread too, and risk using some of the ideas here left...

Please guys! Give your best on this!!

A big thanks in advance!

 

[SestoScudo]

Stop and go penalty is that a good suggestion?

I ways believed a stop and go penalty would be great if its implemented right.

 

[Mirror_man]

I would like to give some very easy examples of implementations on the game that would help chang people minds and behaviour oniline!!

1st I would begin for restarting the whole system from scratch, and turning the acessibility to an Online Racing Licence much more difficult, with a reasonable long list of Racing Experiences/Lessons/tests that would create onine racing situations and where the players had to achieve a very low media and acumulated Racing penalizations either by contacts with AI Cars as for abusing the track limits for their gain on time... That stage (pre-racing/license achievment would have to endure for at least a week or so.., with a maximum number of Experiences/tests/lessons anyone could do dailly!

2nd once Achieved that goal then you were allowed to race on a starting rank already grouped according to the resulst you were getting there!

3rd as for the actual used SR and SD) I would consider that it aint so bad.. but the SR values would need a limit probably 10 to 100 times higher. so that with the actual penalizatiosn and wins you get, raising and dropping from the Rank achieved would take more time and races, then a single race. where now you drop for example form SR S to D or lesss, and may rise one or 2 Ranks too...

4th Once you acumulate a certain number of penalties and specially those coming form contacts with other cars, on a certain number of races (ratio of penalization and contacts by race) one should be on 1st time get his Racing License Supended, starting for a whole day, and cumulatively (if the player keeped or even increased the same "bad ratio" values), progressing to several days.. to... weeks... months... and in a ultimate reason... a definitively BAN! That would also cumulate with an IP registration of the PSN profile and not allow anymore any PSN profile playing with that IP to play GTS online... within the Racing License suspension times and BAN, simple as that...

5th On race it should be implemented (as it is on PC2) the rule imposed by the software that if you pass someone using a contact with him or by cutting on the track, then a countdown apears saying that you have to be back to the previous position before the issue happened, or else you will have a direct time penalization to be added at the end of the race (not possible to deduct), that at 1st time, the 2nd you d have to enter pit and serve aditional time, and at third you d get the Black Flag! (disqualification) Acumualted with SR heavy penalization!

I believe that if implementing now, not all of those sugestions, but at least some of them.., would trully bring the correct racing behaviour to Online Racing on GTS!

Revolutionary? A bit.. .but not so much... above all i think its so simple to implement this... that I simply dont know how it has not been done. yet!!!

Stop and go penalty is that a good suggestion?

I ways believed a stop and go penalty would be great if its implemented right.

I also think it should be done... depending of the gravity of the issue (acumulated crashes) and served on pit!!! This is implemented on PC2, by the way and works very welll there!!!!

I hope you see my previous post where I advise 5 different and progressive changes that could /should be made... and you may say what you think of them... tooo!

 

[breeminator]

5th On race it should be implemented (as it is on PC2) the rule imposed by the software that if you pass someone using a contact with him or by cutting on the track, then a countdown apears saying that you have to be back to the previous position before the issue happened, or else you will have a direct time penalization to be added at the end of the race (not possible to deduct), that at 1st time, the 2nd you d have to enter pit and serve aditional time, and at third you d get the Black Flag! (disqualification) Acumualted with SR heavy penalization!

As an example of why this sort of thing isn't easy, there is an obvious exploit of that logic. You have someone legitimately overtaking you, so you bump them as they go past, causing them to be penalised for passing with contact.

 

[Mirror_man]

As an example of why this sort of thing isn't easy, there is an obvious exploit of that logic. You have someone legitimately overtaking you, so you bump them as they go past, causing them to be penalised for passing with contact.

I know that! But that is the last issue on the list.. is nt it???

And you must consider also the penalizations for cutting the track limits, that not only give a limited time for you to drop your speed until the software stops the warning about it, as the way the penaiizations are implemented not only in each race but on the overall, and not forgetting that still there´s a count for contacts with other cars (independently of who´s to blaim), that woud affect the "SR" and the "Ratio of contacts" per race, and once you re over a certain Ratio you may be not only "downgraded" but also suspended temporary from racing!

Adding that to not only the PSNID but also the IP being punished!!!

Not even using or creating another user profile would allow to play GTS online during the punishing!!! And even so.. just having to go for a process that would last at least one week... would most probably be enough for the player to reform his way of driving/playing the game online!

