First Car Advice...Need Help!

[Paddy05HDT]

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[eight6er]

Wow nice selection for your first car! I love all those cars myself, besides the z32. If the sound is the only thing you don't like about the SR20 change the exhaust manifold, I did and I love the sound it makes now. I've owned a few 180sx (all turbo) and had nothing but good experience with them, never had a serious problem really and I would highly recommend them.

I won't really comment much on the other cars because I haven't owned them, my friend had a 300zx TT and it's a big car heavy on juice, he now has a 200sx which he is much happier with. Totally agree with you about the TA22 always loved the look of them.

Edit: Nothing wrong with FF, my first two cars were and I had great fun with them.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm guessing, since you've mentioned a legal requirement that it can't be a turbocharged car, that you're in Australia?

I don't know what insurance rates are like out there but in the UK, any of those cars would be nigh-on insurable for a new driver. Things might be different in Oz.

You also seem to have a hell of a lot of preconceptions about certain cars, given that you've presumably not driven any of them yet. This is a first car - whatever car you get it'll be cool, as it'll give you ultimate freedom to go where you want. Don't hold ridiculous grudges against little things about certain cars (FWD, for instance. Or whether something is a "chick car". Or the sound of an SR20... or certainly not the ability to drop in a different engine in future).

Or the obsession with power you seem to have. It's a first car. If it's quicker than getting around by bicycle or having to go everywhere with your mum, it's powerful enough. And most things will be quick enough to die in if you don't drive them properly.

Lastly, it's no use asking us if things like tyre wear or fuel economy are going to be a big issue. That's for you to decide. Can you afford to run something that guzzles fuel on a low-paid job - if you have a job at all?

It's great having ambitions, but judging by your criteria so far I'd advise doing a little more research into what you can realistically afford to run.

Put it this way - before I bought my first car eight years ago, I wanted to get a Porsche 924. I could afford the car itself - they were hardly expensive back then, even cheaper these days. But could I have afforded 25mpg, or insurance at three times the cost, or the price of parts? Err... nope. So I bought a Fiesta. And do you know what? It was still great, because it was still a car, and it was mine.

 

[SpartanG]

Do you have driving experience under your belt? If not then stick to a lower powered car. Learning on something powerful like that is never a good idea, and since you're buying a performance car I have a feeling you plan to hoon... Inexperience, power, fast driving, and FR = crash. And if it's raining, you can cut thosee down to inexperience and FR.

But if you have a year or two of experience I'd say you can handle these cars. But just remember, power isn't everything. A car can have a very weak powerplant but still be a blast to drive. I'd argue that a lower powered car can be more fun, because you can really wind it out and put the pedal to the metal without really endangering yourself or others.

And trust me, most sport tuned FF cars have pretty high limits of adhesion before understeer steps in. Just look at the Integra GSR/Type R or the Civic type R. There are just as many advanced driving techniques that can be learned in an FF car as an FR car.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Oh yeah, the car will have to be NA due to law, however I'm happy to hear from people who have owned turbo variants. Also, I will only be buying a manual....no automatics here

P-plates by any chance? Also I've had more than a few looks at all of these cars as I was considering them before I picked up my Accord.

Nissan 300ZX (Z32): There's not one thing I can say that I dislike about this car, and it ticks all the boxes. The only three things that worry me about it are the weight, tire wear, and fuel economy. Are these things a big issue?

This was high on my list, and I test drove both versions. Twin-turbo versions really shift, while the atmo models feel "adequate" compared to some of the GT cars it's classed with; however it doesn't exactly feel underpowered either. Consumables aren't the big issue with the 300ZX, it's the massive engine in a tiny body. Maintenance, unless you DIY, will more than likely cost more because the engine makes things hard to get to (ie. more labour). Still, in typical Nissan fashion mechanicals are pretty sturdy bits of kit. HICAS 4WS, VG30DE with 222hp/166kW and 198lb-ft/268Nm of torque. Reason why I didn't pick either up? Reason one was insurance on the twin-turbo model (about $1900 a year for me with Just Car Insurance who specialise with imported/modified cars and younger drivers; and at the time I was on P2s and was 17) and reason two was that the non-turbo one that was around hadn't been given a lot of care.