Several of these changes would have to be implemented simultaniously.. to have success.. never just one of them...

 

[Dmac72]

I’m still favouring this approach to rules and penalties. Stick with it, rather a lengthy post but my reasoning is explained.

1. First contact – 5 second penalty added at the end of the race and zero credits, win count addition, victory splash screen or any other reward for the race for all participants involved. It is a very harsh penalty for the innocent party but there is just too much doubt about correct apportioning of blame. This is purely intended to ensure clean, fair racing.

2. Second instance of contact – 10 second penalty added at the end of the race and a warning that any further infringement will lead to disqualification.

3. Third instance – black flagged. (kicked out of the race).

4. All players start at DR E, SR E. After 3 consecutive clean races there is an SR increase to the next level. 3 consecutive races with contact you would drop down 1 SR level.

5. Once up to DR E, SR S you can gain points only in clean races towards a DR increase, which once achieved would be DR D, SR E. You then have to firstly prove you can race cleanly at that level by increasing your SR up to S again, before gaining points towards DR progression can continue.

6. Track limits should be rigidly enforced. Between the white lines is the track, that’s where the race happens. Crossing that line gets you a time penalty without exception. Time penalties get added at the end of the race or in the pits if you happen to take one.


The idea behind this is absolutely to enforce clean racing by employing a system which is essentially a licensing process.

Don’t call it DR E or DR c or DR S+, call it an E license or a C license or an S+ license, which is earned by proving you can race cleanly at that level. It is pretty logical really and the way motorsport actually works.

There will be times where someone gets clipped by 3 different cars and get black flagged through no fault of their own which is rough on them, but with a method like this it would be very unlikely because you could almost eliminate “dirty” drivers as they would not progress from the lower DR/SR ratings.

The cream will still rise to the top.

I personally would probably end up somewhere in the middle enjoying hard, fair racing against players of a similar level.

I gave my views, repeated above, in another thread.

I don’t think tinkering with penalties or SR points will work. Unless you actively disadvantage those who drive in an arcade game manner then for me the game is fundamentally flawed.
Education and enforcement of driving standards. Tiered ratings based on demonstrating you can race cleanly first and then quickly, with progression only possible once both those requirements are met.

 

[sundaydriving]

You cant handle the truth?

Train some kind of ML/AI backend now, with input from GT Sport mode matches and real stewards, to be "ready" for GT7????

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I'll repeat my ideas from another thread here
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ion-of-the-penalty-systems-flaw.388044/page-2

I've given that a lot of thought over time.

The flaws of the SR system are simple to sum up:
A 1 to 99 scale where you can lose or gain 30 SR in a single race can never lead to a stable measurement.
Gaining SR by not actually racing is too easy, either by getting pole in a much slower room or by driving behind everyone.
The difference in SR budget per track car combo (roughly 0.4 SR gain per sector) makes the system even more unstable.
Serving penalties in race creates more accidents.

Solution:
Base SR on nr of incidents per time driven in sport mode, including offs, wall touches and spins.
Get rid of penalties or add them to your time after the finish.

That can still be manipulated by driving behind everyone to get more 'clean' time, but that will kill your DR. Easy poles will happen less often as it will dampen the yoyo effect SR currently goes through and fast reckless drivers will get to race their own kind instead of getting mixed with slower drivers trying to race clean.

For that to work DR needs to be overhauled as well.
One overall DR rank is pretty pointless when experience is vastly different per track.
Resets should not happen as that only messes up matchmaking.
Qualifying has far too much influence on DR with all these short races.
Matchmaking also has too much influence on DR gains and losses.

Instead of the point exchange system:
DR needs to be measured per track, you can be A+ on one track, yet start back at D on a track you have never driven before.
DR needs to reflect actual race pace compared to everyone else, a bit like the K' Speed score on Kudos Prime.

To accomplish this, take the average of your lap times in race minus the outliers (not the slowest usually lap 1, nor your fastest lap) compare that to everyone else in the world (or region) that completed that particular race and do a point exchange between all players, normalized for how many players entered that race in that time slot. That should lead to a much more stable DR ranking. Qualifying high up will still help ensuring better average lap times, yet matchmaking will have less influence on DR. Instead of serving penalties in race, penalties can be deducted from your race time when calculating your average pace.

Matchmaking can also be improved.
Currently it starts by taking all players in 90-99 SR range, sorts them on DR and creates the rooms accordingly. The left over part at the bottom (D/S) gets filled up by the highest DR ranks in the next SR range, 80-89. That's how you get these terribly unmatched A+/S on top, rest D/S rooms. Any players that needed to be added from a lower SR rank to fill up the slowest room in an SR bracket, need to be sorted with all the players in that bracket so the A+/S in 80-89 range enters the room with A+/S in the 90-99 SR range instead of racing D/S 90-99 SR players.

Lastly, instead of punishments, rewards for clean driving.
Higher SR rank should mean higher payouts.
Percentage multiplier for every clean lap.
Percentage multiplier for consecutive clean races.

 

[Pigems]

If the real life stewards at the live World Tour events(that are controlled by PD) can’t get the penalties/system right, I don’t have much hope for a computer system programmed by PD to ever get it right either unfortunately.

 

[DelboyD]

I know that we al love those shinny new cars, those magnificent new tracks, like those coming on next update (I also do...) but...

I´m sure that many like me... that got into GTS with the intention of using it mostly for Online Racing, would prefer first that this issue of the CRAPPY Penalization System implementions on GTS would somehow be updated/corrected so to bring the real pleasure of and honest and decent way of playing this game online; a thing that through the several updates has become a daily reason for negative experience and increasing frustation!

Once this was corrected than everything would make sense... at least for those of us... like me ... that were reaching to this game for the pleasure and experience of a decent and correct way of racing online!

Very recent examples (videos) like these, are good (bad) examples of what any of you has problably lived or will live... on a regulary base, once racing online ...






So what can we do about it??

Since that the PD engineers and programmers still haven´t go to it, or simply PD thinks that it would be an aditional cost that they are now willing to spend.. (which is strange... since i´m sure they are still getting piles and piles of money with the game..). and is not interested on solving it..., maybe twith the help of the milions of GTS players we could come with good susgestions that PD could try to implement!

And I´m not even speaking about software subroutines, software logic, or Artifical Intelligence Development! Just the simple implementation of ordinary logic and procedures that may lead to people start understanding that bumping into another car in this game will not have any chance of getting away with it without being penalized! Simply that!!!

And with this idea I´m creating this thread where we all could try to come up with real good (or probably only sufficient..) ideas that PD could implement without having to make their Engineers/programmers loose their precious time (and PD´s money) thiking about them...

Some ideas may even come frrm another games with same intention (Online Racing) that we may know, or from Online Racing Groups and Organizations that have and are stablishing internal rules for their tournaments!


So...Maybe PD will look at this Forum, and who knows read this thread too, and risk using some of the ideas here left...

Please guys! Give your best on this!!

A big thanks in advance!

Thanks for posting the vids and putting your opinion on this in writing.

Seeing drivers actively giving other drivers a penalty intentionally (even just as testing examples) really shows how broken the system is.

I hardly race online due to my frustrations with the penalty system. I hot lap and use Kscore to see where I rank against other drivers. But really that’s me only using half of sport mode.

Racing the AI is way too easy once you have tried sport mode and I just do that to earn money or if I fancy a break from hot lapping (I call it Sunday driving).

 

[Dmac72]

I'll repeat my ideas from another thread here
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ion-of-the-penalty-systems-flaw.388044/page-2

I've given that a lot of thought over time.

The flaws of the SR system are simple to sum up:
A 1 to 99 scale where you can lose or gain 30 SR in a single race can never lead to a stable measurement.
Gaining SR by not actually racing is too easy, either by getting pole in a much slower room or by driving behind everyone.
The difference in SR budget per track car combo (roughly 0.4 SR gain per sector) makes the system even more unstable.
Serving penalties in race creates more accidents.

Solution:
Base SR on nr of incidents per time driven in sport mode, including offs, wall touches and spins.
Get rid of penalties or add them to your time after the finish.

That can still be manipulated by driving behind everyone to get more 'clean' time, but that will kill your DR. Easy poles will happen less often as it will dampen the yoyo effect SR currently goes through and fast reckless drivers will get to race their own kind instead of getting mixed with slower drivers trying to race clean.

For that to work DR needs to be overhauled as well.
One overall DR rank is pretty pointless when experience is vastly different per track.
Resets should not happen as that only messes up matchmaking.
Qualifying has far too much influence on DR with all these short races.
Matchmaking also has too much influence on DR gains and losses.