Toyota Celica TA22: One of the best looking Japanese cars of all time in my opinion. Absolutely adore these cars. Although, being an early 70's car, there will undoubtedly be issues with the general condition of the car, and it will be quite underpowered. The main positives with this car are the amazingly good looks, and the size of the engine bay. The engine bay is enormous, so it would be awesome to keep and perhaps fit a 2J in the future; or even go small and put in a 13B rotary

Agree on the looks; when modified right they look absolutely sublime, however general consensus on models I looked at was rust. The two popular motors to put in one of these are the 4AGE and of course the SR20DET (but every man and his dog's done that one to their car at some stage...). 2JZ can be done and a 13B has been done several times, though I believe it needs a lot of dough to go the rotary path.

Toyota Celica '90-'98 (I think the models go from ST184-ST204): love the styling of these cars, especially the early nineties series' that feature the popup headlights. Although these cars have many positives (price being one of them), I'm unsure as to whether or not they will be underpowered? And also, they are a known 'chick car' so I'm not sure if it would be the best idea... That last bit doesn't phase me much, but it lingers in the back of my mind. Lastly, its drivetrain. I'm NOT a fan of FF drivetrains... But is it really so bad?

These were very high on my list when I was picking a ride to replace my venerable Skyline. Cheap coupés but for some reason the fact that the ST184 and ST204 ran a Camry engine was sorta disheartening. If I was to pick up a Celica it would be logical to go for the youngest and highest trim level, which in this case would be the ST204 ZR. They're all very reliable anyway, but the ZR has the most kit and the ST204 has a bit more much needed poke over the ST184.

As for the front-wheel-drive layout, it's not bad at all. I daily drive one and while understeer is of course a very apparent factor with "VTEC Yo!," she does cling on alright for a four-door econobox. Very predictable and easy to manage. A little coupé like the Celica would be great for learning how to drive quickly...not that I condone that with this being your first car but just putting the thought out there That also being said, have you considered a Honda Prelude? You can get a decent 4th Gen Si or even a VTi-R for the same sort of price as a Celica.

Nissan 180SX: The styling of this car wins me over every time. Even though it irritates me greatly that it has an SR20, I cant go past those sleek lines. Never really heard anything bad about these cars. The chassis is well known for being a good design, and as much as I hate them, SR20's seem to be ok in terms of reliability. The issue with this car is that the non turbo SR20 is painfully powerless, and coupled with that hideous engine note, and hefty price tag, I'm not sure if its worth considering the 180?

My concern with an S13 isn't its power or its price...it's that it's extremely hard to find one that hasn't been flogged. Or one that doesn't have a snail on it for that matter. Great looks and it's a well proven chassis but they're generally boy-racer cars and unfortunately the majority of them are treated like crap.

 

[hawkeye122]

Have you looked at all into getting some sort of hatchback or saloon? Sure, it's neat to have a car, but I wish mine had 4 doors, So I could haul all of my mates around. It's one thing to be able to drive, it's another to drive WITH people whom you associate with.

Naturally, if all of your friends drive its no worries, but still... Is there a girl in the year below you're interested in? If you can take her AND her friends to lunch, it'll be much cooler.

Also, if you've got to carry around some sort of large project or item, the size of a Hatch could be really beneficial. My mate has a Ford Focus ZX3 that he's done minor engine tunes, put new wheels, Ford Racing suspension, and a better clutch and flywheel, and he can pretty much own the lot of us. And in the end, he could still sleep in the back, carry around all of his equipment for Marching Band, and a load of inconveniently-sized presents. Sure, just looking at a Focus it seems pretty lame, but his really is stunning. And the insurance isn't killer I'm told either.

Another one of my mates has a Supra with a 2j in it. He loves it, but he finds himself pouring a lot of money into it. I'm not sure if it's for repairs or what. He has told me that it burns through oil and fuel quite quickly though.

The fact is, it's your first car. No one should care about your first car because all of your friends know its just what Mum and Dad will let you have, and what you can afford for insurance. Is it nice to be cool? Sure. But it's nice to have a car AND still have money left over to go out on the town with your mates.