Instead of the point exchange system:
DR needs to be measured per track, you can be A+ on one track, yet start back at D on a track you have never driven before.
DR needs to reflect actual race pace compared to everyone else, a bit like the K' Speed score on Kudos Prime.

To accomplish this, take the average of your lap times in race minus the outliers (not the slowest usually lap 1, nor your fastest lap) compare that to everyone else in the world (or region) that completed that particular race and do a point exchange between all players, normalized for how many players entered that race in that time slot. That should lead to a much more stable DR ranking. Qualifying high up will still help ensuring better average lap times, yet matchmaking will have less influence on DR. Instead of serving penalties in race, penalties can be deducted from your race time when calculating your average pace.

Matchmaking can also be improved.
Currently it starts by taking all players in 90-99 SR range, sorts them on DR and creates the rooms accordingly. The left over part at the bottom (D/S) gets filled up by the highest DR ranks in the next SR range, 80-89. That's how you get these terribly unmatched A+/S on top, rest D/S rooms. Any players that needed to be added from a lower SR rank to fill up the slowest room in an SR bracket, need to be sorted with all the players in that bracket so the A+/S in 80-89 range enters the room with A+/S in the 90-99 SR range instead of racing D/S 90-99 SR players.

Lastly, instead of punishments, rewards for clean driving.
Higher SR rank should mean higher payouts.
Percentage multiplier for every clean lap.
Percentage multiplier for consecutive clean races.

How does this work for those who play for 2 hours per month as opposed to those who play 4 hours per day?
More game time does not necessarily mean faster/cleaner/better. It only means more time playing.

 

[sturk0167]

I've got an idea. How about a reverse damage penalty? If you knock someone into a wall, your car gets the damage that would've happened in the wall collision. I'm sure nobody would take advantage of that.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

If the real life stewards at the live World Tour events(that are controlled by PD) can’t get the penalties/system right, I don’t have much hope for a computer system programmed by PD to ever get it right either unfortunately.

Watching the discussions at the World Tour, it was astonishing to see how poorly some of the commentators understood corner rights. Rubbing is not racing and it's only awesome to ignore corner rights and dive bomb when you can do it without hitting someone, thus not making it a dive bomb. A failed late brake pass on the inside is a pure penalty not a failed brilliant pass.

So it's no surprise that PD hasn't even begun to address dive bombing. I don't even know if they know that it's against the rules.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I've got an idea. How about a reverse damage penalty? If you knock someone into a wall, your car gets the damage that would've happened in the wall collision. I'm sure nobody would take advantage of that.

Should be like Driver: San Francisco, when you punt someone off road, you swap cars with them

How does this work for those who play for 2 hours per month as opposed to those who play 4 hours per day?
More game time does not necessarily mean faster/cleaner/better. It only means more time playing.

I'm not sure I understand the question. More game time does mean faster/cleaner/better, more knowledge of the track, how to avoid, how to safely pass or be passed. If you only play 2 hours a month, how would you stack up to someone that knows the track inside out?

In my proposal, yep it will take them longer to climb up to SR.S or whatever you would call it, assuming you start with a baseline number of incidents and by driving clean you slowly lower your incident rate. Same for DR, you start at D on a new track, you climb up by maintaining good pace, then start at D again on the next track.

Currently what happens is you start at E/B, can reach E/S before you can even gain DR, either by driving carefully behind everyone for a few races or simply by outpacing the D/B drivers you get matched with at first. Then gain DR on one track and can enter next month as B/S or A/S on a track you've never driven before.

Perhaps sport mode should show experience level per track next to a player's name, so at least you can be aware that they might brake in odd places. Pros can race rookies in RL as well, but at least they're told beforehand they're racing rookies!

Another thing you can do is require to complete the track experience for a track before you can enter sport mode for that track. Depending on your pace in the track experience you start with a baseline DR score for that track.

 

[Dmac72]

Should be like Driver: San Francisco, when you punt someone off road, you swap cars with them




I'm not sure I understand the question. More game time does mean faster/cleaner/better, more knowledge of the track, how to avoid, how to safely pass or be passed. If you only play 2 hours a month, how would you stack up to someone that knows the track inside out?