When I was thinking about my first car, I wanted a 3 Series BMW. But the parts, insurance, and fuel cost would have eaten me alive. Hence I spent remarkably little money on a Geo Tracker which gets me around quite nicely.

 

[ampire]

300zx is a terrible car to work on. The engine bay is very cramped. The VG engine is not as nice as the later VQ series. The N/A version of the Z is a real pig.

Get a front wheel drive car like a civic with a manual transmission and save your money for something good when you are more experienced driving and working on cars. This is coming from someone who had a Porsche 924 as a first car.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

The only one from that list that I'd touch would be the TA22... But I also wouldn't even think of driving a TA22 every day, nor would I make it anyone's first car.

Too rare, too heartbreaking if something happens to it.

You don't want a car you want as your first car. Everyone I've known to do so has had nasty things of some sort happen to them.

 

[Zenith]

Can you get a TA22 at an affordable cost?

Don't take these lectures personally We're just trying to help you avoid the pitfalls that we see people in your position make and the ones we fell into ourselves.

For instance (and I still do this), don't get too obsessed with "future plans" for a car. Working on a car is a serious time commitment for even what seem like minors jobs. This wouldn't be such an issue if you didn't have school and a social life. You won't be doing a 2J swap any time soon.

A note on power: 200hp is plenty for street use. Speed limits are simply too low for you to really get enjoyment out of anything more. If you seriously plan to track the car, then 200hp is all you need until you learn to drive.

 

[Biggles1961]

Without knowing your driving and mechanical experience,and your budget,this is difficult to answer. If you're young and a new driver, I'd suggest getting a simple,cheap and reliable car as your first car.Factor in insurance and running costs.Have you done any engine work ?? Do you have tools and a place to do the work ?? Do you have the funds ?? Engine changes can get expensive and time consuming very quicky.

 

[ampire]

Easiest car I've worked on and also one of the fastest, least attention getting, and most reliable for the money was a 4th Gen (95-99) Nissan Maxima with a 5 speed. I suggest one of these as a first car. Front wheel drive is not as bad as people make it out to be on the internet. I learned almost everything I know about cars from working on it.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

First car should be a beater instead of classics you're looking at. An old RWD Volvo will do fine, they're cheap, cheap to fix and run and in slippery conditions they're plenty of fun. The engine bay is big enough for later conversions should you have such aspirations, and interior has enough space for you to haul quite an impressive amount of stuff.

 

[Paddy05HDT]

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[Murcie_LP640]

300ZX or a Prelude VTi-R are the two that I would choose from.

The 180SX would be good if they weren't all molested all the time, and I can tell you now that it's going to be very, very hard to find one that hasn't been, and the ST184/204 Celica, even by first car standards is a bit sluggish. Good chassis, fun little things to drive, but they don't have a lot of poke. The TA22 is a very nice car when they're well restored but, and I'm assuming your budget is little here, you won't be able to find one that's well restored for a small amount of cash.

The 300ZX is plenty powerful enough, has a good amount of kit on it, and they have a bit of cool factor to them as well. The Prelude is much the same except it's front-wheel-drive. The VTi-R has the H22A which, I believe a few can attest to here as being one of Honda's better VTEC motors for the small amount of money you pay for the car; in 4th Gen. Preludes you're looking at 142kW (H22A1), 143kW in 5th Gen. (H22A4); if you want to mod it down the track performance parts are inexpensive for it, and it handles pretty nice too. The other alternative if you don't care much for features is an Integra VTi-R which is a bit quicker than the Prelude because it has less weight to it. The Prelude however has more kit.

I understand its an amateur mistake to assume that power is easy to handle, but honestly, these cars really arent quick. The car with the highest power output is the Z32 which has 166kw (222bhp) and that is a reasonable amount, but coupled with 1500+kg its not such a quick car.

The other three may be slow but the 300ZX certainly isn't, or at least back in its day. The non-turbo models can do 0-100 in 7secs flat which is actually quite quick considering its weight. About the same as a manual AU Falcon XR8 with ~20 more kW and ~150 more Nm of torque and the same sort of mass. Twin-turbo models do it in 5.5 or lower which is pretty near what the 350Z used to do it in with the big 3.5L V6.