In my proposal, yep it will take them longer to climb up to SR.S or whatever you would call it, assuming you start with a baseline number of incidents and by driving clean you slowly lower your incident rate. Same for DR, you start at D on a new track, you climb up by maintaining good pace, then start at D again on the next track.

Currently what happens is you start at E/B, can reach E/S before you can even gain DR, either by driving carefully behind everyone for a few races or simply by outpacing the D/B drivers you get matched with at first. Then gain DR on one track and can enter next month as B/S or A/S on a track you've never driven before.

Perhaps sport mode should show experience level per track next to a player's name, so at least you can be aware that they might brake in odd places. Pros can race rookies in RL as well, but at least they're told beforehand they're racing rookies!

Another thing you can do is require to complete the track experience for a track before you can enter sport mode for that track. Depending on your pace in the track experience you start with a baseline DR score for that track.

More game time may well mean faster but not necessarily cleaner and without that are they “better”?
There are many I have encountered online who’s pace would suggest they have clocked up the hours but who’s racecraft would lead me to believe the couldn’t cleanly overtake a cyclist on a 3 lane highway.
I just think ability should be the only differentiator regardless of time played.
I’ll still be in the midfield trying to catch up either way.

 

[Brzlav]

1st I would begin for restarting the whole system from scratch, and turning the acessibility to an Online Racing Licence much more difficult, with a reasonable long list of Racing Experiences/Lessons/tests that would create onine racing situations and where the players had to achieve a very low media and acumulated Racing penalizations either by contacts with AI Cars as for abusing the track limits for their gain on time... That stage (pre-racing/license achievment would have to endure for at least a week or so.., with a maximum number of Experiences/tests/lessons anyone could do dailly!

Wrong game for that. GT are games that want to appeal to a large crowd. Go play iRacing if you want that. PD won't reduce its playerbase by implementing something like that (and, given what they want GT to be, they are right to do so).

3rd as for the actual used SR and SD) I would consider that it aint so bad.. but the SR values would need a limit probably 10 to 100 times higher. so that with the actual penalizatiosn and wins you get, raising and dropping from the Rank achieved would take more time and races, then a single race. where now you drop for example form SR S to D or lesss, and may rise one or 2 Ranks too...

It's ok if it takes longer to raise your rating, but if it also drops slower, people will exploit it.

4th Once you acumulate a certain number of penalties and specially those coming form contacts with other cars, on a certain number of races (ratio of penalization and contacts by race) one should be on 1st time get his Racing License Supended, starting for a whole day, and cumulatively (if the player keeped or even increased the same "bad ratio" values), progressing to several days..

Epic whining incoming as everyone tends to think that their racecraft is above average (just human way of thinking) and people will feel they have been treated unfairly.

5th On race it should be implemented (as it is on PC2) the rule imposed by the software that if you pass someone using a contact with him or by cutting on the track, then a countdown apears saying that you have to be back to the previous position before the issue happened

Epic whining incoming as everyone tends to think that their racecraft is above average (just human way of thinking) and people will feel they have been treated unfairly.

Instead of the point exchange system:
DR needs to be measured per track, you can be A+ on one track, yet start back at D on a track you have never driven before.
DR needs to reflect actual race pace compared to everyone else, a bit like the K' Speed score on Kudos Prime.

Very good idea imo.

Higher SR rank should mean higher payouts.
Percentage multiplier for every clean lap.
Percentage multiplier for consecutive clean races.

All good ideas imo.

 

[George Jakob]

those shinny new cars, those magnificent new tracks,

Weird didn't you call them "crap" a faw days ago?.

which is strange... since i´m sure they are still getting piles and piles of money with the game..).

You don't know that and speaking with no evidence makes your points weaker but anyway moving on.

1st I would begin for restarting the whole system from scratch, and turning the acessibility to an Online Racing Licence much more difficult, with a reasonable long list of Racing Experiences/Lessons/tests that would create onine racing situations and where the players had to achieve a very low media and acumulated Racing penalizations either by contacts with AI Cars as for abusing the track limits for their gain on time... That stage (pre-racing/license achievment would have to endure for at least a week or so.., with a maximum number of Experiences/tests/lessons anyone could do dailly!

So Kinda like the "Evaluation Test" in the older F1 Games , i get what are you trying to do with this but most people don't have the time / don't want to be bothered with this stuff daily so whille this whille result in many bad players gone many decent players will stop playing as well.

2nd once Achieved that goal then you were allowed to race on a starting rank already grouped according to the resulst you were getting there!

👍

3rd as for the actual used SR and SD) I would consider that it aint so bad.. but the SR values would need a limit probably 10 to 100 times higher. so that with the actual penalizatiosn and wins you get, raising and dropping from the Rank achieved would take more time and races, then a single race. where now you drop for example form SR S to D or lesss, and may rise one or 2 Ranks too...

I think the limits are fine the only thing that needs to change is how fast/much the SR drops accordingly to how fast it goes up.

4th Once you acumulate a certain number of penalties and specially those coming form contacts with other cars, on a certain number of races (ratio of penalization and contacts by race) one should be on 1st time get his Racing License Supended, starting for a whole day, and cumulatively (if the player keeped or even increased the same "bad ratio" values), progressing to several days.. to... weeks... months... and in a ultimate reason... a definitively BAN! That would also cumulate with an IP registration of the PSN profile and not allow anymore any PSN profile playing with that IP to play GTS online... within the Racing License suspension times and BAN, simple as that...

Wow Wow wait a minute i have a very important question does this rule only apply for Sport mode or online in general? (Lobby's etc) because if its for online entirely the game will lose the entire playerbase! , also i beliave forcing people to register thair IP is ilegal.

5th On race it should be implemented (as it is on PC2) the rule imposed by the software that if you pass someone using a contact with him or by cutting on the track, then a countdown apears saying that you have to be back to the previous position before the issue happened, or else you will have a direct time penalization to be added at the end of the race (not possible to deduct), that at 1st time, the 2nd you d have to enter pit and serve aditional time, and at third you d get the Black Flag! (disqualification) Acumualted with SR heavy penalization!

Decent idea with many exploits tho.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

More game time may well mean faster but not necessarily cleaner and without that are they “better”?
There are many I have encountered online who’s pace would suggest they have clocked up the hours but who’s racecraft would lead me to believe the couldn’t cleanly overtake a cyclist on a 3 lane highway.
I just think ability should be the only differentiator regardless of time played.
I’ll still be in the midfield trying to catch up either way.

And that's how it will be when you adjust DR on race pace per track compared to everyone else. There is no way to grind your way to high DR on one particular combo at favorable times of day or with low SR to artificially boost your DR. Each track will have it's own stable DR, unaffected by matchmaking.

Same for SR, it will take longer to raise SR but if you keep getting involved in incidents, keep crashing or make bad passes you will also be stuck with lower SR for longer depending on what time driven period will be used to statistically determine your safety rating.

Ability will be the only differentiator. More time played only gives you better knowledge of the track, where to pass and where to look out for other players making bad passes. Currently more time played means better understanding of the SR and penalty system and how to exploit it... :/

 

[8l23ub]

The penalty system has a tough job, But if it gets the basics wrong . .



What algorithm judges the SLS as innocent?

 

[I_Leak_Oil]

Ok.

This is totally open for abuse, but what if after an incident you were given the option to take responsibility for a mistake?

Both drivers get a yes/no question to answer whilst carrying on the race which would contribute to the decision process.

I think if I completely hit someone off the track I would take the blame and remove the chance of them getting the penalty?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Ok.

This is totally open for abuse, but what if after an incident you were given the option to take responsibility for a mistake?

Both drivers get a yes/no question to answer whilst carrying on the race which would contribute to the decision process.

I think if I completely hit someone off the track I would take the blame and remove the chance of them getting the penalty?

Some people already take the blame and give the position back when they make a mistake or wait for the other car to recover. In this case the game needs to recognize that neither need a time penalty and a simple SR Down for the one making the mistake is enough. Certainly not give a time penalty to the the car that's waited for.

But indeed, an oopsie my fault button would help, or rather a forgive button. If both drivers press it, no charges at all. If only you press it, you still get the time penalty but no SR loss. (or reduced)

 

[Mirror_man]

I've got an idea. How about a reverse damage penalty? If you knock someone into a wall, your car gets the damage that would've happened in the wall collision. I'm sure nobody would take advantage of that.

But then you may fist give a little touch on a guy and send your self against the wall right away.. and the other guy would take that crunking smash.. while you d get theirs "kinda touch" ... No??.

 

[Dorofint]

The penalty system has a tough job, But if it gets the basics wrong . .



What algorithm judges the SLS as innocent?