 

[homeforsummer]

I don't want to attack anyone, but the thing is, I dont need to hear about insurance, or time, or too much power, because I've heard it all before so many times and its just beginning to annoy me.

So can you afford to insure, run and fuel them all? Because unless you're absolutely sure you can, then the discussion is going nowhere anyway.

You're entirely welcome to buy a powerful car, thrash it and crash it as far as I'm concerned - that's all your own decision. But it's no use creating a thread and asking things like:

I'm NOT a fan of FF drivetrains... But is it really so bad?

And

The only three things that worry me about it are the weight, tire wear, and fuel economy. Are these things a big issue?

...if you're not bothered about the responses. Many people like FWD, so no, it isn't so bad, and since you've presumably never driven a car anyway, will you really care?

I asked you a question: Is fuel economy an issue? We can't tell you "yes" or "no" if we don't know if you've really considered your budget, because there are two potential answers.

- If you don't have much money, then fuel economy probably is an issue.
- If you've budgeted for high insurance costs and gas-guzzling engines, then fuel economy probably isn't an issue.

See what I'm getting at?

And a helpful note: You're asking a question on an open forum. Try and consider it all helpful advice, because you're asking people who've been driving most of the time you've been alive.

 

[Paddy05HDT]

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[Sureboss]

All these cost factors and no one has asked if you've factored in paying for your own funeral and tombstone? For shame GTP, you are slacking.

Say hi to Madge and Harold for me, Bruce.

 

[Azuremen]

homeforsummer, I really want to punch you in the face. Your points are all meaningless. Yes, I have enough money to pay for the other expenses, what kind of question is that?! You think I'm just gonna buy the car and then completely forget about things like insurance, rego, tires, fuel etc?

Considering how often kids do just this, yes. And really, you must be quite daft to want to punch someone in the face that is asking entirely valid questions.

Lastly, you're assuming I haven't driven before.....wtf. I have no idea how one comes to that conclusion from this, but anyway. I have driven a reasonable amount of hours, if that helps you -_-

Probably because you are getting a car for the first time, and likely your license. Very reasonable to assume you've not driven. And now you claim "reasonable" hours, which means less than 50 I'd guess, which is, honestly, nothing.

Oh yeah, also, about driver experience. To me that means nothing. You may have been on the road 30 years and still be a **** driver. Just saying you've been on the road for a long time is nothing to fall back on. If you've had experiences where a certain amount of driver skill is required, then yeah, ok, I respect that you know what you're doing, but purely saying you've been around for a while means close to nothing.

HFS is an automotive jouranlist. Many people in here have track time, including myself. Several people do drifting here, and then you have the long list of people that just enjoy twisty roads.

Compared to your "reasonable number" of hours, most people here actually know what they are talking about. You on the other hand, have next to zero experience and probably one of the worst attitudes I've seen for some time.

222HP in a 1500kg car is more than enough for a teenager to get into plenty of trouble. If you honestly think that isn't enough for a quick car, you really have no idea what you're talking about. With your "hey guys, I know what I'm talking about even though its clear I really have no idea besides what I've read in some magazines and learned in GT" attitude, you'd probably put into a curb in a month.

Talking about putting a 2JZ in a TA22? Oh my. Your best bet would probably be a 3T swap, but even then, its clear you don't get what they chassis is like or anything. Putting a rotary in there is even more laughable due to the fabrication required and the fact you'd be getting less power than a 3T and worse economy.

The NA SR20DE isn't painfully powerless, and again would be more than enough in the S13 or S14 chassis for you to get into trouble.

Seriously, listen to the people that know more than you.

 

[Famine]

Paddy will be back in two days, when he has learned how to be civil to people.

 

[Tornado]

Yes, I have enough money to pay for the other expenses, what kind of question is that?! You think I'm just gonna buy the car and then completely forget about things like insurance, rego, tires, fuel etc? Wow.

It's funny, because I know several people in high school who did exactly that.