The SLS was with all wheels in the grass the Ferrari was only with 2 wheels in the grass. It's that easy for GTS. This is a good example because it shows how primitive the algorithms are. It does not take into account that the SLS was way too fast. It is not considered that the SLS was already in the grass before the contact. It does not take into account dozens of parameters that are present in the game. Without parameters, such as the movements of the cars in x, y, or z direction could not work the physics. The parameters are available but the penalty system does not use them. The penalty system was already flawed from the start. But it has been further and further simplified until we come to this broken and manipulable disaster. I would be interested to know what the reasons are. Is it incompetence with PD or was it the pressure from Sony or the factions of the casual and arcade racer?

 

[Mirror_man]

The SLS was with all wheels in the grass the Ferrari was only with 2 wheels in the grass. It's that easy for GTS. This is a good example because it shows how primitive the algorithms are. It does not take into account that the SLS was way too fast. It is not considered that the SLS was already in the grass before the contact. It does not take into account dozens of parameters that are present in the game. Without parameters, such as the movements of the cars in x, y, or z direction could not work the physics. The parameters are available but the penalty system does not use them. The penalty system was already flawed from the start. But it has been further and further simplified until we come to this broken and manipulable disaster. I would be interested to know what the reasons are. Is it incompetence with PD or was it the pressure from Sony or the factions of the casual and arcade racer?

Thats a bit a stupid reason (the last one you ve mentioned)!!! To have that you just needed PD to create and aditional ARCADE/SPORT Mode where you simply are allowed to bust anybody whenever you want... with no penalization... An Everything Goes Online RAcing Mode! And the can even create Esports Events for it... (for me not to look at them... ever...)... Sometimes this kind of race is organized on Private Lobbyes for those who love it...

 

[dabz343]

PD should add a Campaign Mode section dedicated to learning about penalties. Put it under Driving School or independent, doesn't matter, but show drivers the most likely scenarios for penalties and allow them to learn the proper technique to succeed.

Simple example, put together a 6 car grid at Monza where you are P3. The goal is to make it through T1 & T2 without contact/penalties. Another example--side-by-side driving at Suzuka. Make it all the way around using only half of the track with an AI car besides you to earn a difficult trophy.

I believe penalties tend to result mainly because of driver error verses bad intentions...so why not also try to show drivers how to avoid altercations instead of just working out who is to blame?

 

[ARTAsean]

The penalty system has a tough job, But if it gets the basics wrong . .



What algorithm judges the SLS as innocent?

This is unbelievable.

 

[Mirror_man]

PD should add a Campaign Mode section dedicated to learning about penalties. Put it under Driving School or independent, doesn't matter, but show drivers the most likely scenarios for penalties and allow them to learn the proper technique to succeed.

Simple example, put together a 6 car grid at Monza where you are P3. The goal is to make it through T1 & T2 without contact/penalties. Another example--side-by-side driving at Suzuka. Make it all the way around using only half of the track with an AI car besides you to earn a difficult trophy.

I believe penalties tend to result mainly because of driver error verses bad intentions...so why not also try to show drivers how to avoid altercations instead of just working out who is to blame?

Should not be just a Simple Campaign Mode... but an obligatory one for every racer to be allowed on Sport Mode! And the aditional prize should be not one but two of the top Racing Cars of the Game!

Also... if the player would exceed a certain number of sucessive cumulated negative penalization.. .he should have to do it all again... without bonus cars.. .

 

[cleanLX]

This is unbelievable.

Indeed...

Merc is all the way off track when contact occurs, Ferrari is still on track (2 wheels over the white line) and yet the Ferrari gets a 5 second penalty.

 

[8l23ub]

I came across one of my pet peeves over the weekend at Interlagos, a guy serving a 5 second penalty on the racing line, instead of ranging at him after the race I decided to watch the replay to see his transgression. He'd qualified third and had a good start to the race;



His aggression levels were sky high after that, the penalty system ruined his race.

 

[breeminator]

I came across one of my pet peeves over the weekend at Interlagos, a guy serving a 5 second penalty on the racing line, instead of ranging at him after the race I decided to watch the replay to see his transgression. He'd qualified third and had a good start to the race;



His aggression levels were sky high after that, the penalty system ruined his race.

So did car 2 bump car 1 and then drive off track to try to give car 1 a penalty? That's really the source of the situation. After that, if you smash into an out of control car, that's going to ruin your race in real life as well.