 

[Kylehnat]

homeforsummer, I really want to punch you in the face. Your points are all meaningless.
...
but purely saying you've been around for a while means close to nothing.

Listen, these threads pop up all the time. Some 15-year-old posts a choice of 3 or 4 cars which would BE SO AWESOME AS A FIRST CAR LOLZ!!!! Admittedly, most of them post cars which are far more ludicrous than what you are looking at, but the end result is the same--us old-hat, party poopers come in and offer 50 valid reasons as to why you shouldn't do that. This advice is usually greeted with a graceful "🤬 you" from the OP.

It takes a fool to ignore free advice. It takes a massive idiot to tell someone to thump sand when they offer it. Owning a car is not as idyllic as it seems to a teenager who's never had one, nor is it as wallet-friendly.

You don't want a car you want as your first car. Everyone I've known to do so has had nasty things of some sort happen to them.

This. And the nasty things are usually caused by inexperience or sheer stupidity. We've all seen it.

You are of course free to do whatever the hell you want, but don't act like you've got it all figured out, because you don't. Oh, and get the 300ZX, because that's the only car I like out of those four. Then, when you write that one off, listen to the assholes in this thread and buy something a little more sensible.

 

[Crash]

Yes, I have enough money to pay for the other expenses, what kind of question is that?! You think I'm just gonna buy the car and then completely forget about things like insurance, rego, tires, fuel etc?

You'll be surprised how expensive owning a car actually is. You should take what you think is enough, then multiply it by 3. I think at that point, you'll be a little closer to what it will actually cost.

Wow. Also, when I ask about tire wear and fuel economy etc, its specific to that car. You dont need to know someone's income to tell them whether or not a car has good fuel economy! Just use common sense. Is the 300ZX particularly bad for fuel economy? And then somebody who has owned one can answer that.

You don't even need to own the car to know. There are plenty of websites out there that give gas mileage figures. Sure, take those with a grain of salt, however, it's going to be a lot closer to the truth than someone's subjective "it's good/bad on gas." Also, the 300ZX isn't particularly bad on fuel economy if someone is used to driving large trucks; but I'm sure another person who is used to driving small cars would think it's bad. YOU need to judge whether the fuel mileage is acceptable to you since YOU'LL be paying for the gas.


Listen to the others in this thread. Even 160hp in a light(er) RWD car can get you into plenty of trouble. As others have said, you're free to do as you wish (or as your parents let you), but I would take serious heed to what everyone has adviced.

 

[daan]

Putting a rotary in there is even more laughable due to the fabrication required and the fact you'd be getting less power than a 3T and worse economy.

Yeah, that's funny. I've never heard of anyone wanting to swap in a rotary before.

If you want a rotary, get an RX7/8. At least they're designed for, and can take advantage of, the characteristics of the rotary. 💡

 

[Sureboss]

I'm not sure he has access to his own personal oil well though.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm not sure he has access to his own personal oil well though.

Did you not READ?

You think I'm just gonna buy the car and then completely forget about things like insurance, rego, tires, fuel etc?

 

[hawkeye122]

I've been driving for 10 months, and have gotten into trouble in an 80 hp, 1300 kg car. Since I was in his position before, I can understand the frustration. But now, I find myself reading a lot more into what you lot say. It all makes sense lol.

 

[ampire]

Dude get a 5 speed mid 90's maxima. Seriously it has the following:

1) cheap
2) safe
3) fast (powerful v6, lots of torque... its the VQ30, one of the best v6's made)
4) manual transmission
5) handles really well
6) can carry a lot of stuff
7) easy to work and learn on

 

[the_stig_1]

Dude get a 5 speed mid 90's maxima. Seriously it has the following:

1) cheap
2) safe
3) fast (powerful v6, lots of torque... its the VQ30, one of the best v6's made)
4) manual transmission
5) handles really well
6) can carry a lot of stuff
7) easy to work and learn on

MT Maximas are extremely rare here, 99% of Maximas here are auto.

 

[White & Nerdy]

Wait... naturally aspirated by law?

Where does he live?

 

[homeforsummer]

Wait... naturally aspirated by law?

Where does he live?

Australia. Turbos are off-limits to new drivers for the first year or two.